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  #31  
Old 05-29-19, 10:35 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
I agree the Soviet's simply had so much more manpower that they overwhelmed the German's who were fighting on two fronts. Tough SOB's nonetheless.

It was interesting that they showed Soviet's climbing the stack to put the Soviet flag on top. As if some sort of badge of honor amongst them as the worst nuclear disaster is beneath them. Very symbolic if almost tongue in cheek.
We'd have done the same and have. 9/11 was an intelligence failure beyond compare. People covering azzes. Recall, this wasn't the first attack on the WTC.

The flag is one of the iconic scenes from that disaster. We take it as a celebration of those that gave their lives, regardless the entirety of how it came about because the alternative is to dwell on the hypocrisy. There's no good to come from that.

Those trying to spin this show into some sort of statement of what can happen under one political system over their ideal are exactly those that cover their azzes. Its a show about power structure and what people will do to retain their place in it, regardless the name or ideals behind the structure. It's a show about the sacrifices others have to make, willingly and unwillingly, knowingly and not in order to make up for those weak people that have found their path to power.
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  #32  
Old 05-29-19, 01:28 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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I'm not spinning anything. Regardless of who knew what a flag hanging on ruble at WTC is FAR different than having men risk their lives through exposure to hang a Soviet flag over the pile of ruble of a nuclear meltdown & explosion. I just mentioned that it was very, eh, symbolic. Small victories matter to those who fight them. As with any system those at the bottom are treated darn near the same.
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  #33  
Old 05-29-19, 03:18 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Well, you did provide your interpretation. I think that's also known as "spinning," no? No objection to your spin either. Just thought it was incomplete from my view. So I added.
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  #34  
Old 05-29-19, 03:28 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post

Those trying to spin this show into some sort of statement of what can happen under one political system over their ideal are exactly those that cover their azzes. Its a show about power structure and what people will do to retain their place in it, regardless the name or ideals behind the structure. It's a show about the sacrifices others have to make, willingly and unwillingly, knowingly and not in order to make up for those weak people that have found their path to power.
I disagree. The Soviet Socialist system created a special kind of CYA. It resulted in a level of self-delusion and lies that even in the face of disaster could not be overcome. For many of the apparatchiks depicted in this show it isn't their place in the power structure that seems so important - it's what others will think of the power structure should the full truth get out.

This show is almost entirely about the perils of communism and I applaud it's makers for going against the grain to honestly present this political system in all its dehumanizing glory. In fact the show seems to presage the coming collapse of the Soviet Union under it's enormous pile of lies. It's a story about a bureaucracy run amok.
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  #35  
Old 05-29-19, 03:38 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
I don't think the Russians could have beat the Germans without Stalin's complete indifference to the suffering and deaths of the Russian people and his willingness to murder them if they did not agree to sacrifice their lives.
I don't know, Stalin's purge of the military in 1936 depleted the officer corps to the point where it was unable to effectively resist the Germans in 1941. Russian troops were led by a very inexperienced group of officers at the start of the war.

Stalin also went incognito the first week of the invasion when he was needed the most to clarify the Russians military response in the face of attack. This lost the Soviet's a lot of troops & equipment. Had they fallen back in order, similar to the tactic the Czar's employed against Napoleon, and allowed the Russian vastness to swallow up the Germans the Nazis may never have gotten to the gates of Moscow. Instead Stalin's orders to hold position at all cost resulted in millions of Russian soldiers gtting killed or captured in huge encirclement's.

Sure his ruthlessness helped stiffen Russian resistance but in some ways it was Stalin tapping into the Russians patriotic & even religious fervor to protect the Motherland, rather then appeal to socialist ideals, that helped them hold out in 1941/42.
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  #36  
Old 05-29-19, 05:13 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest

Those trying to spin this show into some sort of statement of what can happen under one political system over their ideal are exactly those that cover their azzes. Its a show about power structure and what people will do to retain their place in it, regardless the name or ideals behind the structure. It's a show about the sacrifices others have to make, willingly and unwillingly, knowingly and not in order to make up for those weak people that have found their path to power.
I disagree.
Whew, for a second I thought I might have been wrong.


I didn't need to read past your first few words betting I can guess the rest. You quote one of your dogma textbooks, instead of say, basing your view on a real life experience then ultimately say the same thing as the person with whom you "disagree," hoping no one would notice. That's your usual schtick when quote responding.
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  #37  
Old 05-29-19, 07:48 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Whew, for a second I thought I might have been wrong.


I didn't need to read past your first few words betting I can guess the rest. You quote one of your dogma textbooks, instead of say, basing your view on a real life experience then ultimately say the same thing as the person with whom you "disagree," hoping no one would notice. That's your usual schtick when quote responding.
Maybe if you had read all of my post you would see that I'm not in agreement with what you posted. This show is aimed squarely at Soviet style socialism. You imply it's just aimed at power structures in general.

And what the hell do you mean by saying I should base my views on "real life experiences"? I've never lived in the Soviet Union nor have I ever lived in a communist totalitarian society - though I have visited California. Bottom line is that I freely admit I've never had a real life experience involving the stifling and murderous socialist power structure depicted in Chernobyl. Should I assume you have?
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  #38  
Old 05-30-19, 08:28 AM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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So, how 'bout that Chernobyl series?

I'd prefer to watch it and enjoy it as "here's what happened at Chernobyl."

I am way behind in watching it. I just watched episode 2 last night that ended with those poor bastards searching for the valves when all of their flashlights go out. Holy smokes, what a chilling scene.
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  #39  
Old 05-30-19, 08:52 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by clarkgriswold View Post
So, how 'bout that Chernobyl series?

I'd prefer to watch it and enjoy it as "here's what happened at Chernobyl."

I am way behind in watching it. I just watched episode 2 last night that ended with those poor bastards searching for the valves when all of their flashlights go out. Holy smokes, what a chilling scene.
That is a great scene and shows just how good the director of this series has been. I also love the way they use the Geiger counter sound to illustrate increasing deadly radiation. Their ability to ratchet up the tension when characters face off against a threat that is unseen has been brilliantly done.
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  #40  
Old 05-30-19, 12:12 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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By the way, the head miner is a hoot.
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  #41  
Old 05-30-19, 01:25 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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was (I imagine)


I've finished four. I think all that time in the hospital watching people melt, Ulana is going to crack, fly in with her dragon and waste the entire KGB and the Military Industrial Complex and take over the three remaining plants unless Gorby knifes her first.


It's the accents. I'll hear a familiar one and get thrown back into GOT. This is two popular series written by Americans and acted by Brits. ? I suppose it makes it seem more "foreign," at least to us and it's better than a bunch of bad Slavic accents but anyone know the story behind how these two shows ended up British?
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  #42  
Old 05-30-19, 01:28 PM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
was (I imagine)


I've finished four. I think all that time in the hospital watching people melt, Ulana is going to crack, fly in with her dragon and waste the entire KGB and the Military Industrial Complex and take over the three remaining plants unless Gorby knifes her first.


It's the accents. I'll hear a familiar one and get thrown back into GOT. This is two popular series written by Americans and acted by Brits. ? I suppose it makes it seem more "foreign," at least to us and it's better than a bunch of bad Slavic accents but anyone know the story behind how these two shows ended up British?
The only down side in the series is the difference in the accents with some of the actors hitting on the Russian/Eastern European thing while others appear to make no effort.
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  #43  
Old 05-30-19, 01:29 PM
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It's a joint Sky (UK) and HBO show. Written by an American and directed by a Swede
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  #44  
Old 05-30-19, 07:18 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post

It's the accents. I'll hear a familiar one and get thrown back into GOT. This is two popular series written by Americans and acted by Brits. ? I suppose it makes it seem more "foreign," at least to us and it's better than a bunch of bad Slavic accents but anyone know the story behind how these two shows ended up British?
It's like back in the day when the Romans in all those sword & sandals biblical epics of the 1950's/1960's spoke with British accents.
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  #45  
Old 05-30-19, 10:28 PM
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I prefer it to bad Russian accents
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  #46  
Old 05-31-19, 10:07 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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I prefer it to bad Russian accents

Me too. It's the timing with the GOT that's throwing me. Now I'm binging 3rd season Man in the High Tower where Japanese sound like Japanese, Germans like Germans and Americans like 'Mericans. As it should be.
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  #47  
Old 06-03-19, 05:09 PM
OhioBobcatFan06 OhioBobcatFan06 is offline
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https://www.rt.com/news/460958-chern...ersity-actors/

Turns out this is a racist TV show because it doesnít include enough people of color in its cast
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  #48  
Old 06-03-19, 05:23 PM
BlueJayFan BlueJayFan is offline
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I mean if that tweet with 9 RTs says so
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  #49  
Old 06-03-19, 05:25 PM
ronnie mund ronnie mund is offline
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While that may be, her line of idiotic thinking isn't what I would call fringe.
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  #50  
Old 06-03-19, 06:41 PM
arizonawildcat arizonawildcat is offline
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I find it strange the once GOT was over, HBO executives have gone soft on promoting their great series: Chernobyl on a Monday night, and Deadwood the movie launched with little or no publicity on a Friday night.
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  #51  
Old 06-03-19, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by OhioBobcatFan06 View Post
https://www.rt.com/news/460958-chern...ersity-actors/

Turns out this is a racist TV show because it doesn’t include enough people of color in its cast
It is some dumb b$tch who then got torched for suggesting it. She did not like the accents either. She probably has a whole litany of dumb $hit on her twitter.
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  #52  
Old 06-03-19, 09:26 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Started with a Maester and ended with a Bolton. Cannot watch any Brit show these days without a GOT actor being involved.

Good mini-series.
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  #53  
Old 06-04-19, 01:28 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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It is some dumb b$tch who then got torched for suggesting it. She did not like the accents either. She probably has a whole litany of dumb $hit on her twitter.

Coming to a screen near you: "The MLK Story," starring Brad Pitt with Katie Holmes as Coretta.
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  #54  
Old 06-04-19, 01:45 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Episode Five
"The Cost of Lives"
"It was cheapest."


Pretty much universal, a clearly stated moral and well depicted.


I'm a fan of the courtroom genre and I thought this one up there. Most of those don't have the difficulty of explaining Science but I thought they did a great job of explaning the predator - prey that goes on inside a reactor as well as what botched it all up. I'm amazed those three only got 10 years but if not for their greed, something much worse might have happened at a different reactor.


I've one complaint, and I'll have to rewatch, maybe I missed a word or two.
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  #55  
Old 06-04-19, 03:18 PM
OhioBobcatFan06 OhioBobcatFan06 is offline
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Do people of Japanese descent count as people of color? Trying to start casting for a ushima documentary without being racist
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  #56  
Old 06-04-19, 03:19 PM
OhioBobcatFan06 OhioBobcatFan06 is offline
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Do people of Japanese descent count as people of color? Trying to start casting for a ushima documentary without being racist
ishima

Canít say name of Japanese city without it hitting yappi filter for bad word. Seems racist
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  #57  
Old 06-04-19, 03:57 PM
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Only if they vote democrat
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  #58  
Old 06-04-19, 04:06 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Originally Posted by OhioBobcatFan06 View Post
ishima

Canít say name of Japanese city without it hitting yappi filter for bad word. Seems racist
I did the same thing earlier in the thread. Ah well.

Maybe a documentary on "ashima" and how a capitalist company ignored multiple tsunami vulnerability reports because it was too costly.
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  #59  
Old 06-04-19, 04:11 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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It's not even race they're complaining about. It's "color." yikes. There were Russians and Ukrainians, even an Armenian. I don't think they'd appreciate being called the same race. Nor probably not even the same color.


Back to the show.



Media is saying Jared Harris (Legasov) should be pushed for Emmy. I thought he sold it well, borderline arrogant, slightly autistic we might generally think a scientist of that caliber. My favorite though was Emily Watson (Khomyuk) but I'm not sure if it was her performance or I just really liked that character.


Mine Guy: I don't think they have an Emmy for sarcasm in full swinging frontal so to him, an Honorary Lifetime Achievement.
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  #60  
Old 06-04-19, 05:07 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Great wrap up to an excellent and original miniseries. Some thoughts:

* People are taking away the wrong message if they think the moral of this story is don't pinch penny's with nuclear reactors. Sure they gave the reason for why the Soviet reactors were built with a defect as being it was cheaper but the real crime here was the way in which EVERY single person and the entire Soviet government sought to cover up EVERYTHING to do with this problem. This was a story about a society that practiced CYA to an extent no other society ever had.

First the State covered up that an accident had happened. Then the State covered up the severity of the accident. Then the State tried to cover up what caused the accident. And the State would have gotten away with it to if the lead scientist, who was dying , hadn't told the truth. For me this was the message of Chernobyl the series.

Folks need to keep in mind that Chernobyl wasn't the first nor was it the worst disaster to have occurred under Soviet leadership. From nuclear weapons malfunctions to weaponized biological agents being released, the Soviet Union had a long dark history of covering up anything that would reflect badly on the communist party. Google "what happened to the Aral Sea" if you want to see a Soviet ecological catastrophe on an epic scale.

* People need to remember that less then 5 years after the trial the Soviet Union had collapsed. This probably played a role in Legasov not getting shot and the somewhat lenient sentences the others received. Gorbachev was right that Chernobyl was probably as responsible for the Soviet collapse as was Reagan's military build up and the failure in Afghanistan. All these things happening so close together proved to much for the corrupt Soviet regime.
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