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  #31  
Old 11-20-18, 10:59 PM
Hoosier Parent Hoosier Parent is online now
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Arrogance is the camouflage of insecurity.
Nice
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  #32  
Old 11-26-18, 02:14 PM
coachg coachg is offline
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Looks like to me the Cincinnati DA is doing pretty well against some rather good clubs. http://www.ussoccerda.com/sam/standi...partialGames=1
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  #33  
Old 11-26-18, 04:42 PM
Empty CUP Empty CUP is offline
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Originally Posted by coachg View Post
Looks like to me the Cincinnati DA is doing pretty well against some rather good clubs. http://www.ussoccerda.com/sam/standi...partialGames=1

The 05's and 04's are doing well against nobody. the 03/02 and 01/00's are not doing well against those nobody's. That's not entirely fair Nationals has fielded some good teams.

The 04's were 4th last year behind Eclipse, Hawks and Indy Fire. Those 3 clubs left for the ECNL, and they moved to 1st in the division. Hawks and Eclipse sent teams to the playoffs from the 3 eligible age groups, Fire sent 2, CDA sent 1 and they did poorly.

"Our league is not good enough to field enough high caliber games anymore, we have to play outside games" Someone from the DA/USSF had to say that out loud in a meeting. Ouch...

I would be very worried if I were CU/CUP, and as I said it seems like they are.

Since only the 14's played in the fall, look at this sh*t show.

CUP Gold / Bottom half of National league Premier 1 with a losing record

CUP North (aka CUP Black) / Dead last in National league Premier 2 with no wins and 1 goal for 35 against. I've never seen a CUP branded team that bad, and I've seen a lot of CUP teams the last 10 years

CUP South (AKA CUP Black) / Dead last in National league first division 2/8/0 with -25 goal differential

CU SE 1 / 1 win in Buckeye State

CU LM 1 / Only 1 win in Buckeye Elite

CU SE 2 / Losing record in Buckeye Premier 3

CU SM 1 / 1 win in Buckeye Challenge 2

That's a lot to be worried about if you're a power that be on the board
for CU/CUP, after all the awesome past success in the W/L Column that they hung their hats on
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  #34  
Old 11-26-18, 05:19 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Both CUP North and South cannot be considered the old version of Black. That doesn't even make sense. They may both be considered 2nd teir within the club, but that would be an2nd tier that is split between 2 teams based on geographic location. That alone would make North and South teams lesser than any Black team.

With the addition of the CDA, you have essentially made CUP Gold a 2nd tier team. Then when you get to North, South, and Southeast being primarily geography, you are talking 4th, 5th, 6th tier level teams. You cannot make direct comparisons between current and past teams based on names, because they aren't the same and can't be the same.

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  #35  
Old 11-26-18, 07:18 PM
Empty CUP Empty CUP is offline
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If you had been paying attention to what Pickup has been doing with the south you'd know that's incorrect. CDA at 05 is a mix of 3 clubs great teams, CUP North, South and Hammer Red.

Still have to put the CUP name on the product. And that's the problem. Teams outside of the ECNL used to respect and even fear the name, with people showing a desire to join that, even if it was just to say they played at CUP, Now???
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  #36  
Old 11-27-18, 06:44 AM
Manmythlegeng66 Manmythlegeng66 is offline
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Another issue that I saw and I am by no means an expert...I heard that OE had a huge influx of 05 girls from Cup. If I have my info correct most were put directly on the ECNL team that is now dominating tournament and league play (I dont think they lost a game). The girls that were not of interest to Tim were put on the Academy team. I am no expert but that is what I heard second hand. I imagine if DA opens up HS play there will be some more shifting again, maybe girls going back to Cup or girls going over to Cup that may have had opportunities close up at other clubs. The whole DA/HS thing does scare away a lot of parents. Also, I believe Cup has made things way too difficult by splitting teams up the way they have. I think they should just take the best girls and just label them Premier, Elite, and so on...do away with this Cup North, Cup South and so on labels
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  #37  
Old 11-27-18, 09:06 AM
Snooper Snooper is offline
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Originally Posted by Manmythlegeng66 View Post
Another issue that I saw and I am by no means an expert...I heard that OE had a huge influx of 05 girls from Cup. If I have my info correct most were put directly on the ECNL team that is now dominating tournament and league play (I dont think they lost a game). The girls that were not of interest to Tim were put on the Academy team. I am no expert but that is what I heard second hand. I imagine if DA opens up HS play there will be some more shifting again, maybe girls going back to Cup or girls going over to Cup that may have had opportunities close up at other clubs. The whole DA/HS thing does scare away a lot of parents. Also, I believe Cup has made things way too difficult by splitting teams up the way they have. I think they should just take the best girls and just label them Premier, Elite, and so on...do away with this Cup North, Cup South and so on labels
The 05 DA team is 90% CUP Gold from last year and 10% KHA Red (although that KHA team won the Region and lost in the National Final). If anybody on the OE ECNL 05s is from CUP, then they're most likely CUP Black.
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  #38  
Old 11-27-18, 09:18 AM
coachg coachg is offline
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Originally Posted by Empty CUP View Post
The 05's and 04's are doing well against nobody. the 03/02 and 01/00's are not doing well against those nobody's. That's not entirely fair Nationals has fielded some good teams.

The 04's were 4th last year behind Eclipse, Hawks and Indy Fire. Those 3 clubs left for the ECNL, and they moved to 1st in the division. Hawks and Eclipse sent teams to the playoffs from the 3 eligible age groups, Fire sent 2, CDA sent 1 and they did poorly.

"Our league is not good enough to field enough high caliber games anymore, we have to play outside games" Someone from the DA/USSF had to say that out loud in a meeting. Ouch...

I would be very worried if I were CU/CUP, and as I said it seems like they are.

Since only the 14's played in the fall, look at this sh*t show.

CUP Gold / Bottom half of National league Premier 1 with a losing record

CUP North (aka CUP Black) / Dead last in National league Premier 2 with no wins and 1 goal for 35 against. I've never seen a CUP branded team that bad, and I've seen a lot of CUP teams the last 10 years

CUP South (AKA CUP Black) / Dead last in National league first division 2/8/0 with -25 goal differential

CU SE 1 / 1 win in Buckeye State

CU LM 1 / Only 1 win in Buckeye Elite

CU SE 2 / Losing record in Buckeye Premier 3

CU SM 1 / 1 win in Buckeye Challenge 2

That's a lot to be worried about if you're a power that be on the board
for CU/CUP, after all the awesome past success in the W/L Column that they hung their hats on
I doubt anyone with any soccer knowledge is overly worried. Changes were made and now the shake out is going on. People for years have been use to CUP dominating everything but add two teams in front of CUP Gold and well Gold is not going to be the same. I am not sure why that's hard to grasp for you. So now its:

DA (CUP Gold)
CDA (CUP Black)
post DA- CUP GOLD ( CUP Silver)

There are some very good players at CUP and on the CU side in the 04 and 05 age groups that you mentioned and there teams doing well even on the CU side. So I would say the future looks good for them not to mention all the very good teams at the younger ages. I suggest you look beyond CUP and look at what some CU teams are doing before saying much more about the club.

DA / CUP
05s two players went to OE from CUP- I would bet one left because they were not offered a DA spot.

Looking at the DA rosters it appears they are super young:

U17 is designed for 02/03 and 14 of the 18 on the roster are 03s.
U19 is designed for 00/01.. they are 4 00's a couple of 01's and the rest are 02's.

I would bet if they used just single birth years in the age group they would dominate everyone. It appears they knew there would be growing pains and they put kids in positions to be developed and be successful is what appears to have happened.

As for OE in these age groups.

U13s 3 wins / 4 losses / 2 draws
U14s - 5 wins / 2 losses / 2 draws - I do like watching this team play.
The HS age groups have not played enough games yet to even mention them yet.


I know facts don't support your arguments but what major influx of players went from DA / CUP to OE ECNL? From what I have seen by looking at roster's is that 7 or 8 players left OE ECNL and moved to DA and the CDA in the last 12 months. Maybe there is something happening at the local ECNL club that is causing this I dont know but if that continues and becomes a trend OE may need to be worried.

Most of this could have been resolved years ago if the powers that be at the ECNL would have let CUP in but they didnt due to adult ego and politics. So bash all you want and thump your OE ECNL chest this year but the future is not as good at the ECNL.

Last edited by coachg; 11-27-18 at 10:29 AM..
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  #39  
Old 11-27-18, 09:33 AM
Snooper Snooper is offline
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Originally Posted by coachg View Post

Most of this could have been resolved years ago if the powers that be at the ECNL would have let CUP in but they didnt do to adult ego and politics. So bash all you want and thump your OE ECNL chest this year but the future is not as good at the ECNL.
TOTALLY agree with you on this. I'd have to say that the crazy "merger" to create a new club just to get the DA in Cincinnati would never have happened as well. IMHO, there's no reason that CUP and KHA weren't part of ECNL outside of ego & politics.

Reminds me of the promotion / relegation issue that MLS faces....
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  #40  
Old 11-27-18, 11:33 AM
Iniesta Iniesta is offline
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Originally Posted by coachg View Post
I doubt anyone with any soccer knowledge is overly worried. Changes were made and now the shake out is going on. People for years have been use to CUP dominating everything but add two teams in front of CUP Gold and well Gold is not going to be the same. I am not sure why that's hard to grasp for you. So now its:

DA (CUP Gold)
CDA (CUP Black)
post DA- CUP GOLD ( CUP Silver)
I agree it won't really matter. If anything, I think it keeps more kids in the system ($$$). CU will still dominate the U-littles and that's where parents with no soccer knowledge will be looking. By the time the CUP Gold becomes essentially a third team, everyone knows what is going on.

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Originally Posted by coachg View Post

Most of this could have been resolved years ago if the powers that be at the ECNL would have let CUP in but they didnt due to adult ego and politics. So bash all you want and thump your OE ECNL chest this year but the future is not as good at the ECNL.
Well as things stand the (local) powers that be have competitive advantage in the market. Why would they give that up? There is no answer with a shred of intellectual integrity other than, "they wouldn't."
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  #41  
Old 11-27-18, 11:44 AM
5x26 5x26 is offline
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Not sure how we ended up here but ok.

I have an 05 daughter on the OE ECNL team. I also have 2 other daughters that play or played at OE and a son who plays there. I was a coach at WC, I ref and I'm personally friends with CoachG who has been VERY good to my daughter.

The team had 18 on the roster last year, 15 this year. Mine played on the 04's last year and is joined by seven other new girls. Three from CUP Gold North, 2 who were easily in the top 3 or 4 on the team and yes they were offered DA, Two from CUP gold south, one from CUP North Black, and a girl from Indy Fire who moved to Mason. (Of note her older sister who's very talented played on the DA last year but picked OE over CDA)

The team is good, and fun to watch but not undefeated. 8-3-2 in ECNL play and 9-0-0 outside the league including 7 wins against NL teams. Tim has done an exceptional job with these girls and 12 of the 15 have scored. That's pretty cool in my eyes.

I know exactly why the CUP girls left but it's not my place to share. I will say they are all happy they made the choice, and the exodus is likely not over. We chose to stay at OE because of Tim and Doug's coaching, the Culture of the club (They have been exceptionally good to my family), the level of talent and exposure in the ECNL, along with the freedom. Like it or not the level of DA talent here in the Midwest is poor. Adding Nationals after the big boys left could have helped the 05's but most of their top talent left for Hawks since they have 2 ECNL teams. I was told by a top national coach that you need your kids to play 10-15% better teams, 70-80% equal teams and 10-15% lesser teams to really develop properly. The DA talent is very strong in the Southwest and Texas, but otherwise it's not great with the exception of a team or two in each conference. Not being mean just the reality. My daughter has a number of friends she'd love to play with on that DA team, it's just not where she wants to be for many reasons.

As a business man I always struggled to understand the merits of combining two competing clubs to form the DA. Makes more sense to me that they pull the CDA premier teams if that's their plan. Talking to people with older girls most say the last year and a half has been a disappointment. I hope all the very talented girls find a home that lets them develop, grow and chase their dreams, regardless of where it is. I'm fortunate to know where that place is for us.
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  #42  
Old 11-27-18, 12:19 PM
5x26 5x26 is offline
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And coachg at least for the 05's it played out like this.

*DA is Mainly CUP Gold North, with 3 From KHA red, and 2 from CUP Gold South and an outside girl.
*CDA Premier is mostly KHA RED, with 2 Cup Gold North, an 2 CUP Black including the keeper
*CUP Gold is the rest of the CUP Gold South kids, that did not go DA or ECNL and 1 Gold North, and a couple CUP North black girls.

That CUP Gold South team was a great team, very sound all over the field, out played and should have beaten CUP North when they played head to head in state cup. If not for the late game heroics of the North Gold girl that came to OE, South would have moved on. So it's really not like CUP Gold is CUP Silver. It's more like a Gold hybrid.
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  #43  
Old 11-27-18, 01:10 PM
coachg coachg is offline
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Not sure how we ended up here but ok.

I have an 05 daughter on the OE ECNL team. I also have 2 other daughters that play or played at OE and a son who plays there. I was a coach at WC, I ref and I'm personally friends with CoachG who has been VERY good to my daughter.

The team had 18 on the roster last year, 15 this year. Mine played on the 04's last year and is joined by seven other new girls. Three from CUP Gold North, 2 who were easily in the top 3 or 4 on the team and yes they were offered DA, Two from CUP gold south, one from CUP North Black, and a girl from Indy Fire who moved to Mason. (Of note her older sister who's very talented played on the DA last year but picked OE over CDA)

The team is good, and fun to watch but not undefeated. 8-3-2 in ECNL play and 9-0-0 outside the league including 7 wins against NL teams. Tim has done an exceptional job with these girls and 12 of the 15 have scored. That's pretty cool in my eyes.

I know exactly why the CUP girls left but it's not my place to share. I will say they are all happy they made the choice, and the exodus is likely not over. We chose to stay at OE because of Tim and Doug's coaching, the Culture of the club (They have been exceptionally good to my family), the level of talent and exposure in the ECNL, along with the freedom. Like it or not the level of DA talent here in the Midwest is poor. Adding Nationals after the big boys left could have helped the 05's but most of their top talent left for Hawks since they have 2 ECNL teams. I was told by a top national coach that you need your kids to play 10-15% better teams, 70-80% equal teams and 10-15% lesser teams to really develop properly. The DA talent is very strong in the Southwest and Texas, but otherwise it's not great with the exception of a team or two in each conference. Not being mean just the reality. My daughter has a number of friends she'd love to play with on that DA team, it's just not where she wants to be for many reasons.

As a business man I always struggled to understand the merits of combining two competing clubs to form the DA. Makes more sense to me that they pull the CDA premier teams if that's their plan. Talking to people with older girls most say the last year and a half has been a disappointment. I hope all the very talented girls find a home that lets them develop, grow and chase their dreams, regardless of where it is. I'm fortunate to know where that place is for us.
Well said. I will add though that despite a few clubs leaving the DA there is an assumption that the DA will not be in those cities any more and if the DA does exist in those places there is no guarantee that the players will move with their clubs back to the ECNL but could opt to continue to play for the DA.

As for the business decision to on the merits of forming the DA I think it's a good idea as now they get the best players from both clubs and do draw a few from others. If there was a true system for moving kids up with one high level youth league then the best players would be on the best teams. I wouldn't say the talent in the DA is poor at all after looking at how young each team is.

The one thing I have said for years is that not every coach is best for every kid nor is every club or league. We are blessed to have such great opportunities in the area for kids to choose from but it's also a curse of sorts in that not always does the top talent move to the same teams.

I am a second tier coach like one yappi user on here called me trying to insult me. I found it funny because I know I am and I enjoy my role. I could devote myself full time to coaching hone my skills more and be a top coach but I dont for two reasons 1. I like what I do now as a coach and 2. I like the money from my current full time job. I have had 21 players in last 3 years move during tryouts to higher level teams be it DA, CUP, or ECNL and I love watching them do it. I love helping to develop young talent. I have managed that despite all the player movement to have a team that still competes very well and beating OE, CUP and other very talented teams.

I have a former player I love currently playing for on OE's ECNL team and I am happy for her. I am blessed I still get to see her play and even have her come and play for me from time to time. I am blessed also that I am welcoming to all players despite whoever their current club is. I have gotten to know and watch another player enjoy OE since she was young and I have gotten to know her and her wonderful family. We do rib each other from time to time all in good fun and I respect their decision on where to play as they know whats best for their kid. I hope I get to continue to watch them play for years to come and that they make their soccer dreams come true.

Many on here have accused me of hating OE let me clear it up very quickly. My issue has nothing to do with the players but instead their leadership and their non-inclusiveness that I saw when I was the club rep for WC from even before they applied to be in the old TCYSA when they came to a meeting to ask for our support of them to join the league so they could exist. (Yeah I know I am getting old. I even remember CU being Sycamore Arsenal) I wish all players the best of luck and hope they get everything from the game they want no matter what club they are in. I just wish the adults could sit down and put ego's aside for the betterment of the players. If they did this I bet they would find that the best player would move to the best teams and the money they are worried about would actually increase. I won't hold my breath for that to happen though. In old posts I have defended DB when people have said horrible things about him because from what I can see he is a talented coach and is good to his players.
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  #44  
Old 11-27-18, 03:25 PM
5x26 5x26 is offline
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Thanks coach.

I want to clear up something I said that may be taken wrong. The talent across the rest of the DA clubs in the midwest is not what it should be, (NOT CDA) for the level of play they are trying to achieve. But that is because in most cases they were mid level Regional teams, some not even that and they were thrown into the DA league, it's not their fault. They just have no business playing at that level.

I can tell you there are some truly awesome players in the 05 age group at CDA DA. And I know the older ages have some great players too, as I have both watched and ref'd them. I am not trying to disparage those girls at all.
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  #45  
Old 11-28-18, 08:59 AM
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Thanks coach.

I want to clear up something I said that may be taken wrong. The talent across the rest of the DA clubs in the midwest is not what it should be, (NOT CDA) for the level of play they are trying to achieve. But that is because in most cases they were mid level Regional teams, some not even that and they were thrown into the DA league, it's not their fault. They just have no business playing at that level.

I can tell you there are some truly awesome players in the 05 age group at CDA DA. And I know the older ages have some great players too, as I have both watched and ref'd them. I am not trying to disparage those girls at all.
I know that.
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  #46  
Old 11-28-18, 09:15 AM
Hoosier Parent Hoosier Parent is online now
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Kind of puts you in the Christmas spirit!
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  #47  
Old 11-29-18, 09:37 AM
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Kind of puts you in the Christmas spirit!
I think these days we are suppose to say "Happy HolidayS" but since we on YAPPI are politically incorrect we can say MERRY CHRISTMAS!!
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  #48  
Old 11-29-18, 09:38 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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I think these days we are suppose to say "Happy HolidayS" but since we on YAPPI are politically incorrect we can say MERRY CHRISTMAS!!
Why would anyone care if you said merry Christmas?

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  #49  
Old 11-29-18, 04:43 PM
fearthekeeper fearthekeeper is offline
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Looks like CDA is doing fairly well on the National stage so far:

A US Youth Soccer National League Update for Day 1:

Cincinnati Development Academy 4-3 Greater Seattle Surf 00A
CDA Premier 01G 4-0 PSA National 01G
Total Futbol Academy Elite 01 1-3 FC Frederick 01G
CDA Premier 02G 2-0 Rise SC 02G Elite 1
CDA Premier 03G 3-0 Keystone FC Premier 03G
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  #50  
Old 11-29-18, 11:29 PM
Hoosier Parent Hoosier Parent is online now
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Originally Posted by fearthekeeper View Post
Looks like CDA is doing fairly well on the National stage so far:

A US Youth Soccer National League Update for Day 1:

Cincinnati Development Academy 4-3 Greater Seattle Surf 00A
CDA Premier 01G 4-0 PSA National 01G
Total Futbol Academy Elite 01 1-3 FC Frederick 01G
CDA Premier 02G 2-0 Rise SC 02G Elite 1
CDA Premier 03G 3-0 Keystone FC Premier 03G
Yeah, but even that's relative. National League has been relagated to second tier (Depending on opinion) to third (less arguable).

After creation of DA, MRL Prem ll went to Prem l, and Prem l went to National league. Not sure what the format will look like with the restructuring but it's still the same teams.
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  #51  
Old 11-30-18, 08:05 AM
coachg coachg is offline
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Yeah, but even that's relative. National League has been relagated to second tier (Depending on opinion) to third (less arguable)..
UMM isn't CDA the second tier under DA? Can't you say congrats and good luck the rest of the way?
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  #52  
Old 11-30-18, 08:23 AM
CitrusCrunch CitrusCrunch is offline
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fesitvus is over
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  #53  
Old 11-30-18, 08:57 AM
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UMM isn't CDA the second tier under DA? Can't you say congrats and good luck the rest of the way?
If that’s the case then why is a so called 1st tier OE ECNL 00/01 team down in Raleigh playing composite teams? The division above had ECNL teams playing which would seem to be more “comparable “ would they not? Why slum? Those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
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  #54  
Old 11-30-18, 10:31 AM
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WHO CARES. Glad to see this has quickly turned into the ECNL vs DA debate, again.

It's all about money, and will always be about money. You think US Club-ECNL is going to fold to join US Soccer and the DA or vice versa? Heck no.. To many egos, club making money and people being paid big salaries. It's a business.
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  #55  
Old 11-30-18, 11:12 AM
Bucknut3 Bucknut3 is offline
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WHO CARES. Glad to see this has quickly turned into the ECNL vs DA debate, again.

It's all about money, and will always be about money. You think US Club-ECNL is going to fold to join US Soccer and the DA or vice versa? Heck no.. To many egos, club making money and people being paid big salaries. It's a business.
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  #56  
Old 11-30-18, 09:10 PM
Hoosier Parent Hoosier Parent is online now
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If that’s the case then why is a so called 1st tier OE ECNL 00/01 team down in Raleigh playing composite teams? The division above had ECNL teams playing which would seem to be more “comparable “ would they not? Why slum? Those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
I don't know, but nobody's congratulating OE on doing well on the national stage this weekend.
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  #57  
Old 11-30-18, 09:23 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by Hoosier Parent View Post
I don't know, but nobody's congratulating OE on doing well on the national stage this weekend.
Well if you are looking for congrats on this thread why should you see it? The title of the thread is about CDA, not OE.

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  #58  
Old 11-30-18, 09:27 PM
Hoosier Parent Hoosier Parent is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
Well if you are looking for congrats on this thread why should you see it? The title of the thread is about CDA, not OE.

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Keep up Philly, nobody's trolling for compliments. Apologies, Bucknut, I stand corrected. There's a lot of DI commits on that roster.
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Old 12-03-18, 08:56 AM
coachg coachg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier Parent View Post
I don't know, but nobody's congratulating OE on doing well on the national stage this weekend.
Post the results and I am happy to congratulate all the local teams no matter the club!!
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Old 12-03-18, 08:24 PM
jed the fish show jed the fish show is offline
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was at South Carolina ECNL this weekend and to say ECNL is currently watered down is an understatement.....and it was obvious down the line as well in Raleigh. Just sayin.
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