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  #1  
Old 11-19-18, 02:43 PM
Empty CUP Empty CUP is offline
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CDA issues

So I hear the Director got fired.

The CDA "pre" DA teams are folding next season because it's destroying the CUP and Hammer brand.

And the level of competition for the actual DA teams in this region since the 3 big boys (Eclipse, Hawks and Indy Fire) took their ball and went back to the ECNL, is somewhere between the old MRL First division and OSSL. And the older teams are still struggling even with that! How does that happen.

Gee where did I hear this was gonna happen before...Hope the good girls get out while they still can.
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  #2  
Old 11-19-18, 03:18 PM
Upper 90 Upper 90 is offline
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Saw a Tweet from CDA congratulating everyone on a great HS season, thought that was a little strange. Did they cave and let a bunch of players play this fall? It almost seemed like an advertisement that hey, we will let you play HS. Could have been harmless.
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  #3  
Old 11-19-18, 03:56 PM
Snooper Snooper is offline
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CDA Premier (aka Pre-DA) was an "oh-crap" afterthought when the folks that put the club together realized that the DA rules only allow Development Players (guest players) to play on the DA team from other teams within the club. This meant that the players that chose not to play DA and stay with CUP Gold or KHA Red could NOT be moved up to the DA team.... hence the need to create a 2nd tier team within CDA. The obvious outcome of this was the immediate dilution of both CUP's and KHA's top girls teams.

Ultimately, it was a short-sighted solution that has a much longer-term impact on both of those clubs and their ability to draw players at the younger age-groups. High-quality kids that aren't drinking the "I want to play on the National Team" koolaid pretty much have to play CDA Premier --- or go to the ECNL (which has happened big-time this year).

Since the leaders of both CUP and KHA have turned over, it's no surprise that they rethink the whole CDA concept.
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  #4  
Old 11-19-18, 05:39 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snooper View Post
CDA Premier (aka Pre-DA) was an "oh-crap" afterthought when the folks that put the club together realized that the DA rules only allow Development Players (guest players) to play on the DA team from other teams within the club. This meant that the players that chose not to play DA and stay with CUP Gold or KHA Red could NOT be moved up to the DA team.... hence the need to create a 2nd tier team within CDA. The obvious outcome of this was the immediate dilution of both CUP's and KHA's top girls teams.

Ultimately, it was a short-sighted solution that has a much longer-term impact on both of those clubs and their ability to draw players at the younger age-groups. High-quality kids that aren't drinking the "I want to play on the National Team" koolaid pretty much have to play CDA Premier --- or go to the ECNL (which has happened big-time this year).

Since the leaders of both CUP and KHA have turned over, it's no surprise that they rethink the whole CDA concept.
I don't think the problem is the pre-da teams. It would appear to me the problem is the merger of two clubs to create a separate DA club. That never seemed like a smart thing to me, especially when you have the two original clubs still existing. That never seemed like a smart move. To me it would seem like the most viable option, in order for the new business to exist properly, is for the two forming businesses to dissolve and fully commit to the new business. Otherwise you are stuck with two competing businesses that are in a partnership, yet still competing against each other.

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  #5  
Old 11-19-18, 06:47 PM
Snooper Snooper is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
I don't think the problem is the pre-da teams. It would appear to me the problem is the merger of two clubs to create a separate DA club. That never seemed like a smart thing to me, especially when you have the two original clubs still existing. That never seemed like a smart move. To me it would seem like the most viable option, in order for the new business to exist properly, is for the two forming businesses to dissolve and fully commit to the new business. Otherwise you are stuck with two competing businesses that are in a partnership, yet still competing against each other.

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Yes -- I 100% agree with you on that.

Cincinnati had two very competitive girls clubs in CUP and KHA that both wanted to get the DA (since they were never going to get invited to ECNL for obvious reasons). Going together was the only sure fire way to get it. But going together in such a strange / hybrid way seems to have not been too smart.
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  #6  
Old 11-19-18, 07:11 PM
fearthekeeper fearthekeeper is offline
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Originally Posted by Empty CUP View Post
So I hear the Director got fired.

The CDA "pre" DA teams are folding next season because it's destroying the CUP and Hammer brand.

And the level of competition for the actual DA teams in this region since the 3 big boys (Eclipse, Hawks and Indy Fire) took their ball and went back to the ECNL, is somewhere between the old MRL First division and OSSL. And the older teams are still struggling even with that! How does that happen.

Gee where did I hear this was gonna happen before...Hope the good girls get out while they still can.
CDA has multiple Directors, which one are you referring to?

You also mention that CDAP is “folding” Is this your opinion or just a rumor? CDA still seems to be pushing both programs.
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  #7  
Old 11-19-18, 07:56 PM
Empty CUP Empty CUP is offline
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Phil "THE" Director of the academy and the Technical director for CUP. You know the guy they kept bumping up because he was such a big deal with the US national team. I'll leave it at that because it's not nice to dog a guy when he's down, regardless of my feelings.

They will get through the 18-19 season and move on to save the clubs in the future. Flipping these girls to Hammer/CUP where they came from possibly 2 years ago in some cases it going to cause headaches for the older girls, that are looking to get commitments may cause some pre DA teams to stick around till they evolve out. And no it's not my opinion, heard it from two of my daughters old coaches at CUP. Maybe they were both wrong, but nobody is scared of CUP Gold or Hammer Red anymore. And the 2nd teams are actually bad. Not just not good, but bad.

This was a bad idea to start with, we all saw it coming. Even if many didn't want to see it, it was there all along. BAD IDEA...Heck they had to just put predetermined kids regardless of skill on the "Pre" Da team at the younger age just so they could have numbers to keep their US Youth soccer rankings. That's laughable, I heard it was going to happen before it actually happened, but the same coaches confirmed it to me. No wonder the CUP gold teams have beaten the Pre teams in the U14 age groups the last couple years head to head. It's not skill it's just names on a roster. But people $$$ BUY $$$ into it. WOW!!!

And holy cow, I looked closer at the level of competition in the mid american region for the DA. I was mistaken. More like Buckeye State and OSSL, not even close to MRL level especially at the U14 and U15 level. And that's without that awful Minnesota school in the mix for the 14's. And 2 clubs have no older girls so the region is just 6 average teams and the CDA can't break away from that pack? What the heck.

I guess when they say a sucker is born every minute, it's actually true.
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  #8  
Old 11-19-18, 09:21 PM
Snooper Snooper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty CUP View Post
Phil "THE" Director of the academy and the Technical director for CUP. You know the guy they kept bumping up because he was such a big deal with the US national team. I'll leave it at that because it's not nice to dog a guy when he's down, regardless of my feelings.

They will get through the 18-19 season and move on to save the clubs in the future. Flipping these girls to Hammer/CUP where they came from possibly 2 years ago in some cases it going to cause headaches for the older girls, that are looking to get commitments may cause some pre DA teams to stick around till they evolve out. And no it's not my opinion, heard it from two of my daughters old coaches at CUP. Maybe they were both wrong, but nobody is scared of CUP Gold or Hammer Red anymore. And the 2nd teams are actually bad. Not just not good, but bad.

This was a bad idea to start with, we all saw it coming. Even if many didn't want to see it, it was there all along. BAD IDEA...Heck they had to just put predetermined kids regardless of skill on the "Pre" Da team at the younger age just so they could have numbers to keep their US Youth soccer rankings. That's laughable, I heard it was going to happen before it actually happened, but the same coaches confirmed it to me. No wonder the CUP gold teams have beaten the Pre teams in the U14 age groups the last couple years head to head. It's not skill it's just names on a roster. But people $$$ BUY $$$ into it. WOW!!!

And holy cow, I looked closer at the level of competition in the mid american region for the DA. I was mistaken. More like Buckeye State and OSSL, not even close to MRL level especially at the U14 and U15 level. And that's without that awful Minnesota school in the mix for the 14's. And 2 clubs have no older girls so the region is just 6 average teams and the CDA can't break away from that pack? What the heck.

I guess when they say a sucker is born every minute, it's actually true.
Well, with Bobby, then Tiff, then the next guy all gone, it would certainly seem that it might be time for the partner clubs to rethink things.
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  #9  
Old 11-20-18, 09:13 AM
pure class pure class is offline
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dont be surprised to see the DA badge go to some youth level form of FC cincinnati - which is actually how it should be - no loyalty, no affiliation and they simply have tryouts for a true city wide DA team - boys and girls sides.

The solution is for KHA and CUP to join the ECNL but that will never happen and the leagues (MRL and NL) keep getting watered down. While I think that CUP still has some very good coaches, they also have the coaches that are all in to marketing an image. It is too bad that it has gotten so expensive.
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  #10  
Old 11-20-18, 09:41 AM
Snooper Snooper is offline
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Originally Posted by pure class View Post
dont be surprised to see the DA badge go to some youth level form of FC cincinnati - which is actually how it should be - no loyalty, no affiliation and they simply have tryouts for a true city wide DA team - boys and girls sides.

The solution is for KHA and CUP to join the ECNL but that will never happen and the leagues (MRL and NL) keep getting watered down. While I think that CUP still has some very good coaches, they also have the coaches that are all in to marketing an image. It is too bad that it has gotten so expensive.
Spot-on. Doesn't the new FCC facility have an "academy" section as part of the plan already?

It is a total SHAME that the two best clubs in the area couldn't join the ECNL to begin with. Politics. Suck.
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  #11  
Old 11-20-18, 09:49 AM
fearthekeeper fearthekeeper is offline
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Originally Posted by Snooper View Post
Spot-on. Doesn't the new FCC facility have an "academy" section as part of the plan already?

It is a total SHAME that the two best clubs in the area couldn't join the ECNL to begin with. Politics. Suck.
FCC is going to have an Academy, but only for Boys
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  #12  
Old 11-20-18, 09:55 AM
Snooper Snooper is offline
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Originally Posted by fearthekeeper View Post
FCC is going to have an Academy, but only for Boys
I imagine that there are some large incentives for KHA to get the girls DA into FCC and disband the CDA... and I think there are some pretty strong KHA / FCC ties to make that happen. And I don't see CUP complaining too much about getting their girls program back in the process either...
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  #13  
Old 11-20-18, 09:57 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by Snooper View Post
I imagine that there are some large incentives for KHA to get the girls DA into FCC and disband the CDA...
What makes you say this?


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  #14  
Old 11-20-18, 11:06 AM
Snooper Snooper is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
What makes you say this?


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The incentive for both KHA and CUP is to actually have meaningful girls programs beyond U12 (when CDA sucks all the top kids away).
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  #15  
Old 11-20-18, 11:50 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by Snooper View Post
The incentive for both KHA and CUP is to actually have meaningful girls programs beyond U12 (when CDA sucks all the top kids away).
Ok, but you made it seem like there is some reason why FCC would factor in there. FCC has said zero about having a girls academy. I'm finding it hard to see why they would have a girls academy.

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  #16  
Old 11-20-18, 11:52 AM
yapster2017 yapster2017 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty CUP View Post
So I hear the Director got fired.

The CDA "pre" DA teams are folding next season because it's destroying the CUP and Hammer brand.

And the level of competition for the actual DA teams in this region since the 3 big boys (Eclipse, Hawks and Indy Fire) took their ball and went back to the ECNL, is somewhere between the old MRL First division and OSSL. And the older teams are still struggling even with that! How does that happen.

Gee where did I hear this was gonna happen before...Hope the good girls get out while they still can.


When BP left it was the beginning of the end for CUP and the CDA. He had the unique ability to sell parents on the soccer glory that awaited them and their children. He strategically coached the younger teams and trained them nonstop to create an advantage during the youth years. He helped them develop faster and recruited aggressive athletes that could help his teams win at the younger ages. Once the great equalizer would hit (puberty) he would vamoose and disappear to the next youth team. When players caught up and the playing field was equal he was nowhere to be found and parents couldn’t see what had happened.

The development of a player takes time and most don’t have the patience for that maturation process. It’s like baking a pie on 500 sure the outside looks done but the inside is far from done. This is similar to a soccer player in that it takes time for the inside of a player to develop. The promise of National teams and winning at a young age is a dangerous illusion that too often destroys the young players growth and development.


Christian Lavers has a great article about IDENTIFYING AND WATCHING A DEVELOPEMENTAL SABOTEUR. This is a great read for soccer parents to understand how soccer works and what to look out for.
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  #17  
Old 11-20-18, 12:25 PM
Upper 90 Upper 90 is offline
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Here is something from their FAQ's:

We firmly believe FC Cincinnati has an obligation to raise the standard of all soccer in our region, regardless of gender.

FC Cincinnati currently provides significant financial support to Cincinnati DA, the local girls’ entry in U.S. Soccer’s Girls Development Academy. We sponsor the program as we currently do not have any girls’ teams or a women’s professional entry.

However, in the coming years, we plan to apply for an NWSL expansion team, which would play in Cincinnati and alongside our MLS team at our soon-to-be-built West End stadium. Coupled with that, it is our goal to launch girls’ youth development programming, including USSD-eligible youth teams. A timeline for those activities has not been determined.
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  #18  
Old 11-20-18, 12:31 PM
Snooper Snooper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yapster2017 View Post
When BP left it was the beginning of the end for CUP and the CDA. He had the unique ability to sell parents on the soccer glory that awaited them and their children. He strategically coached the younger teams and trained them nonstop to create an advantage during the youth years. He helped them develop faster and recruited aggressive athletes that could help his teams win at the younger ages. Once the great equalizer would hit (puberty) he would vamoose and disappear to the next youth team. When players caught up and the playing field was equal he was nowhere to be found and parents couldn’t see what had happened.

The development of a player takes time and most don’t have the patience for that maturation process. It’s like baking a pie on 500 sure the outside looks done but the inside is far from done. This is similar to a soccer player in that it takes time for the inside of a player to develop. The promise of National teams and winning at a young age is a dangerous illusion that too often destroys the young players growth and development.


Christian Lavers has a great article about IDENTIFYING AND WATCHING A DEVELOPEMENTAL SABOTEUR. This is a great read for soccer parents to understand how soccer works and what to look out for.
No arguing that BP wasn't a good salesman and stacked younger teams with bigger more athletic girls... but the CUP Gold teams across the post-pubescent age-groups were consistently at the top of the National League, so I'm not sure that what you're saying applies.
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Old 11-20-18, 12:32 PM
Snooper Snooper is offline
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Originally Posted by Upper 90 View Post
Here is something from their FAQ's:

We firmly believe FC Cincinnati has an obligation to raise the standard of all soccer in our region, regardless of gender.

FC Cincinnati currently provides significant financial support to Cincinnati DA, the local girls’ entry in U.S. Soccer’s Girls Development Academy. We sponsor the program as we currently do not have any girls’ teams or a women’s professional entry.

However, in the coming years, we plan to apply for an NWSL expansion team, which would play in Cincinnati and alongside our MLS team at our soon-to-be-built West End stadium. Coupled with that, it is our goal to launch girls’ youth development programming, including USSD-eligible youth teams. A timeline for those activities has not been determined.
Bingo.
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Old 11-20-18, 01:39 PM
Empty CUP Empty CUP is offline
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Interestingly it was "required" that NWSL teams have a DA club, after a year 2 of the top NWSL clubs dropped their Girls DA affiliation. More are leaving.

Here locally unless they can somehow find quality clubs to join the DA, and that seems to be in short supply with the exodus to "all-in" status for the ECNL, It wont matter because the best players will settle out of the league just as the best clubs in the region have, so it'll be insignificant if its called CDA or FCC.
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Old 11-20-18, 02:04 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by Empty CUP View Post
Interestingly it was "required" that NWSL teams have a DA club, after a year 2 of the top NWSL clubs dropped their Girls DA affiliation. More are leaving.

Here locally unless they can somehow find quality clubs to join the DA, and that seems to be in short supply with the exodus to "all-in" status for the ECNL, It wont matter because the best players will settle out of the league just as the best clubs in the region have, so it'll be insignificant if its called CDA or FCC.
Man, you are one negative dude

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  #22  
Old 11-20-18, 02:50 PM
fearthekeeper fearthekeeper is offline
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Originally Posted by Snooper View Post
The incentive for both KHA and CUP is to actually have meaningful girls programs beyond U12 (when CDA sucks all the top kids away).
Wouldn't the meaningful program beyond U12 be the CDA/CDAP? It would stand to reason that combining the best players from 2 clubs would make some really talented teams.
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  #23  
Old 11-20-18, 03:21 PM
Hoosier Parent Hoosier Parent is offline
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The DA seems good in concept. A CUP/KHA merger would seem like a superclub.

The whole HS thing seems like a foolish thing for the DA to hang their hang their hat on. HS is like 5 games of the DA season.
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Old 11-20-18, 03:31 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by Hoosier Parent View Post
The DA seems good in concept. A CUP/KHA merger would seem like a superclub.

The whole HS thing seems like a foolish thing for the DA to hang their hang their hat on. HS is like 5 games of the DA season.
The boys DA have the same rules and they survive just fine.

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Old 11-20-18, 06:14 PM
Hoosier Parent Hoosier Parent is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
The boys DA have the same rules and they survive just fine.

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I'd argue CDA lost at least three significant contributers this year because of high school. One even went pre-DA as an alternative so she could play HS.
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Old 11-20-18, 06:33 PM
fearthekeeper fearthekeeper is offline
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Originally Posted by Hoosier Parent View Post
I'd argue CDA lost at least three significant contributers this year because of high school. One even went pre-DA as an alternative so she could play HS.
I would think that as the program matures, more and more kids will forgo HS. THese first couple of years consisted of kids already in HS and having already played a year or two of HS soccer. The 2005 group is the first sample size of kids who have not played HS prior to making the decision. With the amount of knucklehead HS coaches and the fact that your HS coach has no bearing on the next level, would lead me to believe the CDA will only strengthen over the next few years.
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Old 11-20-18, 06:52 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by Hoosier Parent View Post
I'd argue CDA lost at least three significant contributers this year because of high school. One even went pre-DA as an alternative so she could play HS.
I was actually talking more about the entirety of the DA program, not just Cincinnati area. But the point about beginning with players that have already been with a high school team rings pretty true. No one in any of these discussions about the DA on Yappi seem to have any sort of patience. It's all "this is a failure or a raging success" and it all has to be right now.

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Old 11-20-18, 06:55 PM
Hoosier Parent Hoosier Parent is offline
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All good points. I just presume HS is so important based on my Mia's experience. We'll see.
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Old 11-20-18, 07:27 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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All good points. I just presume HS is so important based on my Mia's experience. We'll see.
It is........until, well, it isn't anymore lol

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Old 11-20-18, 08:10 PM
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