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  #211  
Old 03-11-18, 04:05 PM
Hayden Fox Hayden Fox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satriani View Post
Garbage comment. Many talented teams across the state have not won the championship before. Look at this year's tournament. "So good their coach couldn't even stop them" is an idiotic comment.


Sonny Johnson and Garfield Heights with 4 D1 players says hello. Love it irks some on this board that Debevec is the best coach in the league and myth of Tommy McBride crumbles

Vaudrin is one of the best D2 players in the country and could have played D1 but McBride has no talent. He won it watered down districts but when it came time to play in the big boy district that was blended his team fell apart
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  #212  
Old 03-11-18, 04:20 PM
Mackinbiner Mackinbiner is offline
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Debevec is now 146-35 in his seven years with three District Championships and one State Championship.
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  #213  
Old 03-11-18, 04:41 PM
nd31 miami 30 nd31 miami 30 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayden Fox View Post
Sonny Johnson and Garfield Heights with 4 D1 players says hello. Love it irks some on this board that Debevec is the best coach in the league and myth of Tommy McBride crumbles

Vaudrin is one of the best D2 players in the country and could have played D1 but McBride has no talent. He won it watered down districts but when it came time to play in the big boy district that was blended his team fell apart
This was one of the worst D1 districts in the state. Cannot say McBride won watered down districts w/o saying the same for Debevec. The guy has lost some inexplicable games. Medina being the biggest one. If he wouldnít have won state last year, would he still have a job?
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  #214  
Old 03-11-18, 05:57 PM
satriani satriani is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd31 miami 30 View Post
This was one of the worst D1 districts in the state. Cannot say McBride won watered down districts w/o saying the same for Debevec. The guy has lost some inexplicable games. Medina being the biggest one. If he wouldnít have won state last year, would he still have a job?


Fair comments. I would agree there were tougher districts this year (I donít know if it was the worst district though). Fair comment re: watered down Districts McBride won in the past. Canít have it both ways. Fair point ND. Switch this yearís District winner to Lake though. Would that be perceived as another coaching masterpiece by McBride or as something else?

With respect to Medina game I donít know how you could think that was an inexplicable loss. Medina had several college players on that roster including a 7 footer going against Logan and Kyle as sophomores. Not a gimme game by any stretch.

Obviously your last point canít be proven one way or another. I think clearly pressure was felt by the staff but not sure how much was real vs perceived. The results are what they are however.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  #215  
Old 03-11-18, 10:51 PM
Purple Hayes Purple Hayes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd31 miami 30 View Post
There is no way you can say Debevec is a better coach than McBride imho. Lake almost none and yet McBride still manages to win a district title from time to time.
Why does everyone think Lake has no talent?? This is the oldest pro-McBride argument in the book, but I saw plenty of material out there on the floor at Lake over the past several years. But if you want to stick with the "no talent" argument, then part of it is that his own fault...maybe his boring style doesn't attract kids to play?
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  #216  
Old 03-11-18, 10:53 PM
Purple Hayes Purple Hayes is offline
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Originally Posted by BigBulldog View Post
Thank you.McKinley lost to you by 3 and 4 points.The Pups have 3 Freshmen on the JV team.

McKinley's JV other loses were to Iggy's undefeated team(At the time) by 4 points and SVSM in OT.

Most of the Pups wins were by blow-out.

The Bulldogs future is looking bright.Oh,and of course we have a freshmen starting on Varsity.
Awesome, because if you plan to rely on a bunch of Sophomores next year, I like Jackson's chances to repeat the sweep
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  #217  
Old 03-11-18, 11:01 PM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Did Larry Taylor get technicals when he was chucking chairs across the court? Or are we just in kinder and gentler times now?
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  #218  
Old 03-12-18, 06:27 AM
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BigBulldog BigBulldog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Hayes View Post
Awesome, because if you plan to rely on a bunch of Sophomores next year, I like Jackson's chances to repeat the sweep
We return 1 starter and 3 lettermen.I admit that doesn't look so hot.And yes we will have to rely on alot of sophmore's.

But I'm sure we have some junior's who can help out all those Sophomore's.At least i hope so.

But the bottom line is we will have to wait a couple year's until were pretty good.So your right.
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  #219  
Old 03-12-18, 08:02 AM
Localfan Localfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satriani View Post
Talent doesn't just 'happen', you grow it and nurture it from the youth level to varsity. The players that have come through Jackson basketball recently became who they are because of the youth program, invested parents who helped them with camps and training opportunities, a coaching staff that demands players to commit to the program and an administration that supports the basketball program. Most importantly, the players themselves wanted to get better and were willing to put in the time and effort to do that. It's a suburban public school that knows it can't match up athlete to athlete with other schools but puts itself in the best position to compete by having fundamentally sound players who play as a team/unit and commits to good team defense. That's not to say they execute perfectly every game but that's the style of play that is necessary for teams like Jackson to win. In many ways, I think Mentor is a very good comparison.

There are far more individually talented teams that will be sitting home this week and Jackson is still playing. Debevec and his staff have something to do with that...
I agree! They don't have outstandingly great talented kids they just have a system and its working for them right now. But put a shot clock into play and it will change the game.
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  #220  
Old 03-12-18, 08:04 AM
Localfan Localfan is offline
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Originally Posted by Purple Hayes View Post
Awesome, because if you plan to rely on a bunch of Sophomores next year, I like Jackson's chances to repeat the sweep
Jackson's freshman lost to McKinley's
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  #221  
Old 03-12-18, 08:09 AM
Stark Born & Bred Stark Born & Bred is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Hayes View Post
Why does everyone think Lake has no talent?? This is the oldest pro-McBride argument in the book, but I saw plenty of material out there on the floor at Lake over the past several years. But if you want to stick with the "no talent" argument, then part of it is that his own fault...maybe his boring style doesn't attract kids to play?
Amen. When he has no talent, he did not win many games, when his kids were average, he went .500. When he had a lot of talent, he wins 20 games and went to regionals. Obviously, there are years he has won a few more than he should or lost a few more than he should but it has always seemed reasonable for the talent on the floor. I do not believe he is a coaching wizard who gets water from a rock season after season. His program is very typical of nearly every other high school program . . . talent has equaled wins, lesser talent has equaled fewer wins. There is a nearly two decade sample size to back that up.

That said, this season, I think he got wins (like the one against Jackson) in a number that slightly exceeded the talent level on the floor. However, I also think that basketball in Stark County and the area, generally, was down which let the better teams (and Lake was one of them) get a little healthier in the win column.
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  #222  
Old 03-12-18, 08:17 AM
Stark Born & Bred Stark Born & Bred is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd31 miami 30 View Post
There is no way you can say Debevec is a better coach than McBride imho. Jackson has had a ton of talent; including last yearís team. All Debevec did last year was not screw it up. Lake almost none and yet McBride still manages to win a district title from time to time.
A team having talent does not automatically mean that their coach is inferior. It can be very difficult to coach a talented team and some of the better coaches in the area have struggled when they have a really talented team because they cannot seem to get away from whatever "system" they employed to keep things close when they lacked some of that talent in other seasons.

I think Debevec is an outstanding coach and I would have thought so if he won that state title or not.
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  #223  
Old 03-12-18, 08:22 AM
Stark Born & Bred Stark Born & Bred is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayden Fox View Post
You look at where Jackson was after their loss to GlenOak & Green and where they are now and it proves IMO Debevec is the best coach in the league. Not many people expected Jackson to be back in this spot but here they are. What you have to love about Debevec is unlike another coach in the league he always gives credit to his players and talks them up-never talking them down to prop himself up.

Creamer at CCC does the same thing. Both great coaches who always put their players first ahead of their own egos. Fun teams to watch
I agree that Creamer puts his kids first and, for as old-school and in-your-face as he is during games and during practices, the kids seems to really enjoy playing for him and don't ever seem ready for the season to be over.

That said, having watched Central play 15 or so times this season and watching their poor shooting and constant struggle to score 40 points on several occasions, this is NOT a fun team to watch.
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  #224  
Old 03-12-18, 08:25 AM
Localfan Localfan is offline
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They way you all say Talented is just mind boggling... Most of the kids in the federal league are good skilled players very few are actually "Talented" or have natural abilities. They are just skilled and trained. Or even better more athletically inclined than some.
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  #225  
Old 03-12-18, 08:41 AM
Mr. General Mr. General is offline
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What was the deal with Larry Taylor not being coach at Jackson in the past? Did parents get too soft on his coaching style and techniques? Always respected Coach Taylor and the results he got.
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  #226  
Old 03-12-18, 10:29 AM
Mackinbiner Mackinbiner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stark Born & Bred View Post
Amen. When he has no talent, he did not win many games, when his kids were average, he went .500. When he had a lot of talent, he wins 20 games and went to regionals. Obviously, there are years he has won a few more than he should or lost a few more than he should but it has always seemed reasonable for the talent on the floor. I do not believe he is a coaching wizard who gets water from a rock season after season. His program is very typical of nearly every other high school program . . . talent has equaled wins, lesser talent has equaled fewer wins. There is a nearly two decade sample size to back that up.

That said, this season, I think he got wins (like the one against Jackson) in a number that slightly exceeded the talent level on the floor. However, I also think that basketball in Stark County and the area, generally, was down which let the better teams (and Lake was one of them) get a little healthier in the win column.
Does anyone know McBride's career record at Lake?
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  #227  
Old 03-12-18, 01:01 PM
Stark Born & Bred Stark Born & Bred is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. General View Post
What was the deal with Larry Taylor not being coach at Jackson in the past? Did parents get too soft on his coaching style and techniques? Always respected Coach Taylor and the results he got.
The rumor was always that some parents liked him too much resulting in his dismissal.

That said, I think it came down to his general attitude. Coaches can have that demeanor and attitude when they are winning all of the time but the minute there is a chink in your armor, people -- parents and administrators both -- will pounce and look for every reason to get rid of you.

I would assume that the Jackson posters could speak to your questions with more accuracy,
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  #228  
Old 03-12-18, 02:00 PM
afwpatfire afwpatfire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackinbiner View Post
Does anyone know McBride's career record at Lake?
Iíll have to get back to you later on that. I know we went through this last year and I posted something.

Its pretty good, despite him being around .500 for the beginning of his career.
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  #229  
Old 03-12-18, 02:21 PM
Mackinbiner Mackinbiner is offline
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Originally Posted by afwpatfire View Post
Iíll have to get back to you later on that. I know we went through this last year and I posted something.

Its pretty good, despite him being around .500 for the beginning of his career.
Thanks for jogging my memory. I found this post of yours below in a thread about Federal League head coaches from January of 2017. http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298417

Quote:
Originally Posted by afwpatfire View Post
From my calculation McBride is 248-148 including this year.

Looking at the stretches they had before that, looks quite impressive.
So he's probably around 275-155 now. I'd consider that way above "average."
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  #230  
Old 03-12-18, 02:34 PM
y2h y2h is offline
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Hairston should've gotten a T for throwing his jacket.
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  #231  
Old 03-12-18, 04:44 PM
afwpatfire afwpatfire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackinbiner View Post
Thanks for jogging my memory. I found this post of yours below in a thread about Federal League head coaches from January of 2017. http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298417



So he's probably around 275-155 now. I'd consider that way above "average."
McBride is 280-157 in his 19 years at Lake.

He is 137-38 in his last 7 years (to compare to the above Debevec stat).
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  #232  
Old 03-12-18, 07:13 PM
Purple Hayes Purple Hayes is offline
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Originally Posted by BigBulldog View Post
We return 1 starter and 3 lettermen.I admit that doesn't look so hot.And yes we will have to rely on alot of sophmore's.

But I'm sure we have some junior's who can help out all those Sophomore's.At least i hope so.

But the bottom line is we will have to wait a couple year's until were pretty good.So your right.
I'm not gonna let you sandbag that much, BB! Nobody EVER looks past McK! It looks like you'll have a different coach next year, so that could be good or bad. Sorry to hear about Hairston as it seemed he fulfilled a lot more roles than just "coach" and seemed like he was a good dude that really cared about kids in the game of life. I just hope it wasn't due to the emotions of the outcome of Saturday's game
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  #233  
Old 03-12-18, 10:14 PM
FootsWalker FootsWalker is offline
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Originally Posted by Purple Hayes View Post
I'm not gonna let you sandbag that much, BB! Nobody EVER looks past McK! It looks like you'll have a different coach next year, so that could be good or bad. Sorry to hear about Hairston as it seemed he fulfilled a lot more roles than just "coach" and seemed like he was a good dude that really cared about kids in the game of life. I just hope it wasn't due to the emotions of the outcome of Saturday's game
In reading Weir's article it sounds like dealing with parents was the likely reason for him hanging them up.
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  #234  
Old 03-13-18, 06:20 AM
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just a fan just a fan is offline
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Originally Posted by Purple Hayes View Post
Awesome, because if you plan to rely on a bunch of Sophomores next year, I like Jackson's chances to repeat the sweep
The last time McKinley relied on a talented group of sophomores, they went to the final four....they went on to win state championships as juniors and seniors. Just saying.
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