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  #31  
Old 01-02-14, 03:00 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Under NFHS rules, the 5 second count ends when throw-in leaves the thrower's hands.

The 10 second count begins when the ball is in control (possession) of a player from the throwing team.
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  #32  
Old 01-02-14, 05:31 PM
NEOHGTI NEOHGTI is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dman2x View Post
To preserve clock teams will roll the ball in so the clock does not start. However here is my question: When the inbounding player takes the ball out of bounds after a made basket he has 5 seconds to in bound the ball. The team then has 10 seconds to advance the ball across the halfcourt line. However, when the ball is rolling the referee still has his hand over his head so is the original 5 count still in effect because the ball has not been touched or is it deemed to be in play (in bounded). Does the back court 10 count start when the ball is in bounded or when it is touched.
FWIW also - the clock doesn't stop in NFHS rules on a made basket under normal circumstances. I'd have to assume you're talking about a made free throw, actually (or maybe coming back after a timeout)? Otherwise, there's little logic in a player delaying the 'touch' on the inbounds throw/roll. Allsports obviously has given the details of the 5-second and 10 second counts.
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  #33  
Old 01-06-14, 09:34 PM
WX Dude WX Dude is offline
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Situation:
Players come out of their benches between overtime period 1 and overtime period 2 and line up improperly for a tip-off on their own (Players are facing the wrong basket at the beginning of the second overtime period.) Referee comes in and starts the period without correcting the error. Tip-off goes off normally, player sinks basket in wrong basket. The scoreboard operator immediately informs the refs of the problem.

What is the rule? What should have been the call?

What actually happened
1:09:20 into the video.

The ref counted the basket, you can hear him say he is not taking away points, and did a mid-court throw-in for the other team to continue the period.
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  #34  
Old 01-06-14, 10:16 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WX Dude View Post
Situation:
Players come out of their benches between overtime period 1 and overtime period 2 and line up improperly for a tip-off on their own (Players are facing the wrong basket at the beginning of the second overtime period.) Referee comes in and starts the period without correcting the error. Tip-off goes off normally, player sinks basket in wrong basket. The scoreboard operator immediately informs the refs of the problem.

What is the rule? What should have been the call?

What actually happened
1:09:20 into the video.

The ref counted the basket, you can hear him say he is not taking away points, and did a mid-court throw-in for the other team to continue the period.
I'm interested in this too because I've seen it happen and the refs ruled the basket good for the defensive team. I was very surprised that an officials mistake was not corrected and held against the scoring team.

Just want to be clear, the way you described it, the score was counted for the scoring team, correct? That seems more reasonable than the game that I saw.

**Edit**
Just watched the video. I like how the refs did this. Just wondering if that was the correct way to do it. I also like the call at the end of the 1st OT. Way too many times, a foul is overlooked on the final shot from half-court. Great job by the kid to hit all 3 free-throws.
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  #35  
Old 01-06-14, 10:22 PM
WX Dude WX Dude is offline
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Correct. They scored it as not to penalize the scoring team for the official's error. To be fair, I am not certain that anyone on the court caught the problem until the scoreboard operator essentially stopped the game to inform the refs of the error.
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  #36  
Old 01-06-14, 10:48 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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This event is specifically covered in the rule book. (Rule 4-5-4) It is an officials' error and not a correctable error. All points scored, time consumed, fouls committed...etc are counted as if the teams were going in the proper direction.

The ball is put into play at the point nearest to where it was when play was stopped.

Looks like they did it right.........after they did it wrong
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  #37  
Old 01-06-14, 11:21 PM
WX Dude WX Dude is offline
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I am always amazed at how often refs get it right when, with the benefit of hindsight, video replay, and calm reflection, I can't figure it out! The more fans foam at the mouth about terrible refs, the more I give them the benefit of the doubt. File this one under "shhtuff happens".
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  #38  
Old 01-06-14, 11:33 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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The good that will come out of this is they'll take their time and make sure the teams are facing the correct way for every jump ball for the rest of their officiating careers.
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  #39  
Old 01-10-14, 08:25 AM
hssportsfan hssportsfan is offline
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last night in a game a player from team A fouled. this was the 5th foul for that player. the next play continued with the player that committed the 5th foul still on the floor. team A stole the inbound pass from team B and went down and scored. just so happened the person that scored was the person that committed the 5th foul on the previous play. after the bucket the scores table sounded the horn to stop play an make the officials aware of the situation.

is this a correctable error? should the points have been taken off the scoreboard?
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  #40  
Old 01-10-14, 09:19 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hssportsfan View Post
last night in a game a player from team A fouled. this was the 5th foul for that player. the next play continued with the player that committed the 5th foul still on the floor. team A stole the inbound pass from team B and went down and scored. just so happened the person that scored was the person that committed the 5th foul on the previous play. after the bucket the scores table sounded the horn to stop play an make the officials aware of the situation.

is this a correctable error? should the points have been taken off the scoreboard?
This is an officials error (the scorer is part of the officiating crew) and not a correctable error.

Once notified that a player is still participating after having reached the 5 personal foul threshold, the officials then notify the head coach of the disqualification and the player is removed from the game. All points scored and time consumed stand and play is resumed.
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  #41  
Old 01-10-14, 02:49 PM
NEOHGTI NEOHGTI is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hssportsfan View Post
is this a correctable error? should the points have been taken off the scoreboard?
FWIW, and future reference.....there are only five correctable errors, four of which involve free throws.

- failing to award a merited FT
- awarding an unmerited FT
- permitting the wrong player to attempt a FT
- attempting a FT at the wrong basket
- erroneously counting or canceling a score.

None of which occurred in the situation as described.
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  #42  
Old 01-14-14, 09:37 PM
jdizzle jdizzle is offline
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Floor markings

I just noticed this in college games...what are the two hash marks that are located on the baseline? These are located between the lane and the sideline. Not sure I have ever seen these on a high school court...

Thanks...great thread!
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  #43  
Old 01-15-14, 12:00 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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The hash marks delineate the outside boundaries of the lower defensive box that is used in Women's NCAA Basketball.

It starts at the top of the second free throw lane space and extends three feet to either side of the free throw lane, then down to the end-line. It is an imaginary box that is used for secondary defenders when the restricted area (arc in front of the rim) rules do not apply.
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  #44  
Old 01-18-14, 12:20 PM
Pyrite Pyrite is offline
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possession arrow in team B direction
a jump ball is called on the floor.
as the two players break up the tie up team B player slams the ball to the floor.
a technical foul is called on team B player.
team A awarded two shots and ball out of bounds.
Does the possession arrow change or does the technical cancel out the jump ball?
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  #45  
Old 01-18-14, 12:53 PM
madworld madworld is offline
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Pyrite brought something to my mind with that post. I've seen 4 technicals given for slamming the ball and also at least 6 other occasions where it wasn't called. Some of these were in the same game and after one was called. In one case a coach got t'd up for becoming upset when his player received one but shortly after the opposing player did not. What constitutes a technical when slamming the ball? Strictly ref's discretion?
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  #46  
Old 01-18-14, 01:31 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrite View Post
possession arrow in team B direction
a jump ball is called on the floor.
as the two players break up the tie up team B player slams the ball to the floor.
a technical foul is called on team B player.
team A awarded two shots and ball out of bounds.
Does the possession arrow change or does the technical cancel out the jump ball?
The arrow is not touched after the throw in, because part of the penalty for a technical foul is the ball being awarded to the offended team for a throw in at the division line.

Even if the arrow was in A's direction before the T, the arrow would not change after A put the ball back into play.
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  #47  
Old 01-18-14, 01:35 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madworld View Post
Pyrite brought something to my mind with that post. I've seen 4 technicals given for slamming the ball and also at least 6 other occasions where it wasn't called. Some of these were in the same game and after one was called. In one case a coach got t'd up for becoming upset when his player received one but shortly after the opposing player did not. What constitutes a technical when slamming the ball? Strictly ref's discretion?
Without seeing each specific event, it's hard to say. Generally, that action is going to get you lit up.

Some guys have more tolerance than others. It's all in the eyes of the official.
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  #48  
Old 01-21-14, 06:57 PM
hookshot hookshot is offline
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I'm convinced that the "slapping the backboard" rule(s) are the most misunderstood in all of basketball. Saw refs, announcers, coaches and of course fans get it wrong in three different games this past weekend.
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  #49  
Old 01-21-14, 07:46 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Most fans and fewer announcers have no idea about High School Basketball Rules.

There's no excuse for an official to kick this.

Simply stated, as long as the slap is part of a legitimate attempt to block a shot, the slap is legal.

Just as important, is that no matter how much a backboard shakes/vibrates due to a slap, even if the slap is illegal and results in a technical foul, it is not basket interference and points cannot awarded.
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  #50  
Old 01-21-14, 09:51 PM
hookshot hookshot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Most fans and fewer announcers have no idea about High School Basketball Rules.

There's no excuse for an official to kick this.

Simply stated, as long as the slap is part of a legitimate attempt to block a shot, the slap is legal.

Just as important, is that no matter how much a backboard shakes/vibrates due to a slap, even if the slap is illegal and results in a technical foul, it is not basket interference and points cannot awarded.
Agree. But isn't this rule the same for college? I know not all rules are the same, but I think this one is. If not, please correct me.
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  #51  
Old 01-22-14, 07:37 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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The NCAA rule is quite the opposite of the NFHS Rule.

If a player causes the basket or backboard to vibrate when the ball is on or within the basket or the backboard and/or is on or in the cylinder, basket interference has occurred.

Also different between the two are the goaltending rules. In the NCAA (and NBA) if the ball is contacted above the rim after it hits the backboard, it is a goaltending violation. Under NFHS rules, if the ball hits the backboard and is still on it's upward flight, it can be contacted without violation. (provided it is not within the imaginary basket cylinder)
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  #52  
Old 01-25-14, 12:18 PM
bmss17 bmss17 is offline
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Can someone post the NFHS definition for the act of shooting?
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  #53  
Old 01-25-14, 08:28 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Two situations:

1. Offense is in-bounding the ball. The offensive player is towing the sideline but both feet are still out-of-bounds. He starts to pass it in but holds the ball with his arms extended out onto the court. The defender hits the ball out of his hands. What is the call?

2. Team A is trailing by 4 points with :06 seconds left in the game with the ball. They tell the ref they are going to make a 3-pointer and then intentionally kick the ball for a delay of game. This would be the first offense for delay of game. What is the call in this situation?
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  #54  
Old 01-25-14, 08:56 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmss17 View Post
Can someone post the NFHS definition for the act of shooting?
NFHS Definition - "The act of shooting begins simultaneously with the start of the try or tap. The try starts when a player begins the motion which habitually preceds the release of the ball"


Interpretation
- Ruling that a try (shot) was not being attempted because the player was "on the floor" is incorrect in the sense that a player can begin his throwing motion while on the floor. If the player is fouled after starting his motion, he should be rewarded with two (or one if the goal is successful) free throws. Whether or not he was on the floor is irrelevant. The foul is either prior to or after the throwing motion began.

Last edited by AllSports12; 01-26-14 at 12:06 PM.
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  #55  
Old 01-25-14, 10:16 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
Two situations:

1. Offense is in-bounding the ball. The offensive player is towing the sideline but both feet are still out-of-bounds. He starts to pass it in but holds the ball with his arms extended out onto the court. The defender hits the ball out of his hands. What is the call?

2. Team A is trailing by 4 points with :06 seconds left in the game with the ball. They tell the ref they are going to make a 3-pointer and then intentionally kick the ball for a delay of game. This would be the first offense for delay of game. What is the call in this situation?
Situation #1 -- There is no call as no violation has occurred. The offensive player holding the ball across the throw-in plane makes it available to the defense.

Situation #2 -- A technical foul is assessed to the defensive team. Two free throws awarded to the offensive team along with the ball for a throw-in at the division line. A delay of game warning is also issued with the technical foul. If there was less than 5 seconds you cannot allow the defense to benefit from committing this illegal act.

Last edited by AllSports12; 01-26-14 at 09:03 AM.
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  #56  
Old 01-26-14, 09:03 PM
Pyrite Pyrite is offline
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Great thread! Thanks allsports12. Love the interpretation of actual game situations.
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  #57  
Old 01-28-14, 07:35 PM
JElder JElder is offline
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Team A is shooting the 2nd of 2 FT's....The ball hits the rim and is knocked around with nobody possessing the ball. Player A reaches for the ball and accidentally kicks it in the backcourt, player A then retrieves the ball in the backcourt... last to touch, first to touch....Over and Back or play on?
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  #58  
Old 01-28-14, 08:04 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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On an in-bounds play, is it legal to throw the ball over the backboard?
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  #59  
Old 01-28-14, 11:31 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JElder View Post
Team A is shooting the 2nd of 2 FT's....The ball hits the rim and is knocked around with nobody possessing the ball. Player A reaches for the ball and accidentally kicks it in the backcourt, player A then retrieves the ball in the backcourt... last to touch, first to touch....Over and Back or play on?
Your statement "nobody possessing the ball" means that team control was not established. Absent team control inbounds, you cannot have a backcourt violation.
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  #60  
Old 01-28-14, 11:38 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
On an in-bounds play, is it legal to throw the ball over the backboard?
No, anytime a ball passes over the backboard, front to back / back to front... it is a violation.
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