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  #31  
Old 06-24-17, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
Thanks for confirming my assessment of your MO in here, all while lamely attempting to deflect and ignoring the clarification.

You are pathetic, e_p.
What a POS you are:

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
I don't believe for a minute that other top coaches could not have achieved very similar results with the same roster and opponents, that's all. Neither do you, unless you're a moron or Phil's mom.
You'd rather argue semantics of paraphrasing because you can't defend your stupid position.
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  #32  
Old 06-24-17, 08:45 AM
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Btw, I assume Popovich is one of those top coaches you think could have duplicated Phil's success, but he had the best power forward in the NBA and a top 5-10 center for his first 5 years and only claimed 1 title. Phil took 3 straight titles during that timeframe. Both teams were pretty equally LOADED with talent and Phil outperformed him.

In fact, Kobe and Shaq with Dell Harris were swept by Duncan and Robinson with Popo prior to Phil's arrival. After that, Phil rolls to 3 straight titles over Popo with Duncan and Robinson.
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  #33  
Old 06-24-17, 06:03 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
....
In fact, Kobe and Shaq with Dell Harris were swept by Duncan and Robinson with Popo prior to Phil's arrival. After that, Phil rolls to 3 straight titles over Popo with Duncan and Robinson.
A 4 and a 5. Got it. Those positions alone won't win titles, goof. Not even in the late 90's. I bet his perimeter rotations didn't have anyone that stood out enough to get much more than 30 minutes a game. Avery Johnson, Kerr, and some guys.

So Pop does something about it. Parker and Ginobli are drafted, developed, and Phil's championship "drought" from '02-'08 begins. Phil gets to the Finals twice in those 5 seasons but can't win. Was that HIS fault ? I think it had a little to do with unavoidable player match-ups, like Pop's falling short.

Nice basketball look here. Good job of being direct for a change. You didn't really try to misrepresent anything.
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  #34  
Old 06-24-17, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
A 4 and a 5. Got it. Those positions alone won't win titles, goof. Not even in the late 90's. I bet his perimeter rotations didn't have anyone that stood out enough to get much more than 30 minutes a game. Avery Johnson, Kerr, and some guys.

So Pop does something about it. Parker and Ginobli are drafted, developed, and Phil's championship "drought" from '02-'08 begins. Phil gets to the Finals twice in those 5 seasons but can't win. Was that HIS fault ? I think it had a little to do with unavoidable player match-ups, like Pop's falling short.

Nice basketball look here. Good job of being direct for a change. You didn't really try to misrepresent anything.
That's the best 4 in NBA history and a top 10 5 and you are making excuses? Okay. And yes, it's Phil's fault he didn't win the championship in 9 seasons, definitely poor coaching. Good call there.
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  #35  
Old 06-24-17, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
That's the best 4 in NBA history and a top 10 5 and you are making excuses? Okay.
This^ is plain stupid, so it's of little surprise coming from you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
And yes, it's Phil's fault he didn't win the championship in 9 seasons, definitely poor coaching. Good call there.
Now, this second part, once again, is you inventing an argument and pretending I said it. I followed a rhetorical question with a simple explanation of why the Lakers lost Western or NBA Finals for that run of seasons that anyone reading above a middle school level could follow, but that doesn't stop you from claiming I said the opposite for those 5 years and 4 more. You can't rebut what I actually wrote and still feel like you are carrying your argument.

Poor little eastside_poser deflecting and fighting another battle with a strawman argument. You poor pathetic goof
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  #36  
Old 06-24-17, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
This^ is plain stupid, so it's of little surprise coming from you.



Now, this second part, once again, is you inventing an argument and pretending I said it. You can't rebut what I wrote and still feel like you are carrying your argument.

Poor little eastside_poser deflecting and fighting another battle with a strawman argument. You poor pathetic goof
What did you say that I couldn't rebuy? The Spurs had arguably the best 4 in the history of the game and a top-10 5. That duo beat Shaq and Kobe prior to Phil's arrival, after Phil arrived he won 3 straight titles. Pretty easy to show Phil was the difference there and was the better coach. In any event, you claimed top coaches could have had the same success as Phil, so which ones?

Btw, the strawman and lying accusations are pretty weak, even for you.
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  #37  
Old 06-26-17, 07:24 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
Jerry Krause for MVExec ? Or Jerry West...

You yourself called Pippen top 50 all time in another thread once. Someone was even proposing top 25. Was that you ? Horace Grant wasn't "great talent" at the 4 in 1994 ? Bulls-crap. You aren't claiming that, are you ? That was a pretty good defensive team even w/o MJ. Every one of those men had pride incentivizing them to "prove" that they weren't just Jordan's supporting cast.

Off on a tangent for a second here, but that's^ a far cry from what happens when LBJ leaves the Cavs, huh ? That^ kind of supports the LBJ=GOAT argument. And azzhats are going to point to his Finals record in individual comparison to Jordan. Compare Antawn Jamison to Grant for a minute.

Back about two or three of your usernames ago, maybe when Blatt got kicked to the curb, there was a conversation in the NBA forum here in which there was widespread agreement that the NBA HC has a lesser impact on the outcome of a game when compared to the other major sports. Jackson gets credit for installing that triangle offense, but how many of those 55 also happen with another excellent contemporary NBA coach ? I'd say most, and maybe one or two that "Phil lost" that year. Jackson's greatest strength as a Head Coach and in establishing his legacy may have been choosing the right jobs.

Contrary to the idiot e_p's assertions, I never claimed Jackson wasn't a great coach. I slammed him as a GM and called him Mike Holmgren, but all I said in reference to his coaching career was - "He's not succeeded as a coach without an alpha like MJ or Kobe to set the tone, and maybe even be his 'bad cop'." - It's a great dynamic, and maybe even a necessity in an environment where many starters out-earn the Head Coach. The only real alternative is the Brady or Duncan humble star acquiescing to the Belichick or Pop type Coach. I don't believe for a minute that other top coaches could not have achieved very similar results with the same roster and opponents, that's all. Neither do you, unless you're a moron or Phil's mom.

The rest is either you lot being led around by his strawman argument or maybe simply piling on with your purple queen, like drod.
I didn't read this past the first couple sentences because you go off an a tangent (shocker!) and I don't care enough to read your ramblings.

That being said, I can very much think Pippen is a top 50 player all time (possible top 25) and still think Phil Jackson in 93-94 is one of the greatest coaching seasons in NBA history. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. The fact they won 2 less games without the GOAT, losing to the Knicks in 7 games a team they beat in 6 the year before with Jordan. That is an incredibly impressive coaching job. To suggest otherwise is moronic.

Edit: Ohhhh went back and read the first part of the tangent. I love when people bring up the differences between the 2009-10 Cavs and the 2010-11 Cavs because it shows how little they truly know about the NBA! Let's look at players on each Cavs team that played at least 1000 minutes (we'll include 2010-11 Varejao because he fell 6 minutes short):

2009-10:
LeBron James
Anthony Parker
Varejao
Hickson
West
Gibson
Moon
Shaq
Z

2010-11:
Hickson
Sessions
Parker
Gibson
Jamison
Hollins
Williams
Varejao

Major differences in the teams:
No LeBron
No Shaq
No Z
Varejao played in 31 games
Mo Williams played in 36
Antwuan Jamison, played in 56 games in 2010-11. He was acquired at the deadline in 2009-10 and thus did not log 1000 minutes with the Cavs that year. So not included on the list. He did play over 2400 minutes that year between the Wizards and Cavs tho.

But yes, the only reason the Cavs went from 61 wins to 19 wins is LeBron.

Last edited by Taco MacArthur; 06-26-17 at 07:49 AM..
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  #38  
Old 06-26-17, 07:44 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
That's the best 4 in NBA history and a top 10 5 and you are making excuses? Okay. And yes, it's Phil's fault he didn't win the championship in 9 seasons, definitely poor coaching. Good call there.
Yeah, it definitely had nothing to do with Kupchak putting together a terrible roster during that time frame. Hell, the 3rd best player in like 2005 was Smush Parker.
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  #39  
Old 06-26-17, 08:21 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
I didn't read this past the first couple sentences because you go off an a tangent (shocker!) and I don't care enough to read your ramblings.

That being said, I can very much think Pippen is a top 50 player all time (possible top 25) and still think Phil Jackson in 93-94 is one of the greatest coaching seasons in NBA history. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. The fact they won 2 less games without the GOAT, losing to the Knicks in 7 games a team they beat in 6 the year before with Jordan. That is an incredibly impressive coaching job. To suggest otherwise is moronic.

Edit: Ohhhh went back and read the first part of the tangent. I love when people bring up the differences between the 2009-10 Cavs and the 2010-11 Cavs because it shows how little they truly know about the NBA! Let's look at players on each Cavs team that played at least 1000 minutes (we'll include 2010-11 Varejao because he fell 6 minutes short):

2009-10:
LeBron James
Anthony Parker
Varejao
Hickson
West
Gibson
Moon
Shaq
Z

2010-11:
Hickson
Sessions
Parker
Gibson
Jamison
Hollins
Williams
Varejao

Major differences in the teams:
No LeBron
No Shaq
No Z
Varejao played in 31 games
Mo Williams played in 36
Antwuan Jamison, played in 56 games in 2010-11. He was acquired at the deadline in 2009-10 and thus did not log 1000 minutes with the Cavs that year. So not included on the list. He did play over 2400 minutes that year between the Wizards and Cavs tho.

But yes, the only reason the Cavs went from 61 wins to 19 wins is LeBron.
No one but you said that^ itt. Don't be a little e_p.

Shaq was essentially useless in Cleveland. Z was gone in '10 in the same 3-way trade that brought Jamison in.

Major similarities in the team from '10 to '11.

In Jamison's Time with the Cavs and Lebron in '10, he was +9.1. Without Lebron the following year he was -10.1.
Anthony Parker went from +9.0 to -7.2.
***Jamison and Parker likely got the bulk of the shots that would have been LBJs
Daniel Gibson went from +8.9 to -5.3 after LeBron.
JJ Hickson, not really a scorer, with LeBron in '10 is +2.1, and -11.9 post-LBJ. He went back to the 5 in '11 as Shaq and Z were gone, but he had been 6.8 better at the 5 with LBJ in '09 than w/o in '11.

Would Phil coaching the Cavs in '11 have saved a few games ? Probably. Double digit total in added wins ? Probably not.

Last edited by cabezadecaballo; 06-26-17 at 08:33 AM..
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  #40  
Old 06-26-17, 08:33 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
No one but you said that^ itt. Don't be a little e_p.

Shaq was essentially useless in Cleveland. Z was gone in '10 in the same 3-way trade that brought Jamison in.

Major similarities in the team from '10 to '11.

In Jamison's Time with the Cavs and Lebron in '10, he was +9.1. Without Lebron the following year he was -10.1.
Daniel Gibson went from +8.9 to -5.3 after LeBron.
Anthony Parker went from +9.0 to -7.2.
JJ Hickson, not really a scorer, with LeBron in '10 is +2.1, and -11.9 post-LBJ. He went back to the 5 in '11 as Shaq and Z were gone, but he had been 6.8 better at the 5 with LBJ in '09 than w/o in '11.

Would Phil coaching the Cavs in '11 have saved a few games ? Probably. Double digit total in added wins ? Probably not.
"I definitely implied it but didn't directly say it now I'll argue semantics over it" defense rarely works out for you yet you continue to employ it.

Shaq was a double digit scorer, meh rebounder and a plus defender at age 37 for the Cavs. He posted an above league average PER that year. Was he his former MVP self? No he was 37. He was hardly useless. Z still played in 64 games and posted over 1300 minutes for the Cavs.

And yeah, LeBron is a top 5 player of all time. Of course he makes people better. What's your point?

What does Phil have to do with the 2010-11 Cavs? Those were two different arguments, both of which you have lost.
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  #41  
Old 06-26-17, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
"I definitely implied it but didn't directly say it now Imma argue semantics over it" defense rarely works out for you yet you continue to employ it.

And yeah, LeBron is a top 5 player of all time. Of course he makes people better. What's your point?
It fails to convince you two clowns and the rest of the clones, of course, because you are playing the strawman game in the first place You just keep braying the same jackazz narratives.

I have no problem making an absolute and definitive statement about something when I choose. I don't merely "imply" something if I have an absolute opinion, but I will introduce another variable when examining a complex issue.

Why you clowns enjoy twisting stuff up to misrepresent the position of another poster instead of asking what is truly intended is beyond me. Don't you goofs get bored in failing to anger people ?
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  #42  
Old 06-26-17, 08:43 AM
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In before "Oh no. You ARE mad!!!"
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  #43  
Old 06-26-17, 10:15 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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I'm shocked cabe, losing both arguments badly, has stopped talking about either subject at hand.
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  #44  
Old 06-26-17, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
"I definitely implied it but didn't directly say it now I'll argue semantics over it" defense rarely works out for you yet you continue to employ it.

Shaq was a double digit scorer, meh rebounder and a plus defender at age 37 for the Cavs. He posted an above league average PER that year. Was he his former MVP self? No he was 37. He was hardly useless. Z still played in 64 games and posted over 1300 minutes for the Cavs.

And yeah, LeBron is a top 5 player of all time. Of course he makes people better. What's your point?

What does Phil have to do with the 2010-11 Cavs? Those were two different arguments, both of which you have lost.
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
I'm shocked cabe, losing both arguments badly, has stopped talking about either subject at hand.


There you go again. Twice.

Please remind me - what is the argument that you two goofs are pretending that I made about Phil Jackson ? Quote my post.

Then, a half-rebuttal to a value judgement I made about Shaq's actual impact. He was touted to be there to protect LeBron. I don't think that shook out in playoff games.

You're not even an idiot. You're an idiot's accomplice
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  #45  
Old 06-26-17, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
I'm shocked cabe, losing both arguments badly, has stopped talking about either subject at hand.
Yeah, he lied badly when he tried to claim I said a 4 and a 5 alone could win titles when I said Pop having the best 4 in history and a top-10 5 was a wealth of talent on par with anything Phil had. And the ironic thing is the Spurs actually won a title with those guys against Kobe and Shaq prior to Phil joining the Lakers. Weirdo is such a hypocritical POS.
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  #46  
Old 06-26-17, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
There you go again. Twice.

Please remind me - what is the argument that you two goofs are pretending that I made about Phil Jackson ? Quote my post.

Then, a half-rebuttal to a value judgement I made about Shaq's actual impact. He was touted to be there to protect LeBron. I don't think that shook out in playoff games.

You're not even an idiot. You're an idiot's accomplice
Well I'm paraphrasing your super weird comment, but you implied Phil needed "alpha" players like Jordan and Bryant. Which is fine, all NBA coaches need alpha leaders and great talent to win. But then you went on to say any/many/whatever top coaches could have duplicated Phil's success. I asked you to name some, you didn't. I then went on to compare Phil to top-coach (your wet dream) Popovich. You failed badly to rebut that comparison and just simply engaged in lying accusations based on semantics of paraphrasing your account. Anyway, bottom line, you're a moron who seems to know very little.
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  #47  
Old 06-26-17, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Well I'm paraphrasing your super weird comment, but you implied Phil needed "alpha" players like Jordan and Bryant. Which is fine, all NBA coaches need alpha leaders and great talent to win. But then you went on to say any/many/whatever top coaches could have duplicated Phil's success. I asked you to name some, you didn't. I then went on to compare Phil to top-coach (your wet dream) Popovich. You failed badly to rebut that comparison and just simply engaged in lying accusations based on semantics of paraphrasing your account. Anyway, bottom line, you're a moron who seems to know very little.
I merely made the observation that Phil, Mr "zenmaster", had not succeeded without Jordan and Bryant - similar dominant personalities that put significant pressure on their teammates. That's not to say that there is no other way for him to lead, and only YOU said that. Jackson clearly made use of Jordan and Bryant to push their teammates - and only an idiot would deny that. It's a distinct possibility that the clown Shaq's messing with that "formula" is why they got rid of the best 5 ever in him - even after getting Phil's first 3 championships in LA with him.

When I don't take the strawman argument bait you offer, it's then YOU first mentioning Popovich. I have no idea why you'd call him my "wet dream", but I don't know why you make up any of the bucket after bucket of crap that you post in here. I can't understand why this would be enjoyable for you, but it must be. It's what you do, for some reason.
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  #48  
Old 06-26-17, 12:10 PM
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You goofs should take a lesson from drod. He throws out rando comments that semi-support the clone games, but he doesn't overplay like you two goofs. You just look stupid in trying so hard to create something that isn't there.
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  #49  
Old 06-26-17, 12:26 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
There you go again. Twice.

Please remind me - what is the argument that you two goofs are pretending that I made about Phil Jackson ? Quote my post.

Then, a half-rebuttal to a value judgement I made about Shaq's actual impact. He was touted to be there to protect LeBron. I don't think that shook out in playoff games.

You're not even an idiot. You're an idiot's accomplice
....if there was no argument re: Phil.....what have nearly all of your posts in this thread been about?

To the bold: This ignores the fact you: 1) have yet to name one coach that could be called great even in years in which they lacked great talent; 2) ignored the part where Phil's 93-94 season can be considered one of the best coaching jobs AND Pippen can be a top 25/50 player of all time; 3) ignored the rest of my post. On top of that, Shaq was 37 years old. Anyone who expected more than what he provided that year is an idiot. So I'm not surprised you expected more.
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  #50  
Old 06-26-17, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
I merely made the observation that Phil, Mr "zenmaster", had not succeeded without Jordan and Bryant - similar dominant personalities that put significant pressure on their teammates. That's not to say that there is no other way for him to lead, and only YOU said that. Jackson clearly made use of Jordan and Bryant to push their teammates - and only an idiot would deny that. It's a distinct possibility that the clown Shaq's messing with that "formula" is why they got rid of the best 5 ever in him - even after getting Phil's first 3 championships in LA with him.

When I don't take the strawman argument bait you offer, it's then YOU first mentioning Popovich. I have no idea why you'd call him my "wet dream", but I don't know why you make up any of the bucket after bucket of crap that you post in here. I can't understand why this would be enjoyable for you, but it must be. It's what you do, for some reason.
You said several top coaches would have replicated Jackson's record and only a moron would disagree, so why is asking you to name some of those top coaches a strawman? I'm sorry I asked you to defend that statement, I had no idea it was actually a steawman.
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  #51  
Old 06-26-17, 12:30 PM
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Classic cabe.

Step 1) Saying something incorrect and/or stupid
Step 2) Get called on that
Step 3) Continually post "strawman! strawman! strawman!" and ignore anything of actual substance and go off on weird irrelevant tangents.
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  #52  
Old 06-26-17, 12:31 PM
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....if there was no argument re: Phil.....what have nearly all of your posts in this thread been about?
Well, responding to you morons, of course. Backread
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  #53  
Old 06-26-17, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
You said several top coaches would have replicated Jackson's record and only a moron would disagree, so why is asking you to name some of those top coaches a strawman? I'm sorry I asked you to defend that statement, I had no idea it was actually a steawman.
Quote:
repĚliĚcate
verb
past tense: replicated; past participle: replicated
ˈrepləˌkāt/Submit
make an exact copy of; reproduce.
"it might be impractical to replicate eastern culture in the west"
bite me, liar
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  #54  
Old 06-26-17, 12:34 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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So there was no argument but you were partaking in the argument?

Oh. Okay.
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  #55  
Old 06-26-17, 12:35 PM
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Of course the statement Weirdo made implied Jackson wasn't as good of a coach as he's made out to be directly evidenced by the fact Weirdo thinks only a moron would believe many top coaches could not have duplicated Jackson's coaching record, presumably if they had Jordan and Bryant going off as alpha males in the locker room. If that's no longer your position or if it never was your position, but you aren't good at words, that's fine.
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  #56  
Old 06-26-17, 12:36 PM
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So there was no argument but you were partaking in the argument?

Oh. Okay.
That's your lamest ever. Glad I quoted it.
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  #57  
Old 06-26-17, 12:36 PM
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I like how cabe keeps dodging the "name one coach that could be called great even in years in which they lacked great talent" request.
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Old 06-26-17, 12:38 PM
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That's your lamest ever. Glad I quoted it.
Cabe doesn't know basic vocabulary

Quote:
argument
[ahr-gyuh-muh nt]
noun
1.
an oral disagreement; verbal opposition
2.
a discussion involving differing points of view; debate
Are you suggesting every post between you and me, you and ep have been in agreement?
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  #59  
Old 06-26-17, 12:51 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
I like how cabe keeps dodging the "name one coach that could be called great even in years in which they lacked great talent" request.
You obviously are going to lean on results-based comparisons when player talent can't be objectively compared, because you're a butthurt a-hole now. It's what you do....

But OK. You've moaned so much that I'll give you something to play with....if for no other reason than you may come up with something creative to be a jerk.

Chuck Daly, Lenny, Nellie, Dr Jack, Hubie. Those 5 will always have been great coaches, and could adapt to the players Phil had. In the same era, they would have had similar results. Daly may even win more in LA, because maybe he keeps Shaq and makes it work.
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  #60  
Old 06-26-17, 12:53 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Cabe doesn't know basic vocabulary



Are you suggesting every post between you and me, you and ep have been in agreement?
Obviously it's about your use of the concept "YOUR argument" (meaning "mine" and not those you guys invented), dolt.

Thanks for doubling down on lame
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