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  #121  
Old 09-21-18, 06:57 AM
dado6 dado6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domi View Post
I would argue about 80% is taxpayer funded and 20% is funded by kicking the can down the road.
Which means it is funded by future taxpayers
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  #122  
Old 09-21-18, 07:09 AM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
I realize that reality is a concept you struggle with, but everything the government does is funded by the taxpayers.
Correct - this why cutting taxes does not help erase the debt caused by entitlements like Medicare and SS.
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  #123  
Old 09-21-18, 07:13 AM
dado6 dado6 is offline
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I saw this somewhere:

Why do we always hear Congress and others talk about how Social Security and Medicare are running out of money, but nobody ever says Welfare is running out of money?
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  #124  
Old 09-21-18, 08:06 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
Correct - this why cutting taxes does not help erase the debt caused by entitlements like Medicare and SS.
Funny how you don't address the question of how much money would someone have at 65 if all the cash that was TAKEN from them & their employer over a 40 year work life had instead been invested in the same way an IRA was?

Is it because the person would likely be able to self insure with all the money sitting in their account?

You use the pejorative term "entitlements" to slander programs that confiscate money from people who WORK their entire lives with the PROMISE that the money will be used in the future to pay for services pre-purchased.
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  #125  
Old 09-21-18, 08:15 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dado6 View Post
I saw this somewhere:

Why do we always hear Congress and others talk about how Social Security and Medicare are running out of money, but nobody ever says Welfare is running out of money?
It's simple, SS & Medicare rely on WORKING, PRODUCTIVE citizens for funding. It's a source of real income that politicians can extract ever more money from. Whether it's raising the "contribution" they take from every pay check or changing the terms of what the money paid in was supposed to get you (like retirement age, income taxed, medical coverage reductions, etc.) politicians can access additional funds. It's like heroin to an addict.

With programs like Welfare & Food Stamps and all the other welfare nets they're faced with the challenge of getting blood out of a stone. The truth is SS could be fixed very easily and medicare is not as hard to fix as they make out. The problem is that many of the fixes involve returning money & decision making power back to individuals and that's against the DNA of BOTH political party's.
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  #126  
Old 09-21-18, 08:48 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
An underfunded medicare plan is an entitlement. It is funded by taxpayers.
Only in the sense that the federal government created the programs, detailed the benefits, charged taxes to pay for it, then mismanaged the money by setting aside too little to cover the liabilities that they created AND limited the potential compounding of the revenues by limiting the investments to a special lower interest rate Treasury note...…..

This could be solved by treating SS and Medicare as an actual trust fund, with professional money managers and using actuarial tables to project benefits NOT on a wealth transfer scam, but on the actual amounts collected from each individual and their employer and the compounding and returns on the investments made.

What that would mean is that what you paid in over your entire life, you would receive back some portion of that income over your remaining lifetime after retirement and your heirs would receive whatever was left after your demise. There would be no potential for not having enough money in the fund to cover retirees, and chances are the benefits for everyone would probably be closer to what they were living off of while working.

Medicare was designed to protect seniors from catastrophic medical expenses as they aged and could no longer get normal coverage. That's why there was a hole in the coverage that each person was expected to provide for.

My 401(k) is projected to pay me around 60% of my salary for 40 years after retirement. Social Security is providing about 15% (IF paid in full) despite collecting almost the same amount from me and my employer over a longer time span.

Last edited by SWMCinci; 09-21-18 at 09:04 AM.
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  #127  
Old 09-21-18, 08:59 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
Correct - this why cutting taxes does not help erase the debt caused by entitlements like Medicare and SS.
There is NO debt created by programs such as Medicare and SS, what is created are unfunded liabilities. Since SS and Medicare were DESIGNED to operate on a pay-as-you-go program when set up, it was always expected that each generation would be larger than the one before and that pyramid would continue to get larger and larger and the people entering the pyramid would cover the lack of assets to cover those at the top...… a CLASSIC pyramid scam or as the government would refer to it from a private individual or corporation - Ponzi scheme.

Without Reagan and Tip O'Neill, SS and Medicare would have been consuming larger parts of our tax revenues much sooner instead of providing "free" money for other giveaways and redistribution scams. As it was, they only intended the trust funds to act as a bridge until a more permanent and lasting solution could be created, unfortunately politicians hate to make real decisions.

To create debt, you have to borrow money, since no money has been borrowed to cover these programs at this point, they remain as unfunded liabilities - to the tune of about $125 TRILLION. Our debt is only about $22 TRILLION.

Cutting taxes does not increase the deficit or the debt, and since the taxes collected to cover SS and Medicare were not cut - it didn't even add to the unfunded liabilities. The only way the deficit and the debt increases is if cuts are not made to spending. As has been discussed and demonstrated numerous times over the years, we do not have a taxation problem we have a spending problem.
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  #128  
Old 09-21-18, 09:32 AM
Qcity Qcity is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
Because food stamps is a rounding error...and starving people is not a great thing for rich nation.

SNAP benefits cost $70.9 billion in fiscal year 2016 and supplied roughly 44.2 million Americans (14% of the population) with an average of $125.51 for each person per month in food assistance.

It also goes directly into the economy immediately.



LOL; It was in the economy to begin with. Then government took it out of the economy (taxpayer's pockets) and redistributed it to someone else in the economy, after taking it's cut. Not only was no incremental wealth created; the productive labor of some was pilfered to support the unproductive habits of others. Tantamount to theft.
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  #129  
Old 09-21-18, 12:10 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
Because food stamps is a rounding error...and starving people is not a great thing for rich nation.

SNAP benefits cost $70.9 billion in fiscal year 2016 and supplied roughly 44.2 million Americans (14% of the population) with an average of $125.51 for each person per month in food assistance.

It also goes directly into the economy immediately.
...
As if allowing the people that actually earned the money to keep it means the money disappears.... you do understand that to pay out $70.9 billion in SNAP benefits the government had to take $83 billion or so out of the pockets of the people that actually worked for and earned the money. At best that's neutral to the economy, but it's really an expense to the people that work for the money because it leaves them fewer dollars to feed, clothe, and house their own families.

Maybe if the government wasn't redistributing money that it doesn't create and allowed the people that earned it to spend it and get a return for the fruits of their labors, the people needing the $125.51 for food could go get a job where the people were spending their money at.
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  #130  
Old 09-21-18, 12:35 PM
domi domi is offline
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Originally Posted by dado6 View Post
Which means it is funded by future taxpayers
Is it really ever funded if we just keep kicking the can down the road?
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  #131  
Old 09-21-18, 12:53 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is offline
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At the very least, the age to receive social security and medicare needs to change. When the social security program was implemented, the average life expectancy was 61 years. It's now nearly 80 years but the age you receive your benefit has remained the same.

The whole program was a terrible idea from the start as people can figure out how to effectively use their money better than the government can, but now that it's here to stay, we should at least treat it as it was originally intended. A safety net for people who outlived their savings. Not a retirement fund.
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  #132  
Old 09-21-18, 12:54 PM
domi domi is offline
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Social Security and Medicare would be in a lot better shape if gubmint would stop "borrowing" money from them for other programs. It's rarely talked about on here but the gubmint has as of late 2016 borrowed $5.2T from programs like Social Security, Civil Service Retirement, Defense Retirement, Medicare, and FDIC Insurance. The only thing those programs have received in return is a piece of paper saying we owe you.
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  #133  
Old 09-21-18, 01:27 PM
zeeman zeeman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
At the very least, the age to receive social security and medicare needs to change. When the social security program was implemented, the average life expectancy was 61 years. It's now nearly 80 years but the age you receive your benefit has remained the same.

The whole program was a terrible idea from the start as people can figure out how to effectively use their money better than the government can, but now that it's here to stay, we should at least treat it as it was originally intended. A safety net for people who outlived their savings. Not a retirement fund.
I suspect that raising the age for full benefits will happen soon. The 62 year old bracket should go away and they might raise the full benefit to 71 or 72 which would kick the can down the road for another 50 years
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  #134  
Old 09-21-18, 03:07 PM
Qcity Qcity is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
At the very least, the age to receive social security and medicare needs to change. When the social security program was implemented, the average life expectancy was 61 years. It's now nearly 80 years but the age you receive your benefit has remained the same.

The whole program was a terrible idea from the start as people can figure out how to effectively use their money better than the government can, but now that it's here to stay, we should at least treat it as it was originally intended. A safety net for people who outlived their savings. Not a retirement fund.

Not true.
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  #135  
Old 09-30-18, 06:57 AM
gneiss rocks gneiss rocks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domi View Post
Social Security and Medicare would be in a lot better shape if gubmint would stop "borrowing" money from them for other programs. It's rarely talked about on here but the gubmint has as of late 2016 borrowed $5.2T from programs like Social Security, Civil Service Retirement, Defense Retirement, Medicare, and FDIC Insurance. The only thing those programs have received in return is a piece of paper saying we owe you.
Our Currency is a IOU, It is borrowed into existence at interest, and the rest is created through debt in the form of fractional reserve lending.
Our current debt will never be repaid just inflated or revalued into a something else. This is all a controlled ponzi scheme and will last until it don't.
Trump seems to be doing the right things to help control the coming problems, but as rates rise into a out of control debt something will have to give. Much like 2008 their are only so many seats and when the music stops (likely a major hedge fund or bank fail) things will have to change as the taxpayer (government) can no longer bail out as in 2008...it is literally to big to fail, but it will.
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  #136  
Old 09-30-18, 07:05 AM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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I feel better knowing that my tax dollars go to support CHS's entitlements.
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  #137  
Old 09-30-18, 07:59 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
I feel better knowing that my tax dollars go to support CHS's entitlements.
And you should.
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  #138  
Old 09-30-18, 09:38 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeeman View Post
I suspect that raising the age for full benefits will happen soon. The 62 year old bracket should go away and they might raise the full benefit to 71 or 72 which would kick the can down the road for another 50 years
Actually, the age to receive full benefits has NEVER been 62, it started at 65. From 1940 or so until 1943 the age you could receive full benefits increased by 2 months until it froze at 66. After 1955, it increased 2 months a year until it froze at 67 for those born after 1960. It should have been adjusted in 1980 to 70 and again in 2000 to 72 - had they done that, it would potentially be solvent forever.
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