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  #151  
Old 03-09-18, 06:10 PM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
Comet is 100% correct the best two teams are still standing. If Mentor was seeded differently and had to play Benny instead of Brush - Mentor is still in the finals.
Repeating this over and over doesn't make it true. It's not that Mentor would have had to play Benny, it's that if Mentor was the #4 seed they would have had to beat Cleveland Heights (likely) and then would have had their matchup with Solon in the district semifinal. The path was significantly more difficult for the #4 seed than the #3 seed, which wouldn't be a problem if the seeding process was done fairly and accurately.

Based on prior discussions, I feel pretty confident that you don't really believe that the way seeding occurs is always reflective of the strength of the teams involved.
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  #152  
Old 03-09-18, 07:04 PM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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Before the seeding I thought Benny was the second best team. Based on the results I was wrong and the people doing the seeding look to be correct. Benny lost to Heights at home in a sectional. The 2 seed would not do that. Being the two seed means you should be able to beat every team except for the top seed. Benny could not beat the 5 seed on their home floor. That tells me they did not deserve the two seed like originally thought.
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  #153  
Old 03-09-18, 11:38 PM
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Euclid DI District 17-18

If anything Mentor could lay claim to being the 2 seed since they just knocked off the 3 seed. Played a way better schedule than Brush too since you brought up mayfields schedule This is unlike Benny losing to the 5 seed in a sectional final on their home floor

And Mentor had a batch of wins and overall schedule that was pretty darn close to Benny too. These non D1 football schools don't typically play the same overall schedule as some of the bigger d1 leagues do. 2 of Benny's biggest wins were against a team in lake catholic that begged off playing us in basketball

I know they schedule up and beat Ignatius but people were acting like they beat a ton of juggernauts. Scheduling them is brave but I'm looking at the ones they win

I think Mentor beats Benny this year on a neutral floor. And the habitual whining by some needs to stop. I'd get it more if you took Solon to the wire and barely lost in an earlier round. Losing to Cleveland Hts on your floor kills your argument on deserving the 2 seed though


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  #154  
Old 03-10-18, 07:51 AM
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If Mentor was the 4 seed, they most likely would not be standing right now. But they earned a top 3 seed IMO thanks to wins over Shaker, Brunswick, VASJ right before the vote. Not to mention their reputation and schedule. The GCC is a superior league to the LEL, WRC, and the NCL. Medina, second to last in the league, just took Ignatius to the brink in a semifinal. Strongsville, last place team, is in a district final.

If any team could be complaining about the seeding, it should be Cleveland Heights. Unless Mentor plays really well tonight, we may look at this as Heights was the 2nd best team...or at least the team that matched up best to Solon.

IF we allowed teams to place themselves in the district, where would a 4 seed Benedictine place? In a sectional final with Mentor or Brush? I donít think they would.
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  #155  
Old 03-10-18, 08:49 AM
James x2 James x2 is offline
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Good luck explaining that to this guy

Quote:
Originally Posted by MentorGrad2002 View Post
If anything Mentor could lay claim to being the 2 seed since they just knocked off the 3 seed. Played a way better schedule than Brush too since you brought up mayfields schedule This is unlike Benny losing to the 5 seed in a sectional final on their home floor

And Mentor had a batch of wins and overall schedule that was pretty darn close to Benny too. These non D1 football schools don't typically play the same overall schedule as some of the bigger d1 leagues do. 2 of Benny's biggest wins were against a team in lake catholic that begged off playing us in basketball

I know they schedule up and beat Ignatius but people were acting like they beat a ton of juggernauts. Scheduling them is brave but I'm looking at the ones they win

I think Mentor beats Benny this year on a neutral floor. And the habitual whining by some needs to stop. I'd get it more if you took Solon to the wire and barely lost in an earlier round. Losing to Cleveland Hts on your floor kills your argument on deserving the 2 seed though


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That Bene 01 guy likes to bicker about anything and everything he can cuz he knows more than any of us.Just ask him and he will correct everything about you including what hand you wipe with.
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  #156  
Old 03-10-18, 09:36 AM
Carnac the Magnifice Carnac the Magnifice is offline
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I don't respond very often but I feel that it is necessary. He stated that "The seeding definitely was reflective of the teams involved". In my opinion, Benedictine was seeded correctly. After Solon, all of the other contenders had 5-6 losses at the time of the seeding. Therefore, it is essentially a toss up. So you look at strength of schedule. That is where I believe they fell short. I believe that Benedictine deserves the lower seed based on strength of schedule. It is true that they have a very good independent schedule (SVSM, St. ED’s, etc.), but they did not win any of those games or have any quality wins except for CCC. They beat CCC in early December though. I am not sure how much stock coaches put into games played or wins in December because teams change so much through the end of January. The majority of the rest of the games are Division 2 or lower tier Division 1 teams (NDCL, Padua, Walsh Jesuit). They beat a very good Hoban team but it was after the determination of seeds. Compare that to Cleveland Heights who plays a good independent schedule and in a league (LEL) that is considered a slightly higher quality basketball conference. Compare that to Mentor or Solon who also play tough independent schedules and also play in arguably one of the best conferences in the state. Evidence of this is that an 0-22 Euclid team last year almost made it to the District and an 0-14 (in league play) Strongsville team is playing for a District title tonight. Many years they have 50%-75% of the league playing in the District Tournament. At the time of the seeding the only quality wins Bennies had were CCC very early in the season and St. Ignatius who is good but not the same team they have been the last couple of years. You could argue Brush as the second seed due to their conference schedule, but they did have a few quality wins and a few bad losses. Anyhow, that is for another day. It could have worked out many ways, but to continue to complain about the seeding process gets old when there are plenty of arguments as to how it was correct.
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  #157  
Old 03-10-18, 12:49 PM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
Before the seeding I thought Benny was the second best team. Based on the results I was wrong and the people doing the seeding look to be correct. Benny lost to Heights at home in a sectional. The 2 seed would not do that. Being the two seed means you should be able to beat every team except for the top seed. Benny could not beat the 5 seed on their home floor. That tells me they did not deserve the two seed like originally thought.
One game, which I think many would consider to be an upset, doesn't wipe out an entire body of work compiled over the course of a full season.

Here's an analogy: If Lake Catholic beats VASJ tonight, I don't think either of us would all of a sudden believe that they actually deserved the #1 seed based on what happened in the months prior to seeding.
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  #158  
Old 03-10-18, 01:06 PM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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Originally Posted by MentorGrad2002 View Post
If anything Mentor could lay claim to being the 2 seed since they just knocked off the 3 seed. Played a way better schedule than Brush too since you brought up mayfields schedule This is unlike Benny losing to the 5 seed in a sectional final on their home floor

And Mentor had a batch of wins and overall schedule that was pretty darn close to Benny too. These non D1 football schools don't typically play the same overall schedule as some of the bigger d1 leagues do. 2 of Benny's biggest wins were against a team in lake catholic that begged off playing us in basketball

I know they schedule up and beat Ignatius but people were acting like they beat a ton of juggernauts. Scheduling them is brave but I'm looking at the ones they win

I think Mentor beats Benny this year on a neutral floor. And the habitual whining by some needs to stop. I'd get it more if you took Solon to the wire and barely lost in an earlier round. Losing to Cleveland Hts on your floor kills your argument on deserving the 2 seed though


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As I mentioned earlier, one upset loss doesn't erase what a team does over the course of a season or prove that they weren't under-seeded. In regards to whining, I just chimed in to correct what I felt was a very debatable statement earlier in the thread. Overall, NEDAB's districting, seeding, and bracketing process is a rotten mess that needs to be fixed. Benedictine isn't the first nor will they be the last to be hosed by the process until it gets fixed.

As an aside, here's what I believe were Benny's marquee wins:

-Cleveland Central Catholic
-Lake Catholic (twice)
-St. Ignatius
-Revere
-Hoban

I think that resume warrants better than a 4 seed, but I'm biased.
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  #159  
Old 03-10-18, 01:30 PM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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Originally Posted by Carnac the Magnifice View Post
I don't respond very often but I feel that it is necessary. He stated that "The seeding definitely was reflective of the teams involved". In my opinion, Benedictine was seeded correctly. After Solon, all of the other contenders had 5-6 losses at the time of the seeding. Therefore, it is essentially a toss up. So you look at strength of schedule. That is where I believe they fell short. I believe that Benedictine deserves the lower seed based on strength of schedule. It is true that they have a very good independent schedule (SVSM, St. EDís, etc.), but they did not win any of those games or have any quality wins except for CCC. They beat CCC in early December though. I am not sure how much stock coaches put into games played or wins in December because teams change so much through the end of January. The majority of the rest of the games are Division 2 or lower tier Division 1 teams (NDCL, Padua, Walsh Jesuit). They beat a very good Hoban team but it was after the determination of seeds. Compare that to Cleveland Heights who plays a good independent schedule and in a league (LEL) that is considered a slightly higher quality basketball conference. Compare that to Mentor or Solon who also play tough independent schedules and also play in arguably one of the best conferences in the state. Evidence of this is that an 0-22 Euclid team last year almost made it to the District and an 0-14 (in league play) Strongsville team is playing for a District title tonight. Many years they have 50%-75% of the league playing in the District Tournament. At the time of the seeding the only quality wins Bennies had were CCC very early in the season and St. Ignatius who is good but not the same team they have been the last couple of years. You could argue Brush as the second seed due to their conference schedule, but they did have a few quality wins and a few bad losses. Anyhow, that is for another day. It could have worked out many ways, but to continue to complain about the seeding process gets old when there are plenty of arguments as to how it was correct.
Some of the above arguments in favor of the absolute superiority of the GCC are a bit recursive. Strongsville's best win on its way to a district final appearance was against another GCC team, Elyria, which according to the logic of "one game sample sizes" presented here would seem to indicate that maybe Elyria wasn't all that good to begin with (their schedule/results would actually back this up). Same would be true of Brunswick. Euclid's "almost accomplishment" last year is as close to irrelevant as you can get. There are no easy games in the GCC, sure, but I think it's really top heavy and because of how spread out the schools into are into four districts and because of how the schools in the westside districts (outside of Eds and Iggy who are unfortunately packed into the same district) are generally not as strong as the eastside districts, a few of the schools' postseason "runs" might lead some to believe that they're better than they really are.

Again, I realize that no one likes to have these discussions, especially not now and not when your favorite schools benefit from the status quo, but NEDAB is the only board in the state that uses this antiquated method and it creates a situation that really does open the process up to criticism.
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  #160  
Old 03-10-18, 01:31 PM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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That Bene 01 guy likes to bicker about anything and everything he can cuz he knows more than any of us.Just ask him and he will correct everything about you including what hand you wipe with.
Thank you for your valuable contribution to the thread.
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  #161  
Old 03-10-18, 02:04 PM
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Euclid DI District 17-18

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennies'01 View Post
As I mentioned earlier, one upset loss doesn't erase what a team does over the course of a season or prove that they weren't under-seeded. In regards to whining, I just chimed in to correct what I felt was a very debatable statement earlier in the thread. Overall, NEDAB's districting, seeding, and bracketing process is a rotten mess that needs to be fixed. Benedictine isn't the first nor will they be the last to be hosed by the process until it gets fixed.



As an aside, here's what I believe were Benny's marquee wins:



-Cleveland Central Catholic

-Lake Catholic (twice)

-St. Ignatius

-Revere

-Hoban



I think that resume warrants better than a 4 seed, but I'm biased.


And I think Mentor's schedule and body of work warranted the 2 or 3 seed which is where they ended up. And they got to the district final. I think they are the 2nd best team in the district

It's not just this thread Bennies. You've whined and bickered with many on here for years. Social justice warrior who bashes suburban public schools like mentor and Solon while sticking up for the inner ring publics like the school you avoided Cleveland Hts (to go to a private school ). It gets old

Also for as much as you bash the GCC, it's definitely a better league than the NCL,WRC and LEL

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  #162  
Old 03-10-18, 02:07 PM
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Euclid DI District 17-18

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  #163  
Old 03-10-18, 02:30 PM
bbfan29 bbfan29 is offline
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Anyone know if tonites game will be on radio or tv?
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  #164  
Old 03-10-18, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennies'01 View Post
Oh, sure, but you said that "the two best teams survived" which is a different claim.



You saw Mayfield's schedule, right?



This is an unsupported claim. Solon earned the #1 seed and their path to the final, but if we're using prior season's results to justify Mentor's seeding for this year, that's a bit unfair to the rest of the teams. I realize that no one wants to have a debate about seeding right now, but someone made a statement that needed to be challenged. Hopefully all of this is fixed very soon as the Euclid district seeding and bracketing this year might be the best example showing what is wrong with how NEDAB runs its district tournaments in all sports.
Your argument has no basis in fact. The two best teams are playing for the title. Unsupported claim? They've got the wins to prove it. Why don't you quit whining already?

Last edited by Metacomet; 03-10-18 at 03:27 PM.
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  #165  
Old 03-10-18, 07:36 PM
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Very good back and forth first half.

Mentor up 36-31.


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  #166  
Old 03-10-18, 08:26 PM
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very surprised that this game was even close but on to the next
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  #167  
Old 03-10-18, 08:49 PM
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Mentor is good.
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  #168  
Old 03-10-18, 09:02 PM
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Rinse and repeat

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Originally Posted by James x2 View Post
That Bene 01 guy likes to bicker about anything and everything he can cuz he knows more than any of us.Just ask him and he will correct everything about you including what hand you wipe with.
Rinse and repeat
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  #169  
Old 03-10-18, 09:46 PM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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I'm not surprised in the least the game was close. Solon is good and Mentor is Mentor. Coach K was going to have his team ready and you know how hard the Cards play. These were when the dust cleared the best two teams in this district. Solon has a special team led by a special player. Guard play and leadership is so important this time of the year and Solon has it. Anybody who thought though that the Comets would just roll over Mentor - does not know Mentor. Mentor makes you beat them and comes at you in waves - Solon did just that and now gets to advance to what should be a very tough regional. Whoever comes out of CSU will have to earn it.
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  #170  
Old 03-10-18, 10:19 PM
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Took in this game. Great effort by Mentor, but they missed a good amount a free throws all night.

Shaker-SOlon should be a good one. Good luck to both teams!
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  #171  
Old 03-10-18, 10:27 PM
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A well played game by both teams and undecided until Solon stretched out the lead a bit late in the 4th quarter. Mentor played about as well as I could have hoped...except for at the free throw line. They executed well in pretty much every other phase of the game. Solon is the better team and they earned the win. If these teams play 10 times, Mentor wins probably 2 or 3. At some points, I thought Mentor was going to find a way to pull it off. The two teams played pretty evenly with the exception being free throws. Solon shot around 75% or so I would guess. Mentor was below 50%. That was the key difference tonight in what could have been Mentor's greatest district final win ever.

Krizancic is 11-3 in district final games. Sincere Carry and Coach Decesare are primarily responsible for two of those losses. Kudos to them. Both teams were well coached and well prepared. Comes down to execution.

Good luck to Solon at CSU. They have as good of a chance (or more) as any to get to the Final Four. I feel pretty good that we will have a GCC team at Columbus.
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  #172  
Old 03-10-18, 10:40 PM
eaglepride eaglepride is offline
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very surprised that this game was even close but on to the next
That’s not fair to say about Mentor. They have earned the right to be a team with a reputation of always being a potential loss.
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  #173  
Old 03-10-18, 10:56 PM
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A very well played game by mentor except for the free throws. Couldn't have asked for more besides that. They stuck with Solon until the end when Solon stall balled and mentor was forced to foul.

Was a 3 point game with under 3 minutes left. Great effort. Solon was better though. Hope they win it all. Good luck Meta


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  #174  
Old 03-11-18, 11:25 AM
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6 for 19 on free throws. That is ugly and will kill you vs any good opponent let alone one of the top 3-5 in the state

A few bad turnovers late but the free throws were the killer The 3's were average too 9 for 30, but some timely ones were made

Mentor played a very solid game besides that. Solon shot very well from 3 point land and Mentor was still right there all game long

Proud of this team. Not one of our most talented at all but they played hard. Coach K is one of if not the best coaches I've seen at the high school level for basketball He gets the most out of his teams all the time


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  #175  
Old 03-11-18, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by MentorGrad2002 View Post
6 for 19 on free throws. That is ugly and will kill you vs any good opponent let alone one of the top 3-5 in the state

A few bad turnovers late but the free throws were the killer The 3's were average too 9 for 30, but some timely ones were made

Mentor played a very solid game besides that. Solon shot very well from 3 point land and Mentor was still right there all game long

Proud of this team. Not one of our most talented at all but they played hard. Coach K is one of if not the best coaches I've seen at the high school level for basketball He gets the most out of his teams all the time


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Agree. He is an outstanding coach. His teams are always fundamentally sound, well prepared and mentally tough. Can't ask for much more.
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  #176  
Old 03-11-18, 01:46 PM
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Euclid DI District 17-18

Strongsville went 1-13 in the GCC and lost by 3 points to Lorain in a district final last night

Mentor played Solon tough last night

Medina gave st Ignatius all they could handle

Now Solon and Shaker are meeting on regionals


Euclid also showed much improvement including beating is twice. Brunswick was near the top of the league all year long

Yeah I'd say the GCC is a great league. No easy games. One of the best top to bottom conferences you'll find in the state


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  #177  
Old 03-11-18, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by MentorGrad2002 View Post
Strongsville went 1-13 in the GCC and lost by 3 points to Lorain in a district final last night

Mentor played Solon tough last night

Medina gave st Ignatius all they could handle

Now Solon and Shaker are meeting on regionals


Euclid also showed much improvement including beating is twice. Brunswick was near the top of the league all year long

Yeah I'd say the GCC is a great league. No easy games. One of the best top to bottom conferences you'll find in the state


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That's all absolutely true. And add the fact that Brunswick, Elyria and Mentor all got knocked out by fellow GCC members. If things were bracketed differently, maybe another GCC team or two would have reached the regionals.

Plus, three GCC teams (Mentor, Medina and Elyria) made last year's regionals. The GCC doesn't take a back seat to any other conference.
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  #178  
Old 03-11-18, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by cardzfan1234 View Post
A well played game by both teams and undecided until Solon stretched out the lead a bit late in the 4th quarter. Mentor played about as well as I could have hoped...except for at the free throw line. They executed well in pretty much every other phase of the game. Solon is the better team and they earned the win. If these teams play 10 times, Mentor wins probably 2 or 3. At some points, I thought Mentor was going to find a way to pull it off. The two teams played pretty evenly with the exception being free throws. Solon shot around 75% or so I would guess. Mentor was below 50%. That was the key difference tonight in what could have been Mentor's greatest district final win ever.

Krizancic is 11-3 in district final games. Sincere Carry and Coach Decesare are primarily responsible for two of those losses. Kudos to them. Both teams were well coached and well prepared. Comes down to execution.

Good luck to Solon at CSU. They have as good of a chance (or more) as any to get to the Final Four. I feel pretty good that we will have a GCC team at Columbus.
It was a great game, and a really tough game. Mentor scared me to death; I did not want Solon facing the Cards with the district title on the line. I didn't want to face Krizancic and his bag of tricks. He's one of the best big-game coaches around. So I knew that if Solon were to win, it wasn't going to be easy.

To me, the two things that determined the outcome were Mentor's struggles from the free throw line and the presence of Sincere Carry in Solon's lineup. I've been following Solon basketball since I was a kid in the 60s and Sincere is easily one of the top five players in school history.

I located you and MentorGrad late in the game up in the opposite balcony. I tried to get over there after the game to say hi, but the security people made me exit the other direction. On the way out, I spotted Worm02 and we talked for a few minutes.
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