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  #31  
Old 01-08-17, 05:16 PM
1_beast 1_beast is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cruiser_96 View Post
As long as we're complaining...

Clean up after yourself! I shouldn't walk into a cafeteria and see what I see. Not when it is WRESTLERS who are in there. I should not walk into a restroom and be shocked at the sight. Not when it's WRESTLERS who are utilizing the restrooms. And for the love of all things sacred, take your trash from the bleachers yourself! I should NOT have to carry HANDFULS of someone else's trash to the receptacle just so I can sit in the bleachers. Not when it is a WRESTLING EVENT that's going on.

Figure it out!

Yessir!
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  #32  
Old 01-08-17, 05:48 PM
Whizzer King Whizzer King is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtony View Post
The Madison wrestler did not slam, pick up or drive the Fremont wrestler to the mat. Both wrestlers were standing with the Madison wrestler behind and in control. He had the right arm of the Fremont wrestler trapped and tripped him to take him down. Both fell to their right but because the Fremont wrestlers armed was trapped, he couldn't put it out to catch himself. He land on his on his head and his neck took the brunt of the fall. It was a serious injury.
Sounds like the Madison wrestler deliberately took the Fremont wrestler to the mat where he could not defend himself. This has been a manuever that was a point of emphasis this year and probably should have been called potentially dangerous as soon as the wrestlers were moving forward on their feet. This has been a rule in HS wrestling that has never been interpreted correctly; still isn't.

The fact that he (Ross wrestler) couldn't put his arm out to defend himself is the exact reason why this manuever has been deemed potentially dangerous... simply b/c it is. I am assuming that the official viewed this an attempt by the Madison wrestler to cause injury to the Ross kid. This is my guess, but seems viable
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  #33  
Old 01-08-17, 06:28 PM
MPhillips MPhillips is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cruiser_96 View Post
As long as we're complaining...


Figure it out!
There ya go!
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  #34  
Old 01-08-17, 06:30 PM
bothsports bothsports is offline
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I was also there and saw the whole thing. My no means am I condoning the behavior of the brother or the Madison wrestler flexing when they announced his runner up award, but I saw the actual incident a little different than what is being described...

It was late in the match and Madison was up 4-2. The Fremont wrestler was in the down position and got to his feet. From where I was at, it looked like he was attempting a standing granby and the Madison kid just followed him to the mat. Yes, the Fremont wrestler hit his head awkwardly and it was serious, but I do not think it was the actions of the Madison that caused the injury. The Fremont wrester was in desperation mode and was trying anything to escape or get get a reversal to tie it up. It wasn't even ruled a slam right away. The refs got together and talked about it before awarding a point to the Fremont wrestler.

The after match antics were embarrassingly bad. However, I do not believe the actual wrestling maneuver that led the injury was at all malicious. It was a high level match with high level kids and it was unfortunate one of the boys was injured. I hope the Fremont wrestler is ok and wish him a speedy recovery
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  #35  
Old 01-08-17, 06:53 PM
nkawtg135 nkawtg135 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by szerszen View Post
Kids act how you let them act.

If you want a team full of respectful wrestlers- that's on the coach and administration.
Agree 100%. Shame on the Madison coach for this.
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  #36  
Old 01-08-17, 07:01 PM
pinem07 pinem07 is offline
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Irishtony and bothsports- I was also there and agree with your perspectives. I do not believe that the return to the mat was illegal. I am unsure whether the Freemont wrestler was trying a granby or not but the return was not malicious in anyway. It was very unfortunate what happened. I talked to an official that was not there and he wasn't sure if you can lose a match on unnecessary roughness. You can for illegal slam/unsportsmanlike conduct.

The antics by the brother don't reflect the wrestler or coach or Madison in anyway. I know both of them and neither would condone those actions. The action of flexing was not appropriate and should be dealt with.

I hope that the Freemont wrestler recovers fully and is back for at least the post season. A very talented wrestler and good kid from what I have observed.
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  #37  
Old 01-08-17, 07:04 PM
wjcav85 wjcav85 is offline
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Its is simple - was the arm trapped or not? Take opinion away - if it was trapped it was illegal, period

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinem07 View Post
Irishtony and bothsports- I was also there and agree with your perspectives. I do not believe that the return to the mat was illegal. I am unsure whether the Freemont wrestler was trying a granby or not but the return was not malicious in anyway. It was very unfortunate what happened. I talked to an official that was not there and he wasn't sure if you can lose a match on unnecessary roughness. You can for illegal slam/unsportsmanlike conduct.

The antics by the brother don't reflect the wrestler or coach or Madison in anyway. I know both of them and neither would condone those actions. The action of flexing was not appropriate and should be dealt with.

I hope that the Freemont wrestler recovers fully and is back for at least the post season. A very talented wrestler and good kid from what I have observed.
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  #38  
Old 01-08-17, 07:19 PM
elliotlewis elliotlewis is offline
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Arm bar/tight waist
Page 18 7-2-2
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  #39  
Old 01-08-17, 07:41 PM
pinem07 pinem07 is offline
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It was trapped. For sure. In the illustration, it describes the situation should be stopped if the referee feels that there is potential injury. Says nothing of it being illegal.
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  #40  
Old 01-08-17, 07:43 PM
youngmanmom youngmanmom is offline
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"Illegal slam"...I hate that phrase. All slams are illegal. Some slams are ill-intended, others are on accident.
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  #41  
Old 01-08-17, 11:51 PM
staller92 staller92 is offline
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http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/...rman/96308172/
Decide for yourself. IMO it happened too quick for the refs to stop it. It was definitely unfortunate, not sure if it was illegal or not. I sincerely hope Chapman from Fremont Ross is ok.
As for the kid flexing his muscles. Not a good move given the moment but let's not forget this was a high school kid minutes away from a heated match. For all of you bashing him I say he without sin cast the first stone.
The brother was a disgrace. But from what I saw he acted alone. I was on the gym floor and literally heard his dad yell at him and say "get the hell out of here and don't disrespect this program". I also heard Madison coaches make it clear he was not part of their program and they wanted him out of the facility.
I have known the head coach of Madison for over 25 years(as a wrestler and now as a coach) and he is a good man. My kid has also been fortunate enough to work with Madison assistants through USA wrestling. From all my experiences they are good people. To bash them because of this unfortunate situation in my opinion is BS.
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  #42  
Old 01-09-17, 06:43 AM
Whizzer King Whizzer King is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by staller92 View Post
http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/...rman/96308172/
Decide for yourself. IMO it happened too quick for the refs to stop it. It was definitely unfortunate, not sure if it was illegal or not. I sincerely hope Chapman from Fremont Ross is ok.
As for the kid flexing his muscles. Not a good move given the moment but let's not forget this was a high school kid minutes away from a heated match. For all of you bashing him I say he without sin cast the first stone.
The brother was a disgrace. But from what I saw he acted alone. I was on the gym floor and literally heard his dad yell at him and say "get the hell out of here and don't disrespect this program". I also heard Madison coaches make it clear he was not part of their program and they wanted him out of the facility.
I have known the head coach of Madison for over 25 years(as a wrestler and now as a coach) and he is a good man. My kid has also been fortunate enough to work with Madison assistants through USA wrestling. From all my experiences they are good people. To bash them because of this unfortunate situation in my opinion is BS.
Definately happened too quick for the official to stop for potentially dangerous. There is no doubt, however, that the Madison wrestler took the Fremont wrestler where he couldn't defend himself (trapped arm). It is evident that the officials felt that it was malicious enough to award it as an illegal maneuver.

This type of mat return is dangerous and needs to deemed as such.

Last edited by Whizzer King; 01-09-17 at 11:52 AM.
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  #43  
Old 01-09-17, 06:51 AM
Whizzer King Whizzer King is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinem07 View Post
It was trapped. For sure. In the illustration, it describes the situation should be stopped if the referee feels that there is potential injury. Says nothing of it being illegal.
It is widely accepted that you are not allowed to do this. Illegal or not, it is not an approved wrestling manuever. If an official feels that there was an attampt to injure the opponent, it is illegal. I don't think that was the intent of the Madison kid.

Last edited by Whizzer King; 01-09-17 at 11:53 AM.
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  #44  
Old 01-09-17, 11:28 AM
Possessed Possessed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngmanmom View Post
"Illegal slam"...I hate that phrase. All slams are illegal. Some slams are ill-intended, others are on accident.
The most sensable post on here.
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  #45  
Old 01-09-17, 11:57 AM
spladle89 spladle89 is offline
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Kevin Cleveland Tournament

Any one witness the lack of sportsmanship demonstrated at this tournament? I find it sad that a tournament named for such a fine young man had such poor sportsmanship, mainly by one coach. Then wrestlers from the same team reflect the same type of behavior. Our wrestlers will certainly reflect what we teach them and how we act. I understand competitiveness and disagreeing with calls. But, there is a difference between those and acting like a 2 year old.
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  #46  
Old 01-09-17, 12:04 PM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinem07 View Post
I talked to an official that was not there and he wasn't sure if you can lose a match on unnecessary roughness. You can for illegal slam/unsportsmanlike conduct.
I have no idea who you might have talked to but a match can certainly be lost on that call. If the offended wrestler uses his/her two minutes of recovery time and can not continue they win. No different than for any illegal/unnecessary act.
BTW, what is a "legal slam"?
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  #47  
Old 01-09-17, 12:26 PM
MUCraider06 MUCraider06 is offline
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I was also at the tournament as a coach. I felt it was out of line with the way he acted. Act like you have been there first of all, second you lost the match. Third show that you care that the other wrestler is doing ok .
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  #48  
Old 01-09-17, 01:11 PM
UsedToBe103 UsedToBe103 is offline
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The best way I have heard it described is that, because wrestling is such an intense, emotional sport, it brings out the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. There are many good people in this sport, but unfortunately there are some that paint a bad picture to outsiders.
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  #49  
Old 01-09-17, 01:29 PM
MUCraider06 MUCraider06 is offline
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Usedtobe103

I would agree, but you can show sportsmanship and then go be mad and whatever in your own space. It is called self control
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  #50  
Old 01-09-17, 01:58 PM
Bitterrunner-up Bitterrunner-up is offline
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Come on guys, this stuff has been around for decades. While I agree that wrestling teaches valuable and virtuous life lessons like discipline, work ethic and self reliance, it also has always attracted some individuals with questionable character. If we're honest, most teams had a nice blend of good character kids, "little man syndrome", "likes to fight guy" on it.

I can remember a fight breaking out at the Brunzwick Invitational back in like '87...bodies coming out of the stands, the fight spilling on to the mat during the finals. In fact, it was almost the exact same situation as is being described here...and that was 30 years ago.

As students and fans of the sport should we strive for better? Yes. Should we expect better? Yes. Is this just a sign of our deteriorating society? No. it doesn't happen often, but it's not like it's a new occurrence.

I want to be clear, I'm not condoning the behavior. wrestlers, coaches and maybe family members should be held accountable. I'm just saying it's not like this is a new thing..."kids these days" kind of stuff.
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  #51  
Old 01-09-17, 02:52 PM
Possessed Possessed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitterrunner-up View Post
Come on guys, this stuff has been around for decades. While I agree that wrestling teaches valuable and virtuous life lessons like discipline, work ethic and self reliance, it also has always attracted some individuals with questionable character. If we're honest, most teams had a nice blend of good character kids, "little man syndrome", "likes to fight guy" on it.

I can remember a fight breaking out at the Brunzwick Invitational back in like '87...bodies coming out of the stands, the fight spilling on to the mat during the finals. In fact, it was almost the exact same situation as is being described here...and that was 30 years ago.

As students and fans of the sport should we strive for better? Yes. Should we expect better? Yes. Is this just a sign of our deteriorating society? No. it doesn't happen often, but it's not like it's a new occurrence.

I want to be clear, I'm not condoning the behavior. wrestlers, coaches and maybe family members should be held accountable. I'm just saying it's not like this is a new thing..."kids these days" kind of stuff.
Exactly. This kind of trashy behavior is no different than people trash talking, bringing up personal things onto a board to bash somebody. There's always going to be classless idiots out there. Sometimes they bleed over into "decency" circles.
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  #52  
Old 01-09-17, 04:04 PM
Splay Tell Splay Tell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Possessed View Post
Exactly. This kind of trashy behavior is no different than people trash talking, bringing up personal things onto a board to bash somebody. There's always going to be classless idiots out there. Sometimes they bleed over into "decency" circles.
Really? C'mon Slide, you are the king of theis! You went after Danimal and Boro last year with personal crossfire on thise here message board.
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  #53  
Old 01-09-17, 04:13 PM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Possessed View Post
Exactly. This kind of trashy behavior is no different than people trash talking, bringing up personal things onto a board to bash somebody.
*different from

#grammarishard

Put down the barbell and pick up a Harbrace Handbook
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  #54  
Old 01-09-17, 04:49 PM
Possessed Possessed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splay Tell View Post
Really? C'mon Slide, you are the king of theis! You went after Danimal and Boro last year with personal crossfire on thise here message board.
Not really sure what you're talking about here.

PS... Boro is gonna correct your spelling.
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  #55  
Old 01-09-17, 05:12 PM
innoshape innoshape is offline
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Ok. Now shake hands since this is the "Sportsmanship" thread?
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  #56  
Old 01-09-17, 06:44 PM
AubreyH AubreyH is offline
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I watched another video, similar to this. New Jersey wrestler Devon Starks showed great sportsmanship in giving his 1st place medal to Michael Arechavala. Michael has Down Syndrome. The two wrestled earlier in the tournament with Starks allowing Michael to take him down a number of times. Great stuff.
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  #57  
Old 01-09-17, 07:05 PM
Splay Tell Splay Tell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Possessed View Post
Not really sure what you're talking about here.

PS... Boro is gonna correct your spelling.
I think I'm talking about this kind of crap you just posted on the CIT thread Slide!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Possessed View Post
Wanna have lunch again? I could walk you to your car again. Oh, wait. You seemed hesitant to go outside.

Anyway, not sure why you think or read into that where I hate Elder or that Elder was favored to win it? Drama queen. Must run in the family lol. Any who... Boro picked Lake Catholic to win it, genius. Oh.. one more thing... the next time all your coaches take you guys to the strip joint I better be invited!!!!
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  #58  
Old 01-09-17, 08:30 PM
Big Ragu Big Ragu is offline
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Originally Posted by Splay Tell View Post
I think I'm talking about this kind of crap you just posted on the CIT thread Slide!
Don't feed the troll.
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  #59  
Old 01-11-17, 12:29 PM
UsedToBe103 UsedToBe103 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MUCraider06 View Post
Usedtobe103

I would agree, but you can show sportsmanship and then go be mad and whatever in your own space. It is called self control

I wasn't condoning that sort of behavior, just pointing out why it might happen more in this sport than other sports...
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  #60  
Old 01-11-17, 01:01 PM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Looking at the video, I don't think the correct call was made. It was a wrestling incident to me.

There was no time to call PD, that is for sure. I watched it a couple times, and I'm not sure he meets criteria for PD. It looks to me that the top wrestler had a tight waist and was on the elbow with his other arm.

I could be wrong, but I thought the criteria for a trapped arm was a body lock with 1 or 2 arms encircled or a 2-on-1 in Ohio.

I know he didn't have the front view, but the assistant official made the motion for injury time, not recovery time. He initially didn't think of a penalty call either. Could have easily changed his mind, but the head official never gave an initial signal either.
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