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  #31  
Old 07-01-16, 07:54 PM
Hoosier Parent Hoosier Parent is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coachg View Post
Many ECNL teams already demand their players not play another sport. Do some research. OE has a reputation of strongly suggesting their top teams players dont play HS despite saying otherwise publically. I believe that US Soccer will be looking at the HS and other sport issue as they move forward.
I know about 6 or 7 OE girls. No one associated with the club or otherwise, suggested they shouldn't play HS.
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  #32  
Old 07-02-16, 07:10 AM
Empty CUP Empty CUP is offline
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It's interesting that Fire has listed themselves as a DA club on their website, yet it's not announced on the U.S. Soccer press release. Just spoke with a parent friend on one of their ECNL team and they as well as the bulk of her friends are staying on the ECNL team because of multiple sports. So I guess as per Coach G's thoughts one of 3 things are going to happen.

1. The club demands they quit all their sports to play on the DA

2. All the local players that didn't make the ECNL team will join Fire and instantly become the top team.

3. Kids on the 2nd, 3rd and 4th teams who don't mind being one dimensional athletes will instantly become the top players through osmosis.

So US Soccer is either going to be magical, or tyranical.
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  #33  
Old 07-02-16, 09:10 AM
Rohbino Rohbino is offline
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I've been watching these recent developments with interest and have been waiting for something to happen for a few years since I've been aware that something had been in the works. I'm glad that I haven't had a kid involved in the game for a few years because I am not convinced that all of the recent developments are truly going to advance the game. If the game improves, it will all have been worth it. If the game stagnates or regresses, it will have been yet another political pissing match. I do like some of the earlier mandates that were handed down from US Soccer with the exception of the birth year changes. The SSG changes, build-out lines that force the little ones to play the ball out of the back in order to discourage booting it out of the back, and other changes, will help advance the game. This GDA matter, though, will take a while for a thorough verdict to come back or for the full benefits to be realized - if the benefits ever are realized.

I have thoughts on all of this but I am going to reserve most of them. With all of this being said, I believe that the #1 way that the game can be improved is if it becomes more accessible to kids at a young age. By this I mean those kids that are good athletes and have potential but are raw and will never develop as soccer players unless they are afforded the opportunity to train at a high level. At the age that the GDA begins, the 14/15 group, the opportunity for those under-served kids will, for the most part, have passed. It is the rare diamond in the rough, Alex Morgan comes to mind, that can start training at a higher level around high school age and be able to glean benefits from it. For 99.99% of the athletes it is too late. Unless the GDA addresses that issue it will not become as good as it could be. This is all a glaring problem with the ECNL and, in general, all youth soccer in the United States. Not one entity has ever addressed the issue.

For the purposes of the discussion here, though, I have a question for coachg. What are your thoughts, coach, of clubs that do not allow, or strongly discourage, players to play high school soccer?
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  #34  
Old 07-02-16, 10:15 AM
Irwin20 Irwin20 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier Parent View Post
I know about 6 or 7 OE girls. No one associated with the club or otherwise, suggested they shouldn't play HS.
When is there time to play another sport? I know with my daughters soccer schedule they basically have Feb. off to do anything else and thats it.. HS Fall soccer and then right into club. I know of a couple girls who run track in the Spring but even that is difficult and full of conflicts. She would love to play basketball her SR year but I`m not sure its doable. In my mind they also need some downtime.
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  #35  
Old 07-02-16, 11:03 AM
Rohbino Rohbino is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwin20 View Post
When is there time to play another sport? I know with my daughters soccer schedule they basically have Feb. off to do anything else and thats it.. HS Fall soccer and then right into club. I know of a couple girls who run track in the Spring but even that is difficult and full of conflicts. She would love to play basketball her SR year but I`m not sure its doable. In my mind they also need some downtime.
Hoosier Parent wasn't referring to playing another HS sport. He or she was addressing the allegations that someone at OE has strongly suggested to players that they not play HS soccer.
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  #36  
Old 07-02-16, 12:52 PM
Rohbino Rohbino is offline
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Ohio Elite has put a statement out addressing the Academy. Here it is.

The second point seems to address coachg's assertions about participation in high school soccer. Remember that those playing in the GDA will be a relatively small number in relation to the total number of players of high school age. It will be a small percentage of players that will be asked to forego HS soccer. Still, though, CUP will be asking the GDA participants not to play HS ball and I'm curious if coachg's opinion of CUP will change.
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  #37  
Old 07-02-16, 03:07 PM
Irwin20 Irwin20 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohbino View Post
Hoosier Parent wasn't referring to playing another HS sport. He or she was addressing the allegations that someone at OE has strongly suggested to players that they not play HS soccer.
yeah realized that when I reread his quote. In any case gave me a chance to vent.
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  #38  
Old 07-02-16, 04:17 PM
Popps Popps is offline
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http://www.socceramerica.com/article...l-and-his.html
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  #39  
Old 07-02-16, 08:59 PM
pricesoccer17 pricesoccer17 is offline
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So when exactly can the DA kids not play HS soccer? This year or next year2017
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  #40  
Old 07-03-16, 07:12 AM
Irwin20 Irwin20 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pricesoccer17 View Post
So when exactly can the DA kids not play HS soccer? This year or next year2017
From what i've learned, nothing till 2017 at the earliest.
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  #41  
Old 07-03-16, 08:32 AM
coachg coachg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soccer Toe View Post
Coachg,
That's simply not true. My daughter played fall club with OE 4-5 years ago and that was not the case with the OE players that did play. Many weren't from the top team either. Did that happen to a few players over the years maybe maybe not exactly as you heard. I can imagine being suggested to a player that had a crappy high school team/coach that was on the borderline of moving up or down, now that would at least be plausible. P.S. I am not an OE supporter, quite the oppose. I am in the camp that he is a D-bag.
Talk to other HS coaches and HS players including ones that have won the State Title.
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  #42  
Old 07-03-16, 08:39 AM
coachg coachg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohbino View Post
I've been watching these recent developments with interest and have been waiting for something to happen for a few years since I've been aware that something had been in the works. I'm glad that I haven't had a kid involved in the game for a few years because I am not convinced that all of the recent developments are truly going to advance the game. If the game improves, it will all have been worth it. If the game stagnates or regresses, it will have been yet another political pissing match. I do like some of the earlier mandates that were handed down from US Soccer with the exception of the birth year changes. The SSG changes, build-out lines that force the little ones to play the ball out of the back in order to discourage booting it out of the back, and other changes, will help advance the game. This GDA matter, though, will take a while for a thorough verdict to come back or for the full benefits to be realized - if the benefits ever are realized.

I have thoughts on all of this but I am going to reserve most of them. With all of this being said, I believe that the #1 way that the game can be improved is if it becomes more accessible to kids at a young age. By this I mean those kids that are good athletes and have potential but are raw and will never develop as soccer players unless they are afforded the opportunity to train at a high level. At the age that the GDA begins, the 14/15 group, the opportunity for those under-served kids will, for the most part, have passed. It is the rare diamond in the rough, Alex Morgan comes to mind, that can start training at a higher level around high school age and be able to glean benefits from it. For 99.99% of the athletes it is too late. Unless the GDA addresses that issue it will not become as good as it could be. This is all a glaring problem with the ECNL and, in general, all youth soccer in the United States. Not one entity has ever addressed the issue.

For the purposes of the discussion here, though, I have a question for coachg. What are your thoughts, coach, of clubs that do not allow, or strongly discourage, players to play high school soccer?
I believe playing HS is important to the development of an individual. Now with that said if a player is playing on a National team I think they need to forgo playing there. My thought in coaches and clubs that don't allow or discourage HS play is simple. They are wrong but I can respect more an organization that says it up front rather than one that lies about it.
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  #43  
Old 07-03-16, 08:53 AM
coachg coachg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohbino View Post
Ohio Elite has put a statement out addressing the Academy. Here it is.

The second point seems to address coachg's assertions about participation in high school soccer. Remember that those playing in the GDA will be a relatively small number in relation to the total number of players of high school age. It will be a small percentage of players that will be asked to forego HS soccer. Still, though, CUP will be asking the GDA participants not to play HS ball and I'm curious if coachg's opinion of CUP will change.
Interesting read that OE put out. Are they saying OE has had 25 players called up to the national team or that the ECNL has?

If the DA does stick with those rules I will not agree with them. CUP and KHA will be only complying with the rules and at least a player knows going in this is the expectation and they agreed to it. Unlike join a club and then being told after tryouts your spot for the spring may not be saved if you don't play club I the fall. I can respect but disagree with one but not the other.
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  #44  
Old 07-04-16, 01:09 PM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty CUP View Post
So only 3 different age groups. 4 nighst a week practice, kids can't play multiple sports, can't play any type soccer with anyone other than their DA coach (Futsal,3v3, High school) and most improtantly the system has destroyed mens soccer. The vast majority of college coaches want multi-sport athletes who spend time with their school, and extra time doing social philanthropic things.
The DA system has NOT destroyed men's soccer. If anything, it's made it more top-heavy and allowed for most top-level players to be identified easier. Now, it isn't "fixed." There's issues still, yes. But, if a kid has access to a DA and he (and now she) can do it...why not?

Vast majority of college coaches want multi-sport athletes? Not hardly. College coaches want student-athletes who will help their program. They'll help win, help regional/national recognition, advance program, advance institution, etc. Talking just athletically, college coaches want players who can play the sport that coach coaches. Athleticism is great, but college rules don't permit for great development opportunity with a coach -- so, players must be somewhat ready, advanced, or show potential to play at a higher level.

I have yet to talk to one coach who recruits based on "multi-sport athletes." Sure, it could show someone is an "athlete." But, college soccer coaches need more than an "athlete," they need someone who can play soccer. If anything, multi-sport athletes now are a pain in the rear because they think they can be involved in EVERYTHING and still be "the man" (or "the woman") -- this simply isn't the case. One has to dedicate more time and effort in college and beyond than they did in HS/club.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty CUP View Post
4 nights a week doesn't really bother me. The high school thing does, but most important is the no other sports. That's just not good for kids in my opinion. The bulk of talented national players played multiple sports, it's good for their overall development and reduces injury.
So, we base the "bulk of talented national players" playing multiple sports? It's good for their overall development?

Where is the US men on a worldwide level? Underdeveloped in soccer. But...at least they played multiple sports!

Let's look at the other countries...how are their national teams with multi-sport athletes? Probably pretty minimal and it works out just fine (and much better!) for them. Why not the US?

And, let's rethink the "reduce injuries" notion. What reduces injuries -- that clubs, parents, HS, and personal trainers don't emphasize enough of -- is "rest." Part of the "rest" could be cross training different parts of the body and different muscle groups. But, nothing reduces injuries more than rest and rehabilitation. Going from soccer to basketball to track is just as problematic than soccer to soccer to soccer. Yes, there's some cross-training done by mixing up the sport, but there's still not enough rest.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty CUP View Post
They said the mens DA was an important step forward. How's that worked out? I know I'm dim and all but I can see that pretty clearly.
How? You think the men's DA can be effectively evaluated now? You do realize that for the first X-years, the DA only existed for U18, U17, and U16? Only now (and last couple years) have they included U14, U13, and U12. You really want to judge the DA on how it's done for 16-18 year olds? What about the previous 12-14 years of a kid's development?! Heck, some DAs only offer a couple age groups, so it's even less effective of an evaluation.
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  #45  
Old 07-04-16, 01:59 PM
Empty CUP Empty CUP is offline
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Well there's this...

"Research has shown that single-sport athletes tend to be more prone to injury. A Loyola University study found that athletes who specialized were 70 to 93 percent more likely to be injured than children who played multiple sports. According to researchers at Ohio State University, children who specialize in a single sport account for around half of overuse injuries in young athletes."

or this..

http://www.drdavidgeier.com/benefits...ltiple-sports/

this..

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/1...perts-say.html

Otr you could talk with Beacon and ask their thoughts. They kinda undstand this whole thing..

As for Multi sports..

http://footballscoop.com/news/value-...share-players/

http://www.ncsasports.org/blog/2014/...hool-athletes/

Not to mention the direct conversations I've had with them while my oldest was in the process. It was resounding they preferd kids who played multiple sports. Not to mention I can't think of a high level player on the womens national team that didn't play multiple sports.

I can make it easy for you..

"To be an elite level player at a college or professional sport, you need a degree of exceptional athleticism. And the best medically, scientifically and psychologically recommended way to develop such all around athleticism is ample free play and multiple sport participation."

Possibly the best info on multi sport

http://changingthegameproject.com/th...participation/

The Mens DA, SMDH...How longs it been around what 10 years? Hows that team doing? How are they seen internationally? How have they progressed the last 10 years?

We both know the answer.

How are the women with a strong foundation of ECNL players (north of 80%) doing? How are they seen internationally? How have they progressed the last 10 years?

We both know the answer.

Mic drop....
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  #46  
Old 07-04-16, 07:14 PM
Sports_Fan_ Sports_Fan_ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty CUP View Post
Well there's this...

"Research has shown that single-sport athletes tend to be more prone to injury. A Loyola University study found that athletes who specialized were 70 to 93 percent more likely to be injured than children who played multiple sports. According to researchers at Ohio State University, children who specialize in a single sport account for around half of overuse injuries in young athletes."

or this..

http://www.drdavidgeier.com/benefits...ltiple-sports/

this..

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/1...perts-say.html

Otr you could talk with Beacon and ask their thoughts. They kinda undstand this whole thing..

As for Multi sports..

http://footballscoop.com/news/value-...share-players/

http://www.ncsasports.org/blog/2014/...hool-athletes/

Not to mention the direct conversations I've had with them while my oldest was in the process. It was resounding they preferd kids who played multiple sports. Not to mention I can't think of a high level player on the womens national team that didn't play multiple sports.

I can make it easy for you..

"To be an elite level player at a college or professional sport, you need a degree of exceptional athleticism. And the best medically, scientifically and psychologically recommended way to develop such all around athleticism is ample free play and multiple sport participation."

Possibly the best info on multi sport

http://changingthegameproject.com/th...participation/

The Mens DA, SMDH...How longs it been around what 10 years? Hows that team doing? How are they seen internationally? How have they progressed the last 10 years?

We both know the answer.

How are the women with a strong foundation of ECNL players (north of 80%) doing? How are they seen internationally? How have they progressed the last 10 years?

We both know the answer.

Mic drop....
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  #47  
Old 07-04-16, 07:16 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Taking the "you should play one sport" argument isn't going to get you very far. There's too much evidence to the contrary. And I'm hard pressed to buy the idea that coaches want one sport athletes when there is article and interview after article and interview of coaches, scouts, admins, trainers, and doctors, all saying they want to see kids playing multiple sports.

With that said, I'm perfectly fine with the DA, and other similar programs in other sports. What tends to get lost in all this is this will serve the top fraction of a percent of players, the cream of the cream of the crop. The impact it will have on local clubs and high school teams will be minimal at best. And as far as trying to compare these kids to the normal arguments had with kids as athletes isn't really all that fair because they are so exceptional. I just wish programs like this, in all sports, could be made fully funded and free to the players that qualify. That's how you truly get the best of the best, instead of the best of the best.......that can afford it.

And finally, one of the contributing factors for why US soccer continues to struggle against the rest of the world is because our country just has way too many options to play sports, and many of those other sports are higher on the food chain than soccer. In most countries across the world they not only don't have as many options for kids, but soccer is usually the top dog. That means for other countries, their top athletes are looking to play soccer first. We don't have that here, and many of the top athletes at the younger ages get funneled to sports like football or basketball, and even baseball first. Having to battle for top athletes and being behind in the pecking order, along with other contributing factors, leads to soccer not being able to make the gap up on the national stage. I have no problem with US soccer doing what they can to help close that gap the best they can. Again, if they can find a way to make it free they will definitely be on the right track.
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  #48  
Old 07-04-16, 07:51 PM
Empty CUP Empty CUP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwin20 View Post
When is there time to play another sport? I know with my daughters soccer schedule they basically have Feb. off to do anything else and thats it.. HS Fall soccer and then right into club. I know of a couple girls who run track in the Spring but even that is difficult and full of conflicts. She would love to play basketball her SR year but I`m not sure its doable. In my mind they also need some downtime.
I got bored waiting for late patients this afternoon so I pulled up Columbia Soccer (my Wife's alma mater).

11 recruits, the large majority (8) from the ECNL (of course...)

all 8 who played in the ECNL also played for their H.S.

The sports played included, Soccer, Track, Basketball, Softball, Lacrosse and swimming.

5 played Multiple sports, 2 of them were ECNL girls and 1 girl played in 4 sports. 2 additional girls played high level Futsal that also would not be allowed under the draconian DA rules.

http://m.gocolumbialions.com/mobile/...B_OEM_ID=9600&

I took a quick look at the Number 1 team in the nation Penn State. 7 of 8 from the ECNL (again no surprise) 6 of 8 were on various age National Teams, and 6 of 8 did Multiple sports, 3 will do multiple sports in College while playing for the number 1 team in the nation.

Guess Coach Dambach knows a thing or two. ECNL players and Multi-Sport athletes make a great team.

(Assistant coach for the 2008 gold medalist U.S. Women's National Team at the Beijing Olympics

Assistant Coach for the 2011 United States Women's National Team at the FIFA (International Federation of Association Football) World Cup in Germany

Assisted the 2012 U.S. Women's Olympic squad through the qualifying stage

Served as head coach for the U.S. U-17 Women's National Team from 2004-07

Assisted the U.S. U-19 Women's National Team in 2004

Assistant coach for the U-20 Women's National Team from December 2013-Present)

Go figure....
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  #49  
Old 07-04-16, 11:56 PM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty CUP View Post
Well there's this...

"Research has shown that single-sport athletes tend to be more prone to injury. A Loyola University study found that athletes who specialized were 70 to 93 percent more likely to be injured than children who played multiple sports. According to researchers at Ohio State University, children who specialize in a single sport account for around half of overuse injuries in young athletes."

or this..

http://www.drdavidgeier.com/benefits...ltiple-sports/

this..

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/1...perts-say.html

Otr you could talk with Beacon and ask their thoughts. They kinda undstand this whole thing..

As for Multi sports..

http://footballscoop.com/news/value-...share-players/

http://www.ncsasports.org/blog/2014/...hool-athletes/

Not to mention the direct conversations I've had with them while my oldest was in the process. It was resounding they preferd kids who played multiple sports. Not to mention I can't think of a high level player on the womens national team that didn't play multiple sports.

I can make it easy for you..

"To be an elite level player at a college or professional sport, you need a degree of exceptional athleticism. And the best medically, scientifically and psychologically recommended way to develop such all around athleticism is ample free play and multiple sport participation."

Possibly the best info on multi sport

http://changingthegameproject.com/th...participation/

The Mens DA, SMDH...How longs it been around what 10 years? Hows that team doing? How are they seen internationally? How have they progressed the last 10 years?

We both know the answer.

How are the women with a strong foundation of ECNL players (north of 80%) doing? How are they seen internationally? How have they progressed the last 10 years?

We both know the answer.

Mic drop....
Congrats...you read a few articles.

Again, where's that "research" with how EVERY other country is doing soccer (or sports?). It works doesn't it? How about before this past NBA draft nearly 10-11 of the 15 picks (3 years, top 5 picks) were all internationals. How many NBA players are saying that internationally basketball is better right now at development?

How many MLS draft picks are internationals, especially the top picks and in first round? It's overwhelming. How about MLS is second highest IN THE WORLD in international player percentage -- over 40% of the league is international. So, how is that "multi-sport" decision actually making things look?

Now, you are so caught up on your POV and these articles to actually discuss the topic. I'm not necessarily against multi-sport athletes. I'm against this: HS soccer player skipping soccer open fields in June/July to participate in basketball open gyms WHILE he/she wants to play college soccer. This is all too common.

I don't care what sports kids play. I won't encourage them to multi-sport or specialize. I will encourage them to focus and be dedicated in whatever they do. As a coach, I do know that the more you fill up your plate...something else is going to struggle. A person simply cannot be good (or great) in many things all the time at every level. At some point, it'll catch up and they'll have to make a decision. For a select few, they can do it because they are more dedicated, focused, manage time better, etc. I want the kids to make the decisions for themselves. It's part of growing up.

I'm also against statements like this: "The vast majority of college coaches want multi-sport athletes who spend time with their school, and extra time doing social philanthropic things." While you "talk to your oldest about it...I'm in the college game, with college coaches daily, and talk recruiting nonstop. Not one time does ANY coach I've talked to talk about how they "want" multi-sport athletes (spend time with their school, philanthropic things, etc.). Now, none are necessarily against multi-sport athletes (neither am I), but they want players who are ready to play at the college level -- most aren't these days.

Now, on to the DA issue...

If you believe it's a DA reason why the USMNT hasn't progressed, the we don't need to continue chatting about it. There is so much more to it than a DA issue. It's a club issue. It's a HS issue. It's an American soccer issue...period. Men's soccer in the US is nowhere close to being ready to compete with the world.

Why is women's soccer so much better? What other country has put as much emphasis in equality to women than the US? Who has pushed women to the forefront in almost EVERY aspect in life? The US. Rightfully so. We are ahead of the game with women's athletics, especially soccer, than everyone else. Simple as that. I think the 2011 World Cup showed that the USWNT isn't unbeatable. I don't think the 2015 World Cup was the USWNT's best performance with "soccer."

Again, doesn't matter how long the DA has existed, if they get kids at 12 years old...they'll continue to struggle. Heck, we've had soccer in the country for over 100 years...and the sport struggles, period. Who's to blame there? Let's compare the DA at 10 years to the US in soccer at 100+. Shouldn't things be better now with all the different avenues and outlets that have been experimented with here?

Let's see how Spain, Germany, and Chile have progressed in the last 10-15 years. Chile was ranked nearly 100 only 2-3 years ago, now they are top 5 and won 2 Copa America's in 2 years. Spain and Germany both have World Cup trophies (maybe a Germany EURO this year). We could even include Iceland if we want, a country of 320,000 that has moved from 131 to 28 in world rankings in 2 years (above the US). They've done it with specialized athletes in academies. Hmmmmm.
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  #50  
Old 07-05-16, 12:20 AM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
Taking the "you should play one sport" argument isn't going to get you very far. There's too much evidence to the contrary. And I'm hard pressed to buy the idea that coaches want one sport athletes when there is article and interview after article and interview of coaches, scouts, admins, trainers, and doctors, all saying they want to see kids playing multiple sports.

With that said, I'm perfectly fine with the DA, and other similar programs in other sports. What tends to get lost in all this is this will serve the top fraction of a percent of players, the cream of the cream of the crop. The impact it will have on local clubs and high school teams will be minimal at best. And as far as trying to compare these kids to the normal arguments had with kids as athletes isn't really all that fair because they are so exceptional. I just wish programs like this, in all sports, could be made fully funded and free to the players that qualify. That's how you truly get the best of the best, instead of the best of the best.......that can afford it.

And finally, one of the contributing factors for why US soccer continues to struggle against the rest of the world is because our country just has way too many options to play sports, and many of those other sports are higher on the food chain than soccer. In most countries across the world they not only don't have as many options for kids, but soccer is usually the top dog. That means for other countries, their top athletes are looking to play soccer first. We don't have that here, and many of the top athletes at the younger ages get funneled to sports like football or basketball, and even baseball first. Having to battle for top athletes and being behind in the pecking order, along with other contributing factors, leads to soccer not being able to make the gap up on the national stage. I have no problem with US soccer doing what they can to help close that gap the best they can. Again, if they can find a way to make it free they will definitely be on the right track.
I addressed it in my post back to Empty, but I'll reiterate it here.

I'm not necessarily saying, "kids should specialize." What I do know is: kids do it all over the world and it works out just fine. Many kids benefit from playing multiple sports. Many kids benefit from playing one sport. There's no one way to "develop" as an athlete. It's up to the individual and/or family to make those decisions.

I don't buy the "top athlete" thing one bit. Chile's starting 10 (not the GK) in the Copa America championship was like 5'8". That's not often a height that is thought of as being a "top athlete." We could go back and forth with it, I imagine we won't get anywhere. Basically, there's tons of soccer players on every national team and professional team that can be viewed as subpar athlete and/or elite athlete. Either way, they have separated themselves and made it a career. We all know how Chad Johnson looked as a soccer player. We also know how a tremendous athlete in Michael Jordan looked on the baseball field. Brock Lesnar didn't last long on the gridiron. There's more to being an athlete when performing at a national or international level.

Lastly, read many of these studies, a lot are pretty straightforward in saying key words: "specialized early," "young athletes," "early specialization," "children," "young age," and even "pre-teen." Even from Empty's "Changing the Game Project" (which is a great organization) link, those words are so blatant. When specialization is talked about (even when it seemed as if I "encouraged" it), it seems that multi-sport defenders think everyone talks about it from age 5 to whenever.

Definitely not the case. I would never encourage a 5 year old to specialize. A 5 year old and 13-18 year old are completely different. Lebron James specialized...when he gave up football in HS before his senior year. Was that terrible of him? Nope. It's okay to specialize. But, when someone does it, they do have to ensure they do the right things so their bodies and minds have other outlets -- which is what I alluded to with how clubs, parents, and coaches don't do enough of.
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Old 07-05-16, 02:22 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by belied dat View Post
I addressed it in my post back to Empty, but I'll reiterate it here.

I'm not necessarily saying, "kids should specialize." What I do know is: kids do it all over the world and it works out just fine. Many kids benefit from playing multiple sports. Many kids benefit from playing one sport. There's no one way to "develop" as an athlete. It's up to the individual and/or family to make those decisions.

I don't buy the "top athlete" thing one bit. Chile's starting 10 (not the GK) in the Copa America championship was like 5'8". That's not often a height that is thought of as being a "top athlete." We could go back and forth with it, I imagine we won't get anywhere. Basically, there's tons of soccer players on every national team and professional team that can be viewed as subpar athlete and/or elite athlete. Either way, they have separated themselves and made it a career. We all know how Chad Johnson looked as a soccer player. We also know how a tremendous athlete in Michael Jordan looked on the baseball field. Brock Lesnar didn't last long on the gridiron. There's more to being an athlete when performing at a national or international level.

Lastly, read many of these studies, a lot are pretty straightforward in saying key words: "specialized early," "young athletes," "early specialization," "children," "young age," and even "pre-teen." Even from Empty's "Changing the Game Project" (which is a great organization) link, those words are so blatant. When specialization is talked about (even when it seemed as if I "encouraged" it), it seems that multi-sport defenders think everyone talks about it from age 5 to whenever.

Definitely not the case. I would never encourage a 5 year old to specialize. A 5 year old and 13-18 year old are completely different. Lebron James specialized...when he gave up football in HS before his senior year. Was that terrible of him? Nope. It's okay to specialize. But, when someone does it, they do have to ensure they do the right things so their bodies and minds have other outlets -- which is what I alluded to with how clubs, parents, and coaches don't do enough of.
Going to just one sport before your senior year of high school is not specializing. When that topic comes up most are talking about the epidemic of it happening before high school and even in elementary school. You say you're not for having s kid play just one sport starting at age 5, well are you not paying attention to what is happening in the society around you??? We have many, many, many coaches and organizations pushing to have you dedicate your kids time to just them and only them. This is starting at the elementary level and across many sports. You keep alluding to what other countries are doing and how successful they are with it. Are you advocating for kids educating their entire childhoods to playing soccer? Cuz you're kinda are.

Now if you wang to talk about high school kids, you know why most college athletes played more than one sport in high school, including your buddy Lebron? Because ones that can play multiple sports in high school are elite athletes, particularly at large division high schools, period. Whether college coaches want potential athletes to play more than one sport or not is sort of a moot point, because the elite athletes they want are multi sport athletes anyway.

See those special kids have a larger potential level than other kids. They don't need to spend 12 months in a sport to be able to reach the same skill level as the other kids. They can spend 6-9 months a year and not only equal those kids, but also surpass them. As a scout those kids stsnd out immediately. 10-15 minutes of watching them in person is enough to see the difference.

Now does that mean those kids should specialize? Before high school I'd say no. By that time it won't hurt them if they do or don't. Before high school id definitely say no. That's where the medical and psychological part plays the biggest part. It hurts their muscle development, makes them more prone to injury, and opens them up to the "burn out" option, where the sport becomes boring due to the monotony.

So for a high school kid it's up to them. They can specialize if they'd like with not a ton of negative to it, but they should also be allowed to play other sports if they want and can do. Atbthe end of it all a kid needs to be doing what they want to do if they want to be successful at it. A parent can nd should guide, as well as a coach. But if someone is forced to do something, regardless of whether it's supposed to be the best thing for them, they will never fully reach their potential because internally there will also be a piece of them fighting it. Holding them back, if even slightly.
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  #52  
Old 07-05-16, 07:02 AM
Irwin20 Irwin20 is offline
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Originally Posted by Empty CUP View Post
I got bored waiting for late patients this afternoon so I pulled up Columbia Soccer (my Wife's alma mater).

11 recruits, the large majority (8) from the ECNL (of course...)

all 8 who played in the ECNL also played for their H.S.

The sports played included, Soccer, Track, Basketball, Softball, Lacrosse and swimming.

5 played Multiple sports, 2 of them were ECNL girls and 1 girl played in 4 sports. 2 additional girls played high level Futsal that also would not be allowed under the draconian DA rules.

http://m.gocolumbialions.com/mobile/...B_OEM_ID=9600&

I took a quick look at the Number 1 team in the nation Penn State. 7 of 8 from the ECNL (again no surprise) 6 of 8 were on various age National Teams, and 6 of 8 did Multiple sports, 3 will do multiple sports in College while playing for the number 1 team in the nation.

Guess Coach Dambach knows a thing or two. ECNL players and Multi-Sport athletes make a great team.

(Assistant coach for the 2008 gold medalist U.S. Women's National Team at the Beijing Olympics

Assistant Coach for the 2011 United States Women's National Team at the FIFA (International Federation of Association Football) World Cup in Germany

Assisted the 2012 U.S. Women's Olympic squad through the qualifying stage

Served as head coach for the U.S. U-17 Women's National Team from 2004-07

Assisted the U.S. U-19 Women's National Team in 2004

Assistant coach for the U-20 Women's National Team from December 2013-Present)

Go figure....
I think thats great. Still don't know how they find the time to properly devote to the second sport. You can play soccer and a second sport if your club is ok with it and your HS coach is ok with it. One or the other is eventually going to get the "short end". Is it fair to the HS girls (for instance) that come to all the practices, workouts, car washes and get pushed aside by the soccer kid who comes to 2 practices a week and starts?

Concessions have to be made to pull this off. Not saying it can't be done. I mentioned my daughter would like to play basketball. We tried it for a few weeks sophomore year and she was running from one sport activity to the next for several weeks and decided she wasn't doing either team any favors.
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Old 07-05-16, 09:22 AM
buckshooter5 buckshooter5 is offline
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Wonder when people will start protesting against this garbage. Another system designed to keep people out. Wallets rule the day. Sad Times.
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  #54  
Old 07-05-16, 09:39 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by buckshooter5 View Post
Wonder when people will start protesting against this garbage. Another system designed to keep people out. Wallets rule the day. Sad Times.
And how exactly is the ECNL any different. Last I checked you needed big money to play with them too.
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Old 07-05-16, 09:45 AM
Empty CUP Empty CUP is offline
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You simply cannot convice me or anyone who has an ounce of sense that multi-sports does not make a healthier, more recriuted and better athlete. I'm sure all the pundit's are wrong and you're right.

Last I looked, the US women were the best in the nation. They are still trending up and look even better now than they did before and they have been looking great for a while.

Ever wonder what these athletes have to say about it. Seems since they are the ones playing it they might just have some insight. I pulled this from a D1 coaches Twitter this morning.

http://tcboost.com/u-s-women-were-mu...ing-on-soccer/

The women who are multi sports athletes and rising from the ECNL are unarguably the best female soccer players in the world.

and dat you can Belied.
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Old 07-05-16, 10:27 AM
buckshooter5 buckshooter5 is offline
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Originally Posted by Empty CUP View Post
You simply cannot convice me or anyone who has an ounce of sense that multi-sports does not make a healthier, more recriuted and better athlete. I'm sure all the pundit's are wrong and you're right.

Last I looked, the US women were the best in the nation. They are still trending up and look even better now than they did before and they have been looking great for a while.

Ever wonder what these athletes have to say about it. Seems since they are the ones playing it they might just have some insight. I pulled this from a D1 coaches Twitter this morning.

http://tcboost.com/u-s-women-were-mu...ing-on-soccer/


The women who are multi sports athletes and rising from the ECNL are unarguably the best female soccer players in the world.

and dat you can Belied.



Very True Empty!! Just look at Ohio State Football, almost every kid on the team are two sport athletes. Top programs want the BEST ATHLETE!!! Wake Up Parents!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!
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Old 07-05-16, 11:09 AM
Irwin20 Irwin20 is offline
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Originally Posted by Empty CUP View Post
You simply cannot convice me or anyone who has an ounce of sense that multi-sports does not make a healthier, more recriuted and better athlete. I'm sure all the pundit's are wrong and you're right.

Last I looked, the US women were the best in the nation. They are still trending up and look even better now than they did before and they have been looking great for a while.

Ever wonder what these athletes have to say about it. Seems since they are the ones playing it they might just have some insight. I pulled this from a D1 coaches Twitter this morning.

http://tcboost.com/u-s-women-were-mu...ing-on-soccer/

The women who are multi sports athletes and rising from the ECNL are unarguably the best female soccer players in the world.

and dat you can Belied.
If this is directed at me I agree with you! My stance is thats its very difficult to play high level club soccer and another sport.
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Old 07-05-16, 01:07 PM
coachg coachg is offline
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What's what's your guys take on this?
MYTHS OF ECNL and ADDITIONAL SOCCER ENVIRONMENTS
Can a player that participates in the ECNL also participate in high school soccer?
YES and NO
Yes. The ECNL schedules are created to insure that all players that participate in the ECNL also
have the opportunity to play high school soccer.
The ECNL is not prohibiting players from its member
clubs from participating in high school soccer.
FCNova High School Standard
For FCN ECNL at U16 and above (sophomore and above), we recommend high school soccer from
Aug 1st to the end of October.
For FCN ECNL Freshman class standing players within the U14 and U15 age groups we do not
recommend playing high school soccer. The national level of play/schedule requires a dedication to
high level training and preperation. The U14 and U15 age groups within the ECNL require small/
logistical breaks in and around quality training/play that High School soccer just does not facilitate.
Simply put; taking July, August, September and October off from ECNL level training does not
prepare the athlete for the level of play and standards demanded.
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Old 07-05-16, 01:12 PM
coachg coachg is offline
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So the ECNL has looked at and continues to look at not allowing players to play HS. Some ECNL clubs already don't allow it, and other control when and what age, other say they allow it but secretly discourage it.
Below is from an article I read. Pretty interesting.
For now, the ECNL has kept with its original format and allows players to play for both high school and club. Will that change down the line? Maybe not tomorrow, but the league isn’t ruling out the possibility.
“We’ve talked about it. It’s been discussed,” ECNL commissioner Sarah Kate Noftsinger said. “It’s a hot topic. It’s something that gets people fired up left and right, and if you say the wrong thing you can start a wildfire. We’re in such a luxurious position. Look at the size of the United States. It’s massive. Geographically, it’s a huge country, and we have so many people. Every area of the country is so different, so saying the right thing or the wrong thing could be different in each market.”
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Old 07-05-16, 02:21 PM
Empty CUP Empty CUP is offline
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Originally Posted by Irwin20 View Post
If this is directed at me I agree with you! My stance is thats its very difficult to play high level club soccer and another sport.
No, my issue is not with you. I was just using your post as a guide for the ability to play more.

It's aimed at coachg and belied dat. Although belied dat may have cognitive issues, so perhaps he should be excused from the conversation.

Coach G, almost every current ECNL girl at OE plays for their HS team. Same with CUP and Hammer. Including the girls that have been called up to the National team. If OE was so anti play for your school don't you think it would be more pervasive kids not doing it? And leaving to play for CUP or Hammer? From lower level ECNL girls to Ravin. I have yet to see or read of a highly recruited player from the ECNL that didn't play for their High school.

You seem to be very anti ECNL, it looks to the trained eye to stem mainly from your dislike of DB. Being at CUP I can tell you there are some very polarizing coaches here as well. Hammer is no different. But it does not change the fact that the 3 produce awesome soccer players and have made South Western Ohio a hot bed for top athletes. That cannot be denied.

Simply because one league, the ECNL has shown over and over again with undeniable proof that it is the premier league in the country for producing top soccer players, you seem to want to drag it down. Perhaps because CUP has not been able to get in. Jealousy looks suspiciously like your constant beratement.

I am jealous of the ECNL. I know what it can do for kids. I can see with no rose colored glasses what it has done for the National Team and Womens soccer as a whole. The NL is awesome, we get good to really good competition sometimes even great. Plenty of travel. Hell we've traveled more than my daughters friends in the ECNL actually, and it has allowed her the ability to land on a team at the next step.

But it's not the ECNL and just because we're jealous of it, does not mean it's not the best. Your hatred comes across as Petulant, and is unbecoming of a coach and I would have to question your ability to stay unbiased as a ref either for OE or against CUP/CU.

I swear I dont get this venom between fans of the 3 clubs. It's like a dirt bag hillbilly, who thinks Chevy is the best because that's what he has and anyone with a Ford or Dodge is "stupid". Cue the mullet, cut off shorts, dumb window sticker and belly overhang. SMDH....

How can anyone who says they love the sport take issue with any of the BIG 3, and what they bring to the area. Bobby/Tiffany/Tim/Doug are 4 very different people with 3 varying takes on how to play the game. Be happy we have these options for our girls. There are things I dont like about each club but holy are we lucky.

I don't like the dynamic of the DA, though it will be another good team in the area. But it's unncesssary.
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