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  #61  
Old 12-04-17, 12:27 PM
superduper superduper is offline
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Canton can keep them! I don't want any of these complainers down in my neck of the woods. Geesh.....it's about the kids competing for a state title, not a bunch of whiny adults b1tching about parking, elevator music during downtime, shuttles, geography, seating, closeness of games, etc., etc., etc........I would be so upset to HAVE to got to Canton to see my school compete for a championship.........Stop the insanity!!!!!!
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  #62  
Old 12-04-17, 01:06 PM
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Perry 67 Perry 67 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcgobucks View Post
Not people....I'm asking what the players would prefer. You can't tell me that the players (a lot of them who are playing their last football game ever) wouldn't love to have that game at the 'Shoe. I know what my son would have chosen....and every kid he knows. I'd have sat in the top row of C-deck if that's what it took to give them that opportunity.
You also would have driven 150 miles. Hear this all the time. Cincy would be perfect if I lived in Mentor. What I mean is if you have a loved one in the game you will go anywhere. Not something that is a big deal. Rotate every 3 years.
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  #63  
Old 12-04-17, 01:07 PM
my2sense my2sense is offline
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We live in an age when its cool to be a critic and make snarky commentary on everything. If the Internet had existed at the first Christmas it would have been "Why did we have to walk so far in the cold just to see a baby?" posted by Three Kings
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  #64  
Old 12-04-17, 05:20 PM
Blue Jay Fan Blue Jay Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by tom_hsfootball_fan View Post
True. And that fix has three letters: N F L . Once the village is built out, there will be events, concerts and NFL celebrities dotting the entire weekend. It will be unmatchable. Ohio has a unique situation and a unique opportunity... and they should damn well accept it.
Fans will NOT care about or do any of that stuff. We're there to watch our kids play for a state title. Period. When the game is over I'm going home. I'm not going to Canton to see the HOF or some fancy stadium, I'm going to see my team play. And this weekend should ALWAYS be about the 7 games and nothing else. It's about our kids, not unwanted distractions.
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  #65  
Old 12-04-17, 07:33 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by Blue Jay Fan View Post
Fans will NOT care about or do any of that stuff. We're there to watch our kids play for a state title. Period. When the game is over I'm going home. I'm not going to Canton to see the HOF or some fancy stadium, I'm going to see my team play. And this weekend should ALWAYS be about the 7 games and nothing else. It's about our kids, not unwanted distractions.
not sure about that....it is an event, in years past ,I have stayed for a couple of days ( this year went up the night before and left after our game) but over the years I have enjoyed the whole experience, and over the years several Bluejays fans we have partied with, have too.....

this year the Minster football team did a tour of the hall fame and was given a very inspirational by the President of the Hall of Fame , Don Baker, which my son said the entire team enjoyed.....


my thoughts are the Stadium in Canton has a better atmosphere for the fans and players...and once they fix the parking issues, I have no problem with driving 3 hours to the game
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  #66  
Old 12-04-17, 11:07 PM
nordodox nordodox is offline
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My crew has attended championship football since 2006. Already decided next year the streak ends, given the ridiculous fairgrounds shuttle, we won't be there. We saw grandparents there to see family play struggle with it all. Never saw even one golf cart getting older folks in/out. The effort was pathetic.

We were handed a page of rules as we entered fairgrounds that said no one would be allowed entrance with anything beyond a clutch purse and watched some bring nearly suitcases of goods.

Pregame music was loud, redundant, and boring. The best of orchestral Disney is NOT what I want or expect at a high school football state championship. Bands trying to warm up for pregame fought LOUD to be LOUDER. It was stupid.

Benson might draw high praise for the facility, but MUCH is STILL left to be desired.
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  #67  
Old 12-05-17, 05:51 AM
sam the butcher sam the butcher is offline
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Originally Posted by my2sense View Post
We live in an age when its cool to be a critic and make snarky commentary on everything.
Irony.
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  #68  
Old 12-05-17, 06:25 AM
Crimson and Black Crimson and Black is offline
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Originally Posted by HTFF View Post
It's a high school event. I wouldn't walk across the street to see anything related to the NFL. And I would never go to Stark county but for the games
And may I ask what utopian paradise do you and your castle reside Mr. HTTF? Something wrong or different about Stark County than the 87 other counties?
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  #69  
Old 12-05-17, 06:35 AM
Crimson and Black Crimson and Black is offline
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Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
We have gone to the finals for 22 years. I have no interest in any of that. If these mean that my tickets will be even more expensive we will stop going.

And I imagine that fans who go to support their sons/grandsons or their local school will not care about any of that either. They will not stay for the weekend to watch schools that they do not care about or for the chance to have their picture taken with an "NFL celebrity."
Thatís how you feel, and thatís fine understandable. But there a great many people who do make a weekend of it that would enjoy and patronize other events, restaraunts, the HOF, NFL SPONSORED Events etc. There are a lot of things that can be done in Canton to increase attendance that simply cannot be done in Columbus. In spite of the giant difference in population, it seems to me that the NE part of the state has a lot more fervent HS Football fans than Columbus. More people with no dog in the fight attend games in Stark County than no dogs in Columbus.
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  #70  
Old 12-05-17, 06:41 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is online now
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Originally Posted by Crimson and Black View Post
But there a great many people who do make a weekend of it that would enjoy and patronize other events, restaraunts, the HOF, NFL SPONSORED Events etc.
There is no evidence of that, and no reason to think it will happen in the future.
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  #71  
Old 12-05-17, 10:12 AM
ru4ml ru4ml is offline
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Originally Posted by nordodox View Post
My crew has attended championship football since 2006. Already decided next year the streak ends, given the ridiculous fairgrounds shuttle, we won't be there. We saw grandparents there to see family play struggle with it all. Never saw even one golf cart getting older folks in/out. The effort was pathetic.

We were handed a page of rules as we entered fairgrounds that said no one would be allowed entrance with anything beyond a clutch purse and watched some bring nearly suitcases of goods.

Pregame music was loud, redundant, and boring. The best of orchestral Disney is NOT what I want or expect at a high school football state championship. Bands trying to warm up for pregame fought LOUD to be LOUDER. It was stupid.

Benson might draw high praise for the facility, but MUCH is STILL left to be desired.
Could not agree with you more. I am one of those grandparents and am not that old, well maybe, and it was ridiculous they made us walk what seemed like a mile after we unloaded the bus and even farther after the game. I can't imagine the strain it had to be on the 70-80 and even a few 90 year olds that we have following our team. They should have had a better designated place for drop off/pick up than what they had. Parking at the fairgrounds was not bad but good thing it wasn't a wet weekend or it would have really been sloppy over there. If Stark county was not prepared they should have waited another year. We knew we could not take seat cushions in but saw plenty have them in hand so not sure what they did but dump them I guess. Music was not desirable and music for the players would have been appropriate instead of all those Hall of Fame commercials no one paid attention to. As far as future NFL events , don't think that will draw any of our folks as we as well as a lot of other communities I would imagine like to go and hopefully celebrate back home than stay in Canton. Have not talked to any players or parents of players to get their take on the new stadium but 100% before this said they preferred playing in the shoe before old Fawcett or Massilon as they don't care about the mystique of playing in Stark County......
And for all those people on here who say Stark county care's more than Columbus about hosting this tourney I did not see any special care being exerted by any workers at the stadium as was somewhat disappointed really on workers being helpful on letting us know where to go.
With that said once they get the parking figured out I would have no problem going there as the stadium itself was great and is easy to get to , although it would be nicer in Columbus since an hour shorter drive.
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  #72  
Old 12-05-17, 10:26 AM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by ru4ml View Post
Could not agree with you more. I am one of those grandparents and am not that old, well maybe, and it was ridiculous they made us walk what seemed like a mile after we unloaded the bus and even farther after the game. I can't imagine the strain it had to be on the 70-80 and even a few 90 year olds that we have following our team. They should have had a better designated place for drop off/pick up than what they had. Parking at the fairgrounds was not bad but good thing it wasn't a wet weekend or it would have really been sloppy over there. If Stark county was not prepared they should have waited another year. We knew we could not take seat cushions in but saw plenty have them in hand so not sure what they did but dump them I guess. Music was not desirable and music for the players would have been appropriate instead of all those Hall of Fame commercials no one paid attention to. As far as future NFL events , don't think that will draw any of our folks as we as well as a lot of other communities I would imagine like to go and hopefully celebrate back home than stay in Canton. Have not talked to any players or parents of players to get their take on the new stadium but 100% before this said they preferred playing in the shoe before old Fawcett or Massilon as they don't care about the mystique of playing in Stark County......
And for all those people on here who say Stark county care's more than Columbus about hosting this tourney I did not see any special care being exerted by any workers at the stadium as was somewhat disappointed really on workers being helpful on letting us know where to go.
With that said once they get the parking figured out I would have no problem going there as the stadium itself was great and is easy to get to , although it would be nicer in Columbus since an hour shorter drive.
count me in on this too, got to work on MUSIC for the kids while they are warming up, and fix the parking......they should not have hosted this year, but get that fixed, I'll be back, with the hopes my team will be back to..
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  #73  
Old 12-05-17, 04:31 PM
NWIndianNation01 NWIndianNation01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nordodox View Post
My crew has attended championship football since 2006. Already decided next year the streak ends, given the ridiculous fairgrounds shuttle, we won't be there. We saw grandparents there to see family play struggle with it all. Never saw even one golf cart getting older folks in/out. The effort was pathetic.

We were handed a page of rules as we entered fairgrounds that said no one would be allowed entrance with anything beyond a clutch purse and watched some bring nearly suitcases of goods.

Pregame music was loud, redundant, and boring. The best of orchestral Disney is NOT what I want or expect at a high school football state championship. Bands trying to warm up for pregame fought LOUD to be LOUDER. It was stupid.

Benson might draw high praise for the facility, but MUCH is STILL left to be desired.
Funny you say you won't be back due to the shuttle...considering it has been said a million times that it will be fixed next year. Sure, this year wasn't perfect, but what can we do now. People will find anything to complain about. Also funny how some say the shuttle was easy and find while other whine over and over again about it. If someone is too old to go through the shuttle situation, they should probably have a handicapped sign and would have been able to park right next to the stadium.

From what I posted on another thread:

Overall our group had a great experience and thoroughly enjoyed the games being in Canton. That said, we live 20 minutes away, so that helped, plus we got to park in the handicapped lot. So we were a little biased. Thoughts on the different parts:

Parking: Again, we parked in the handicapped lot, which was fantastic, but I obviously understand that not many people have that luxury. There was still half of a parking lot open across from the school, so they could have found a way to have some people park there. Also, there were tons of houses having people park in their yards, most barely full. OHSAA probably got a kickback from the parking cost at the fairgrounds, so of course they pushed that and made it sound like you wouldn't have an option by the stadium. I completely understand how people were upset about the fairgrounds. The idea was ridiculous, on top of the issues with mud. Even though we are talking about this year, at least this will not be a problem going forward.

Gate: It was nice having the VIP seating as we got right into the games through the special security line, however, I can see how going through security was a pain for those in the normal lines as they were sometimes pretty large, especially close to the time the gates first opened for each game. They died down pretty quickly though. However, I don't think anyone should be surprised by that considering if you go to a pro game or college game, you tend to wait just as long. I am guessing next year they will have more people scanning to help make it easier. Another thing that was kind of obnoxious was them not allowing people to take in seat cushions. I was lucky to sit in the cushioned VIP section, but not everyone had that luxury either. What is a seat cushion going to hurt? Kind of silly in my mind.

Volunteers: Despite them being very nice, they were not overly helpful. Seemed like any question you asked, they didn't know. Maybe a meeting with them all would have been helpful. When we first entered, nobody knew anything about how the e-tickets worked. We got all the way to our seats before finding out we needed the lanyard pass. None of the workers knew where to get them, but luckily another fan helped us out. Being the younger guy of our group, I volunteered to walk the mile to get them. ha They really needed to have a Tikatap booth at every entrance. Another silly thing. After the first game though, we didn't really have too many questions that they didn't have an answer for. Again, they were very friendly, so that was appreciated.

Stadium: Just wow! Great venue once in your seat. We were way up in the VIP section and felt like we were right down by the field. The guys in our group went to Columbus the last few years and thought they liked it much better in Canton. Much better feel. They said over and over how they felt like the Shoe was just too big and caused for a bad experience overall. Although, I am sure for most of the players, it is cooler to play in the Shoe. Not sure how they feel about it being insanely empty. Probably varies from one person to another. As a fan, I loved the feel and atmosphere.

Concessions: Prices seemed great, especially as we were worried they would be more like NFL prices. Food tasted great too and no long lines...both in the VIP area and in the main concourse. Plus, they never ran out of any food...which was nice.

Overall, I give it an A-. The enjoyment of the games in the stadium were my number 1 criteria and the few negatives is what pushed it down to an A-. If we had to park at the fairgrounds, I could easily see it getting a straight C or possibly lower. They could have waited another year, but they didn't we can't change that now. I expect next year to go pretty flawlessly. We will see.
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  #74  
Old 12-05-17, 04:33 PM
NWIndianNation01 NWIndianNation01 is offline
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I find it crazy that people are whining about the music. Pretty sure they would have done the same thing no matter where it was held. That has nothing to do with the location. Also pretty sure the kids on the field didn't give a rats tail about the music. They were thinking about the game.
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  #75  
Old 12-05-17, 05:07 PM
Lakindo Lakindo is offline
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Originally Posted by NWIndianNation01 View Post
Funny you say you won't be back due to the shuttle...considering it has been said a million times that it will be fixed next year. Sure, this year wasn't perfect, but what can we do now. People will find anything to complain about. Also funny how some say the shuttle was easy and find while other whine over and over again about it. If someone is too old to go through the shuttle situation, they should probably have a handicapped sign and would have been able to park right next to the stadium.

From what I posted on another thread:

Overall our group had a great experience and thoroughly enjoyed the games being in Canton. That said, we live 20 minutes away, so that helped, plus we got to park in the handicapped lot. So we were a little biased. Thoughts on the different parts:

Parking: Again, we parked in the handicapped lot, which was fantastic, but I obviously understand that not many people have that luxury. There was still half of a parking lot open across from the school, so they could have found a way to have some people park there. Also, there were tons of houses having people park in their yards, most barely full. OHSAA probably got a kickback from the parking cost at the fairgrounds, so of course they pushed that and made it sound like you wouldn't have an option by the stadium. I completely understand how people were upset about the fairgrounds. The idea was ridiculous, on top of the issues with mud. Even though we are talking about this year, at least this will not be a problem going forward.

Gate: It was nice having the VIP seating as we got right into the games through the special security line, however, I can see how going through security was a pain for those in the normal lines as they were sometimes pretty large, especially close to the time the gates first opened for each game. They died down pretty quickly though. However, I don't think anyone should be surprised by that considering if you go to a pro game or college game, you tend to wait just as long. I am guessing next year they will have more people scanning to help make it easier. Another thing that was kind of obnoxious was them not allowing people to take in seat cushions. I was lucky to sit in the cushioned VIP section, but not everyone had that luxury either. What is a seat cushion going to hurt? Kind of silly in my mind.

Volunteers: Despite them being very nice, they were not overly helpful. Seemed like any question you asked, they didn't know. Maybe a meeting with them all would have been helpful. When we first entered, nobody knew anything about how the e-tickets worked. We got all the way to our seats before finding out we needed the lanyard pass. None of the workers knew where to get them, but luckily another fan helped us out. Being the younger guy of our group, I volunteered to walk the mile to get them. ha They really needed to have a Tikatap booth at every entrance. Another silly thing. After the first game though, we didn't really have too many questions that they didn't have an answer for. Again, they were very friendly, so that was appreciated.

Stadium: Just wow! Great venue once in your seat. We were way up in the VIP section and felt like we were right down by the field. The guys in our group went to Columbus the last few years and thought they liked it much better in Canton. Much better feel. They said over and over how they felt like the Shoe was just too big and caused for a bad experience overall. Although, I am sure for most of the players, it is cooler to play in the Shoe. Not sure how they feel about it being insanely empty. Probably varies from one person to another. As a fan, I loved the feel and atmosphere.

Concessions: Prices seemed great, especially as we were worried they would be more like NFL prices. Food tasted great too and no long lines...both in the VIP area and in the main concourse. Plus, they never ran out of any food...which was nice.

Overall, I give it an A-. The enjoyment of the games in the stadium were my number 1 criteria and the few negatives is what pushed it down to an A-. If we had to park at the fairgrounds, I could easily see it getting a straight C or possibly lower. They could have waited another year, but they didn't we can't change that now. I expect next year to go pretty flawlessly. We will see.
Good to know the guy with special parking and VIP access had a wonderful time and didn't have to deal with all the issues us peasants did.
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  #76  
Old 12-05-17, 05:10 PM
sam the butcher sam the butcher is offline
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Name one thing....just one, the the SWO fans haven't whined and cried about when the games are in stark county.
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  #77  
Old 12-05-17, 05:26 PM
Caleb Caleb is offline
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Originally Posted by sam the butcher View Post
Name one thing....just one, the the SWO fans haven't whined and cried about when the games are in stark county.
I haven't read every post so I could be wrong here but they use to always complain about the bathrooms and so far I haven't seen that. Of course it didn't snow so you didn't see any complaints about there seats not being cleaned off. Generally speaking people always complain about parking even I who went to McKinley games for 50 years complained about the parking.
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  #78  
Old 12-05-17, 05:27 PM
Cali_Eagle Cali_Eagle is offline
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If the games are to continue to be a one-site event then anyone (read: anywhere) in the State that wishes to host them should be able to put together a bid and offer to host them. IOW, they could and probably should rotate around. No real reason for them to always be in Columbus or Canton. Whatever site is chosen under this system will always advantage some, and disadvantage others. Even choosing Columbus will advantage the Col. Area teams.

With attendance being what it is these days, there is no need for the playoffs to HAVE to be a one-site event. You could use any appropriate sized Stadium that is roughly halfway between the competing teams to keep things as fair as possible for the two teams involved. It seems the day when a large venue like the Akron Rubber Bowl (RIP) or Nippert Stadium or todays Infocision in Akron (not to mention the two competing venues in Ohio Stadium and Benson Stadium) is actually needed to handle the crowds is gone and probably isn't coming back.
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  #79  
Old 12-05-17, 05:39 PM
Termite2 Termite2 is offline
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Originally Posted by sam the butcher View Post
Name one thing....just one, the the SWO fans haven't whined and cried about when the games are in stark county.
Getting the championship trophy
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  #80  
Old 12-05-17, 06:16 PM
sam the butcher sam the butcher is offline
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Originally Posted by Termite2 View Post
Getting the championship trophy
You're wrong. I remember them crying like little beaches that they weren't allowed to go on the field to celebrate with their team. This complaint may have coincided with their whining like little beaches about the police dogs.
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  #81  
Old 12-05-17, 06:22 PM
sam the butcher sam the butcher is offline
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I can't remember what year or what team the fan was from, but I do remember it was a SWO team. Anyway, before they got real serious about not letting fans storm the field, some moron fan made it to the playing surface of PBTS, he wanted a momento....he had a razor knife and was about to cut a piece of the turf, luckily he was spotted by a member of MPD.
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  #82  
Old 12-05-17, 06:48 PM
tom 48 tom 48 is offline
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Originally Posted by Cali_Eagle View Post
If the games are to continue to be a one-site event then anyone (read: anywhere) in the State that wishes to host them should be able to put together a bid and offer to host them. IOW, they could and probably should rotate around. No real reason for them to always be in Columbus or Canton. Whatever site is chosen under this system will always advantage some, and disadvantage others. Even choosing Columbus will advantage the Col. Area teams.

With attendance being what it is these days, there is no need for the playoffs to HAVE to be a one-site event. You could use any appropriate sized Stadium that is roughly halfway between the competing teams to keep things as fair as possible for the two teams involved. It seems the day when a large venue like the Akron Rubber Bowl (RIP) or Nippert Stadium or todays Infocision in Akron (not to mention the two competing venues in Ohio Stadium and Benson Stadium) is actually needed to handle the crowds is gone and probably isn't coming back.
I believe that anyone is able to submit a bid. So, if some part of the state wants to host, submit a proposal.
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  #83  
Old 12-05-17, 07:34 PM
Sykotyk Sykotyk is online now
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Originally Posted by tom 48 View Post
I believe that anyone is able to submit a bid. So, if some part of the state wants to host, submit a proposal.
Anyone CAN submit a bid. However, the OHSAA has a list of criteria for anyone submitting a bid. And for a group that has never hosted before, meeting those criteria may be extremely difficult.

The same issue happens in West Virginia. The games have been in Wheeling for years. And if you know geography, it's not centrally located. Most teams must travel out of state in order to travel to Wheeling. They were in Charleston years ago. And there's always talk of Marshall (Huntington) or WVU (Morgantown) wanting to host, but without ever hosting and no real sense that they will get the chance, the effort to put together a proposal hovers around nil.

So, Wheeling keeps getting the titles. Even though most in that state wish they'd be moved somewhere more central (and C of Charleston's new lights make their stadium much more attractive). To the point where in the past nobody else has even bid on them.

Same situation happens with Ohio. Why would some Chamber of Commerce, University, Tourism Bureau, etc put in the effort to arrange all the things needed to be shored up before submitting a bid when 99% chance it will all be for naught, anyways?
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  #84  
Old 12-05-17, 07:37 PM
sapientia et veritas sapientia et veritas is offline
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Originally Posted by sam the butcher View Post
luckily he was spotted by a member of MPD.
Who promptly stabbed him in the kidney with a shiv.
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  #85  
Old 12-05-17, 08:02 PM
sapientia et veritas sapientia et veritas is offline
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Stark is fine. Not sure why it would stand out as worse than other counties. But it's not in the center of the state which is where the D-I games should be held when the big six are forcibly removed from competition. Let Sts I&E meet X&Moe somewhere in the middle. Let the publics hold their asterisk division in Canton. Have a leather helmet game featuring NFL players cut before the first game between the fake Columbus Panhandles and Portsmouth Spartans for the halftime show. Blow the whistles on all the illegal forward passes.
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  #86  
Old 12-05-17, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Sykotyk View Post
Anyone CAN submit a bid. However, the OHSAA has a list of criteria for anyone submitting a bid. And for a group that has never hosted before, meeting those criteria may be extremely difficult.

The same issue happens in West Virginia. The games have been in Wheeling for years. And if you know geography, it's not centrally located. Most teams must travel out of state in order to travel to Wheeling. They were in Charleston years ago. And there's always talk of Marshall (Huntington) or WVU (Morgantown) wanting to host, but without ever hosting and no real sense that they will get the chance, the effort to put together a proposal hovers around nil.

So, Wheeling keeps getting the titles. Even though most in that state wish they'd be moved somewhere more central (and C of Charleston's new lights make their stadium much more attractive). To the point where in the past nobody else has even bid on them.

Same situation happens with Ohio. Why would some Chamber of Commerce, University, Tourism Bureau, etc put in the effort to arrange all the things needed to be shored up before submitting a bid when 99% chance it will all be for naught, anyways?
99% is a gross exaggeration If the bid process is opened then there is a fair chance. Does the incumbent location have an advantage? Of course, but if a city wants it, they need to put in the work.
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  #87  
Old 12-05-17, 09:03 PM
sam the butcher sam the butcher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sapientia et veritas View Post
Who promptly stabbed him in the kidney with a shiv.
If this is true it infuriates me....damaging a shrine like PBTS? I would hope the shiv to the kidney was only the beginning.
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Old 12-05-17, 11:10 PM
my2sense my2sense is offline
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PBTS is pretty much out of the state finals mix according to OHSAA statements made this weekend. Canton and Columbus are the most likely sites.
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Old 12-06-17, 03:19 PM
Spize Spize is offline
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Originally Posted by my2sense View Post
PBTS is pretty much out of the state finals mix according to OHSAA statements made this weekend. Canton and Columbus are the most likely sites.
Itís my understanding Massillon/PBTS isnít interested. OHSAA pretty much expects a venue to be ok with losing money on the games and answer every OHSAA demand.

Iíll be curious to see where the games are next year (No contract currently exists for 2018, only 2019-2020 in Columbus). OHSAA sounded really happy about Canton springing a $3 per ticket tax on them after the deal for this year was signed.

Right now Cincinnati, if the wanted it, would probably be in their best position ever to make a surprise bid. Doubtful.
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  #90  
Old 12-06-17, 04:00 PM
Football 101 Football 101 is offline
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FYI - the difference between the finals in Stark before this year and the finals now is obviously not split

but the major thing from what I am reading is the HOF controls the music, parking, concessions, security, etc.

Before it was people from the community. The HOF successfully has shipped workers in from cleveland to handle everything - no more community people helping with that extra special touch.

Everything the HOF and Baker has done so far with the "village" has been a HUGE disappointment IN MY OPINION.

The teams and the fans were the furthest things from the minds of the people now making decisions.

Won't care at all if they ship the finals to Cbus and they stay there. NO ONE from the HOF or Baker's circle really invests any time in talking and listening to any HIGH SCHOOL COACHES rather the HOF and Baker just talk at everyone.

the whole deal is a joke - rather have the old crumbling stadium any day than the new white washed boring stadium that stands now.

my $.02
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