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  #61  
Old 02-03-17, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
I am not Possessed, but the answer to your question does not involve concussions.
Recovery from injuries, including concussions and repeated head blows, certainly factor big in the answer actually.
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  #62  
Old 02-03-17, 10:23 AM
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Thanks EP!!!!!
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  #63  
Old 02-03-17, 10:25 AM
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This may be one of the most worthless, time wasting issues in youth sports. And it really just shows how much adults can screw up a good thing.

Now I really don't care if there is youth football, I'm not sure it really makes anyone a better high school player than someone that does not play, just because of the physical development of boys from age 12-18.

The decline in participate is because of two reasons not related to injuries. One is there is alot of other sports to play today. Kids that play sports can play one sport all year around now (not advisable by me), or they have 4-5 sports they can play at any given time depending on the climate they live in. The other reason is because we have adults who've decided to "organize" every facet of our lives, making coaches get certificates of everything from first aid, to concussion safety to background checks. The downside of this is the cost of participating in youth sports has spiked to an all time high. Many people simply can't afford to have their kids in all the activities we grew up with.

I coached youth football 15 years ago, we didn't have kickoffs. Here's the thing no one says. Youth football has to be the safest form of football out there because the speed of the players is so slow. There are rarely if ever any high speed collisions in youth football. Even to the high school level, I think all we see is the proliferation of these concussions of former NFL players, which is apples and oranges to this subject. As noted earlier on this board, I'd guess you have more concussions pro rata in soccer than in youth football. Even as physical as basketball is getting, the numbers of youth head injuries in basketball is probably at a high level as well.

Bottom line, organizations like USA Football, Little League Baseball and the like, are huge, nationwide organizations that INCREASE the cost of kids playing sports.
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  #64  
Old 02-03-17, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Recovery from injuries, including concussions and repeated head blows, certainly factor big in the answer actually.
Recovery from injuries, including bumps and bruises but not concussions may be the primary reason, but you seldom recover from concussions and repeated head injuries in less than a week.

Besides, the number of football games in a season was established many years before the current knowledge and concern about concussions existed. So concussions is not the reason football seasons have as few games as they do.
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  #65  
Old 02-03-17, 10:38 AM
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Why not just let the parents play? Heck they are obviously the true experts on anything little Johnny enjoys and 99% of these parents are just living through their kids.
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  #66  
Old 02-03-17, 10:39 AM
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The parents should have to run along side their kid with a leash so he can't hit so hard. You ever see the Westminster dog show?
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  #67  
Old 02-03-17, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
The parents should have to run along side their kid with a leash so he can't hit so hard. You ever see the Westminster dog show?
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  #68  
Old 02-03-17, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Youth football has to be the safest form of football out there because the speed of the players is so slow.
Force = 1/2 mass x speed squared. (Is my memory of high school physics correct?)

As a coach, I believe that youth football does nothing to develop the fundamentals or the skills required to play football at older levels.

The equipment i.e., helmet, is very good.

The players are too small (mass) and don't move fast enough (speed) to do much damage (force).

Just my educated opinion.
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  #69  
Old 02-03-17, 10:55 AM
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Thanks EP!!!!!
+1!

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  #70  
Old 02-03-17, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
The parents should have to run along side their kid with a leash so he can't hit so hard. You ever see the Westminster dog show?



Two of your jokes, this and the ankle weights, actually highlight a large part of the problem. The greater speeds on turf fields are probably making concussions more frequent.
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  #71  
Old 02-03-17, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
The parents should have to run along side their kid with a leash so he can't hit so hard. You ever see the Westminster dog show?


Some try this already.

Coached pee-wee years ago while just out of college. Not a parent one came to practice. I'm unsure how many even knew when practice was? Just a line of bikes/skateboards/scooters.

Fast forward 20 years and I coach my kids pee-wee team in 2008 and all these parents park and pull out lawn chairs and watch. I'm talking 75% of them. It was amazing.
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  #72  
Old 02-03-17, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
Recovery from injuries, including bumps and bruises but not concussions may be the primary reason, but you seldom recover from concussions and repeated head injuries in less than a week.

Besides, the number of football games in a season was established many years before the current knowledge and concern about concussions existed. So concussions is not the reason football seasons have as few games as they do.
Years ago concussions were considered part of the "bumps and bruises" and they thought you could recover from a head injury within the same game; even today's concussion protocol can be passed inside of a week; at a very minimum, weekly games limits the amount of games someone will miss due to a head injury. Today's concussion, as we know it, may not have driven the formation of the schedule, but you can bet it looms large in retaining it and limiting its expansion.
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  #73  
Old 02-03-17, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post



Two of your jokes, this and the ankle weights, actually highlight a large part of the problem. The greater speeds on turf fields are probably making concussions more frequent.
Speed and increased mass.
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  #74  
Old 02-03-17, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Speed and increased mass.
Yes it's physics. But the ankle weight thing would have to actually be a body weight percentage thing for it to be effective. But could you imagine how hard they would hit once the got into high school with no restrictions lol.
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  #75  
Old 02-03-17, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
Yes it's physics. But the ankle weight thing would have to actually be a body weight percentage thing for it to be effective. But could you imagine how hard they would hit once the got into high school with no restrictions lol.
Ankle wgts would likely just lead to a ton lower leg injuries. Sounds like a really dumb idea actually.
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  #76  
Old 02-03-17, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
... but you can bet it looms large in retaining it and limiting its expansion.
100% nonsense.
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  #77  
Old 02-03-17, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Ankle wgts would likely just lead to a ton lower leg injuries. Sounds like a really dumb idea actually.
Probably. But playing a game that has an abundance of concussions isn't a bad idea.
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  #78  
Old 02-03-17, 11:58 AM
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I'm pretty sure the ankle weights comment was a joke???

The other reason I think youth football is important, it's not critical for development of football skills, but it gets the kid involved in something. You ban youth football, the kids are going to do something? They'll play soccer or lacrosse and you may never get them back. Look there has been this soccer/ football argument for years. All I know is if a kid plays football and is good at it, they'll probably stay with football. If a kid plays soccer, but is interested and likes football is good at it they'll switch.

This is America, people watch/ follow football hundreds of times more than soccer.
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  #79  
Old 02-03-17, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
I'm pretty sure the ankle weights comment was a joke???

The other reason I think youth football is important, it's not critical for development of football skills, but it gets the kid involved in something. You ban youth football, the kids are going to do something? They'll play soccer or lacrosse and you may never get them back. Look there has been this soccer/ football argument for years. All I know is if a kid plays football and is good at it, they'll probably stay with football. If a kid plays soccer, but is interested and likes football is good at it they'll switch.

This is America, people watch/ follow football hundreds of times more than soccer.
Exactly. They will get the concussions in check sooner or later. Technology.
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  #80  
Old 02-03-17, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
The greater speeds on turf fields are probably making concussions more frequent.
I don't know, current turf fields are softer than a lot of natural grass fields. You don't run faster on a softer surface.
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  #81  
Old 02-03-17, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
100% nonsense.
Yeah, okay. Concerns about concussions and head blows have already changed the way teams walk through practice during the week.
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  #82  
Old 02-03-17, 12:25 PM
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I don't know, current turf fields are softer than a lot of natural grass fields. You don't run faster on a softer surface.
Studies show straight line speed shows little/no difference between modern field turf and natural grass, however there is a notable difference in agility/change of direction quickness. So his point has some merit.
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  #83  
Old 02-03-17, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Yeah, okay. Concerns about concussions and head blows have already changed the way teams walk through practice during the week.
Which has nothing to do with how many games are on the schedule.
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  #84  
Old 02-03-17, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
Which has nothing to do with how many games are on the schedule.
Of course injuries, including head injuries, influenced the number of games, the time between games and the long off season. Denying it just makes you look stupid.

The funnier part is you thinking increased risk of concussions wouldn't influence possible expansion of the season. They are already talking about reducing preseason games.
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  #85  
Old 02-03-17, 01:14 PM
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Something that needs to be noted...

1. football helmets and equipment are as good as they've been in history. The game has never been safer.

2. the NFL, NCAA has made player safety a directive. Look at the reviews of the questionable hits and subsequent ejections / fines of players. It starts with the players! Anyone that's played football knows you have that second or two before you make a play on defense that you can either take the guy out, or make the safe play. When we get to the point that players make the safer play most of the time, things will change. Sorry Steeler fans, but the most recent example I can use is the helmet to helmet shot the Steeler linebacker took on Matt Moore of the Dolphins in the playoffs. Oddly that play wasn't even reviewed and Moore returned to the game. But those kinds of hits are the ones that should no longer be allowed in football. Before facemasks were put on helmets, no one launched that way.
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  #86  
Old 02-03-17, 01:30 PM
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Which has nothing to do with how many games are on the schedule.
So tell me 70's, why don't they play football games everyday or every other day like they do basketball, baseball, hockey or even soccer?

And why does each pro team and most college teams have bye weeks?
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  #87  
Old 02-03-17, 01:38 PM
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Something that needs to be noted...

1. football helmets and equipment are as good as they've been in history. The game has never been safer.
Dumb part is dumb^

The recent equipment changes are nearly inconsequential. It's show. The upgrades from the 70's don't even begin to offset bigger faster players and the advent of turf. Rules/regulations have done far more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
2. the NFL, NCAA has made player safety a directive. Look at the reviews of the questionable hits and subsequent ejections / fines of players. It starts with the players! Anyone that's played football knows you have that second or two before you make a play on defense that you can either take the guy out, or make the safe play. When we get to the point that players make the safer play most of the time, things will change. Sorry Steeler fans, but the most recent example I can use is the helmet to helmet shot the Steeler linebacker took on Matt Moore of the Dolphins in the playoffs. Oddly that play wasn't even reviewed and Moore returned to the game. But those kinds of hits are the ones that should no longer be allowed in football. Before facemasks were put on helmets, no one launched that way.
Heads up, changes in the rules of play, and reducing hitting in practice actually help. And you are right about facemasks (and forgot eyeshield visors), again negating your first "point".
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  #88  
Old 02-03-17, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Zezzo! View Post
So tell me 70's, why don't they play football games everyday or every other day like they do basketball, baseball, hockey or even soccer?
Fatigue and injuries, just like I explained in post #64.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zezzo! View Post
And why does each pro team and most college teams have bye weeks?
In college it is because there are fewer games allowed than there are weeks in the season. You can start late, finish early, or have a bye in the middle.

In the NFL it is because of money. The longer the season lasts, the more advertising dollars there are. Every team doesn't need to play every week for everyone to make more money.

I get it, concussion are a big deal. As a player, coach, and official I have been involved in interscholastic football for over 50 years. I know a lot more about the issue than you or your purple friend.

Get over yourselves.
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  #89  
Old 02-03-17, 02:01 PM
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Fatigue and injuries, just like I explained in post #64.

In college it is because there are fewer games allowed than there are weeks in the season. You can start late, finish early, or have a bye in the middle.

In the NFL it is because of money. The longer the season lasts, the more advertising dollars there are. Every team doesn't need to play every week for everyone to make more money.

I get it, concussion are a big deal. As a player, coach, and official I have been involved in interscholastic football for over 50 years. I know a lot more about the issue than you or your purple friend.

Get over yourselves.
I love it when people cite their credentials and claim victory on the Internet.
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  #90  
Old 02-03-17, 02:07 PM
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I love it when people cite their credentials and claim victory on the Internet.
You've demonstrated the capacity for personal growth then.
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