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  #1  
Old 01-23-18, 07:49 AM
Quasimodo Quasimodo is offline
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Berlin Center and competitive balance.

I find it ironic that the competitive balance number for Berlin Center was 28, which was the 4th highest in division 6 or 7. It moved them from Division 7 to division 6. Here is an article quoting head coach Andy Hake in 2014 on th topic.

By Kevin Connelly

kconnelly@vindy.com

Change is coming to high school athletics across the state.

After three years of failed attempts and many trips back to the drawing board, the Ohio High School Athletic Association was finally able to announce the approval of a competitive balance referendum Friday afternoon.

In an attempt to account for open enrollment schools competing in different divisions, a multiplier formula will be applied to adjust enrollment numbers for students who don’t live or didn’t grow up in the school district they’re attending.

The new modifying factors will be applied on a sport-by-sport basis and the plan is expected to go into effect at the start of the 2016-17 school year.

What many are wondering now is whether the planned changes create more problems than they solve.

Western Reserve football coach Andy Hake certainly believes so.

“This is not correcting a problem,” Hake said. “The problem is these private school institutions, they put their veil of whatever it is — Christianity or whatever it may be — over the face of the public to justify their schools.

“‘Hey come here; come get this catholic disciplined education’, or whatever it is. This is not a knock on the religion, it’s on the institution, and it’s terrible. It’s lies! ... You mean to tell me all those kids in Youngstown’s north and east side that are going to Ursuline, that that’s their kind of clientele?

“That’s a joke.”

Western Reserve plays in Division VII for football. It’s a public school that has open enrollment, leaving the door open for Hake’s Blue Devils to be moved up a division for any kids on his roster that don’t live in Berlin Center.

“For [the OHSAA] to even say that [Western Reserve and Cardinal Mooney] is the same kind of open enrollment, you’re forcing people to think about, ‘Well maybe I ought to go after kids like they do,’” Hake said. “[Private schools] recruit. Let’s just cut to the chase. Let’s just cut all the [crap]. They recruit. I taught in the city of Youngstown, they absolutely recruit.

“And you know what, it’s a shame they can’t act like men about it and just call it what it is. But they’re cowards. I think it’s cowardly,” Hake said. “And this is like an attempt to try and justify the competitive balance. What kind of [crap] is that?”

Cardinal Mooney plays in Division IV for football. It’s a private catholic school. P.J. Fecko has been leading the Cardinal football program for 14 years and has won four state titles.

Much like his coaching style, he’s taken a much more calm approach to the changes.

“I haven’t read any of it. I don’t even know exactly how it changes things, but it doesn’t matter,” Fecko said. “I’m not anticipating any effects or changes for us, that’s for sure.”

Fecko said the changes will affect open enrollment public schools more than the privates. He noted the number of local public schools that have gone to open enrollment over the last few years and how many out-of-district kids they now have that could have an impact.

“It’s like anything else, when you put together something like this with so many parties involved,” Fecko said. “When the dust settles, there will still be a group of people that it affects in a negative way and they’re probably going to be pretty unhappy about this.”

The modifying factors will be applied as such: If a student has not been continuously enrolled in the district — or a designated “feeder” school(s) for non-public schools — since seventh grade, that student will count more toward the school’s enrollment figures and could cause that school to move up a division.

The modifying factor will depend on the sport the student participates in: two for football, five for volleyball, basketball, baseball and softball, and six for soccer. They vary because of the different number of tournament divisions there are for each sport.

Hake has a laundry list of reasons why he doesn’t agree with the changes, but instead he has a different solution. And it’s not one that appears on the horizon any time soon.

“Mr. Ross got it all wrong,” Hake said. “I call for separation until they fix it. I call for absolute separation, because this has been going on for 60 years and that’s the formula that they come up with? Just separate.”
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  #2  
Old 01-23-18, 08:13 AM
StarstoShine StarstoShine is offline
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Separate vs compete ?
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  #3  
Old 01-23-18, 08:24 AM
Jake22 Jake22 is offline
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Taking donations for tissues. Sound like coach from Berlin Center needs them.
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Old 01-23-18, 08:35 AM
the123kidz the123kidz is offline
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Coach Hake sounds like a fairly miserable person, maybe coaching football isn't really for him.
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Old 01-23-18, 09:09 AM
gatorade_1 gatorade_1 is offline
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Coach Hake is also the same coach who will be up on a team by 40 forty points and will continually kick onside kicks, not punt on 4th down, or if they have a couple timeouts left at the end of the game he will use them to try and score more points just to run the score up. I think maybe he should put more focus on how to beat Mogadore in the playoffs who is a public school.
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  #6  
Old 01-23-18, 09:22 AM
Spread All Day Spread All Day is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the123kidz View Post
Coach Hake sounds like a fairly miserable person, maybe coaching football isn't really for him.
He’s a very successful coach.
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  #7  
Old 01-23-18, 09:24 AM
Football 101 Football 101 is offline
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my first question is - gee this guy feels pretty strong to represent his opinions as he does...

does he have a long list of getting bounced by "privates"????

Being in NEO and D6-7 I couldn't think of many "privates" that are beasting at that level other than JFK???

in 2013 beat St Paul couple rounds deep

in 2014 lost to St Paul couple rounds deep
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  #8  
Old 01-23-18, 09:30 AM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spread All Day View Post
He’s a very successful coach.
He can be a successful coach and still be a miserable person.
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  #9  
Old 01-23-18, 09:31 AM
guyinahoodie guyinahoodie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Football 101 View Post
my first question is - gee this guy feels pretty strong to represent his opinions as he does...

does he have a long list of getting bounced by "privates"????

Being in NEO and D6-7 I couldn't think of many "privates" that are beasting at that level other than JFK???

in 2013 beat St Paul couple rounds deep

in 2014 lost to St Paul couple rounds deep
From what I understand, he's known for being a pretty outspoken guy, and he's had a good bit of success at Western Reserve.
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  #10  
Old 01-23-18, 09:44 AM
Spread All Day Spread All Day is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish60 View Post
He can be a successful coach and still be a miserable person.
Eh we don’t know that. All speculation.

He did teach at YCS. which means he has seen his share of this going on. Firsthand knowledge. No secret.
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  #11  
Old 01-23-18, 10:04 AM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spread All Day View Post
Eh we don’t know that. All speculation.

He did teach at YCS. which means he has seen his share of this going on. Firsthand knowledge. No secret.
Don't know anything about the man. I really hadn't heard much about him until I opened this thread. And I certainly am not going to base my opinion of a man upon the musings on an internet chat board! My guess is he is either "passionate" or "obnoxious" based upon whether you agree with him!
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Old 01-23-18, 10:15 AM
guyinahoodie guyinahoodie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish60 View Post
Don't know anything about the man. I really hadn't heard much about him until I opened this thread. And I certainly am not going to base my opinion of a man upon the musings on an internet chat board! My guess is he is either "passionate" or "obnoxious" based upon whether you agree with him!
Or both?
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  #13  
Old 01-23-18, 10:18 AM
Termite2 Termite2 is offline
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“The problem is these private school institutions, they put their veil of whatever it is — Christianity or whatever it may be — over the face of the public to justify their schools."

If I know nothing else about the person, that quote is an indication of him being a bigot.
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  #14  
Old 01-23-18, 10:35 AM
Jaws31 Jaws31 is offline
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Hake is what exactly what he seems like from this article, a blowhard . He will cry about the privates then do exactly what he claims they do. A couple of posters in this thread have said some things about him that are 100% correct.
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Old 01-23-18, 01:10 PM
therock02 therock02 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaws31 View Post
Hake is what exactly what he seems like from this article, a blowhard . He will cry about the privates then do exactly what he claims they do. A couple of posters in this thread have said some things about him that are 100% correct.
I agree. He has been successful but seems like a hypocrite...Good luck in that Div 6 region...he better get some more kids from the surrounding areas
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  #16  
Old 01-23-18, 02:04 PM
Spread All Day Spread All Day is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Termite2 View Post
“The problem is these private school institutions, they put their veil of whatever it is — Christianity or whatever it may be — over the face of the public to justify their schools."

If I know nothing else about the person, that quote is an indication of him being a bigot.
How????

He is saying most parochials on the outside act like they are but in reality they aren’t
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  #17  
Old 01-23-18, 02:14 PM
Journey Journey is offline
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This guys sounds like my kind of coach!
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  #18  
Old 01-23-18, 02:33 PM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is online now
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Well everyone talks about letting the members decide, so when was the last referendum vote on separate playoffs, and what were the results? Anyone?

This guy is not very pc but I think the majority agrees. Or very close.
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  #19  
Old 01-23-18, 03:29 PM
serpico serpico is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
Well everyone talks about letting the members decide, so when was the last referendum vote on separate playoffs, and what were the results? Anyone?
I pulled these numbers from some research I did six years ago on this subject:

1978: voted down 84% to 16%
1993: voted down 67% to 33%

If these are wrong or anyone has better numbers I will sit corrected.
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Old 01-23-18, 03:46 PM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is online now
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Thanks serp. I honestly did not know but suspected as much. From what I recall it has been brought up or petitioned for a vote more recently (line 2012 or so), but got squashed. Hmmm, I wonder how that is???
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Old 01-23-18, 04:42 PM
serpico serpico is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
Thanks serp. I honestly did not know but suspected as much. From what I recall it has been brought up or petitioned for a vote more recently (line 2012 or so), but got squashed. Hmmm, I wonder how that is???
The first three of Competitive Balance proposals were voted down in 2011 (332-303), 2012 (339-301), and 2013 (327-308). A vote for separation was slated for 2014 but it was scuttled when the current CB was put through.

Lots of good info here: http://highschoolsports.cleveland.co...oposal-passes/
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Old 01-23-18, 04:44 PM
CoventryTrackXCguy CoventryTrackXCguy is offline
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I mean, with regards to him saying that competitive balance hurts public schools just as well...hes not wrong. That was the basis for my opposition to competitive balance, is that I felt it needlessly hurts my own Comets, 40% of whom is open enrolled. But I mean, we could make that point without all the anti-Catholic bigotry. I myself may be a product of a public school education, but I am a devout Catholic myself. I just personally didn't need to find my faith in a textbook. But given the state of far too many public schools in this country, fortunately not my own Coventry, it is certainly understandable that many parents would seek to give there children an education in a place that is not at least an anti-Christian environment. That's not to say recruiting for athletic success doesn't happen, as it most certainly does. But it is unfair to use that to attack the faith that is surely the reason majority of students who are not super athletic by the way, are sent to these private schools. If people do not like the fact that many people in their own respective districts choose to send their kids to a private school, they should think about why that is, because I guarantee you for at least 90% of private school students, the reason is not sports.
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Old 01-23-18, 05:12 PM
Spread All Day Spread All Day is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ringer2 View Post
And the reason is that the kids don’t look like the “clientele” he expects them to have? That’s doubly bigoted. You know what he is implying, right. That African-American kids really don’t belong at a catholic school.

“We don’t educate them because THEY are Catholic. We educate them because WE are Catholic.”
Not saying they don’t belong. Saying (something true) there aren’t many black Catholics in Ytown. Unless you live here, you don’t know.


and that is the biggest line of bull in the world.
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Old 01-23-18, 05:32 PM
Jaws31 Jaws31 is offline
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Spread you basically are saying they don't belong. I would caution against going down that road. Hake is an outright bigot. Anyone who knows him knows this. I wouldn't agree with him on this topic because that was and is his point.
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Old 01-23-18, 05:46 PM
Journey Journey is offline
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Such a thing was never petitioned for, let alone squashed. You’re just flat out wrong.
Yes it was, right before cbp4 passed
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Old 01-23-18, 05:54 PM
GregG GregG is offline
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We at Massillon recruit only the best white atheists from section 8
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Old 01-23-18, 05:57 PM
GregG GregG is offline
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After a few games at Hoban Danny Clark told me that the team Chaplin wasn’t as religious as Massillons....true story
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Old 01-23-18, 07:01 PM
serpico serpico is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ringer2 View Post
No it’s wasn’t. The Wayne County contingent never submitted the petition because the competitive balance proposal replaced it.
So this quote:
Quote:
Dave Rice, Superintendent of Triway Schools in Wayne County, agreed today to pull the separate playoff referendum that was a the result of a petition he submitted to the Ohio High School Athletic Association in November.
From this article: http://www.cleveland.com/hssports/bl...separatio.html

was inaccurate?
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Old 01-23-18, 07:35 PM
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EagleFan EagleFan is offline
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silly semantics. Separation did not go to vote, and instead a CBP went to vote. You were accurate
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Old 01-23-18, 07:44 PM
sapientia et veritas sapientia et veritas is offline
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It's been 4 years since he said all that. I'm assuming that he's grown up since then.
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