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  #61  
Old 04-05-19, 11:23 AM
FunkRoll FunkRoll is offline
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Not sure why anyone would want it anywhere other than the Schott...it is the best!!!
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  #62  
Old 04-05-19, 11:36 AM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakedownFor2 View Post
The first day is not really all that full. They could start earlier. The mats are already set up and ready to go. Start weigh ins at 9-10, Wrestling begins at Noon as opposed to 3:00. Could easily wrestle Champ, Consi, Quarters (3 total rounds) in that first day and end within or close to the same timeframe.

For example, as it stands right now, Division 1 weighs in at 11:45 (but it starts earlier) then wrestling starts at 5:45...
I am not going to try to change your mind but you are there as a coach. You come in as appropriate for your division (on all three days) and you leave as soon as you can or choose to. Additionally you can come and go as you choose plus there are other coaches with you to spread the work load.
For the people working the tournament (tables, runners, officials), it is a very long day.
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  #63  
Old 04-05-19, 11:37 AM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkRoll View Post
Not sure why anyone would want it anywhere other than the Schott...it is the best!!!
It isn't that anyone wants it elsewhere, it is the fact that the arena doesn't really meet the needs of the event if they are shoving it to a Sunday.
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  #64  
Old 04-05-19, 11:40 AM
BHiatt BHiatt is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim Behrens View Post
It isn't that anyone wants it elsewhere, it is the fact that the arena doesn't really meet the needs of the event if they are shoving it to a Sunday.
Absolutely correct.
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  #65  
Old 04-05-19, 11:50 AM
TakedownFor2 TakedownFor2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Behrens View Post
I am not going to try to change your mind but you are there as a coach. You come in as appropriate for your division (on all three days) and you leave as soon as you can or choose to. Additionally you can come and go as you choose plus there are other coaches with you to spread the work load.
For the people working the tournament (tables, runners, officials), it is a very long day.
Then hire more table workers...

as it stands right now there are 504 matches wrestled between 3:00-10:00pm... a little over 50 matches per mat (504 / 10 mats = 50.4)

You add an extra total matches (4 QTRS x 14 Weights x 3 divisions) that equals 168 extra matches for about 17 extra matches per mat.

An officiating crew would officiate about 67-68 matches on their mat.

For example a crew at a large dual meet tournament will officiate 70 matches (5 matches x 14 weights) in 1 day (assuming teams have full lineups and no forfeits so lets say on average 55-60 matches)

Sharing the "work load" comment is pretty obtuse, as coaches are pretty much involved with all wrestlers at this point and pretty much are "ON" either with kids in the warm up area or down on the floor coaching from start to finish but I agree there is some area for breaks. The officiating crews at the state tournament get breaks as well (at least I hope they do so correct me if I am wrong)

It can be done, with minimal added work for the table workers. Workers / officials at other tournaments probably ref more matches then that in a weekend.
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  #66  
Old 04-05-19, 12:12 PM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakedownFor2 View Post
Then hire more table workers...

as it stands right now there are 504 matches wrestled between 3:00-10:00pm... a little over 50 matches per mat (504 / 10 mats = 50.4)

You add an extra total matches (4 QTRS x 14 Weights x 3 divisions) that equals 168 extra matches for about 17 extra matches per mat.

An officiating crew would officiate about 67-68 matches on their mat.

For example a crew at a large dual meet tournament will officiate 70 matches (5 matches x 14 weights) in 1 day (assuming teams have full lineups and no forfeits so lets say on average 55-60 matches)

Sharing the "work load" comment is pretty obtuse, as coaches are pretty much involved with all wrestlers at this point and pretty much are "ON" either with kids in the warm up area or down on the floor coaching from start to finish but I agree there is some area for breaks. The officiating crews at the state tournament get breaks as well (at least I hope they do so correct me if I am wrong)

It can be done, with minimal added work for the table workers. Workers / officials at other tournaments probably ref more matches then that in a weekend.
As I said, I wasn't expecting to change your mind. It is easy when the work and the money comes from somewhere else.

Hire more workers. Easy to say, not quite as easy to do.

We are now at 3 pm to 10 pm. That is very close to a full work day for most people. Now, the add'l 17 matches per mat is, at a minimum, 102 minutes extra. More than 1 1/2 hours extra per mat.

Very few teams have so many wrestlers that the coaches are busy all the time. The teams that are that fortunate have more coaches than the smaller teams. The workers are busy virtually all the time.

You wrote "The officiating crews at the state tournament get breaks as well (at least I hope they do so correct me if I am wrong)"
Well, you are very wrong. Each crew has three officials and two are on the mat for every match. The official coming off is responsible for the paperwork for the match he just finished (and God help you if you make a mistake) and then assigning the next match up. If he is really lucky, he gets to sit for a full 6 minutes. If it is a firs period pin, he is back on the mat right then. There is a hospitality room and if you are really lucky with the mat you are on, you run to it, throw something in your mouth, and run back to your mat. There is so little time that I am sure you would be shocked.

I have worked lots of big events including this one and I can honestly say that no tournament I have ever worked left me as tired at the end of the day as this one. It is hard!

Out.
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  #67  
Old 04-05-19, 12:18 PM
TakedownFor2 TakedownFor2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Behrens View Post
As I said, I wasn't expecting to change your mind. It is easy when the work and the money comes from somewhere else.

Hire more workers. Easy to say, not quite as easy to do.

We are now at 3 pm to 10 pm. That is very close to a full work day for most people. Now, the add'l 17 matches per mat is, at a minimum, 102 minutes extra. More than 1 1/2 hours extra per mat.

Very few teams have so many wrestlers that the coaches are busy all the time. The teams that are that fortunate have more coaches than the smaller teams. The workers are busy virtually all the time.

You wrote "The officiating crews at the state tournament get breaks as well (at least I hope they do so correct me if I am wrong)"
Well, you are very wrong. Each crew has three officials and two are on the mat for every match. The official coming off is responsible for the paperwork for the match he just finished (and God help you if you make a mistake) and then assigning the next match up. If he is really lucky, he gets to sit for a full 6 minutes. If it is a firs period pin, he is back on the mat right then. There is a hospitality room and if you are really lucky with the mat you are on, you run to it, throw something in your mouth, and run back to your mat. There is so little time that I am sure you would be shocked.

I have worked lots of big events including this one and I can honestly say that no tournament I have ever worked left me as tired at the end of the day as this one. It is hard!

Out.
Sorry that its a long day for you guys... Do the officials working the tournament do the weigh in / skin checks or are those different officials then who is working the mats?
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  #68  
Old 04-05-19, 12:23 PM
rr23724 rr23724 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Behrens View Post
As I said, I wasn't expecting to change your mind. It is easy when the work and the money comes from somewhere else.

Hire more workers. Easy to say, not quite as easy to do.

We are now at 3 pm to 10 pm. That is very close to a full work day for most people. Now, the add'l 17 matches per mat is, at a minimum, 102 minutes extra. More than 1 1/2 hours extra per mat.

Very few teams have so many wrestlers that the coaches are busy all the time. The teams that are that fortunate have more coaches than the smaller teams. The workers are busy virtually all the time.

You wrote "The officiating crews at the state tournament get breaks as well (at least I hope they do so correct me if I am wrong)"
Well, you are very wrong. Each crew has three officials and two are on the mat for every match. The official coming off is responsible for the paperwork for the match he just finished (and God help you if you make a mistake) and then assigning the next match up. If he is really lucky, he gets to sit for a full 6 minutes. If it is a firs period pin, he is back on the mat right then. There is a hospitality room and if you are really lucky with the mat you are on, you run to it, throw something in your mouth, and run back to your mat. There is so little time that I am sure you would be shocked.

I have worked lots of big events including this one and I can honestly say that no tournament I have ever worked left me as tired at the end of the day as this one. It is hard!

Out.
Maybe take some of the officials off the tables to split the workload on the mat and then open table jobs to retired coaches who still love to attend the tournament. Give them free admission in exchange for working a table. I'd bet you could get a handful of old coaches who are very competent table workers who would be happy to work for free admission and hospitality access. It costs a near fortune to get in and eat there anymore.
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  #69  
Old 04-05-19, 12:30 PM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakedownFor2 View Post
Sorry that its a long day for you guys... Do the officials working the tournament do the weigh in / skin checks or are those different officials then who is working the mats?
I want to be clear that I was not complaining, just trying to make it known that a longer day is not the best idea.
The mat officials (to my knowledge) are not involved in the weigh in process. I have to be careful what I write here but they are in "meetings" with the higher-ups.
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  #70  
Old 04-05-19, 12:35 PM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rr23724 View Post
Maybe take some of the officials off the tables to split the workload on the mat and then open table jobs to retired coaches who still love to attend the tournament. Give them free admission in exchange for working a table. I'd bet you could get a handful of old coaches who are very competent table workers who would be happy to work for free admission and hospitality access. It costs a near fortune to get in and eat there anymore.
Good, bad, or otherwise, the mat officials were selected by the OHSAA for the assignment. The guys on the tables, many of whom are officials, were not.
This idea would open up all kinds of issues regarding very competent officials back in their Districts who were not selected and might be superior to the people you suggest.
Another part of me thinks that retired coaches are smarter than that!
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  #71  
Old 04-05-19, 12:43 PM
TakedownFor2 TakedownFor2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Behrens View Post
I want to be clear that I was not complaining, just trying to make it known that a longer day is not the best idea.
The mat officials (to my knowledge) are not involved in the weigh in process. I have to be careful what I write here but they are in "meetings" with the higher-ups.
Well it comes off as complaining to just be completely honest.

A current crew would look as such now... Ref 34 matches (Either as an AR Or Official) and assist the table in assigning colors and "breaking" for 16 matches.

To start earlier, which, per your indication, this would not be adding to the length of their day as they are already there and in meetings, and run the extra round that consists of 168 total matches (about 17 extra matches per mat) seems like a logical solution to getting the finals to start at an earlier time.

I'm not trying to devalue the importance of the officials, but days have been longer at other tournaments during the year then what I proposed in this scenario.
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  #72  
Old 04-05-19, 01:09 PM
wjjsj wjjsj is offline
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It is easy for people to come on here and throw random suggestions on they should do this or do that with the officials, table workers, etc. It is very annoying to read.

The current way the tournament is run is a well oiled machine. Day 1 officials do not get a break once wrestling starts. I literally ran back to the hospitality room for a second halfway through, grabbed something to eat and ate it as I walked back to the mat. I think I was gone less than 2 minutes.

I'm very thankful that we have 3 refs per mat. I do not feel physically exhausted when it is done. I will say that it is mentally exhausting. I did not sleep well the entire weekend or the following week. I love the intensity and focus that it takes, but it does make for long days/weekend.

I'm not sure what the fix is. With all that said, I would rather it stay the way it currently is or do Friday & Saturday. For it stay a well oiled machine it would have to start at like 9am and then the prices would probably would be raised for sessions. In other words, don't see it going to two days.

Also, I would probably rather see awards after every weight class instead of the long breaks after 3 weight classes. I don't think the awards should all be at the end. The whole point of the season is for these kids to get on the podium and be recognized for their accomplishment.
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  #73  
Old 04-05-19, 01:27 PM
jarhead2 jarhead2 is offline
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I know I am missing something here but:
When we got away from Baum's and went to Track Wrestling a few years ago it not only sped up our tournament immensely but it also cut down on paperwork and the need for workers. The Maumee Bay Classic went from 24 teams to 50 teams and we are finishing the tournament 8 hours earlier than when we had 24 teams and with less workers. Why don't we look into Track Wrestling at the State Tournament? By the way, I know why.
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  #74  
Old 04-05-19, 01:31 PM
penguinwrestler22 penguinwrestler22 is offline
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Just out of curiosity did OHSAA check the Q? They ran the NCAA. Iím pretty sure they could run the state tournament.


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  #75  
Old 04-05-19, 01:53 PM
BHiatt BHiatt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjjsj View Post
Also, I would probably rather see awards after every weight class instead of the long breaks after 3 weight classes. I don't think the awards should all be at the end. The whole point of the season is for these kids to get on the podium and be recognized for their accomplishment.
As it is, the light weights get recognized by the entire stadium, upper weights by about 1/8 of the stadium.

No perfect way - but I'm not a fan of taking people out of the stadium while there is still competition going on.

Just my $0.02
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  #76  
Old 04-05-19, 03:59 PM
bcw bcw is offline
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A lot of talk has been about Dr Maurers resistance to changing the way things are done. Is this really an issue? It seems everyone wants to tip toe around his name. I’m baffled by this. The state tournament belongs to the fans and should not be decided upon by one man or even a few.
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  #77  
Old 04-05-19, 06:49 PM
FunkRoll FunkRoll is offline
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Upperweights are going to get recognized by a lot less than 1/8 of the stadium next year.

I also agree...the state tournament is a well oiled machine. I have zero issues with the current way it is ran.
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  #78  
Old 04-05-19, 07:28 PM
VB3 VB3 is offline
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We went down Wednesday night. Our kid wrestled 1 match Thursday. He wrestled 2 matches Friday. And 1 on Saturday and got home at 130am. And the money we had to spend is in that time was outrageous. 4 matches in 72+ hours is ridiculous. Fix it!
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  #79  
Old 04-05-19, 08:06 PM
chidy chidy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BHiatt View Post
I contacted OHSAA and I got a honest, straightforward response.

Move was OSU driven and input not received from coaches because it wouldn't have mattered anyway. It state tournament is to stay in current format (10 mats), Schott is only place to do it and the 2nd weekend in March is the only time.
Thank you for contacting them. This is what I figured happened but now we get it straight from the horses mouth. OSU holds all the cards as they are the owners of the facility.

Maybe a little pressure from a pretty famous congressman who happened to be one hell of a wrestler could hold some sway w OSU. IDK?
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  #80  
Old 04-05-19, 08:17 PM
MPhillips MPhillips is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VB3 View Post
We went down Wednesday night. Our kid wrestled 1 match Thursday. He wrestled 2 matches Friday. And 1 on Saturday and got home at 130am. And the money we had to spend is in that time was outrageous. 4 matches in 72+ hours is ridiculous. Fix it!
It cost what it cost?

Quote:
4 matches in 72+ hours
Those are State Champion stats.
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  #81  
Old 04-06-19, 07:47 AM
VB3 VB3 is offline
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Runner up.
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  #82  
Old 04-06-19, 09:47 AM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcw View Post
A lot of talk has been about Dr Maurers resistance to changing the way things are done. Is this really an issue? It seems everyone wants to tip toe around his name. I’m baffled by this. The state tournament belongs to the fans and should not be decided upon by one man or even a few.
False. It belongs to the kids. Followed by those involved with creating the best product possible for the kids.
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  #83  
Old 04-06-19, 09:52 AM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarhead2 View Post
I know I am missing something here but:
When we got away from Baum's and went to Track Wrestling a few years ago it not only sped up our tournament immensely but it also cut down on paperwork and the need for workers. The Maumee Bay Classic went from 24 teams to 50 teams and we are finishing the tournament 8 hours earlier than when we had 24 teams and with less workers. Why don't we look into Track Wrestling at the State Tournament? By the way, I know why.
Will this really help with time? I know it would be easier and the option to PPV it is already built in. When I watch the madness on the floor, time wasted because of bout sheets doesn't seem to be an issue. Match ends, kids and offical walk off to finish paper work, and two more wrestlers already banded walk straight to the middle as the others walk off. I could obviously be wrong.

Last edited by eyes r burning; 04-06-19 at 10:04 AM.
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  #84  
Old 04-06-19, 10:03 AM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VB3 View Post
Runner up.
Ask your runner up what he would prefer. The experience he had this last year with 12k people watching, fireworks, stage, parade of champions, and the podium ceremony. (I know you said 220, maybe not 12k of people at that point)

Or next to none of that in a gym at Ohio Wesleyan in front of 300 people.
I bet I know his answer.

A state championship is a state championship, but not all state championships are equal. As I said earlier, this isn't Arkansas.

The main man in charge of NFHS wrestling attended our tournament a couple years ago and said Ohio had the finest state tournament he had attended. We shouldn't ruin that, only make tweaks for the better. I fear we'll take a step back with this Sunday date.
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  #85  
Old 04-06-19, 11:15 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by Bigtimewrestling View Post
I'm pretty certain that Dayton Christian, Troy Christian, and CVCA all have policies against Sunday competition. I think the OHSAA will get a lot of push back from their religious school members (public schools also but for different reasons). Would not be surprised if legal action and even some politicians get involved with this. Not a good move, nor a good look for OHSAA.
I believe those schools allow for exceptions when it comes to the post season since they don't control the scheduling there.
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  #86  
Old 04-06-19, 11:24 AM
hammer89 hammer89 is offline
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Legal action would be absurd. I donít recall any jewish wrestlers suing over wrestling on Saturday, or Islamic wrestlers suing over wrestling on a Friday.
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  #87  
Old 04-06-19, 11:29 AM
Styxbb Styxbb is offline
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Originally Posted by eyes r burning View Post
False. It belongs to the kids. Followed by those involved with creating the best product possible for the kids.
Plus 1000 for this.

I plan on doing my part. I will be going, but once in that door, not one penny will come out of my pocket. The kids deserve that. For those of you planning on the PPV, shame on you. OHSAA will still get theirs, but the kids won't hear you. Be glad OHSAA is making it convenient for YOU.
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  #88  
Old 04-06-19, 01:09 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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I don't want to sound like an expert on this, but let's say for the sake of argument that using Track Wrestling to its full scope (i.e. no bout sheets, all on the computers) saves 30 seconds per match on a mat. The present Thursday session has 504 matches over the three divisions -- divide that by ten for the mats, and you get 50 matches to a mat, which means there would be a theoretical 25 minute length of session time savings.

Given that Ohio State is forcing the OHSAA's hand into a Friday/Saturday/Sunday event for wrestling, I think the conversation needs to be focused toward getting all the wrestling done but for the championship matches in the first two days. I do not think it is realistic in the present structure (9/10 mats, all three divisions in one facility) to have the full tournament done in two days.

If we can get it down to the championship finals program starting at like 11:00 or Noon on Sunday, then I would say that a Friday/Saturday/Sunday tournament would achieve the goals related to reducing the loss of school time for student-athletes and work time for most fans/coaches/staff (I am assuming these people have traditional work schedules).

As far as other facilities goes ... Nationwide seemed to be a non-starter due to cost, Nutter probably can't get down ten mats (if it can, I'm sorry, but they only ran 8 there when the state tournament was there in the '90s), the "Q" would bring about complaints related to it being not centralized ... I can't imagine Cintas having the floor space to put down 10 (plus there's the not centralized thing)
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  #89  
Old 04-06-19, 01:59 PM
dion dion is offline
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Is there another venue in the state that seats over 12,000 that would be a decent option? Never been there, but I've heard that the Fifth Third Arena in Cincinnati is a nice venue; seats over 12,000.

Last edited by dion; 04-06-19 at 02:16 PM.
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  #90  
Old 04-06-19, 05:45 PM
BHiatt BHiatt is offline
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If it waould be moved to a venue with only 8 mats, tournament would need to start earlier than 3PM.

I know other states befin their tournament before 3 PM. Is there a reason OH canít? Other than thatís not how Mr. Mauer wants to run the tournament?
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