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  #211  
Old 01-26-17, 09:51 AM
Conan73 Conan73 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeced View Post
CincySoccerPop
I just looked at the brackets for the Ohio Elite tournament and you are in the Top Division of the tournament ?
Looks like there are three groups within the Top Division.
Who you will actually play IDK until the actual schedule comes out.
But you said exactly what GotSoccer Rankings are.
Gotsoccer rankings are extremely misleading and basically serve no purpose other than fueling the ego's of certain parents and coaches.
I know ECNL teams could care less and very rarely play in any gotsoccer events?
Example:With the new Age Group changes teams changed from top to bottom in most cases, but Gotsoccer rankings are still rankings those teams from the past which is now vastly different, so extremely poor ranking system.
I know that bracketing has been a complaint about this tournament in the past. With that said, it can be extremely difficult to ensure that all teams are properly bracket. Someone always gets short changed; especially when you don't have a lot of teams to work with. While not a small showcase, this one is not that big either. I also noticed the absence of Cincinnati teams. That's interesting. As an aside, I've always thought that this was a peculiar time to host an outdoor college showcase. There have been some years where the tournament had to be cancelled because of snow. In other years, the girls are playing in less than ideal cold weather conditions; thereby effecting the quality of play. Maybe this is why they can't get any Cinci teams
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  #212  
Old 01-26-17, 10:34 AM
CincysoccerPOP CincysoccerPOP is offline
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The point was not if they are in the top bracket or not but that if previous years schedules hold true you only play the teams in your group, Gold, Navy and Orange. So why place a local top team in a group where they do not get to play your ECNL team?
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  #213  
Old 01-26-17, 12:18 PM
Hoosier Parent Hoosier Parent is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CincysoccerPOP View Post
The point was not if they are in the top bracket or not but that if previous years schedules hold true you only play the teams in your group, Gold, Navy and Orange. So why place a local top team in a group where they do not get to play your ECNL team?
Would have like to see the ECNL-NL matchup. The 01 OE team did play 00 FC Pride (IN) in a friendly a the beginning of the season. Pride scored 2 in the first 5 minutes against a defense that had never played together. After that OE settled down, controlled possession, and outscored Pride 2-0.

But it's preseason. OE was missing 2 or 3 starters, had a back line that had never played together (New Team/ 6 are holdovers from last year's U15 team), and Pride had lost their top player Abigal Isger (Butler Commit) to the Indy Fire ECNL.

I think the OE parents were looking forward to that matchup as the TFA compares strongly against the CUP Gold team.
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  #214  
Old 01-27-17, 09:32 AM
buckshooter5 buckshooter5 is offline
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One thing to think about is the bigger the showcase the less coaches get to see your kid play ?

For example: a showcase(CASL) that features over 460 girls teams all playing three games = 1380 games in three days at 19 different venues.

The question becomes how many college coaches actually saw your game ?

Why do you go to a college showcase , Why do they call it a college showcase ?
Exactly to be seen by the college coaches !
This is what your parents have been paying for the last 10 years to get out in front of the college coach !

The Fee to play at this tournament is very expensive, again somebody is making a lot of money.


Most college showcases have become a money grab especially when you have 19 different venues ? Which one do we go to , hopefully your team is not the one that is at the local middle school 60 miles away from the main venue.

This all speaks for itself, common sense !
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  #215  
Old 01-27-17, 09:49 AM
Conan73 Conan73 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckshooter5 View Post
One thing to think about is the bigger the showcase the less coaches get to see your kid play ?

For example: a showcase(CASL) that features over 460 girls teams all playing three games = 1380 games in three days at 19 different venues.

The question becomes how many college coaches actually saw your game ?

Why do you go to a college showcase , Why do they call it a college showcase ?
Exactly to be seen by the college coaches !
This is what your parents have been paying for the last 10 years to get out in front of the college coach !

The Fee to play at this tournament is very expensive, again somebody is making a lot of money.


Most college showcases have become a money grab especially when you have 19 different venues ? Which one do we go to , hopefully your team is not the one that is at the local middle school 60 miles away from the main venue.

This all speaks for itself, common sense !
I begged to differ. Most college soccer coaches have a limited recruiting budget and a small coaching/recruiting staff. They may only have a head coach, an assistant, and a volunteer assistant (if they're lucky). Therefore, they cannot afford to go to all of the various league games (ECNL, MRL, etc) and all of the various showcase tournaments. They have personally told me that big tournaments like CASL are helpful.

Generally, with the big tournaments, the question is how are the fields/games laid out. Are the games all in one location or are they spread out over several locations. CASL has both. They have a large complex with around 30 fields. The coaches like to hang out there so that they see a lot of games. The games that are at satellite locations don't get the visibility.

With that said, the players need to do work. Go to the ID camps to get notice. From there, the coaches will go see you if they like you. Do other things to get on their radar as well.
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  #216  
Old 01-27-17, 09:54 AM
buckshooter5 buckshooter5 is offline
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That being the case then why have 19 different locations ?

Just have ONE so the college coaches can stay and watch games at the one location.

Because it is not about Quality ! it is about making Money !
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  #217  
Old 01-27-17, 02:35 PM
outsideobserver11 outsideobserver11 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckshooter5 View Post
That being the case then why have 19 different locations ?

Just have ONE so the college coaches can stay and watch games at the one location.

Because it is not about Quality ! it is about making Money !
I think it's a little bit of both. Usually the "showcase" teams are put at the main complex, and the less thought of teams are put at the satellite locations. Which means if you aren't at the big complex then you know what the host thinks of you and they just want your money.

What is considered the "main" complex for the OE Showcase?
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  #218  
Old 01-27-17, 05:10 PM
Juan Pelota Juan Pelota is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outsideobserver11 View Post
I think it's a little bit of both. Usually the "showcase" teams are put at the main complex, and the less thought of teams are put at the satellite locations. Which means if you aren't at the big complex then you know what the host thinks of you and they just want your money.

What is considered the "main" complex for the OE Showcase?
The main complex that oe uses for the showcase is riverside. they farm teams out to satellite locations also. unless you're at riverside, you aren't getting full exposure.

All clubs do the same thing with their own tournaments. kha, cup, whomever. they take care of their own first. this isn't unique.

I agree with sebby's point about the quality of the oe field. It's not the same as it has been in the past.
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  #219  
Old 01-27-17, 05:31 PM
Hoosier Parent Hoosier Parent is offline
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The 00 Bracket has at least 4 National league teams, 1 ECNL team, a couple of Premier 1 and 2 teams.
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  #220  
Old 01-30-17, 12:45 PM
FedX FedX is offline
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Folks need to realize that local showcases support the local colleges.
So getting teams to come from far away to play is not attractive or productive.

It is a two way street when it comes to tournaments.
It is obvious that Cup, KHA & OE have no interest in playing each other locally, or they would.

Cup, KHA could sign up for the OE showcase , but OE could sign up for the Cup, KHA showcases, no one does ?

Most girls are looking to stay close to home and it is cheaper at most schools to play within the state you live.
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  #221  
Old 01-30-17, 01:17 PM
Conan73 Conan73 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FedX View Post
Folks need to realize that local showcases support the local colleges.
So getting teams to come from far away to play is not attractive or productive.

It is a two way street when it comes to tournaments.
It is obvious that Cup, KHA & OE have no interest in playing each other locally, or they would.

Cup, KHA could sign up for the OE showcase , but OE could sign up for the Cup, KHA showcases, no one does ?

Most girls are looking to stay close to home and it is cheaper at most schools to play within the state you live.
If you're running a showcase tournament, you'd like teams from far away to show up. That's what makes them attractive to college coaches. They get to so kids from outside their area without having to travel to go see them. Also, when you look at the accepted coaches to the showcases (OE, Blue Chip, Gateway), they have coaches attending from beyond the Cinci area.

I don't know if OE and KHA and CUP want to play each other or not. The reality is that OE plays in the ECNL and KHA and CUP play US Soccer. CUP and KHA teams play each other all the time if they are in the same MRL division or National league and State Cup.

The only way that OE would play KHA or CUP is if OEA went to the same college showcase tournaments and the teams were lucky enough to be matched up. OE doesn't play in any outside showcases. They stick to ECNL, with the exception of their February showcase tournament. So, OE would have to invite KHA and CUP to play in their tournament. They would then have to schedule their teams to play KHA and CUP. I think that in some years they have played KHA and/or CUP. But its unreasonable to expect that all the time.

Lastly, February tournaments in Cincinnati are not attractive. It's cold, and the tournament is not reliable in terms of weather cancellations. So, it's not surprising that Cinci turnout is low.
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  #222  
Old 01-30-17, 01:37 PM
Hoosier Parent Hoosier Parent is offline
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I'm not sure what everyone is expecting in terms of what the OE Spring tournament is. There are at least 4 National League Teams in the U17 Bracket, and 3 or 4 ECNL teams in the U18/19 bracket.

I really don't have time to look much more than that but while it may not be the Mead Cup of Old (Dayton Roots), it's seems to field pretty competitive top tiers, other than the lack of grouping of National league and ECNL teams in the U16 bracket.
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  #223  
Old 01-30-17, 02:50 PM
Empty CUP Empty CUP is offline
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The weather has had a big impact on distance teams traveling. To some of these tournaments. The OE tourney was cancelled 2 years ago due to weather. Last year was cold and the weather threatened. It's an early tourney, and with the current economy many clubs don't want to risk it for their parents and players to travel. And it is what it is on recruiters, at satellite locations. A friends daughter was playing at Turpin last year and got her initial contact and eventual offer after they watched her there, and another was at 7 hills and get her offer started after she was seen there. One D1 another DII.
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  #224  
Old 01-31-17, 10:38 AM
outsideobserver11 outsideobserver11 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty CUP View Post
The weather has had a big impact on distance teams traveling. To some of these tournaments. The OE tourney was cancelled 2 years ago due to weather. Last year was cold and the weather threatened. It's an early tourney, and with the current economy many clubs don't want to risk it for their parents and players to travel. And it is what it is on recruiters, at satellite locations. A friends daughter was playing at Turpin last year and got her initial contact and eventual offer after they watched her there, and another was at 7 hills and get her offer started after she was seen there. One D1 another DII.
The boys weekend was cold last year, girls weekend was unseasonably warm on Friday/Saturday and then Sunday was miserable. The problem is, there is on way of predicting this when applying for the showcase so I'm sure a fair amount take the safe option and find another showcase.
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  #225  
Old 02-01-17, 02:59 PM
Rohbino Rohbino is offline
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On Soccer Wire yesterday -

Games & Thrones: ECNL vs. Girls DA cold war rages
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  #226  
Old 02-02-17, 09:43 AM
Hoosier Parent Hoosier Parent is offline
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Interesting article. I think first year goes to ECNL. Several CUP and KHA families are reaching out to or attending OE practices. Some because they aren't interested in DA and some covering their bets for next year.

OE teams like the 00's which lack depth, are gonna get an influx of talent.

Similar thing is happening in Indy where Indy Fire Jr's are scrambling for players at some age groups and FC Pride is seeing an influx in talent as the get ready to take IFJ's place in the Indy ECNL Market.

I don't hear a lot of families saying they want a shot at the National team
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  #227  
Old 02-02-17, 11:12 AM
sportsfanofyear sportsfanofyear is offline
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Boys DA started in 2007. In 2012, Boys DA restricted/eliminated High School soccer. Using the attached chart from ESPN the Magazine, explain the success of this program with respect to the USA Men's National Team.

Click image for larger version

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Will the Girls DA produce a similarly terrible result?
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  #228  
Old 02-02-17, 12:37 PM
Empty CUP Empty CUP is offline
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Probably.
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  #229  
Old 02-02-17, 12:46 PM
coachg coachg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier Parent View Post
Interesting article. I think first year goes to ECNL. Several CUP and KHA families are reaching out to or attending OE practices. Some because they aren't interested in DA and some covering their bets for next year.

OE teams like the 00's which lack depth, are gonna get an influx of talent.

Similar thing is happening in Indy where Indy Fire Jr's are scrambling for players at some age groups and FC Pride is seeing an influx in talent as the get ready to take IFJ's place in the Indy ECNL Market.

I don't hear a lot of families saying they want a shot at the National team
Its a two way street with players from both sides covering their bases.
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  #230  
Old 02-02-17, 01:19 PM
2731 2731 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsfanofyear View Post
Boys DA started in 2007. In 2012, Boys DA restricted/eliminated High School soccer. Using the attached chart from ESPN the Magazine, explain the success of this program with respect to the USA Men's National Team.

Attachment 1444

Will the Girls DA produce a similarly terrible result?
If the ladies get Bob Bradley as a coach they will experience similar results yes. This chart says nothing about the DA program.
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  #231  
Old 02-02-17, 02:50 PM
sportsfanofyear sportsfanofyear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2731 View Post
This chart says nothing about the DA program.
If the main mission of DA is to develop world-class players and a top Men's National Team, the chart shows that since the DA's existence and the addition of its high school exclusion rule, the Men's National Team has actually gone backwards.

Is that directly due to boys DA? The chart shows a correlation that is plausible, if not probable.

Will Girls DA be able to maintain the USA's #1 Women's ranking? Since the rankings began in 2003, the USA and Germany have held the 2 top spots. The United States holds the record for the longest period being ranked first: almost 7 years, from March 2008 to December 2014. Germany was ranked #1 for half of 2015 and the USA regained the top spot ever since. If the USA Women's Team slips in four years, won't that be an indictment of DA and other USSF youth policies?

Personally, I think the idiots running USSF have made changes in Youth programs that are taking everything backwards because they want to follow European formats (ex. birth year) instead of using and enhancing the advantages that the USA has (ex. high school and college facilities & funds). Why? My guess is so they can enrich the club owners.
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  #232  
Old 02-02-17, 02:59 PM
2731 2731 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsfanofyear View Post
If the main mission of DA is to develop world-class players and a top Men's National Team, the chart shows that since the DA's existence and the addition of its high school exclusion rule, the Men's National Team has actually gone backwards.

Is that directly due to boys DA? The chart shows a correlation that is plausible, if not probable.

Will Girls DA be able to maintain the USA's #1 Women's ranking? Since the rankings began in 2003, the USA and Germany have held the 2 top spots. The United States holds the record for the longest period being ranked first: almost 7 years, from March 2008 to December 2014. Germany was ranked #1 for half of 2015 and the USA regained the top spot ever since. If the USA Women's Team slips in four years, won't that be an indictment of DA and other USSF youth policies?

Personally, I think the idiots running USSF have made changes in Youth programs that are taking everything backwards because they want to follow European formats (ex. birth year) instead of using and enhancing the advantages that the USA has (ex. high school and college facilities & funds). Why? My guess is so they can enrich the club owners.
Equality in other countries has more to do with the Women's National team success than anything. That tide is turning, wanna see their current direction? check the Olympics and the DA's haven't even been established yet. I'm sure you'll have a nice scapegoat though.

As for the DA system being a "plausible explanation" for the Men's senior team results? Check the roster and the average age of starter versus how old an academy player would be... It's not even close to plausible. Klinsmann pulled from Europe and Got the highest ranking for a moment. Then they got old and came back to the MLS to further dull their skills.

IF we were to play a roster of former academy players (the oldest inaugural 15yo is now just 25) I wonder what that chart would look like in 5-10 years. It's never been done. Your conclusion has no evidence to support it.
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  #233  
Old 02-03-17, 09:53 AM
Empty CUP Empty CUP is offline
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The conclusion has plenty of evidence to support it. If these DA boys were the best they would be on the team, I mean USSF always does what it says its going to do and place the best players on the teams right. They are going to pull the DA boys to play on the national team? I mean that's the promise right? OR what they have are the best players available and the best players are on the team and they are THAT much better than the DA boys, and they are still just not a good team.

Women's side has 15 girls under 25 meaning they could be FULL fledged DA members had they been on the boys side. And that's not including Pugh.

If the DA boys were the best they would be filling the men's roster. OR the USSF is full of S*&%. Either way it looks bad.
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  #234  
Old 02-03-17, 10:18 AM
werns63 werns63 is offline
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To many of the best players in Cincy, like playing on their HS team. They like the ECNL route since they can get the college exposure, play at a high level and still play under the lights for their school. Nothing will change there. The DA team still won't consist of the best of the best.
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  #235  
Old 02-03-17, 10:34 AM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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In the end, there's not going to be a "best of the best" for kids in American with any sport. There are so many avenues for them to develop and choose. That's fine. It's okay there's an alternative to ECNL. It's okay there's alternatives to HS. There's kids that want more than HS. There's kids that love HS.

It all works out. Kids and families will have decisions to make. And, that's fine too because they'll have decisions their whole lives. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
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  #236  
Old 02-03-17, 11:52 AM
CitrusCrunch CitrusCrunch is offline
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what would be nice would be some from the da on here to answer questions
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  #237  
Old 02-03-17, 03:34 PM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebbyb View Post
The top 20 boys in the country are playing for the U17 USMNT in the residency program at IMG in Bradenton. They attend school and have access to world class facilities, all free of charge. None of these kids or their parents are thinking about playing in front of 200 people at the local HS.

Residency Program http://www.ussoccer.com/us-under17-m...team/residency

U17USMNT Results
http://www.ussoccer.com/us-under17-m...lts-statistics
While you say they are "the top 20 boys," there are many that argue they are not. The IMG residency program isn't what it used to be before the boys DA system hit. There's also many US-eligible players worldwide.

IMG is just a political as any other entity in the country. And, the U17s don't always reside at IMG, roster here: http://www.ussoccer.com/us-under17-m...t-roster#tab-1
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  #238  
Old 02-03-17, 08:25 PM
2731 2731 is offline
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Originally Posted by sebbyb View Post
Ahhhhh the other shoe. Right on que. Good ages to start at too. This will be excellent for Cincinnati soccer and this little chunk of tri-state too.
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  #239  
Old 02-07-17, 12:25 PM
SuperSoccerFan555 SuperSoccerFan555 is offline
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Who will be coaching each age group within the DA?
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  #240  
Old 02-07-17, 03:03 PM
CitrusCrunch CitrusCrunch is offline
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555 no one from the club on here so might wanna look elsewhere for answers not much to be found
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