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  #121  
Old 04-10-19, 08:04 AM
dion dion is offline
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Originally Posted by hammer89 View Post
That article was another great example of people forgetting there are religions other than Christianity. Donít recall anyone worrying about the Jewish wrestlers on Saturday.
Don't really want to get on a religious soapbox, but let's remember this country was founded on Christian principles. Being TOLERANT of other religions is what's crucial, NOT adhering to their doctrines and/or principles.That would be anarchy. You're never going to please everyone. Can't be all things to all people. Just my opinion, but the OHSAA really messed up when they opened the door by having the Dual Team Tournament on Sunday's.
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  #122  
Old 04-10-19, 08:58 AM
chidy chidy is offline
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Originally Posted by Cramer View Post
Food for thought, by no means am I advocating for this schedule because it does have its flaws, but it does give that visual representation for people to see what a schedule would look like if we took the current structure and moved an additional round to Friday and bumped everything else up 1 session (that can logistically be moved). Sunday would be medal rounds only.

After the OHSAA schedule I attached Florida HS State Tourny Schedule. Florida is also 3 divisions 1 location but it's ran in 2 days. They also only place top 6 so that's 42 less matches being held on day 2. Florida also runs through Trackwrestling now, and they run on 12 mats at Silver Spurs Arena. All 3 divisions wrestle at once where each division gets 4 mats. I coached there 2 years and I was there the first year they cut to 2 days and it was a very long Friday, but that year was also ran on 10 mats.
Again this is just a visual for those who like to see what others are proposing.

OHSAA State Tourny (3 days, 3 divisions, 10 mats)
Friday, March 13
8:00 AM Ticket Office Opens
9:00 AM Coaches packet pickup in Aux Gym – Enter SW doors. Scales available for unofficial weigh-in.
10:00 AM Coaches meeting in Main Arena. 10:15 AM Weigh-in begins in Aux Gym: D III, 10:15-10:30AM; D II, 10:30-10:45AM; D I, 10:45 AM-11:00 AM
11:15 PM Weigh-in ends.
12:00 p.m. - Doors open
1:00 p.m. - Session 1, Championship Preliminaries, Consolations Round 1, and Championship Quarterfinals (672 matches)
1:00 p.m. - Division III Championship Preliminaries begin on Mats 1-10
2:10 p.m. - Division II Championship Preliminaries begin on Mats 1-10
3:35 p.m. - Division I Championship Preliminaries begin on Mats 1-10
5:05 p.m. - Division III Consolations Round 1 begin on Mats 1-10
5:50 p.m. - Division II Consolations Round 1 begin on Mats 1-10
6:25 p.m. - Division I Consolations Round 1 begin on Mats 1-10
7:00 p.m. - Division III Championship Quarterfinals begin on Mats 1-10
7:35 p.m. - Division II Championship Quarterfinals begin on Mats 1-10
8:20 p.m. - Division I Championship Quarterfinals begin on Mats 1-10

Saturday, March 14
9:00 a.m. - Doors open
10:00 a.m. - Session 2, Consolations Round 2 (252 matches)
10:00 a.m. - Division III Consolations Round 2 begin on Mats 1-10
10:35 a.m.- Division II Consolations Round 2 begin on Mats 1-10
11:20a.m.- Division I Consolations Round 2 begin on Mats 1-10
12:10 p.m. - Division I Consolation Quarterfinals on Mats 1-3
12:10 p.m - Division II Consolation Quarterfinals begin on Mats 4-6
12:10 p.m - Division III Consolation Quarterfinals begin on Mats 7-9

5:30 p.m. - Doors open
6:15 p.m. - Ohio Coaches of the Year, Media & Sportsmanship Awards
6:30 p.m. - Session 3, Championship Semifinals and Consolation Semifinals (168 matches)
6:30 p.m. - Division I Championship Semifinals begin on Mats 1 & 2
6:30 p.m. - Division II Championship Semifinals begin on Mats 4 & 5
6:30 p.m. - Division III Championship Semifinals begin on Mats 7 & 8
8:40 p.m. - Division I Consolation Semifinals continue on Mats 1-3
8:40 p.m. - Division II Consolation Semifinals continue on Mats 4-6
8:40 p.m. - Division III Consolation Semifinals continue on Mats 7-9

Saturday, March 15
9:00 a.m. - Doors open
10:00 a.m. - Session 4, Consolation Semifinals and Consolation Finals (126 matches)
10:00 a.m. - Division I Third, Fifth and Seventh Place matches begin on Mats 1-3
10:00 a.m. - Division II Third, Fifth and Seventh Place matches begin on Mats 4-6
10:00 a.m. - Division III Third, Fifth and Seventh Place matches begin on Mats 7-9

2:00 p.m. - Doors open
3:20 p.m. - Hall of Fame Ceremonies
3:30 p.m. - Session 5, Championship Finals (42 matches)
3:30 p.m. - Parade of Champions
3:45 p.m. - Division I First Place matches begin on Mat 1
3:45 p.m. - Division II First Place matches begin on Mat 2
3:45 p.m. - Division III First Place matches begin on Mat 3

Florida High School State Schedule (12 mats, 2 days, 3 divisions)

Thursday – Scales available, 5:30-7:30 p.m.; Roll arounds, 5:30-7:30 p.m.; Coaches pick up packets, 5:30-7:30 p.m.

Friday – Session 1
8 a.m.-Weigh-ins, Coaches pick up packets (weigh-in area)
9 a.m.- Arena opens for competitors, coaches, and spectators
10 a.m- First Round competition; Second round of championship, first round of wrestlebacks and second round of wrestlebacks to follow (4 rounds)

Saturday – Session 2
8 a.m.-Weigh-ins
8:30 a.m.-Arena opens for competitors, coaches, and spectators,
9:30 a.m.- Semifinals (6 mats), Wrestlebacks (Third Round and Fourth Round), following semifinals; Fifth & Sixth Place Finals and Third & Fourth Place Finals (9 mats), following Fourth Round Wrestlebacks; (4 rounds)

Session 3
5:30 p.m.-Arena opens,(wrestlers, 5:15 p.m.);
6.00 p.m- Introduction of Trainers/Officials;
6:05 p.m-Introduction of Hall of Fame Inductees;
6:10 p.m- Introduction of Finalists;
6:20 p.m- Russ Mauger Award;
6:30 p.m- Championship Finals,. (3 mats)
Just briefly looking at your amended schedule that could possibly work. A couple things
1. You have consi semis being wrestled on Sat night but you also list it in the Session 4 on Sunday.
2. The schedule as it's currently been has weigh-ins ending at 12:15 with Session 1 starting at 3p (Doors open at 2p). What is done logistically behind the scenes that requires the 2hr 45 min gap (only 1hr & 45 min to doors open- 12:15-2p)? I'm guessing it involves lunch and a break for the workers and finalizing brackets? What else? Can someone that works behind the scenes enlighten us. I've always been on the coaching side of this tournament so I can't say what goes on behind the scenes. I can't recall if the warm up room is completely set up at weigh-ins with mats on the floor or not or do they put those down after weigh-ins? In your amended time frame that only leave 45 min from the end of weigh-ins until the time doors open (11:15-12pm)

FLORIDA Scenario

The Schott doesn't have enough floor space for 12 mats

Also any talk of reducing the # of sessions cuts into the bottom line for the tournament for OHSAA and they aren't going to do that.

Someone earlier said average ticket price of $20 x 12,000 spectators is $240,000 in lost revenue for 1 session.

I'm guessing the average ticket price is closer to $15. Maybe I'm wrong on this but the cost that teams pay if they order through their school is either $11 a session or $15 a session.

The average # of spectators per session this year was 10,959 so let's just round up to 11,000 x $15 =$165,000 per session.

That's just admission $ lost per session. That doesn't include merchandise and concessions (Not sure who gets what of the concessions. OSU?)

So in synopsis- 12 mats won't work at the Schott and reducing sessions won't work from a financial stand point

Last edited by chidy; 04-10-19 at 09:12 AM.
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  #123  
Old 04-10-19, 09:08 AM
TakedownFor2 TakedownFor2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chidy View Post
Just briefly looking at your amended schedule that could possibly work. One thing- You have consi semis being wrestled on Sat night but you also list it in the Session 4 on Sunday.

The Schott doesn't have enough floor space for 12 mats

Also any talk of cutting the # of sessions cuts into the bottom line for the tournament for OHSAA and they aren't going to do that.

Someone earlier said average ticket price of $20 x 12,000 spectators is $240,000 in lost revenue for 1 session.

I'm guessing the average ticket price is closer to $15. Maybe I'm wrong on this but the cost that teams pay if they order through their school is either $11 a session or $15 a session.

The average # of spectators per session this year was 10,959 so let's just round up to 11,000 x $15 =$165,000 per session.

That's just admission $ lost per session. That doesn't include merchandise and concessions (Not sure who gets what of the concessions. OSU?)

So in synopsis- 12 mats won't work at the Schott and reducing sessions won't work from a financial stand point
Totally makes sense. My opinion is they will being very negatively affected by attendance on Sunday.
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  #124  
Old 04-10-19, 09:52 AM
Cramer Cramer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chidy View Post
Just briefly looking at your amended schedule that could possibly work. A couple things
1. You have consi semis being wrestled on Sat night but you also list it in the Session 4 on Sunday.
2. The schedule as it's currently been has weigh-ins ending at 12:15 with Session 1 starting at 3p (Doors open at 2p). What is done logistically behind the scenes that requires the 2hr 45 min gap (only 1hr & 45 min to doors open- 12:15-2p)? I'm guessing it involves lunch and a break for the workers and finalizing brackets? What else? Can someone that works behind the scenes enlighten us. I've always been on the coaching side of this tournament so I can't say what goes on behind the scenes. I can't recall if the warm up room is completely set up at weigh-ins with mats on the floor or not or do they put those down after weigh-ins? In your amended time frame that only leave 45 min from the end of weigh-ins until the time doors open (11:15-12pm)

FLORIDA Scenario

The Schott doesn't have enough floor space for 12 mats

Also any talk of reducing the # of sessions cuts into the bottom line for the tournament for OHSAA and they aren't going to do that.

Someone earlier said average ticket price of $20 x 12,000 spectators is $240,000 in lost revenue for 1 session.

I'm guessing the average ticket price is closer to $15. Maybe I'm wrong on this but the cost that teams pay if they order through their school is either $11 a session or $15 a session.

The average # of spectators per session this year was 10,959 so let's just round up to 11,000 x $15 =$165,000 per session.

That's just admission $ lost per session. That doesn't include merchandise and concessions (Not sure who gets what of the concessions. OSU?)

So in synopsis- 12 mats won't work at the Schott and reducing sessions won't work from a financial stand point
Point 1 was a typo, I got on it on the actual rounds but forgot to delete it on the heading for session 4.
Point 2 when it comes to time in between, the only thing I can think of is making scratches and inserting the alternate. I've never done baums from districts where you have to name swap and insert the alternate and location, but I have managed the sectional and name swaps are extremely easy to do especially if you get them as they happen. The only other thing I could think of is printing and organizing bout sheets, which at that level can take time.

Florida scenario:
Correct, the Schott cannot hold 12 mats, that is why I wanted to make that a point of emphasis before saying "see it can be done in 2 days!" I've coached there when it was 10 mats in 2 days and first day was long and miserable, second day went pretty smooth but still long as we had 2 guys in the finals that year.

The arena they're in now vs when I was there is different, more floor space but still not a lot of seating. Down there though they never really packed the place so it wouldn't make sense to hold it in a bigger arena seating wise.

But I agree, I don't think OHSAA would cut session(s) or a day, I just wanted to provide a visual of what 2 days would look like with a comparable state/state tournament.

The link gives you a visual reference for their state tourny floor layout and seating.

https://images.app.goo.gl/Y4LyJecg69YyZgZp7

Last edited by Cramer; 04-10-19 at 10:19 AM.
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  #125  
Old 04-10-19, 11:55 AM
chidy chidy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cramer View Post
Point 1 was a typo, I got on it on the actual rounds but forgot to delete it on the heading for session 4.
Point 2 when it comes to time in between, the only thing I can think of is making scratches and inserting the alternate. I've never done baums from districts where you have to name swap and insert the alternate and location, but I have managed the sectional and name swaps are extremely easy to do especially if you get them as they happen. The only other thing I could think of is printing and organizing bout sheets, which at that level can take time.

Florida scenario:
Correct, the Schott cannot hold 12 mats, that is why I wanted to make that a point of emphasis before saying "see it can be done in 2 days!" I've coached there when it was 10 mats in 2 days and first day was long and miserable, second day went pretty smooth but still long as we had 2 guys in the finals that year.

The arena they're in now vs when I was there is different, more floor space but still not a lot of seating. Down there though they never really packed the place so it wouldn't make sense to hold it in a bigger arena seating wise.

But I agree, I don't think OHSAA would cut session(s) or a day, I just wanted to provide a visual of what 2 days would look like with a comparable state/state tournament.

The link gives you a visual reference for their state tourny floor layout and seating.

https://images.app.goo.gl/Y4LyJecg69YyZgZp7
Point 1- I figured it was a typo but wanted to make sure.

Point 2- Yeah I'm guessing the printing & organizing of the bout sheets would take some time. I think it's only fair that these workers get at least a break to have lunch, use the restroom etc. before working from 2pm-10p. So cutting an hour out of that 1hr 45m may not give enough time for all of this to occur.

Point 3- Thank you for giving us the insight into how the Florida tournament runs.

For the people clamoring that this should be a 2 day event obviously don't understand the logistics of running a tournament of this magnitude with full wrestle backs and the max of being 10 mats and having 3 divisions.

As far as adjusting time schedules to an earlier start to fit the Quarter in on the 1st day, This MAY be possible but without knowing exactly what it takes to run things behind the scenes of this tournament I'm not going to go on here and say "Well just cut the break here", "hire more workers", etc.

I'm not sure what the solution is to the problem and I'm all for thinking of ways to fix things for the betterment of our sport but it's not just as simple as cutting it to 2 days or starting earlier. There's a lot of logistics involved and entities (OSU, OHSAA, B10) that all have to align and be on the same page.
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  #126  
Old 04-10-19, 12:05 PM
TakedownFor2 TakedownFor2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chidy View Post
Point 1- I figured it was a typo but wanted to make sure.

Point 2- Yeah I'm guessing the printing & organizing of the bout sheets would take some time. I think it's only fair that these workers get at least a break to have lunch, use the restroom etc. before working from 2pm-10p. So cutting an hour out of that 1hr 45m may not give enough time for all of this to occur.

Point 3- Thank you for giving us the insight into how the Florida tournament runs.

For the people clamoring that this should be a 2 day event obviously don't understand the logistics of running a tournament of this magnitude with full wrestle backs and the max of being 10 mats and having 3 divisions.

As far as adjusting time schedules to an earlier start to fit the Quarter in on the 1st day, This MAY be possible but without knowing exactly what it takes to run things behind the scenes of this tournament I'm not going to go on here and say "Well just cut the break here", "hire more workers", etc.

I'm not sure what the solution is to the problem and I'm all for thinking of ways to fix things for the betterment of our sport but it's not just as simple as cutting it to 2 days or starting earlier. There's a lot of logistics involved and entities (OSU, OHSAA, B10) that all have to align and be on the same page.
Looking at point 2... Use trackwrestling or live scoring and it will eliminate any production of bout sheets thus saving tons of time.
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  #127  
Old 04-10-19, 12:20 PM
chidy chidy is offline
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Originally Posted by TakedownFor2 View Post
Looking at point 2... Use trackwrestling or live scoring and it will eliminate any production of bout sheets thus saving tons of time.
I think this is a great idea but I'm guessing Baumpage is run by someone with ties to OHSAA. Trackwrestling would be a great addition to the tournament and could help speed things up a bit. If it can cut 1hr from the 1st day that could allow the Quarters to be run on the 1st night which in turn would allow consi-semis to be run on the 2nd night and would cut an hour out of the morning program on the 3rd day.
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  #128  
Old 04-10-19, 12:21 PM
FunkRoll FunkRoll is offline
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Can some please explain how the use as something such as trackwrestling will save time? How can it run any faster...it isnt like the mats are ever sitting empty waiting on wrestlers to fill them.
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  #129  
Old 04-10-19, 12:37 PM
TakedownFor2 TakedownFor2 is offline
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Originally Posted by FunkRoll View Post
Can some please explain how the use as something such as trackwrestling will save time? How can it run any faster...it isnt like the mats are ever sitting empty waiting on wrestlers to fill them.
Im more referencing the creation of all the bout sheets... there wouldn't be any thus saving time preparing them and could eliminate the break times needed to catch up on the workload or typing and preparing them all...

A lot of the tournament features are out dated (not that there is anything wrong with it)... the T and B (Top and Bottom) corners as opposed to red and green corners... The prefilled bout board... The paper scoring...

The current structure of the OHSAA State tournament is a well oiled machine. The only reason I think there needs to be changes in the time frames is due to the Sunday competition. I think you will lose a lot of interest by moving this to a Sunday. Look at the State Dual Finals. If that were a Saturday, I think more people would be willing to drive down and come back late.
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  #130  
Old 04-10-19, 01:05 PM
chidy chidy is offline
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Originally Posted by TakedownFor2 View Post
Im more referencing the creation of all the bout sheets... there wouldn't be any thus saving time preparing them and could eliminate the break times needed to catch up on the workload or typing and preparing them all...

A lot of the tournament features are out dated (not that there is anything wrong with it)... the T and B (Top and Bottom) corners as opposed to red and green corners... The prefilled bout board... The paper scoring...

The current structure of the OHSAA State tournament is a well oiled machine. The only reason I think there needs to be changes in the time frames is due to the Sunday competition. I think you will lose a lot of interest by moving this to a Sunday. Look at the State Dual Finals. If that were a Saturday, I think more people would be willing to drive down and come back late.
The State Dual Finals have been on both Saturday & Sunday with similar attendance numbers for both days.

I think if you move everything up 2 hrs on the 1st day and put Qrts the 1st night it could possibly work. The trade-off would be that you're asking your workers to work an additional 2hrs on Day 1 to cut their workload on the 3rd day and everyone gets done earlier and can go home at a reasonable hour

7am- Ticket office opens
8am- Coaches packet pickup
9am- Coaches meeting
9:15am- Weighins Begin
10:15am- Weighins End
1pm-5p- Round 1 (Champ)
5-7p- Qrts
7-9:30- Round 1 (Consi)

This would allow Consi semis to be held the night of the 2nd day and get the finals done an hour to 1.5 hrs earlier on the 3rd day

Last edited by chidy; 04-10-19 at 02:08 PM.
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  #131  
Old 04-10-19, 01:11 PM
wjjsj wjjsj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksman View Post
Minnesota is modified D-E. If you lose first round, you need the wrestler who beat you to get to the semis to continue in the tournament.
Never want to see it go back to this.
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  #132  
Old 04-10-19, 01:18 PM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkRoll View Post
Can some please explain how the use as something such as trackwrestling will save time? How can it run any faster...it isnt like the mats are ever sitting empty waiting on wrestlers to fill them.
The short answer, most likely none to a couple minutes per round.

Bucksman took a shot at it earlier and I tend to think the 30 seconds is very generous thinking. The only thing I see track helping is ease of setup, PPV, and easy creation resulting in a less amount of time for bout sheets.

I could be mistaken, but I would have to believe that the first round of sheets are done in advance of Thursday or first thing Thursday morning. Skin checks throw a wrench in it, but those can easily be fixed with the low amount of DQ's. I can also see them being done immediately after skin assuming a small army of bout sheet people are behind the scenes. As the tournament rolls, X amount of workers begin creating sheets for the next round. There seems to be zero time issues going from round 1 to consi round 1 and so forth. I don't think there is much, if any, time used during the breaks for bout sheet creation. It runs too well for it not to work in some sort of way like this.


Bucksman:
"I don't want to sound like an expert on this, but let's say for the sake of argument that using Track Wrestling to its full scope (i.e. no bout sheets, all on the computers) saves 30 seconds per match on a mat. The present Thursday session has 504 matches over the three divisions -- divide that by ten for the mats, and you get 50 matches to a mat, which means there would be a theoretical 25 minute length of session time savings."
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  #133  
Old 04-10-19, 01:45 PM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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Originally Posted by FunkRoll View Post
Can some please explain how the use as something such as trackwrestling will save time? .
It won't.

It just gives people an opportunity to b!tch about Baums and prove out the old HL Mencken quote: ' "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
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  #134  
Old 04-10-19, 01:59 PM
chidy chidy is offline
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Venues in Ohio with the Seating Capacity to host the State Wrestling Tournament

These are the listed seating capacities on Google but I'm guessing based on needing more floor space for wrestling as opposed to baseball or hockey that would reduce seating capacity by about 500-1,500 depending on the venue.

I also don't know if each venue has the appropriate floor space to allow for 10 mats. The Q had 8 mats for NCAA's last year. Is there enough room for 2 more? The Wolstein center hosted NCAA's in 1998. Can it accommodate 10 mats?

The average per session attendance this year was just under 11,000 with the finals I believe at about 12,500.

From what I could find there are 6 venues in Ohio with the seating capacity to the meet the needs of the HS wrestling tournament.

What we don't know is what the cost comparison is to rent these facilities in comparison to the Schott. I would guess that the Pro Sports arenas of the Q & Nationwide would be the most costly but that's purely speculation.

COLUMBUS
Nationwide Arena (20,000)
Schottenstein Center (18,900)

CLEVELAND
Rocket Mortgage FieldHouse (20,562)- Formerly Quicken Loans Arena
Wolstein Center (13,610)

CINCINNATI
Fifth-Third Arena (12,012)
US Bank Arena (17,556)

DAYTON
Univ. of Dayton Arena (13,409)

ATHENS (Yep I forgot about my alma mater the first time I posted this)
Ohio U Convocation Center (13,080)
Unfortunately I don't believe Athens and the surrounding area has enough hotels to accommodate this event but maybe I'm wrong

2 other arenas with seating capacity close to what would be needed are the Nutter Center @ Wright State (10,400) and the Cintas Center @ Xavier University (10,250) but I'm almost positive that the Nutter Center can only accommodate 8 mats. Can't speak to the floor space of the Cintas Center. All other venues that I researched are under 9,000 seats which wouldn't meet the needs of the tournament.

Last edited by chidy; 04-11-19 at 09:03 AM.
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  #135  
Old 04-10-19, 02:10 PM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chidy View Post
[B][U] The Wolstein center hosted NCAA's in 1998. Can it accommodate 10 mats?
Wolstein Center (13,610)
I can not address any other arenas but the NCAA's D1's were held here in '98 and the D2's just last month.
I was super surprised, at the D2's to see ALL the floor space used up with just 6 mats. Now, they were the NCAA mats like you see on TV but the size difference was not obvious to my eye.
IOW, there is NO way they could get 8 or 10 mats on the floor at Wolstein.
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  #136  
Old 04-10-19, 02:40 PM
chidy chidy is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim Behrens View Post
I can not address any other arenas but the NCAA's D1's were held here in '98 and the D2's just last month.
I was super surprised, at the D2's to see ALL the floor space used up with just 6 mats. Now, they were the NCAA mats like you see on TV but the size difference was not obvious to my eye.
IOW, there is NO way they could get 8 or 10 mats on the floor at Wolstein.
I can't recall how many mats were there in 98. I was there on the last day and really don't remember. Were the NCAA D1 full wrestlebacks in 98? 33 man brackets? You may be right Jim. 10 may not work at the Wolstein
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  #137  
Old 04-10-19, 06:32 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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If you can fit a hockey rink, you can fit five mats per side in the way they are configured at the state tournament:
6 foot section, 30 foot circumference, 6 foot section, 30 foot circumference, 6 foot section, 30 foot circumference, 6 foot section, 30 foot circumference, 6 foot section, 30 foot circumference, 6 foot section
The above is a total of 186 feet in length

The mats used at the NCAA tournament are of larger circumference - I am almost sure of that - plus they have the restraining space on both sides of them (i.e. they are a three-piece mat as opposed to a "sectional"). That results in four mats of 48 feet in length, i.e. 192 feet.
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  #138  
Old 04-10-19, 08:16 PM
buckfan buckfan is offline
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I think they may be able to get 12 mats down but doing it will change a lot. They would need to move the announcer and workers somewhere and then it will affect the tunnel that everyone likes.
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  #139  
Old 04-11-19, 12:34 AM
Power house Power house is offline
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Why not have the state wrestling a week earlier? Middle of March is way way to late!!

Or why not move to nationwide arena traffic problem solved way nicer arena than the Schottenstein center. There is no reason why they could not use nationwide Arena. When the ufc was there a few years back they even said its one of the nicest arenas they have been to clear across the country. Itís far enough away as well!! Seats 20,000 was a $175 million to build.

The shott close to same size few thousand smaller. Cost $106 million to build. Move someone a few miles down the street.. state of art facility everyone is happy. Why the state has to screw with stuff is crazy.
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  #140  
Old 04-11-19, 05:53 AM
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I like Nationwide for this event and think the Sunday finish is fine. I'd roll back Parade to 4ish and hustle between weight classes to finish up.

Kudos to OHSAA for some juggling. Once the Girls basketball site is determined I think we will find they navigated this just fine.
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  #141  
Old 04-11-19, 06:54 AM
WGTJ WGTJ is offline
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Originally Posted by chidy View Post
Venues in Ohio with the Seating Capacity to host the State Wrestling Tournament



2 other arenas with seating capacity close to what would be needed are the Nutter Center @ Wright State (10,400) and the Cintas Center @ Xavier University (10,250) but I'm almost positive that the Nutter Center can only accommodate 8 mats. Can't speak to the floor space of the Cintas Center. All other venues that I researched are under 9,000 seats which wouldn't meet the needs of the tournament.
I think you may actually be able to get 12 mats down at nutter center. They do the Miami Valley kids meet there with 6 mats on the floor. The way it's laid out the botton section of stands are down all the way around, and then you have a bunch of tables at both ends. Also, there are two mats, then two rows of tables, two mats and then two rows of tables and then the last two mats. I think they could easily get 10 mats down and maybe 11 or 12.
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  #142  
Old 04-11-19, 08:43 AM
chidy chidy is offline
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Originally Posted by Power house View Post
Why not have the state wrestling a week earlier? Middle of March is way way to late!!

Or why not move to nationwide arena traffic problem solved way nicer arena than the Schottenstein center. There is no reason why they could not use nationwide Arena. When the ufc was there a few years back they even said its one of the nicest arenas they have been to clear across the country. It’s far enough away as well!! Seats 20,000 was a $175 million to build.

The shott close to same size few thousand smaller. Cost $106 million to build. Move someone a few miles down the street.. state of art facility everyone is happy. Why the state has to screw with stuff is crazy.
Wrestling moved away from the Arnold Classic (always held the 1st weekend in March) because hotel costs were in many cases doubled and availability was extremely limited.

There is a reason they can't use Nationwide arena because the HS Boys Hockey State Tournament is the same weekend. Another reason may be that I'm guessing Nationwide charges a pretty petty to remove the ice and put in back down. The Blue Jackets are in season at that time and probably have home games right around the same time also.

I've heard it's a great facility but not available for wrestling's use or it's too cost prohibitive.

The State Wrestling Coaches Association put together a proposal to shorten the wrestling season and end the last weekend in February like 41 of the other states in the US. What I've been told is this proposal also wouldn't work because of the ice issue at the Schott with their hockey teams still playing at the end of Feb.

I know OHSAA likes to have things centrally located for several reasons but the more I talk to people the more I'm thinking a move to another city may be in the best interest of all. OSU cares about OSU and they have the right to do that but OHSAA's decisions shouldn't be hamstrung or held hostage by facility limitations imposed by OSU.

Last edited by chidy; 04-11-19 at 09:28 AM.
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  #143  
Old 04-11-19, 08:57 AM
chidy chidy is offline
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Originally Posted by WGTJ View Post
I think you may actually be able to get 12 mats down at nutter center. They do the Miami Valley kids meet there with 6 mats on the floor. The way it's laid out the botton section of stands are down all the way around, and then you have a bunch of tables at both ends. Also, there are two mats, then two rows of tables, two mats and then two rows of tables and then the last two mats. I think they could easily get 10 mats down and maybe 11 or 12.
Even if it can hold 10 mats which I've been told the max was 8, you're looking at a loss of about 8,500 spectators in comparison to the Schott.

The high mark at the Nutter Center was 46,244 in 1997. The attendance this year at the Schott was 54,797. If you multiple the difference between the two venues by the average ticket price the loss for OHSAA is significant (8,500 x $15= $127,500).

For that reason alone I don't see it going back to the Nutter Center even if it does have the floor space.

Some say that attendance will suffer greatly with a Fri-Sun time frame and it may. I guess OHSAA's willing to take the risk and see how it goes.

I do know that you better book your hotel rooms now because with 4 state tournaments going on the same weekend things are going to be tight (G BK, Boy's Hockey, B & G Bowling, & Wrestling)

Last edited by chidy; 04-11-19 at 09:30 AM.
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  #144  
Old 04-11-19, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by chidy View Post
Even if it can hold 10 mats which I've been told the max was 8, you're looking at a loss of about 8,500 spectators in comparison to the Schott.

The high mark at the Nutter Center was 46,244 in 1997. The attendance this year at the Schott was 54,797. If you multiple the difference between the two venues by the average ticket price the loss for OHSAA is significant (8,500 x $15= $127,500).

For that reason alone I don't see it going back the Nutter Center even if it does have the floor space.

Some say that attendance will suffer greatly with a Fri-Sun time frame and it may. I guess OHSAA's willing to take the risk and see how it goes.

I do know that you better book your hotel rooms now because with 4 state tournaments going on the same weekend things are going to be tight (G BK, Boy's Hockey, B & G Bowling, & Wrestling)
Oh, I'm certainly not arguing that Nutter would be good from a ticketing perspective. I would just be surprised if you couldn't get 10 mats down.
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  #145  
Old 04-11-19, 09:26 AM
chidy chidy is offline
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Originally Posted by bucksman View Post
If you can fit a hockey rink, you can fit five mats per side in the way they are configured at the state tournament:
6 foot section, 30 foot circumference, 6 foot section, 30 foot circumference, 6 foot section, 30 foot circumference, 6 foot section, 30 foot circumference, 6 foot section, 30 foot circumference, 6 foot section
The above is a total of 186 feet in length

The mats used at the NCAA tournament are of larger circumference - I am almost sure of that - plus they have the restraining space on both sides of them (i.e. they are a three-piece mat as opposed to a "sectional"). That results in four mats of 48 feet in length, i.e. 192 feet.
High School minimum circle diameter (not circumference) is 28ft but most are typically 30ft. So you're calculations are correct on the HS side with 186ft of length needed for just the mats. Obviously that doesn't take into account the space for the bullpen/head table construction on the one side and the about 10-15ft I'd say for walkway on the other side that is there.

The college minimum diameter is 32ft with a maximum of 42ft and a minimum protection area of 5ft on each side. So those 3 piece resilite mats are at minimum 42ft and at maximum 52ft+(allowed to have larger than 5ft protection area). So your 48' is probably about right. Is this a figure you found somewhere or your best guesstimate?
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  #146  
Old 04-11-19, 01:13 PM
gCOACH gCOACH is offline
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Someone mentioned wrestling finals only on Sunday. If the OHSAA could rearrange the session schedule to make that possible I think that would alleviate much of the frustration that they are receiving from fans, parents, coaches and athletes. This would allow the tournament to finish by a reasonable time on Sunday afternoon. In order to compensate for 1 less session, they could just charge $20 per session instead of $15. This would only change the cost of a whole packet of tickets by $5. I would gladly pay that in order to be done with finals by a reasonable time. I think that everyone can agree the finals are something we don't want to mess with. In the future, I think it would be worth while to look into moving to a different venue for the purpose of shortening the season. It's way to long, and the reason that it was lengthened was not to benefit wrestling, but to accommodate other things going on in Columbus. State tournament should be the last weekend in February. State duals, sectionals, districts, State indiv. tournament could all be wrestled within the month of February.
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  #147  
Old 04-11-19, 01:31 PM
4TimeFunk 4TimeFunk is offline
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Just for fun of discussion

If we got on same page statewide and everyone did their conference tourney last weekend in Jan, wrestled regional prelims the Wednesday following, regional finals Thursday. State duals finals that same Sunday(all first week of FEB). Could go sectionals, districts, state following 3 weeks and end in Feb.

Regional dual final attendance would probably take a hit fan wise but far less problem than current imo.
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  #148  
Old 04-11-19, 02:44 PM
chidy chidy is offline
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Originally Posted by 4TimeFunk View Post
Just for fun of discussion

If we got on same page statewide and everyone did their conference tourney last weekend in Jan, wrestled regional prelims the Wednesday following, regional finals Thursday. State duals finals that same Sunday(all first week of FEB). Could go sectionals, districts, state following 3 weeks and end in Feb.

Regional dual final attendance would probably take a hit fan wise but far less problem than current imo.
I'm all for a shortened season but that doesn't solve the issue of venue conflicts at OSU. Tournament has to move if we want it to end at the last weekend of Feb or if we want to keep it the same as currently is with a Thur, Fri, Sat tourney.

There are no longer Regional Prelims so are you proposing bringing them back? There are only ! Day Regional Dual Tournaments held on on Saturdays now.

I would be opposed to wrestling 3 times in one week for regionals. You're asking the kids to make weight on Wed, Thurs, and then bring it back down on Sunday. I'd vote a hard no on that.

Next season February has 5 weekends because of the leap year (Feb. 29th) falling on a Saturday (I'm guessing this is a very rare occurrence) so it would look something like this in my shortened season proposal.

2/1 (Team Regional)
2/8 or 2/9 (Team State)
2/14-2/15 (Sectional)
2/21-2/22 (District)
2/27-2/29 (State)

In next years scenario conference tournaments could be held the last Sat in January. There may be some conferences where they know no team has a shot to make the Team Dual and they could elect to have their conference tournament held on the 2/9 weekend.

In the 20-21 season and beyond the Team Regional would have to be the last Saturday in January with the conference tournaments being the 2nd to last weekend in January or the weekend of Team State for those conferences that typically don't have a participant in Team Dual State.

Some conferences could decide to do away with their tournament and base it on conference duals/tris/double duals altogether.

I know that Conference championships still means a lot to some teams/areas but with a lot of conferences realigning so often some can't say it's based on a longstanding tradition of that conference.

I personally think a shortened season would be beneficial to a majority of wrestlers, coaches, and fans for a multitude of reasons.
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  #149  
Old 04-11-19, 03:06 PM
4TimeFunk 4TimeFunk is offline
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Chidy

Good points about making weight and better proposal of schedule than mine for sure. Would we compete with anything for use of the Schott late feb?
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  #150  
Old 04-11-19, 04:15 PM
Cramer Cramer is offline
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Chidy

Good points about making weight and better proposal of schedule than mine for sure. Would we compete with anything for use of the Schott late feb?
OSU hockey. NCAA changed the playoff where higher seed hosts the first round I think? So OSU keeps that weekend open just in case.

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