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  #1  
Old 04-09-19, 03:51 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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Top NCAA Wrestlers of All Time

An Interesting read is in Intermat, listing the Top NCAA Wrestlers of All Time. They list 39 and another 35 as Honorable Mention. Below is the link to the article, the top 10 and other Ohio guys.



https://intermatwrestle.com/articles/21790



Top 10

1. Cael Sanderson, Iowa State

2. Kyle Dake, Cornell

3. Yojiro Uetake, Oklahoma State

4. Dan Gable, Iowa State

5. Pat Smith, Oklahoma State

6. Logan Stieber, Ohio State

7. Dan Hodge, Oklahoma

8. Lee Kemp, Wisconsin

9. Mark Schultz, Oklahoma

10. Kyle Snyder, Ohio State



Other Ohio guys:

12. David Taylor, Penn State

Honorable Mention

Tommy Rowlands, Ohio State

Last edited by bdhof; 04-12-19 at 06:25 AM.
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  #2  
Old 04-09-19, 03:53 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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Ohio is well represented in the top 12 with Stieber, Kemp and Taylor.
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  #3  
Old 04-09-19, 04:08 PM
Yankeefan33 Yankeefan33 is offline
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Lists like these are great debate fodder, since everyone has kinda their own order of things. I just wanna comment on Uetake, who went undefeated for three years and won a dang Olympic gold medal between championships in college. He was the only one to do that until one Kyle Snyder accomlished it 50 years later. If he could have wrestled four years he would have been a four time, undefeated champ with a gold medal. Everyone puts Cael #1 but he couldn't win an Olympic title in 2000. Uetake did the dang thing.

I also would have David Taylor a bit higher. He lost to two guys his whole career, won a pair of Hodge trophies, and was a bonus machine. And I know I just used international results to argue my point, but if you don't include them, I think he should crack that top 10.
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  #4  
Old 04-09-19, 04:48 PM
MPhillips MPhillips is offline
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I don't disagree about Uetake. Unreal career. Really mind blowing. I just don't believe enough people know about him or know much about him.
3x NCAA Champ, Outstanding Wrestler of the NCAA tournament as both a junior and senior, while sliding in an Olympic Gold in '64' and then another in '68.'

"It’s hard to adequately describe Uetake’s dominance."

“He was not just the greatest wrestler in the state of Oklahoma, he was at the time the greatest wrestler in the world,” OSU wrestling coach John Smith said. “His skill and technique, the philosophy behind what he did, we still do today … it took a lot of coaches years to catch up."
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  #5  
Old 04-09-19, 06:10 PM
nooks nooks is offline
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Lists like these are great, but they really come down more to "favorites" as much as substantive facts. Can't argue with any of these listed...but to add a few of my own...I'd include Gene Mills, Randy Lewis and Wade Schalles. Why? Because "they pinned people" and I love watching pinners more than takedown machines. Uetake, Gable & Hodge certainly fit here as well...
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  #6  
Old 04-11-19, 03:49 PM
OnceAViking OnceAViking is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPhillips View Post
I don't disagree about Uetake. Unreal career. Really mind blowing. I just don't believe enough people know about him or know much about him.
3x NCAA Champ, Outstanding Wrestler of the NCAA tournament as both a junior and senior, while sliding in an Olympic Gold in '64' and then another in '68.'

"It’s hard to adequately describe Uetake’s dominance."

“He was not just the greatest wrestler in the state of Oklahoma, he was at the time the greatest wrestler in the world,” OSU wrestling coach John Smith said. “His skill and technique, the philosophy behind what he did, we still do today … it took a lot of coaches years to catch up."
One of the great stories about Uetake (which I hope is true) goes as follows.

In the 1966 NCAA championship match, he was wrestling Lehigh's Joe Peritore (a 2X Ohio State Champ) for Uetake's third national championship. Peritore was a three time All-American himself (two runners up and a third).

Uetake was on top, dominating but not scoring a lot of points as he was want to do. At some point the referee decided to call stalling on Uetake. Peritore and Uetake both looked at the referee in surprise. 30 seconds later Uetake pinned Peritore for this third national championship.

On the way off the mat Peritore was rumored to have said to the referee something to the effect of "next time, don't do me any favors."
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  #7  
Old 04-11-19, 05:51 PM
MPhillips MPhillips is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnceAViking View Post
"next time, don't do me any favors."
Thanks OnceaViking.
I've heard this story for years and I'm going to believe it's true.
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Old 04-11-19, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnceAViking View Post
One of the great stories about Uetake (which I hope is true) goes as follows.

In the 1966 NCAA championship match, he was wrestling Lehigh's Joe Peritore (a 2X Ohio State Champ) for Uetake's third national championship. Peritore was a three time All-American himself (two runners up and a third).

Uetake was on top, dominating but not scoring a lot of points as he was want to do. At some point the referee decided to call stalling on Uetake. Peritore and Uetake both looked at the referee in surprise. 30 seconds later Uetake pinned Peritore for this third national championship.

On the way off the mat Peritore was rumored to have said to the referee something to the effect of "next time, don't do me any favors."
I cant find the quote but somewhere there was one from his coach saying he doesnt know how good he was because he was never challenged.
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  #9  
Old 04-11-19, 06:46 PM
cruiser_96 cruiser_96 is offline
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Carlton Haselrig not even mentioned??
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  #10  
Old 04-12-19, 05:44 AM
chidy chidy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cruiser_96 View Post
Carlton Haselrig not even mentioned??
In the article link he’s ranked last at 39th. You would think that 6 titles would get you a little higher but I guess not
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  #11  
Old 04-12-19, 07:21 AM
cruiser_96 cruiser_96 is offline
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Originally Posted by chidy View Post
In the article link he’s ranked last at 39th. You would think that 6 titles would get you a little higher but I guess not
I should have clarified...not mentioned - in the top 10.

I'm not sure how SIX - yes SIX - NCAA titles doesn't warrant some level of greatness among NCAA wrestlers. SMH.

ps: IMO, Uetake and Sanderson are interchangeable. I think Dake comes in a #3 for his accomplishments.
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  #12  
Old 04-12-19, 07:36 AM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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Top NCAA Wrestlers of All Time

Quote:
Originally Posted by cruiser_96 View Post
I should have clarified...not mentioned - in the top 10.

I'm not sure how SIX - yes SIX - NCAA titles doesn't warrant some level of greatness among NCAA wrestlers. SMH.

ps: IMO, Uetake and Sanderson are interchangeable. I think Dake comes in a #3 for his accomplishments.
I'm not sure if any of the top 10 wouldn't have won 6 NCAA titles (or even 7 or 8) if given a chance to earn DII titles along with DI. I don't know who gets bumped out of the top 10 for Haslerig. OK, Gable wouldn't get 7 or 8 b/c he only won 2 DI titles and freshmen couldn't compete in his era, so he just gets 5 titles. And no one in their right mind would bump Gable out of the top 10 for Haslerig.

Last edited by bdhof; 04-12-19 at 11:36 AM.
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  #13  
Old 04-12-19, 01:16 PM
veryoldcoach veryoldcoach is offline
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fun to have these debates, John Smith was ONLY a 3x All-American, while Haslerig was a 3x National Champion, JS was a DNP his freshmen year...eliminated by Dan Foldesy-CSU if I remember correctly...
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  #14  
Old 04-12-19, 10:00 PM
nooks nooks is offline
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Gable would have beaten Dake...and Kemp would have beaten Pat Smith.
The measure of the greatest has to be how good they were in their prime year and at their best. NOT what they did for their overall years in school.
Nobody under 140 lbs. ever would have beaten John Smith his Sr. year in college. Over his whole 4 years, yes. He peaked late. Most do...
So that to me marks the best at any level.
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  #15  
Old 04-13-19, 12:04 PM
goldentornado goldentornado is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cruiser_96 View Post
I should have clarified...not mentioned - in the top 10.

I'm not sure how SIX - yes SIX - NCAA titles doesn't warrant some level of greatness among NCAA wrestlers. SMH.

ps: IMO, Uetake and Sanderson are interchangeable. I think Dake comes in a #3 for his accomplishments.
Carlton Haselrig with 6 titles and a record of 143-2-1 . Never lost a match in the Division I National Tournament . amazing he isn't ranked higher
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  #16  
Old 04-13-19, 12:59 PM
Boro Fan Boro Fan is offline
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At first glance, Haselrig’s ranking stuck out to me as well.

I went back and looked at his NCAA performances and he didn’t beat any previous national champs or national finalists.

His national title wins were over:
1987: #5 Seed - Dean Hall (Edinboro)
1988: Unseeded - Dave Orndorff (Oregon State)
1989: #2 Seed - Joel Greenlee (Northern Iowa)

Greenlee seems like his best win. He was a 2x AA. (2nd and 4th).
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  #17  
Old 04-15-19, 12:12 PM
goldentornado goldentornado is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boro Fan View Post
At first glance, Haselrig’s ranking stuck out to me as well.

I went back and looked at his NCAA performances and he didn’t beat any previous national champs or national finalists.

His national title wins were over:
1987: #5 Seed - Dean Hall (Edinboro)
1988: Unseeded - Dave Orndorff (Oregon State)
1989: #2 Seed - Joel Greenlee (Northern Iowa)

Greenlee seems like his best win. He was a 2x AA. (2nd and 4th).
Its hard to beat the the defending national champ when you are the defending the national champ, which Haselrig was. it was Haselrig's job to beat the guy in front of him not set up the bracket. At the moment he is the only 6 time NCAA champion
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  #18  
Old 04-15-19, 02:35 PM
Boro Fan Boro Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldentornado View Post
Its hard to beat the the defending national champ when you are the defending the national champ, which Haselrig was. it was Haselrig's job to beat the guy in front of him not set up the bracket. At the moment he is the only 6 time NCAA champion
He will remain the only 6 time champ. If they would have allowed D1 guys to wrestle in D2 or another division, their would be MANY 6+ time national champions.
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Old 04-15-19, 04:41 PM
goldentornado goldentornado is offline
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Originally Posted by Boro Fan View Post
He will remain the only 6 time champ. If they would have allowed D1 guys to wrestle in D2 or another division, their would be MANY 6+ time national champions.
last time i checked Haselrig wasn't a D1 guy wrestling in D2. He was a D2 guy wrestling in the D1 national tournament.
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  #20  
Old 04-15-19, 05:03 PM
MPhillips MPhillips is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldentornado View Post
last time i checked Haselrig wasn't a D1 guy wrestling in D2. He was a D2 guy wrestling in the D1 national tournament.
Not sure what Boro Fan was getting at?
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  #21  
Old 04-15-19, 05:27 PM
Yankeefan33 Yankeefan33 is offline
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Originally Posted by MPhillips View Post
Not sure what Boro Fan was getting at?
Saying that Haselrig is the "only" 6-time champ is a bit disingenuous. Only D2 wrestlers were ever given the opportunity- guessing if you give 3x champs before Haselrig the opportunity (Schultz/Carr/Zalesky/Kemp/Churella/Davis/etc) there would be plenty more 6x champs.
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Old 04-15-19, 05:36 PM
MPhillips MPhillips is offline
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Why would a DI wrestler wrestle down to win a DII championship? What am I missing here?
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  #23  
Old 04-15-19, 05:53 PM
Yankeefan33 Yankeefan33 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPhillips View Post
Why would a DI wrestler wrestle down to win a DII championship? What am I missing here?
I think the overall point is that while calling Haselrig a 6x champ is technically true, it is missing a large caveat in that the best D1 wrestlers could only win four. Haselrig was obviously a D1 talent that happened to wrestle D2- if he would have wrestled D1 the whole time he would just be "another" three time champ (as if that's not an amazing accomplishment). When I think of Haselrig I just usually go with 3x champ
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Old 04-15-19, 05:55 PM
MPhillips MPhillips is offline
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Of course. Who doesn't understand this?
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  #25  
Old 04-15-19, 09:03 PM
Boro Fan Boro Fan is offline
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YankeeFan understood what I was saying.
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  #26  
Old 04-15-19, 11:24 PM
goldentornado goldentornado is offline
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Originally Posted by Yankeefan33 View Post
Saying that Haselrig is the "only" 6-time champ is a bit disingenuous. Only D2 wrestlers were ever given the opportunity- guessing if you give 3x champs before Haselrig the opportunity (Schultz/Carr/Zalesky/Kemp/Churella/Davis/etc) there would be plenty more 6x champs.
the difference is that Haselrig was wrestling up .
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Old 04-16-19, 06:57 AM
MPhillips MPhillips is offline
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YankeeFan understood what I was saying.
To be fair...Yankeefan is brilliant.
I'm pretty certain we all understand that tOSU could win a division II FB championship. The question is WHY would they? Same for DI wrestlers wrestling DII. It's a silly comparrison.
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  #28  
Old 04-16-19, 01:33 PM
Yankeefan33 Yankeefan33 is offline
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Originally Posted by MPhillips View Post
To be fair...Yankeefan is brilliant.
I'm pretty certain we all understand that tOSU could win a division II FB championship. The question is WHY would they? Same for DI wrestlers wrestling DII. It's a silly comparrison.
Im seriously debating picking David Carr to win the US Open. Brilliant I am not
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  #29  
Old 04-16-19, 04:08 PM
MPhillips MPhillips is offline
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Brilliant I am not
Boro may disagree.
Has Carr registered, or am I just missing him?
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  #30  
Old 04-16-19, 05:42 PM
Yankeefan33 Yankeefan33 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPhillips View Post
Boro may disagree.
Has Carr registered, or am I just missing him?
He's registered seniors at 70kg, but James Green has registered recently so I take that back.

Ill post a different thread next week on the Open. Been checking FloArena way too often for my own good these last couple days
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