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  #1  
Old 05-25-14, 12:50 AM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Article: Football coaches, OHSAA can compromise on offseason workout regulations

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The passion and pride of Ohio’s high school football coaches flows from every corner of the state.

Talk to Chillicothe coach Ron Hinton for five minutes and the intensity for his craft emerges. Chad Grandstaff at Zanesville, Mike Pavlansky at Canfield, Bill Franks at Newark Catholic, Erik Will at Shelby and Ryan Teglovic at Colonel Crawford all share passion for their positions, too.

However, they do not move in lockstep.

Case in point: The Ohio High School Football Coaches Association has offered a proposal to the Ohio High School Athletic Association that would expand access to an unlimited number of players for offseason drill work. As everyone involved has stated repeatedly, this is not spring football with pads or hitting, and not a forerunner of it.

Presently, coaches in all sports can work with four players at a time out of season.

The OHSAA, the sanctioning body of Ohio high school sports, is pondering the proposal, but no decision looms.
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http://www.zanesvilletimesrecorder.c...ut-regulations

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  #2  
Old 06-18-14, 11:14 PM
Texaslonghorn60 Texaslonghorn60 is offline
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Has to happen!!! The southern schools have a HUGE advantage over the Midwest.
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  #3  
Old 06-18-14, 11:25 PM
cjb56 cjb56 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texaslonghorn60 View Post
Has to happen!!! The southern schools have a HUGE advantage over the Midwest.
In what way?
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  #4  
Old 06-19-14, 12:12 AM
Oil Filter Oil Filter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texaslonghorn60 View Post
Has to happen!!! The southern schools have a HUGE advantage over the Midwest.
That "advantage" is only relevant to kids who directly compete against kids from other regions. That competition is almost solely limited to scholarships. And that concerns only a miniscule number of kids.

So... how many kids will this really help?
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  #5  
Old 06-19-14, 06:14 AM
cjb56 cjb56 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oil Filter View Post
That "advantage" is only relevant to kids who directly compete against kids from other regions. That competition is almost solely limited to scholarships. And that concerns only a miniscule number of kids.

So... how many kids will this really help?
I agree that making rules that cater to the few who are capable of realistically earning a D1 scholarship is a poor practice. When you get right down to the debate over Ohio expanding football practice and implementing spring football, you get a whole host of different reasons why it's supposedly needed, but in the end most of the supporters admit it's really about convenience for college recruiters.

The other big issue I'm seeing with the wording of this proposal is high school football coaches being afraid they will no longer be needed in the process, same as how high school basketball and high school baseball coaches are no longer important in the recruiting world. It's getting there already with all the camps and combines where kids can directly show colleges the size/speed/athleticism they look for in a recruit. The game at the college and pro level is getting to where they are looking for superior athletes they can coach into football players. If the kid already happens to be a productive, skilled high school football player it's a nice bonus. Again, the wording of this proposal looks more like some coaches concerned they are in danger of no longer being needed as the trends of club sports replacing high school sports as the primary season for kids continues to grow. Football is next and these coaches know it and are hoping to hold it off.
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  #6  
Old 06-19-14, 07:10 AM
Texaslonghorn60 Texaslonghorn60 is offline
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First , for any child to be able to capitalize on an opportunity to get money (scholarship) to go to a university, how can that be viewed by ANYONE as an negative. There are so many post and preseason leagues for baseball(fall leagues), basketball (AAU), track(indoor track) for kids in our region to get better and get more exposure to colleges and universities. College recruiters will always recruit kids they will just recruit else were. Plus teams with indoor facilities have an ENORMOUS advantage on schools such as the ones in the inner city to prepare for a season. Look at the facts and judge from that vantage point. Football is the ONLY major high school sport in our region that doesn't have off season sports or unlimited contact with coaches..
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  #7  
Old 06-19-14, 07:23 AM
queencitybuckeye queencitybuckeye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texaslonghorn60 View Post
First , for any child to be able to capitalize on an opportunity to get money (scholarship) to go to a university, how can that be viewed by ANYONE as an negative.
Every benefit has a cost. There are certainly downsides.
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  #8  
Old 06-19-14, 07:24 AM
cjb56 cjb56 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texaslonghorn60 View Post
First , for any child to be able to capitalize on an opportunity to get money (scholarship) to go to a university, how can that be viewed by ANYONE as an negative. There are so many post and preseason leagues for baseball(fall leagues), basketball (AAU), track(indoor track) for kids in our region to get better and get more exposure to colleges and universities. College recruiters will always recruit kids they will just recruit else were. Plus teams with indoor facilities have an ENORMOUS advantage on schools such as the ones in the inner city to prepare for a season. Look at the facts and judge from that vantage point. Football is the ONLY major high school sport in our region that doesn't have off season sports or unlimited contact with coaches..
Ohio kids yet still somehow find their way on rosters of college football teams all across the nation.

How about we structure HS football for the 98% of kids who will never play college football at any level?
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  #9  
Old 06-19-14, 07:28 AM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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Originally Posted by Texaslonghorn60 View Post
First , for any child to be able to capitalize on an opportunity to get money (scholarship) to go to a university, how can that be viewed by ANYONE as an negative.
The amount of academic based aid/scholarships available dwarfs the amount of athletic scholarships available, by orders of magnitude.

Kids and their families would be far better served used this off-season time on tutoring than off-season team practices. Off-season football will help the coaches and "the team", but will do very little in the way of helping individual kids improve their scholarship potential. Strength, agility, and academics can all be worked on throughout the year and those are the 3 most important "difference makers".
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  #10  
Old 06-19-14, 10:43 AM
Texaslonghorn60 Texaslonghorn60 is offline
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That might be OK for kids whose parents can afford a higher education but what about the kids in urban areas that can't . ANY advantage for those kids is an advantage. I'm speaking from an angle of experience. Also, no one still hasn't addressed the advantages suburban schools have over inner city schools when it comes to preparedness. I've seen it with my own eyes teams in Ohio with indoor facilities and the DO have spring practices. The issue is that if it doesn't directly effect you and yours , you don't care.
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  #11  
Old 06-19-14, 10:48 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texaslonghorn60 View Post
That might be OK for kids whose parents can afford a higher education but what about the kids in urban areas that can't . ANY advantage for those kids is an advantage. I'm speaking from an angle of experience. Also, no one still hasn't addressed the advantages suburban schools have over inner city schools when it comes to preparedness. I've seen it with my own eyes teams in Ohio with indoor facilities and the DO have spring practices. The issue is that if it doesn't directly effect you and yours , you don't care.
Why can't urban kids work on their academics? He is saying there is more money available for academic prowess than athletic prowess. If it is indeed about getting kids in college that is.
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  #12  
Old 06-19-14, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texaslonghorn60 View Post
That might be OK for kids whose parents can afford a higher education but what about the kids in urban areas that can't .
Those kids are far more likely to receive aid for academic accomplishments than for athletic. If you're about helping kids, you should be advocating for tutors, expanded curricula, vouchers, and the like.

But you seem to disagree. So, tell us how many additional urban kids would get athletic scholarships based on the benefits of expanded off-season workouts. 5? 10? 100? 1000?

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Originally Posted by Texaslonghorn60 View Post
Also, no one still hasn't addressed the advantages suburban schools have over inner city schools when it comes to preparedness. I've seen it with my own eyes teams in Ohio with indoor facilities and the DO have spring practices.
Which schools (plural) have indoor facilities?

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Originally Posted by Texaslonghorn60 View Post
The issue is that if it doesn't directly effect you and yours , you don't care.
No, the issue is that you don't let the tail wag the dog. You don't set policy for all based on benefits for a miniscule few.
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  #13  
Old 06-19-14, 11:32 AM
Texaslonghorn60 Texaslonghorn60 is offline
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Let's get to the facts.
First, its seems that your assuming that urban kids need a huge amount of help when it comes to academics and that's not true. I work in a public school system in a major city in Ohio and my wife is a teacher. The problem is FACILITIES!!! Kids in the Inner city have a HUGE disadvantage when it comes to what they have at their access.
FACT: kids from inner city schools are 67% less likely to be exepted into a university compared to their counterparts in private and/or suburban schools. I had kids from a inner city school were I worked who had over a 3.5 accumulative GPA that didn't get money to go to school for academics but did for athletics. THATS A FACT.

Second. Massillon has an indoor facility and there's team up in Cleveland that practices in some as well. Whether its one or a thousand, its an advantage. I care about inner city kids PERIOD and that's my passion because disconnected people from the suburbs aren't. Stop assuming ALL inner city school kids are illiterate and can't count. They just don't have the resources the better areas have....
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  #14  
Old 06-19-14, 11:45 AM
cjb56 cjb56 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texaslonghorn60 View Post
Let's get to the facts.
First, its seems that your assuming that urban kids need a huge amount of help when it comes to academics and that's not true. I work in a public school system in a major city in Ohio and my wife is a teacher. The problem is FACILITIES!!! Kids in the Inner city have a HUGE disadvantage when it comes to what they have at their access.
FACT: kids from inner city schools are 67% less likely to be exepted into a university compared to their counterparts in private and/or suburban schools. I had kids from a inner city school were I worked who had over a 3.5 accumulative GPA that didn't get money to go to school for academics but did for athletics. THATS A FACT.

Second. Massillon has an indoor facility and there's team up in Cleveland that practices in some as well. Whether its one or a thousand, its an advantage. I care about inner city kids PERIOD and that's my passion because disconnected people from the suburbs aren't. Stop assuming ALL inner city school kids are illiterate and can't count. They just don't have the resources the better areas have....
Most colleges actively seek out minority students who have 3.0+ GPA's for admission and grant money. It's there for the kids who want it. The problem in the poor areas, for all races, is often their own household. You can't fix that without a major sea change in society as a whole.
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  #15  
Old 06-19-14, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texaslonghorn60 View Post
The problem is FACILITIES!!!
How do extra workouts build those facilities?

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Originally Posted by Texaslonghorn60 View Post
I had kids from a inner city school were I worked who had over a 3.5 accumulative GPA that didn't get money to go to school for academics but did for athletics.
There are kids who received all-state recognition who earned academic scholarships and no money for athletics.

One or two kids prove nothing. And if you're actively trumpeting athletics as a viable way out of poverty for the average kid, you're delusional.

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Originally Posted by Texaslonghorn60 View Post
Massillon has an indoor facility and there's team up in Cleveland that practices in some as well. Whether its one or a thousand, its an advantage.
Perhaps you should should note that those indoor facilities (and whatever advantage they supposedly offer) will remain even if OHSAA permits additional workouts. How do you propose to eliminate that advantage?

BTW, you never did answer the question: how many additional kids will get athletic scholarships if OHSAA allows expanded offseason workouts?
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  #16  
Old 06-19-14, 11:53 AM
Texaslonghorn60 Texaslonghorn60 is offline
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Cjb56
TRUE on the final portion of your statement. But don't you think spring football would help Inner city kids advocate for their grades more and keep them out of the streets. YES YES YES....
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  #17  
Old 06-19-14, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texaslonghorn60 View Post
Let's get to the facts.
First, its seems that your assuming that urban kids need a huge amount of help when it comes to academics and that's not true. I work in a public school system in a major city in Ohio and my wife is a teacher. The problem is FACILITIES!!! Kids in the Inner city have a HUGE disadvantage when it comes to what they have at their access.
FACT: kids from inner city schools are 67% less likely to be exepted into a university compared to their counterparts in private and/or suburban schools. I had kids from a inner city school were I worked who had over a 3.5 accumulative GPA that didn't get money to go to school for academics but did for athletics. THATS A FACT.

Second. Massillon has an indoor facility and there's team up in Cleveland that practices in some as well. Whether its one or a thousand, its an advantage. I care about inner city kids PERIOD and that's my passion because disconnected people from the suburbs aren't. Stop assuming ALL inner city school kids are illiterate and can't count. They just don't have the resources the better areas have....
So let me get this straight.....you're saying that Massillon has spring practices? Is that correct?
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  #18  
Old 06-19-14, 12:03 PM
Texaslonghorn60 Texaslonghorn60 is offline
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Why would you think they don't. Come on now......
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  #19  
Old 06-19-14, 12:25 PM
cjb56 cjb56 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texaslonghorn60 View Post
Cjb56
TRUE on the final portion of your statement. But don't you think spring football would help Inner city kids advocate for their grades more and keep them out of the streets. YES YES YES....
What I would rather see in some of these inner-cities are some groups of black and hispanic graduates of Ivy League schools, and some other fine public and private schools...who were student-athletes while in college and used their education, and the connections made in college, to move on to great lives outside of athletics...host some camps that combine sports with academics. They can spread the message that doing well in school can allow you to get a great college education that will open doors, while also getting to enjoy four more years of competing in a sport.
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  #20  
Old 06-19-14, 01:13 PM
Texaslonghorn60 Texaslonghorn60 is offline
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Well said....I agree
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  #21  
Old 06-19-14, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Texaslonghorn60 View Post
Why would you think they don't. Come on now......
Why would you think they do?
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  #22  
Old 06-19-14, 08:24 PM
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I'm still waiting to hear how expanded practice will build facilities. Or how many additional kids will get scholarships because of expanded practice. Or how only two schools in the state have access to indoor practice facilities, but they nonetheless represent an unfair advantage that can be remedied only by increasing the number of practice days for everyone. Or how he knows that Massillon conducts illegal spring practices indoors.

In short, we're all waiting for the first coherent, on point, fact-based argument.
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  #23  
Old 06-19-14, 10:28 PM
Texaslonghorn60 Texaslonghorn60 is offline
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If you don't know how then you'll never know. With some people , its pointless. Lol...WOW... What's crazy is,if you look at your questions hard enough,the answer's right there. I'm amazed by this type of dialog sometimes!!!
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  #24  
Old 06-19-14, 10:34 PM
Oil Filter Oil Filter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texaslonghorn60 View Post
If you don't know how then you'll never know. With some people , its pointless. Lol...WOW... What's crazy is,if you look at your questions hard enough,the answer's right there. I'm amazed by this type of dialog sometimes!!!
I'm amazed at your dodging.

Let's take these one at a time: if OHSAA adopts extra practice sessions, how many additional players do you think will receive scholarships every year?
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  #25  
Old 06-20-14, 08:11 AM
Texaslonghorn60 Texaslonghorn60 is offline
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If a player who gets MORE EXPOSURE in the spring that doesn't normally get exposure do to spring football, OBVIOUSLY his chances of getting a scholarship is higher. Plus, the more you work at your craft, the better you are. Case and point. THE S.E.C. and the southern recruits.Just listen to the college coaches. It not rocket science!!!
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  #26  
Old 06-20-14, 08:13 AM
Texaslonghorn60 Texaslonghorn60 is offline
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You can't argue with someone who does this for a living.
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  #27  
Old 06-20-14, 08:26 AM
serpico serpico is offline
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There are only so many scholarships out there. What happens when a rich kid from an Ohio suburb gets a scholarship due in part to exposure in the spring? He could be taking away the scholarship of an inner city kid from another state.

Would you be okay with that?
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  #28  
Old 06-20-14, 08:45 AM
Texaslonghorn60 Texaslonghorn60 is offline
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Yes!!! Its not about who gets help according to their financial status,its about leveling the playing field across the board. Ask yourself, why is it that high school football players from southern school are almost ALWAYS on the top of the lists as the best players. Is that because southern football is better. To me ,NO. But the exposer is more prevalent. If a rich kid gets a scholarship, so be it. That means he was deserving.
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Old 06-20-14, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Texaslonghorn60 View Post
Yes!!! Its not about who gets help according to their financial status,its about leveling the playing field across the board. Ask yourself, why is it that high school football players from southern school are almost ALWAYS on the top of the lists as the best players. Is that because southern football is better. To me ,NO. But the exposer is more prevalent. If a rich kid gets a scholarship, so be it. That means he was deserving.
I'm still waiting. Why do you think that Massillon has illegal off season practices?
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Old 06-20-14, 10:16 AM
Texaslonghorn60 Texaslonghorn60 is offline
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Why did they build an indoor facility?? Look, everybody has illegal practices "according to the rules". Come on, you can not be that delusional.
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