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  #61  
Old 12-05-17, 11:37 AM
llthayes19 llthayes19 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
You do realize that in your post you provided a couple of reasons why the GMC would never let you in the conference:

* I get posting bulletin board material on an opponent to fire a team up before a game but putting an email on PERMANENT display from Richard Skinner in order to convey the message that Colerain is afraid to play you guys is beyond over the top and for sure won't get you Colerain's vote to get into the league.

* You also have stated that a conspiracy exists to funnel the best "inner city" athletes to WW. Though for the life of me I'm not sure why the coaches at Taft (which is building a solid program) & the other CPS schools would support this. But you can see where the existence of a vast recruiting program might concern the powers that be in the GMC?

But I am beginning to get a sense for why WW is having trouble finding a league willing to take them in.

As for old school Princeton being afraid to play WW (and before that Forest Park) I highly doubt this. Why am I so sure, because during the 80's, 90's & early 2000's an average (at best) Fairfield football program beat first Forrest Park & later WW probably as often as they lost. And I can attest that during that same stretch the Vikings mostly beat FF.
And do your realize I have been stating reasons what either league hasn't accepted and will never except WW. Secondly, in the early 80's before Fairfield became a member of the GMC. Forest Park played and beat them all the time. Forest Park was in the old Metro Conference. The Class of 83' is when Forest Park stated transfroming into a football contender. My Forest Park class of 89' is when we received our first national ranking. However, we did lose to Fairfield in 87' the same year they won't the State Championship. They on teaam Fairfield to that year was Division 2 Purcell Marion. What Al's won the State Championship. Mind you Forest Park was a D3 team still play a D1 schedule as WW is still doing to this day. And as far as the whole Princeton thing. You have no idea of the history of the neighborhoods of Forest Park in Lincoln Heights. After 87 we had to stop playing them and everything. Understand either you grew up in Lincoln Heights or you grew up in Forest Park at that time. And then for some reason parents would move from Forest Park to Lincoln Heights and vice versa. So it's basically a civil war that most of you Outsiders knew nothing about. And like I said I was downstairs in legendary and Hall of Fame Coach Lou Cynkar office at the time when he was on the phone with Pat Mancuso. And Pat Mancuso clearly said he did not want to play Forest Park at that particular time because he had more to lose than to gain. So the stuff that I'm telling you and have been stating for the past 2 days. Is fact and for the most part is the reason why I am saying neither League will let Winton Woods in. For the fear of them dominating them or possibly taking a playoff space and the GMC that they normally would have. Because they normally have three or four teams that make the playoffs. Who usually exits the first round by the way. That would possibly be another lost they would suffer in conference and because of the Harbin point system it is a possibility that lost her Winton Woods would knock them totally out of the playoffs. I'm giving you a lot of facts and you're giving me speculation of History you have no idea of. And I'm telling you what's coming conspiracy theory or not on building a dynasty. Neither conference wanted Winton Woods in in the first place and I don't expect either one of them to accept them.

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  #62  
Old 12-05-17, 11:41 AM
llthayes19 llthayes19 is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
You do realize that in your post you provided a couple of reasons why the GMC would never let you in the conference:

* I get posting bulletin board material on an opponent to fire a team up before a game but putting an email on PERMANENT display from Richard Skinner in order to convey the message that Colerain is afraid to play you guys is beyond over the top and for sure won't get you Colerain's vote to get into the league.

* You also have stated that a conspiracy exists to funnel the best "inner city" athletes to WW. Though for the life of me I'm not sure why the coaches at Taft (which is building a solid program) & the other CPS schools would support this. But you can see where the existence of a vast recruiting program might concern the powers that be in the GMC?

But I am beginning to get a sense for why WW is having trouble finding a league willing to take them in.

As for old school Princeton being afraid to play WW (and before that Forest Park) I highly doubt this. Why am I so sure, because during the 80's, 90's & early 2000's an average (at best) Fairfield football program beat first Forrest Park & later WW probably as often as they lost. And I can attest that during that same stretch the Vikings mostly beat FF.
Also when WW started backing playing FF in 2008-2010, they beat the breaks off of Fairfield in all the games. FF will never be a threat in the football landscape. As many boys they have to pick from in as much talent they have to pick from. Those kids don't grow in a winning culture through any Fairfield little league program. And I've been living in the Fairfield District since 2001. So I've actually seen it

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  #63  
Old 12-05-17, 11:44 AM
cincifbfan cincifbfan is offline
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Originally Posted by rip_JackTatum View Post
Tell the truth and shame the devil.....
You didn't get in did you
Um I didn't even try. I'm a proud Oak Hills alum, and I'm gonna guess I would've gotten in no problems. I got into X, but even with aid, family couldn't make it work financially. It's that Walnut is not the same, Oak Hills has gone down considerably as well. It happens.
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  #64  
Old 12-05-17, 02:29 PM
mrsimp06 mrsimp06 is offline
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I would like to see the Warriors in a league, the school has added other sports like Crew and Lacross to help bolster its profile, unfortunately there are administrators and coaches that want no part of Winton Woods for a variety of reasons. I see the ECC selecting Western Brown and Little Miami. if Sycamore is really in play I drop Western Brown.
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  #65  
Old 12-05-17, 03:37 PM
deuces dad deuces dad is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
Maybe this year but then again I doubt it. However since going "independent" why would you think WW would win a bunch of GMC titles? I mean the Warriors haven't played a lot of games since 2013 against the better GMC teams. I guess their OT 27 - 24 win over Lakota West in 2013 might have been a good year for WW in the GMC but there's nothing about that win that makes me think they beat Colerain that year. We could go to 2014 but WW lost to Mason 22 - 0 that year and in 2015 WW lost to Mason again 41 - 27. Doubt the Warriors make a whole bunch of noise in either of those years in the GMC.

Look the reasons that WW is not asked to join the GMC have been articulated over and over again on Yappi and it has NOTHING to do with the GMC's fear of the Warriors in football.

Overall WW would struggle in many of the minor sports against the GMC due to numbers. It's funny you left out the 40 point bludgeoning of Mason by Winton Woods in 2013 though !!
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  #66  
Old 12-05-17, 03:42 PM
deuces dad deuces dad is offline
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Originally Posted by Vinegar View Post
All good points...but, I heard Sycamore was bolting to ECC. Already a done deal.

IF so, then what?

This has been rumored for a number of years, as Sycamore is the smallest GMC school by far. I would expect West Clermont to take their place in the GMC, as they are a huge school, that is threatening to encompass all of Clermont county. Also look for Withrow to leave the ECC, as they are only competitive in Boys Basketball and Girls Track & Field
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  #67  
Old 12-05-17, 03:48 PM
deuces dad deuces dad is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
Main reasons are that WW is D2 and the GMC is trying to be an all D1 conference. This is especially critical since moving to an 8 game league schedule. The other main reason is the perception that the Warriors would struggle in a lot of the "lessor" sports that are important to the GMC. The third is that even if they wanted to add WW someone else would have to come in with them to keep it an even number of teams.
That reasoning worked until Princeton became D2 a couple of years ago.
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  #68  
Old 12-05-17, 04:19 PM
llthayes19 llthayes19 is offline
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Originally Posted by deuces dad View Post
Overall WW would struggle in many of the minor sports against the GMC due to numbers. It's funny you left out the 40 point bludgeoning of Mason by Winton Woods in 2013 though !!
OK WW is loading basketball back up. With the hiring of Ex UC, NBA player and Ex Cincinnati St. coach Andre Tate. GMC Basketball is overall OK at best. Mason is consistent and Princeton is building a powerhouse. Middletown is always steady. As far as baseball the Lakota's and Mason Run that. So out the major 3 sports WW only struggle would be baseball. And that nothing with WW baseball program sucking. And you keep bring up Mason but I didnt mention how WW beat them 52-7 either. But at the end of the day the GMC froze WW out in football. Hence the reason why the GMC stopped playing them. And why they Moved over to play the GCL schools.

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  #69  
Old 12-05-17, 05:38 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is online now
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Originally Posted by deuces dad View Post
That reasoning worked until Princeton became D2 a couple of years ago.
Princeton is back up to D1 after being at D2 for a season or so. My guess is that with that beautiful new campus layout he Vikings will remain solidly D1 for the foreseeable future.

Also Princeton is a founding member of the GMC and they will not be treated in the same way for dropping to D2 (if that should happen again) as a new applicant to the league will.
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  #70  
Old 12-05-17, 05:47 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is online now
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Originally Posted by deuces dad View Post
Overall WW would struggle in many of the minor sports against the GMC due to numbers. It's funny you left out the 40 point bludgeoning of Mason by Winton Woods in 2013 though !!
Not funny at all, Mason was 2 - 5 that year in the GMC and finished in 8th place! I've already stated that WW would be a perennial top 5 finisher in football if they were in the league. What I'm arguing against is that they would become dominant within the league and that they would unseat Colerain. I've used the 2014 & 2015 Mason games and the 2013 Lakota West game as representing teams that finished in the top 3 of the GMC the year they played WW as either beating WW (Mason) or taking them to OT before losing (LW).

Go to the GMC website and you'll see that in any year the top half of the conference will put some bad beatings on the bottom half. The fact WW did it to doesn't mean that they would be the new top dog in the conference.
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  #71  
Old 12-05-17, 05:52 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is online now
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Originally Posted by llthayes19 View Post
Also when WW started backing playing FF in 2008-2010, they beat the breaks off of Fairfield in all the games. FF will never be a threat in the football landscape. As many boys they have to pick from in as much talent they have to pick from. Those kids don't grow in a winning culture through any Fairfield little league program. And I've been living in the Fairfield District since 2001. So I've actually seen it

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And yet FF has one D1 state title and WW has one D2 title.

And yet FF has made the playoffs the last 3 years in a row and WW has made them once.

And for the record I'm not on Yappi claiming FF is a football dynasty on the verge of dominating Ohio D1.

And as for WW beating FF badly during the period of 2008 - 2010 you are aware that this was during FF's 22 game losing streak and pretty much everyone FF played was smacking them around.
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  #72  
Old 12-05-17, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by llthayes19 View Post
And do your realize I have been stating reasons what either league hasn't accepted and will never except WW. Secondly, in the early 80's before Fairfield became a member of the GMC. Forest Park played and beat them all the time. Forest Park was in the old Metro Conference. The Class of 83' is when Forest Park stated transfroming into a football contender. My Forest Park class of 89' is when we received our first national ranking. However, we did lose to Fairfield in 87' the same year they won't the State Championship. They on teaam Fairfield to that year was Division 2 Purcell Marion. What Al's won the State Championship. Mind you Forest Park was a D3 team still play a D1 schedule as WW is still doing to this day. And as far as the whole Princeton thing. You have no idea of the history of the neighborhoods of Forest Park in Lincoln Heights. After 87 we had to stop playing them and everything. Understand either you grew up in Lincoln Heights or you grew up in Forest Park at that time. And then for some reason parents would move from Forest Park to Lincoln Heights and vice versa. So it's basically a civil war that most of you Outsiders knew nothing about. And like I said I was downstairs in legendary and Hall of Fame Coach Lou Cynkar office at the time when he was on the phone with Pat Mancuso. And Pat Mancuso clearly said he did not want to play Forest Park at that particular time because he had more to lose than to gain. So the stuff that I'm telling you and have been stating for the past 2 days. Is fact and for the most part is the reason why I am saying neither League will let Winton Woods in. For the fear of them dominating them or possibly taking a playoff space and the GMC that they normally would have. Because they normally have three or four teams that make the playoffs. Who usually exits the first round by the way. That would possibly be another lost they would suffer in conference and because of the Harbin point system it is a possibility that lost her Winton Woods would knock them totally out of the playoffs. I'm giving you a lot of facts and you're giving me speculation of History you have no idea of. And I'm telling you what's coming conspiracy theory or not on building a dynasty. Neither conference wanted Winton Woods in in the first place and I don't expect either one of them to accept them.

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I think you need to work on your "facts" a bit starting with Fairfield. The Indians are a FOUNDING member of the GMC having joined the league in the 1960's NOT the early 1980's.

And while my memory may be getting weaker and the past is a bit of a blur FF won their state title in 1986, not 1987 and as I recall FF beat the emerging football power Forest Park in 1985, 1986, 1987 & 1988. In the 90's, when the FF football program was down, I remember them beating FP about as often as FP beat them.

Then Grippa came on board and I believe FF beat WW most of the years he was coach (1998, 1999, 2000 and I think 2002). One game that sticks out was in 2000 when the Indians beat FP in week ten 24 - 7 to make the D1 playoffs that year. I remember worrying that I was going to die standing at the top of your visitors bleachers - you know the old wooden ones - because it seemed like they were about to crash. After Grippa left and before the bottom fell out of the Indian football program the coach Datillo led Indians were 2 - 0 versus WW beating them 33 - 19 in 2004 and then beating a highly regarded WW team the following year (2005) 28 - 20.
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  #73  
Old 12-05-17, 06:19 PM
llthayes19 llthayes19 is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
I think you need to work on your "facts" a bit starting with Fairfield. The Indians are a FOUNDING member of the GMC having joined the league in the 1960's NOT the early 1980's.

And while my memory may be getting weaker and the past is a bit of a blur FF won their state title in 1986, not 1987 and as I recall FF beat the emerging football power Forest Park in 1985, 1986, 1987 & 1988. In the 90's, when the FF football program was down, I remember them beating FP about as often as FP beat them.

Then Grippa came on board and I believe FF beat WW most of the years he was coach (1998, 1999, 2000 and I think 2002). One game that sticks out was in 2000 when the Indians beat FP in week ten 24 - 7 to make the D1 playoffs that year. I remember worrying that I was going to die standing at the top of your visitors bleachers - you know the old wooden ones - because it seemed like they were about to crash. After Grippa left and before the bottom fell out of the Indian football program the coach Datillo led Indians were 2 - 0 versus WW beating them 33 - 19 in 2004 and then beating a highly regarded WW team the following year (2005) 28 - 20.
I never really mentioned the 90's not sure what happened. I was playing college, Canadian, Arena and semi pro during those periods. But I know WW beat them in 2007-2010. Which is one of the main request by Jason Krause to take Winton Woods off their schedule when he left Middletown. Because it was getting the brakes beat off of them. And as I mentioned before the GMC has froze Winton Woods out. So I know they're not going to the GMC conference. Like I told you before football is King I don't care about the other Minor Sports because those don't generate dollars for the schools. And at the end of the day Winton Woods is a threat to all leagues ECC and GMC. You can bring up all the facts you want. But as of today none of those schools want to play Winton Woods

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  #74  
Old 12-05-17, 06:40 PM
llthayes19 llthayes19 is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
And yet FF has one D1 state title and WW has one D2 title.

And yet FF has made the playoffs the last 3 years in a row and WW has made them once.

And for the record I'm not on Yappi claiming FF is a football dynasty on the verge of dominating Ohio D1.

And as for WW beating FF badly during the period of 2008 - 2010 you are aware that this was during FF's 22 game losing streak and pretty much everyone FF played was smacking them around.
I guess if you can make it excuse for Fairfield 22 game losing streak. I guess I can make an excuse why Winton Woods did not make the playoffs prior to getting kicked out of the fort ancient lead. Do you realize since 2012 this is their first year they had a 10 game schedule

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  #75  
Old 12-05-17, 06:48 PM
llthayes19 llthayes19 is offline
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Originally Posted by llthayes19 View Post
I guess if you can make it excuse for Fairfield 22 game losing streak. I guess I can make an excuse why Winton Woods did not make the playoffs prior to getting kicked out of the fort ancient lead. Do you realize since 2012 this is their first year they had a 10 game schedule

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Also FF has made the playoffs the past 3 years. But WW has more playoff wins in the past 3 years than FF.

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  #76  
Old 12-05-17, 06:57 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is online now
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Originally Posted by llthayes19 View Post
I never really mentioned the 90's not sure what happened. I was playing college, Canadian, Arena and semi pro during those periods. But I know WW beat them in 2007-2010. Which is one of the main request by Jason Krause to take Winton Woods off their schedule when he left Middletown. Because it was getting the brakes beat off of them. And as I mentioned before the GMC has froze Winton Woods out. So I know they're not going to the GMC conference. Like I told you before football is King I don't care about the other Minor Sports because those don't generate dollars for the schools. And at the end of the day Winton Woods is a threat to all leagues ECC and GMC. You can bring up all the facts you want. But as of today none of those schools want to play Winton Woods

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Here's the problem with your reasoning about coach Krause requesting that WW be dropped from the schedule based on WW beating FF badly: between 2007 - 2010 almost EVERYONE beat FF badly. There was nothing special about the WW beat downs. In fact looking at 2007 for example, a year the Indians went 0 - 10, WW only beat them 27 - 12! Trust me GMC teams were putting much bigger whopping's on FF then that.

BTW, my understanding is that the reason FF no longer plays WW is that the rivalry was getting to hot.

As far as the "minor sports" not generating dollars the purpose of HS athletics is not to generate revenue but to create opportunities for as many students as possible to be able to compete in competitive sports. The ONLY reason for athletics in high school is that it's a character building, lesson learning activity for youth. Being able to make some money off it is simply icing on the cake, NOT a primary reason for being.

And at the end of the day the "threat" WW represents to the ECC & GMC has NOTHING to do with them winning football games. I suspect it has everything to do with some (not all) WW supporters having your take on matters relating to high school athletics.
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  #77  
Old 12-05-17, 06:59 PM
W@rrior 11 W@rrior 11 is offline
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WW is a threat to all the Conferences in Cincinnati in football. I just don't see them getting in the GMC because they are all D1 schools. Colerain hasn't played a Ohio school that wasn't D1 (With the exception of when Princeton was D2 for a year). With that being said I don't think Colerain is dodging WW I just think they don't want to play anyone who isn't D1 due to how the harbin points and the playoff system works. Prime example is Elder missing the playoffs but winning against a 9-1 WW D2 team. If WW would've been D1 and 9-1 Elder for sure would've been over Moeller and Fairfield.
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  #78  
Old 12-05-17, 07:04 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is online now
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Originally Posted by llthayes19 View Post
Also FF has made the playoffs the past 3 years. But WW has more playoff wins in the past 3 years than FF.

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That's true. But again if you're saying that WW would dominate the GMC and unseat Colerain you have to set your sights higher then FF which over the last 3 years has finished 4th, 2nd & 4th in the conference.
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  #79  
Old 12-05-17, 07:15 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is online now
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Originally Posted by W@rrior 11 View Post
WW is a threat to all the Conferences in Cincinnati in football. I just don't see them getting in the GMC because they are all D1 schools. Colerain hasn't played a Ohio school that wasn't D1 (With the exception of when Princeton was D2 for a year). With that being said I don't think Colerain is dodging WW I just think they don't want to play anyone who isn't D1 due to how the harbin points and the playoff system works. Prime example is Elder missing the playoffs but winning against a 9-1 WW D2 team. If WW would've been D1 and 9-1 Elder for sure would've been over Moeller and Fairfield.
I'm curious of the use of the term "threat" by some in describing how other conferences view WW football. IMO it's a provocative mind set that probably not only complicates WW's interactions with other leagues but also keeps the focus off what WW needs to do to make themselves more attractive to a conference. I get that it's easier to accept that the reason the ECC or GMC aren't inviting WW in is that they're afraid of them in football then to face other potential issues.

But I don't buy it and here's why: under no scenario can anyone believe that WW would have dominated the GMC like Colerain has since 2000. So if the GMC schools were so afraid of being "dominated" and viewed the inability to win conference titles in football as the most important goal of their athletic programs then they would have long ago dissolved the GMC and reformed it minus Colerain.

That they haven't done this convinces me that the powers that be in the GMC don't view domination in football by one team as a "threat". An annoyance maybe but not a big deal. To the typical GMC BOE member, Superintendent, HS Principal and even AD, winning football games is nice and they would love to end Colerain's streak but on a scale of what's important in their district it lies down near the bottom.
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Old 12-05-17, 07:27 PM
llthayes19 llthayes19 is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
That's true. But again if you're saying that WW would dominate the GMC and unseat Colerain you have to set your sights higher then FF which over the last 3 years has finished 4th, 2nd & 4th in the conference.
I didn't say they dominant Colerain. But I would bet they would beat them. No one in the GMC is close to beating them. Haven't they won the GMC like 17/18 years in a row. And don't have a undefeated conference record those 17/18 years as well. Also WW has beaten everyone in the GMC except Colerain and Oak Hills. Thats only because they have never played them.

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  #81  
Old 12-06-17, 12:00 AM
mrsimp06 mrsimp06 is offline
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this whole song and dance is frustrating, I keep hearing every excuse in the world why people don't want Winton Woods in a conference. SWOC in reality is a perfect fit but, schools 10 minutes away yet they don't want to play, coaches threatening to quit if Warriors added to the conference. truly a shame.
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Old 12-06-17, 12:40 AM
llthayes19 llthayes19 is offline
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Originally Posted by mrsimp06 View Post
this whole song and dance is frustrating, I keep hearing every excuse in the world why people don't want Winton Woods in a conference. SWOC in reality is a perfect fit but, schools 10 minutes away yet they don't want to play, coaches threatening to quit if Warriors added to the conference. truly a shame.
I just looked that conference up and the members in it. That conference scares me for the simple fact that if WW goes on a run of winning a back to back football conference championships. That the same thing will eventually happen to them from when they was in FAVC.

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  #83  
Old 12-06-17, 09:40 AM
MickeyMantle MickeyMantle is offline
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this whole song and dance is frustrating, I keep hearing every excuse in the world why people don't want Winton Woods in a conference.
Just hold Mass in the gym every Friday and join the GCL South. We'll play you.
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  #84  
Old 12-06-17, 11:36 AM
llthayes19 llthayes19 is offline
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Originally Posted by MickeyMantle View Post
Just hold Mass in the gym every Friday and join the GCL South. We'll play you.
🤣🤣🤣 that's funny because they actually rent the school out to a church every Sunday

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  #85  
Old 12-06-17, 11:44 AM
cincifbfan cincifbfan is offline
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Just hold Mass in the gym every Friday and join the GCL South. We'll play you.
That's funny, but you can't do that because then you will have mass more often than the GCL schools.
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  #86  
Old 12-06-17, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
Main reasons are that WW is D2 and the GMC is trying to be an all D1 conference. This is especially critical since moving to an 8 game league schedule. The other main reason is the perception that the Warriors would struggle in a lot of the "lessor" sports that are important to the GMC. The third is that even if they wanted to add WW someone else would have to come in with them to keep it an even number of teams.
Princeton is D2 also
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  #87  
Old 12-06-17, 01:44 PM
MickeyMantle MickeyMantle is offline
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Originally Posted by llthayes19 View Post
🤣🤣🤣 that's funny because they actually rent the school out to a church every Sunday

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  #88  
Old 12-06-17, 01:50 PM
cincifbfan cincifbfan is offline
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Originally Posted by warriorblue View Post
Princeton is D2 also
Princeton is most definitely D1. They had a brief period of D2, but are now D1 again!
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  #89  
Old 12-06-17, 02:06 PM
warriorblue warriorblue is offline
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Originally Posted by mrsimp06 View Post
this whole song and dance is frustrating, I keep hearing every excuse in the world why people don't want Winton Woods in a conference. SWOC in reality is a perfect fit but, schools 10 minutes away yet they don't want to play, coaches threatening to quit if Warriors added to the conference. truly a shame.
I'm with you. I'm tired if hearing about this. This is a joke. I remember one of the arguments of WW not getting in to the ECC was distance. But you invite Harrison and Little Miami. Smh. I could go on and on but I will digress.
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  #90  
Old 12-06-17, 02:07 PM
warriorblue warriorblue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cincifbfan View Post
Princeton is most definitely D1. They had a brief period of D2, but are now D1 again!
Yes they are. So is WW except football.
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