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  #481  
Old 01-07-17, 08:54 AM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldentornado View Post
thats another team that kicked the snot out OSU three times. twice in the shoe and once in the sugar bowl. and they have won more titles than the fraudulent buckeyes over the past decade, not mention 15 consectutive top 5 finishes. when did the buckeyes ever do that?
Oh so you're not a FSU fan? Hysterical and sad how you won't come out and say who you're a fan of. Btw the way you do know that 1=1, right? 1999 was more than a decade ago.
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  #482  
Old 01-07-17, 08:55 AM
falguin falguin is offline
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These discussions on how many teams should be in are stupid. We all know four teams is not enough. OSU did not belong. They struggled at the end of the year offensively. PSU would have beaten OSU in the Big Ten Championship if given the chance. USC and Oklahoma looked very good at the end of the year. This system is not set up to really find the best team. I would like to see what would happen if Bama had to play a few teams it didn't match up well with. Hopefully, it is Monday night. There needs to be a sixteen team playoff. The smaller conferences should get their chance too. Look at YSU's run. No one though they could get to the NC, but here they are.
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  #483  
Old 01-07-17, 08:55 AM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldentornado View Post
actually it did, but being that your knowledge of college football is limited to OSU , i can see why you didnt know that. i know its hard to believe that there are programs in college football that have actually accomplished more than the your fraudulent buckeyes the past 30 years, but there are.
You think ads is an OSU fan. Good god you're dumb.
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  #484  
Old 01-07-17, 08:58 AM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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Even if we conveniently went back to 1999, both teams have two titles . I'm not sure why that's being brought up anyway. FSU has a great history in football, no one ever denied that. .
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  #485  
Old 01-07-17, 09:01 AM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
It doesn't though. There's a difference from saying "everyone gets a trophy" and the games won't be competitive so they don't deserve a shot.

And in basketball just last year a #15 beat a #2. Few years back Ohio U made a Sweet 16 run as a #14 seed. Dayton went from play-in game to Elite 8 as a double digit seed. So no the point doesn't stand. There's a lot more parity in college basketball.

I'm not advocating for the Group 5 to each get a representative, that scenario above was more for fun than anything. But the best Group of 5 team definitely deserves a chance to compete, even if it's against the #1 seed. Just because a poster believes that doesn't put them in the "everyone wants a trophy crowd."
Blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile. The point definitely stands. 34 teams could be eliminated from the NCAA tourney and you'd get the same end results. We keep expanding these playoffs, be it football or basketball. First is starts with 4. Then 8. Then 16. Then 32. Just like basketball started with 8. Then 16. Then 22. Then 32. 48. 52. 64. 68. And I wouldn't be shocked at all if, when the current TV contract expires, they expand again. It isn't necessarily advocating for 8 teams means you're in the "everyone gets a trophy" group, but that's how this starts.
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  #486  
Old 01-07-17, 09:03 AM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WinstonSmith View Post
Even if we conveniently went back to 1999, both teams have two titles . I'm not sure why that's being brought up anyway. FSU has a great history in football, no one ever denied that. .
Oh god, yeah I can't believe I forgot about 2002. He's just a really, really bad troll. So bad it's gotten to the point where it's funny. Otherwise he'd have come out and said who his team is.
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  #487  
Old 01-07-17, 09:05 AM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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I mean, he used information that is just factually wrong. Not debatable. And used that to say we're not knowledgeable when it comes to college sports and are blinded by our "love for OSU."
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  #488  
Old 01-07-17, 12:07 PM
bob99 bob99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falguin View Post
These discussions on how many teams should be in are stupid. We all know four teams is not enough. OSU did not belong. They struggled at the end of the year offensively. PSU would have beaten OSU in the Big Ten Championship if given the chance. USC and Oklahoma looked very good at the end of the year. This system is not set up to really find the best team. I would like to see what would happen if Bama had to play a few teams it didn't match up well with. Hopefully, it is Monday night. There needs to be a sixteen team playoff. The smaller conferences should get their chance too. Look at YSU's run. No one though they could get to the NC, but here they are.
Ohio State would have beaten Penn State in the championship game. Ohio State beat Wisconsin 30-23 at Wisconsin. They then had to turn around and play Penn State at Penn State. Two of the toughest stadiums to play at back to back weeks. Then you throw in that Penn State had two weeks to prepare for Ohio State. Big advantage. Penn State beat Wisconsin 38-31 on a neutral field. That is more points given up to Wisconsin than Ohio State gave up at Wisconsin home field. Where was Penn State's quality wins after the Ohio State game? They had none. I thought at the end of the regular season that USC was the third best team in the nation. I keep forgetting how bad the defenses are in the Pac. Penn State defense is even worst. My personal feeling at season's end was that Michigan would have beaten Ohio State and Penn State on a neutral field. And I dislike Michigan. I still don't understand all the hype about Penn State. After Michigan and Pittsburgh the schedule fell in place for them to succeed. Who did they have to play that was really that good?
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  #489  
Old 01-07-17, 05:29 PM
falguin falguin is offline
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bob99,

I agree with a lot of the points you made, but PSU would have been able to stop this OSU offense. It just got so bad. I do think OSU got lucky against Michigan. If we played them ten times, UM beats OSU at least six of those times.
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  #490  
Old 01-09-17, 10:44 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldentornado View Post
actually it did, but being that your knowledge of college football is limited to OSU , i can see why you didnt know that. i know its hard to believe that there are programs in college football that have actually accomplished more than the your fraudulent buckeyes the past 30 years, but there are.
I'm not a Buckeye follower. I've mentioned that a several times on this thread alone. I just point out stupid when I see it.
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  #491  
Old 01-09-17, 10:51 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Lahey View Post
Blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile. The point definitely stands. 34 teams could be eliminated from the NCAA tourney and you'd get the same end results. We keep expanding these playoffs, be it football or basketball. First is starts with 4. Then 8. Then 16. Then 32. Just like basketball started with 8. Then 16. Then 22. Then 32. 48. 52. 64. 68. And I wouldn't be shocked at all if, when the current TV contract expires, they expand again. It isn't necessarily advocating for 8 teams means you're in the "everyone gets a trophy" group, but that's how this starts.
Fair enough, though football doesn't have the time to expand to more than 16 without cutting the regular season back down to 10-11 games.
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  #492  
Old 01-10-17, 12:40 AM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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The good news is that Ohio State's defense did better than Alabama's defense...

The offense, not so much.
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  #493  
Old 01-10-17, 12:44 AM
EagleGuy EagleGuy is offline
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And, OSU's defense would likely not given up 31 points if the offense had scored a couple of times. No news here: Good D, bad O.
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  #494  
Old 01-10-17, 01:54 AM
Sykotyk Sykotyk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Lahey View Post
Blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile. The point definitely stands. 34 teams could be eliminated from the NCAA tourney and you'd get the same end results. We keep expanding these playoffs, be it football or basketball. First is starts with 4. Then 8. Then 16. Then 32. Just like basketball started with 8. Then 16. Then 22. Then 32. 48. 52. 64. 68. And I wouldn't be shocked at all if, when the current TV contract expires, they expand again. It isn't necessarily advocating for 8 teams means you're in the "everyone gets a trophy" group, but that's how this starts.
The NCAA 'march madness' was started at a time when the NIT was seen as a much more prestigious tournament. It also was a time, 1939 when travel wasn't exactly efficient and we were still in a the throes of a depression and on the verge of war.

It's also disingenuous to talk about number of teams in the basketball tournament compared to the CFP when there's FAR fewer teams eligible for the CFP (even if you count all FBS schools) than there are eligible for the Division I basketball tournament.

There's 125 FCS schools and 128 FBS schools. Meanwhile, Division I basketball has 351 schools. 68 slots for 351 schools is 19.3% of schools qualifying for the championship tournament.

Meanwhile, there's 65 "Power 5" schools, so 19.3% of that would be 12.3 schools qualifying. For FBS, would be 24.7 schools.

Right now, this year, there were people talking about 'how great' Big Ten football was and that they might deserve 2 of 4 spots in the CFP, and yet Ohio State got shutout by Clemson, Penn State (the league champion) lost to USC in the Rose Bowl, and the other name bandied about lost in some meaningless bowl in Florida.

And this was the Bowl that at the start of Bowl season was seen as 'da Best derrr'. The problem is that college football has a 12 game season and 128 FBS members or at least 65 Power 5 members. And the only games generally played are the 8-9 league games, a few FCS or Group of 5 opponents and usually one Power 5 team that may or may not be good as the schedules are set years and years in advance.

And yet, we're certain out of just the 5 conference champions, we can determine the 'best four' teams, and it's clear that idea if a fallacy. No matter how bad you may think a conference champion may be, there deserve a shot at the national title as they've surpassed the first measure possible. Climbing to the top of the mountain among their league members. We don't know with any specific clarity whether who is better and based on polls and ranking get it wrong at a staggering rate. We also fail to comprehend what rankings mean and why we punish lower ranked teams when they play and lose to a team we already assumed they'd lose to.


If #5 loses to #2, we, for decades, have punished #5 for losing a game we already assumed they wouldn't win. But, if #5 plays #7 and WINS, we reward them, but they won a game we expected them to win based purely on their ranking.

CFP may try to 'right this wrong', they still are in a position to 'qualify' the bias already inherent in the system. If Western Michigan had the same 'resume' Ohio State did and Ohio State had the same resume Western Michigan did, WMU wouldn't be in the national title. It's simply a reality of the system. And the 'power teams' in the 'power 5' are perfectly happy keeping up the charade.


That's why, bare minimum, you need the five Power 5 champions to qualify on their own. And if people want to fuss about OSU/PSU, then the league needs to determine a better way to crown their champion.

An 8-team tournament would work best. Five Power 5 champions, one Group of 5 champion, and two at-large teams from all the remaining teams. It satisfies every complaint about the system. All Power 5 champions get in, a Group of 5 gets a shot at it, and you get two at-large to placate the crowd screaming for the likes of Ohio State to avoid missing out.

The problem is the bowls. They insist on being a part of it. And as you can see by following ticket prices, fans are getting stingy with their money. The semifinals aren't likely to draw much demand unless it's in a team's backyard, since fans with enough money to attend a game are holding out for the national title. The neutral site aspect is a problem.

They argue they can't host at school venues, but it can be done. Leave bowls for teams that don't qualify and for teams that drop out of the playoffs early enough to schedule for the bigger bowl games.

But, as long as college football tries to play fans as dumb, tickets for these bowls and even the semifinals, and even the television viewership for the semifinals, will stagnate.
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  #495  
Old 01-10-17, 02:46 AM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sykotyk View Post
The NCAA 'march madness' was started at a time when the NIT was seen as a much more prestigious tournament. It also was a time, 1939 when travel wasn't exactly efficient and we were still in a the throes of a depression and on the verge of war.

It's also disingenuous to talk about number of teams in the basketball tournament compared to the CFP when there's FAR fewer teams eligible for the CFP (even if you count all FBS schools) than there are eligible for the Division I basketball tournament.

There's 125 FCS schools and 128 FBS schools. Meanwhile, Division I basketball has 351 schools. 68 slots for 351 schools is 19.3% of schools qualifying for the championship tournament.

Meanwhile, there's 65 "Power 5" schools, so 19.3% of that would be 12.3 schools qualifying. For FBS, would be 24.7 schools.

Right now, this year, there were people talking about 'how great' Big Ten football was and that they might deserve 2 of 4 spots in the CFP, and yet Ohio State got shutout by Clemson, Penn State (the league champion) lost to USC in the Rose Bowl, and the other name bandied about lost in some meaningless bowl in Florida.

And this was the Bowl that at the start of Bowl season was seen as 'da Best derrr'. The problem is that college football has a 12 game season and 128 FBS members or at least 65 Power 5 members. And the only games generally played are the 8-9 league games, a few FCS or Group of 5 opponents and usually one Power 5 team that may or may not be good as the schedules are set years and years in advance.

And yet, we're certain out of just the 5 conference champions, we can determine the 'best four' teams, and it's clear that idea if a fallacy. No matter how bad you may think a conference champion may be, there deserve a shot at the national title as they've surpassed the first measure possible. Climbing to the top of the mountain among their league members. We don't know with any specific clarity whether who is better and based on polls and ranking get it wrong at a staggering rate. We also fail to comprehend what rankings mean and why we punish lower ranked teams when they play and lose to a team we already assumed they'd lose to.


If #5 loses to #2, we, for decades, have punished #5 for losing a game we already assumed they wouldn't win. But, if #5 plays #7 and WINS, we reward them, but they won a game we expected them to win based purely on their ranking.

CFP may try to 'right this wrong', they still are in a position to 'qualify' the bias already inherent in the system. If Western Michigan had the same 'resume' Ohio State did and Ohio State had the same resume Western Michigan did, WMU wouldn't be in the national title. It's simply a reality of the system. And the 'power teams' in the 'power 5' are perfectly happy keeping up the charade.


That's why, bare minimum, you need the five Power 5 champions to qualify on their own. And if people want to fuss about OSU/PSU, then the league needs to determine a better way to crown their champion.

An 8-team tournament would work best. Five Power 5 champions, one Group of 5 champion, and two at-large teams from all the remaining teams. It satisfies every complaint about the system. All Power 5 champions get in, a Group of 5 gets a shot at it, and you get two at-large to placate the crowd screaming for the likes of Ohio State to avoid missing out.

The problem is the bowls. They insist on being a part of it. And as you can see by following ticket prices, fans are getting stingy with their money. The semifinals aren't likely to draw much demand unless it's in a team's backyard, since fans with enough money to attend a game are holding out for the national title. The neutral site aspect is a problem.

They argue they can't host at school venues, but it can be done. Leave bowls for teams that don't qualify and for teams that drop out of the playoffs early enough to schedule for the bigger bowl games.

But, as long as college football tries to play fans as dumb, tickets for these bowls and even the semifinals, and even the television viewership for the semifinals, will stagnate.
Agree with everything except the playoff format. 8 with auto-bids is not enough. It would have to be 12 minimum.
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  #496  
Old 01-10-17, 03:38 AM
Sykotyk Sykotyk is offline
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Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
Agree with everything except the playoff format. 8 with auto-bids is not enough. It would have to be 12 minimum.
11 champions and 1 at-large? Or, what's your plan?
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  #497  
Old 01-10-17, 07:16 AM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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Way tltr, especially since Crusaders said "agree with everything."
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  #498  
Old 01-10-17, 08:15 AM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Originally Posted by WinstonSmith View Post
Way tltr, especially since Crusaders said "agree with everything."
My thoughts exactly.
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  #499  
Old 01-10-17, 11:06 AM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sykotyk View Post
11 champions and 1 at-large? Or, what's your plan?
8 decided by BCS ranking system or 12 with P5 auto-bids + top ranked G5 team + 6 at-large

Last edited by Crusaders; 01-10-17 at 11:26 AM..
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  #500  
Old 01-11-17, 02:05 PM
bob99 bob99 is offline
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I don't know if it has been discussed but how much did the loss of Jordan on the O-line impact this game? Prince seemed to struggle at right tackle most of the season and then lose your starting right guard early in the game really put Ohio State in a tough position. Ohio State obviously had no depth on the O-line. They even tried to put Jordan back in the game but it was a no go. Maybe they could cover for one lineman but two was out of the question. I think it is very telling when two of the early transfers are O-lineman. Shows how weak the depth chart was at that position. I wonder how bad the overall timing was thrown off and how much it might have changed the play calling.
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