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  #31  
Old 12-22-18, 10:48 AM
FootballPsychGuy FootballPsychGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by cincifbfan View Post
Then that person is not doing college the right way. Tons of co-ops, internships, and tons of ways to network and gain experience. Every college has some sort of those programs plus career centers. If you are not going out of your way to utilize those recourses, then what's the point of college? You should leave college with way more than a diploma, unless you did 4 years of partying then I don't know what to tell you.
Sorry, made my post before reading cincifans...yeah, what he said!
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  #32  
Old 12-22-18, 10:54 AM
Hammerdrill Hammerdrill is offline
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Originally Posted by FootballPsychGuy View Post
Not necessarily so, if the kid was smart enough to go through some type of co-op program on the way to earning his degree. That would obviously depend on whether or not the college offered co-op; but that's a great way to gain real-world, relevant experience, and make possible future connections.
Co ops are great, but that is very minimal in the area of networking, and industry experience. You co op with one company. If that company doesn't want to hire you, there isn't a lot of networking from that.
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  #33  
Old 12-22-18, 10:55 AM
TroyTrojan05 TroyTrojan05 is offline
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A perfect example is AJ Oullette who was a 2014 graduate of tiny Covington which is west of Troy. He had zero offers and pretty much zero interest from anyone at all. He walked on to Ohio and became the starter and was a 4 year starter in college. He had the size, but maybe not the speed or agility. And he certainly didnít have college coaches coming to Covington, OH. He just capped off a 1300 yard season and left as the 3rd highest rusher in school history. One thing that you canít measure is heart and determination. You can find some diamonds in the rough like him. They are out there.

Here is an article on Oullette


https://www.tdn-net.com/sports/54175...risco-bowl-win
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  #34  
Old 12-22-18, 10:57 AM
Hammerdrill Hammerdrill is offline
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Originally Posted by cincifbfan View Post
Your last sentence says it all. It really does not matter today, you guys are thinking of 20 years ago where college prestige meant much more. With everyone being so connected in the 21st century it really doesn't matter, unless you went to Trump University, ITT Tech or some other "fake college." If the college is regionally accredited, then it meets the same criteria as all other regionally accredited University. Why pay 2x the price when the degrees meet same accreditation criterion.
I'm all for not paying a premium for school. But if you think that the kids who are smart enough and accomplished enough to get into a tough school, are not more sought after by employers, you are crazy. You really think a kid who graduates from the Naval Academy is looked at in the same manner as a kid who graduated from a online school?
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  #35  
Old 12-22-18, 11:49 AM
cincifbfan cincifbfan is offline
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Originally Posted by Hammerdrill View Post
I'm all for not paying a premium for school. But if you think that the kids who are smart enough and accomplished enough to get into a tough school, are not more sought after by employers, you are crazy. You really think a kid who graduates from the Naval Academy is looked at in the same manner as a kid who graduated from a online school?
They are not looked at the same. Naval Academy will give you military experience which is highly sought after. Again experience matters. And the post about co-oping in one place, again you should be co-oping in at least 2 places. If your co-op doesn't give you the opportunity to do more than get coffee and make copies, you need a new co-op. You should be getting hands on experience and shaking as many hands as possible. Again, someone's not doing college right.

Times are changing and have changed dramatically even in the past 10 years in the college world. If you as the employer are focused on where someone went to school as your filtering criteria, you are missing out onany times the hardest working people out there that don't have ACT scores for elite universities or Daddy's cash for those places either. They bust their tales to earn everything they get and sometimes due to life circumstances, it is an online college, which is great for that person for bettering their education level at their place/schedule. That's the kind of person I want working for me, not some elitist know it all.

We still have too many people that refuse to adapt to the time period.
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  #36  
Old 12-22-18, 01:21 PM
cheaptilt cheaptilt is offline
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Originally Posted by ptpattenpackerfan View Post
I would heartily agree with Pull-to_trap on Elijah Williams. Tough young man with room to grow. Was wondering re: #21 who filled in for Phillips in the play-off game. Is he a Senior? He ran very well - quickness and toughness.

junior who played mostly defense.
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  #37  
Old 12-22-18, 01:29 PM
FootballPsychGuy FootballPsychGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by Hammerdrill View Post
Co ops are great, but that is very minimal in the area of networking, and industry experience. You co op with one company. If that company doesn't want to hire you, there isn't a lot of networking from that.
that's probably the norm Hammer, but my son had a good co-op experience through UC; actually co-op'd with 3 different companies during his time. a 5 year program, Computer Engineering, every other semester he's taking classes, then next semester working through the co-op part. He had to take the initiative, but he did work with 3 different companies during those 5 semesters...got fortunate and was offered a job right after graduation from the 3rd one, and has been there since (3 years now). It can work, but yes, the kid has to do some things on his own too.
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  #38  
Old 12-22-18, 03:48 PM
Friday night light Friday night light is offline
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THe one thing with kids looking to play at the next level that bothers me is seeing kids with good grades and test scores choose to go to less than stellar academic situations simply becaus they were offered a little scholarship money. I see it more in baseball where the scholarships are usually worth much less than in football. College sports are great but it's only four years and it's over. A quality education lasts a lifetime.
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  #39  
Old 12-22-18, 03:48 PM
Hammerdrill Hammerdrill is offline
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Originally Posted by FootballPsychGuy View Post
that's probably the norm Hammer, but my son had a good co-op experience through UC; actually co-op'd with 3 different companies during his time. a 5 year program, Computer Engineering, every other semester he's taking classes, then next semester working through the co-op part. He had to take the initiative, but he did work with 3 different companies during those 5 semesters...got fortunate and was offered a job right after graduation from the 3rd one, and has been there since (3 years now). It can work, but yes, the kid has to do some things on his own too.
I'm pretty familiar with UC and their co-op stuff and they seem to be the extreme exception to the norm.
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  #40  
Old 12-22-18, 03:53 PM
cincifbfan cincifbfan is offline
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Originally Posted by Friday night light View Post
THe one thing with kids looking to play at the next level that bothers me is seeing kids with good grades and test scores choose to go to less than stellar academic situations simply becaus they were offered a little scholarship money. I see it more in baseball where the scholarships are usually worth much less than in football. College sports are great but it's only four years and it's over. A quality education lasts a lifetime.
That little bit more scholarship money can be a huge deal for the rest of their life with student loan debt. Good for them for being fiscally responsible. Interest rates are only going to climb, 4x this year, at least twice next year. That little extra scholarship money can have a huge impact on their quality of life later on.
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  #41  
Old 12-22-18, 05:03 PM
Friday night light Friday night light is offline
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Originally Posted by cincifbfan View Post
That little bit more scholarship money can be a huge deal for the rest of their life with student loan debt. Good for them for being fiscally responsible. Interest rates are only going to climb, 4x this year, at least twice next year. That little extra scholarship money can have a huge impact on their quality of life later on.
I agree with you when the money is tight and every dollar counts. I guess I am referring more to the travel baseball crowd where kids and parents are so obsessed with saying they or there kid is on scholarship that they sacrifice the quality of education that the kids grades and abilities afford him. I have always been of the opinion that a kid should choose a school thinking if my athletic career ended tomorrow would I still want to go to school here??? If the answer is no then unless as you say there are financial factors to consider I don't think it's worth it.
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  #42  
Old 12-23-18, 06:19 AM
Ballboy000 Ballboy000 is offline
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Originally Posted by ELK Strong View Post
I understand that measurables & academics are the obvious starting points, but what I have never understood is why actual game performance against high-level competition (GWOC D1 talent) doesn't matter more. I have seen too many D1 players signed that have the measurables but their game performance didn't match.
Performance does matter, but only if the player has the measurables for the position they are recruiting him for. If a kid is a great player, but is too short or slow, the colleges will tell you they can recruit a kid that has the measurables and turn him into the player they want, but they cannot change a kids height or his 40 time into what they want. May be able to increase the 40 a bit by improving starting technique but the rest is pretty much God given speed. The game is faster at every level of play. Speed means everything at most positions.
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  #43  
Old 12-23-18, 07:48 AM
cincifbfan cincifbfan is offline
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Originally Posted by Ballboy000 View Post
Performance does matter, but only if the player has the measurables for the position they are recruiting him for. If a kid is a great player, but is too short or slow, the colleges will tell you they can recruit a kid that has the measurables and turn him into the player they want, but they cannot change a kids height or his 40 time into what they want. May be able to increase the 40 a bit by improving starting technique but the rest is pretty much God given speed. The game is faster at every level of play. Speed means everything at most positions.
I would say that measurables today mean less than they did 10+ years ago. The new wave of coaches are a lot better at recruiting players who can play instead of recruiting numbers like 40 times, height, weight, bench press, etc. They will then cater their system to the players. So if your kid can play, he will get recruited, it may not be D1 Power 5, but if he can play there is a spot for him on a roster.
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  #44  
Old 12-23-18, 08:36 PM
Ballboy000 Ballboy000 is offline
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Originally Posted by cincifbfan View Post
I would say that measurables today mean less than they did 10+ years ago. The new wave of coaches are a lot better at recruiting players who can play instead of recruiting numbers like 40 times, height, weight, bench press, etc. They will then cater their system to the players. So if your kid can play, he will get recruited, it may not be D1 Power 5, but if he can play there is a spot for him on a roster.
You are probably being facetious & making light of the other ongoing discussion on this thread about colleges & employment, but just in case you are not ...

There are spots for most kids that can play well on D3 & NAIA rosters if they have the GPA/ACT to enter the D3 colleges which prioritize quality of education over athletics. Above the D3 level measurables begin taking priority along with qualifying grades. The higher the level of play, the more important the players measurables are. It is a business & coaches jobs depend upon how well their staff recruits and develops those recruits.
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  #45  
Old 12-23-18, 08:43 PM
StateChampion2012 StateChampion2012 is offline
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Coldwater:

Cole Frilling - 6 foot 4 WR with pretty good speed

Mitch Neikamp - Probably our best player last season. Strong back with the ability to make plays

Jacob Wenning - Another WR with some size and speed. Hip injury had him sidelined most of the year.
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  #46  
Old 12-23-18, 09:48 PM
cincifbfan cincifbfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballboy000 View Post
You are probably being facetious & making light of the other ongoing discussion on this thread about colleges & employment, but just in case you are not ...

There are spots for most kids that can play well on D3 & NAIA rosters if they have the GPA/ACT to enter the D3 colleges which prioritize quality of education over athletics. Above the D3 level measurables begin taking priority along with qualifying grades. The higher the level of play, the more important the players measurables are. It is a business & coaches jobs depend upon how well their staff recruits and develops those recruits.

I'm not being facetious about any of it and do realize how the D3 schools very much prioritize academics, said so in a previous post. I aslo said in a previous post that the number 1 reason guys don't get recruited is grades. Unless you are the kid's parents or coach, you don't know what those are. People and families especially will lie like crazy saying their child has great grades and scores to save face when the reality is they are atrocious. They will then blame coach, school or anyone else.
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  #47  
Old 12-23-18, 10:00 PM
starkfb starkfb is offline
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Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
Hell I could post all day long about great hs players who are or were not college prospects. Mostly due to size and 40.
I agree it is mostly due to size and speed testing results . Going to a big or popular school does not carry the weight it used to . The scouts are not stupid.
Dover is a small school and i heard their kicker just got a scholarship to the OSU !!
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  #48  
Old 12-24-18, 06:51 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by ELK Strong View Post
I understand that measurables & academics are the obvious starting points, but what I have never understood is why actual game performance against high-level competition (GWOC D1 talent) doesn't matter more.
Why do the Ohio MAC schools always lose to Ohio State? It's because the Buckeyes are bigger and faster.
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  #49  
Old 12-24-18, 08:20 AM
ELK Strong ELK Strong is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
Why do the Ohio MAC schools always lose to Ohio State? It's because the Buckeyes are bigger and faster.
That wasn't my point. I didn't say it doesn't matter, but said I have seen too many kids whose game performance didn't match their offer they received because of their measurables. I understand that recruiting is an imperfect science, and it was just an observation over the years.
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  #50  
Old 12-24-18, 09:26 AM
queencitybuckeye queencitybuckeye is offline
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Measurables matter. For every exception are hundreds of kids that make the generality true.

Stated differently: "The fight isn't always to the strongest nor the race to the swiftest - but that's the way to bet".
- unknown
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  #51  
Old 12-24-18, 11:15 AM
Kballer Kballer is offline
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The majority of the players end up exactly where they belong whether that is D1 or NAIA. Too many fight their natural fit and aim wrong- going to only FBS D1 camps as a lineman who is 6’ tall is too common and then can’t understand why they don’t have offers. A kid with a decent ACT/GpA and size and speed will get to play college football if they want to.

With twitter and Hudl being an equalizer of getting kids from all types of high schools looks, where you play matters less than ever.
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  #52  
Old 12-24-18, 12:27 PM
Ballboy000 Ballboy000 is offline
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Originally Posted by Kballer View Post
The majority of the players end up exactly where they belong whether that is D1 or NAIA. Too many fight their natural fit and aim wrong- going to only FBS D1 camps as a lineman who is 6’ tall is too common and then can’t understand why they don’t have offers. A kid with a decent ACT/GpA and size and speed will get to play college football if they want to.

With twitter and Hudl being an equalizer of getting kids from all types of high schools looks, where you play matters less than ever.
The great majority of kids (over 90%) should be attending camps below the D1 level or camps that include a lot of coaches below the D1 level of play if they want offers. There are over 700 high school football programs in Ohio and only around 100-150 players a year commit to D1 schools. Last year it was 117. Even if you get an offer at a D1 school it does not mean they are going to sign you. Tennessee has 440 offers out right now. Michigan State 209 out for less than 25 scholarships available. Source: https://twitter.com/Mark__Porter
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  #53  
Old 12-27-18, 12:30 PM
Pull-to-Trap Pull-to-Trap is offline
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It does matter where you go to college. The goal should be to get into the best available college for your intended degree/profession. If you can use football to get help paying for it or even get you help through admissions then good for you.

The best degree and the networking potential are goal.
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  #54  
Old 12-27-18, 01:23 PM
GCLFan99 GCLFan99 is offline
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Originally Posted by Pull-to-Trap View Post
It does matter where you go to college. The goal should be to get into the best available college for your intended degree/profession. If you can use football to get help paying for it or even get you help through admissions then good for you.

The best degree and the networking potential are goal.


In my humble opinion there are three reasons to play football (or any sport) in college.

1. Scholarships - if you can get a full or partial scholarship that will allow you to graduate with little or no debt, that is a compelling reason to pursue an opportunity to play in college.

2. If it helps a student get acceptance into a college that they would not otherwise be able to get admitted to without the sport. For most kids this means an Ivy or one of the very selective DIII schools like U of Chicago, Carnegie Mellon, Tufts, etc. Leveraing one's ability to play football to get into a world class university is a compelling reason to play.

3. Passion for the sport. Some kids are incredibly passionate about the sport and want to continue in college. Some kids get caught up in being recruited and being able to tweet their offers. Many of those kids quit after a year. A kid who is truly passionate will play at the DII and DIII level if other options are not available.

I believe that kids still need to make sure that they believe the school will be the right fit academically, socially and otherwise beyond just football. If their only offers are from very small schools in rural places, will they be happy when the season is over? Does the school have the major they really want to pursue? Is the school too far from home for them? Do they feel like the will "fit in" with the overall student population?

I think an added benefit of playing football is the enhanced alumni connections one can make. While alumni of schools are often willing to help out graduates when networking and looking for work, I think a shared connection of playing a sport deepens that network. I have spoken to football coaches who contact former players on behalf of one of their graduating players to help find a job.

Pull to trap nailed it particularly with the last sentence about using football to get the best possible degree and networking connections
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  #55  
Old 12-27-18, 05:14 PM
IrishBuckeye IrishBuckeye is offline
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Troy had a RB, Culp-Bishop who was fantastic. One of the best backs I have seen in the area in a long time
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  #56  
Old 12-27-18, 07:50 PM
ELK Strong ELK Strong is offline
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Originally Posted by GCLFan99 View Post


In my humble opinion there are three reasons to play football (or any sport) in college.

1. Scholarships - if you can get a full or partial scholarship that will allow you to graduate with little or no debt, that is a compelling reason to pursue an opportunity to play in college.

2. If it helps a student get acceptance into a college that they would not otherwise be able to get admitted to without the sport. For most kids this means an Ivy or one of the very selective DIII schools like U of Chicago, Carnegie Mellon, Tufts, etc. Leveraing one's ability to play football to get into a world class university is a compelling reason to play.

3. Passion for the sport. Some kids are incredibly passionate about the sport and want to continue in college. Some kids get caught up in being recruited and being able to tweet their offers. Many of those kids quit after a year. A kid who is truly passionate will play at the DII and DIII level if other options are not available.

I believe that kids still need to make sure that they believe the school will be the right fit academically, socially and otherwise beyond just football. If their only offers are from very small schools in rural places, will they be happy when the season is over? Does the school have the major they really want to pursue? Is the school too far from home for them? Do they feel like the will "fit in" with the overall student population?

I think an added benefit of playing football is the enhanced alumni connections one can make. While alumni of schools are often willing to help out graduates when networking and looking for work, I think a shared connection of playing a sport deepens that network. I have spoken to football coaches who contact former players on behalf of one of their graduating players to help find a job.

Pull to trap nailed it particularly with the last sentence about using football to get the best possible degree and networking connections
Great post! I agree with your perspective here
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  #57  
Old 12-27-18, 07:51 PM
ELK Strong ELK Strong is offline
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Originally Posted by IrishBuckeye View Post
Troy had a RB, Culp-Bishop who was fantastic. One of the best backs I have seen in the area in a long time
Does he have any offers?
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  #58  
Old 12-27-18, 08:31 PM
Salesman Salesman is offline
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Originally Posted by TroyTrojan05 View Post
Jaydon Culp Bishop of Troy

He's so dynamic and is one of the fastest players in Ohio. Rushed for over 2,000 yds. Only downside is he is slightly built. Probably around 180/185 but has room to add some bulk.

He only has MAC/UC etc. after him

IMO he would do fine at a mid level big 10 school
The difference between the MAC/UC and any BIG10 school is so minute the average fan could not pick up on it.
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  #59  
Old 12-27-18, 09:21 PM
Ballboy000 Ballboy000 is offline
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Originally Posted by GCLFan99 View Post


In my humble opinion there are three reasons to play football (or any sport) in college.

1. Scholarships - if you can get a full or partial scholarship that will allow you to graduate with little or no debt, that is a compelling reason to pursue an opportunity to play in college.

2. If it helps a student get acceptance into a college that they would not otherwise be able to get admitted to without the sport. For most kids this means an Ivy or one of the very selective DIII schools like U of Chicago, Carnegie Mellon, Tufts, etc. Leveraing one's ability to play football to get into a world class university is a compelling reason to play.

3. Passion for the sport. Some kids are incredibly passionate about the sport and want to continue in college. Some kids get caught up in being recruited and being able to tweet their offers. Many of those kids quit after a year. A kid who is truly passionate will play at the DII and DIII level if other options are not available.

I believe that kids still need to make sure that they believe the school will be the right fit academically, socially and otherwise beyond just football. If their only offers are from very small schools in rural places, will they be happy when the season is over? Does the school have the major they really want to pursue? Is the school too far from home for them? Do they feel like the will "fit in" with the overall student population?

I think an added benefit of playing football is the enhanced alumni connections one can make. While alumni of schools are often willing to help out graduates when networking and looking for work, I think a shared connection of playing a sport deepens that network. I have spoken to football coaches who contact former players on behalf of one of their graduating players to help find a job.

Pull to trap nailed it particularly with the last sentence about using football to get the best possible degree and networking connections
Right on target - Great Post.

Last edited by Ballboy000; 12-27-18 at 09:33 PM.
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  #60  
Old 12-27-18, 09:31 PM
Ballboy000 Ballboy000 is offline
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Originally Posted by Salesman View Post
The difference between the MAC/UC and any BIG10 school is so minute the average fan could not pick up on it.
Any difference is in the overall measurables of the team's players. OSU for instance is going to have more overall speed & size at positions on average than UC or MAC teams will have. Of course, if you look hard enough, you may occasionally find some exceptions to that, but they are just that, exceptions.
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