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  #31  
Old 11-27-17, 07:35 AM
Down The Road Down The Road is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangerfan View Post
Thinking that schools would choose to play up a division to challenge themselves is a fantasy. That would be like Amazon saying, "This business is getting too easy. I think we'll raise what we pay to our suppliers to make it more challenging."

What you might see is schools moving up if they felt the higher division is easier (such as schools fleeing division six to avoid Marion Local).
I don't disagree, but I just wanted to throw out an option for those that are disappointed with the lack of competition .
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  #32  
Old 11-27-17, 08:50 AM
Today Today is offline
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Just make it a club sport, then everyone can choose their own tournament and the level of competition they want to compete against. If you think the OHSAA is bad, imagine if you got the club people involved.

I know the set up today is as good as its been in my 50 plus years on earth. My only change would be to drop the regular season to 9 games and put 16 teams in from every region. The more teams getting a chance to compete, the better.
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  #33  
Old 11-27-17, 09:38 AM
Mikefln Mikefln is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangerfan View Post
Thinking that schools would choose to play up a division to challenge themselves is a fantasy. That would be like Amazon saying, "This business is getting too easy. I think we'll raise what we pay to our suppliers to make it more challenging."

What you might see is schools moving up if they felt the higher division is easier (such as schools fleeing division six to avoid Marion Local).
In PA it works both ways. Aliquppia would be 1A based on enrollment which is the smallest division but they choose to play up to 3A for better competition as they would win the statetitle almost every year in A, hell they almost do that anyways in 3A.

In district 10 a group of schools in 4A moved up to 5A to avoid playing Erie Cathedral Prep. They knew they would never advance in the state playoffs at 5A but they just wanted to compete for the district title as ECP only lost 1 in the past decade.
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  #34  
Old 11-27-17, 09:41 AM
big medicine big medicine is offline
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Originally Posted by Down The Road View Post
It's too bad those teams that feel like they are not getting challenged could not have the opportunity to play up a division or 2 if they chose to. That would also let teams and programs in their region that are left every year to wonder what it would be like with out at MAC or perennial powerhouse in the region get a feel for the next level and some new blood in the state semi's. If there was a way to do it that would not get manipulated I think sorting teams by roster size in the 3 smallest divisions would create a truly competitive playing field. I do realize the pitfalls of that, but in a perfect world......

So in a system where it was felt needed to create a seventh division because schools with 600 boys walking the halls couldn't talk enough guys into going out for football to be competitive with bigger schools, you propose to handicap schools with say 150 boys because 85 of them went out for football ?

But I could see this gaining traction in the future, probably along side some sort of success penalties. After kicking private schools out, the focus will next fall on the successful public programs. Instead of studying, emulating, and out working them, it will be decided that it would be much easier to just legislate some sort of handicapping system, bumping them up divisions until they become one of the masses, damn site easier way to level the playing field by some people's thinking.

As to some feeling there is a lack of competition in the playoffs, I don't know what the answer is there. But one thing I have noticed is how hard it is for many of the good programs to schedule out of conference games. What if a system was devised that next years first game, (or two, three, years down the road for logistical purposes) were determined by playoff advancement. Say if you go out in week 11, you open with a team that also lost week 11 in your region,( if not a league mate and already on the schedule) and so on. Say you go all the way and win state, you open with the runner up of the division up ( again providing they are not a league mate and already on the schedule).
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  #35  
Old 11-27-17, 09:51 AM
FremontKeith FremontKeith is offline
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7 is too many. Should be no more than four.
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  #36  
Old 11-27-17, 10:27 AM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambeau Fields View Post
Because the difference between the biggest D1 and smallest Di was 3x the enrollment. 3x. How many other divisions can say the same?
There were considerable disparities enrollment wise on the other end of the spectrum, too. Compare Marion Local to say... Portsmouth Notre Dame? That’s a 3x enrollment disparity most years.
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  #37  
Old 11-27-17, 10:44 AM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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If someone were to bell curve the enrollments of the football participating schools across divisions, it’d justify the current set-up.

DVII: Represents schools in the 12.5th (and below) percentile of enrollment
DVI: Represents schools in the 27.5th percentile of enrollment
DV: Represents schools in the 42.5th percentile of enrollment
DIV: Represents schools in the 57.5th percentile of enrollment
DIII: Represents schools in the 72.5th percentile of enrollment
DII: Represents schools in the 87.5th percentile of enrollment
DI: Represents schools in the 87.6th (and above) percentile of enrollment,
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  #38  
Old 11-27-17, 10:55 AM
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Mr. Slippery Mr. Slippery is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleFan View Post
Going to 8 when they add 8-Man


I have no problem with the divisions
I don't envision many schools that do not currently offer football deciding to start 8-man from scratch. The initial costs of acquiring equipment would be a difficult hurdle to clear, not to mention how it might cannibalize other fall offerings in which the school might have already made a name for itself (ex. soccer or cross country). If so, rounding up enough teams to have an 8-man tournament would come due to a reduction in the number of teams playing 11-man.

In that case, I'd rather see the set-up remain at 7 divisions with I-VI being 11-man, and make VII the 8-man division. There are 714 schools playing 11-man right now. Let's say at least 40 of them eventually decide 8-man is the better fit for them. That leaves at most 674 playing 11-man. I'd then make DI the top 64 and spread the other 610 evenly among the other 5 11-man divisions. That puts about 122 in each division from II-VI. That might be enough extra teams to reduce the complaints of the lower divisions being watered down. The complaints about enrollment disparity in DI will always exist, but the disparity is reduced a little by cutting it down to the top 64 instead of 72. The other 5 divisions would have about the same number of teams that they had under the old 6-division format.

Last edited by Mr. Slippery; 11-27-17 at 11:05 AM.
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  #39  
Old 11-27-17, 11:04 AM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Originally Posted by dograt View Post
I agree! and 14 weightclasses in wrestling is way too many. Let's just have 3 wrestling champions! And why do track runners have all those damn distances anyway...100,200,400,800,mile,2mile...blah, blah, blah. You're either fast or slow. Just a 100 and a mile should do it. Don't even get me started on swimming different distances AND strokes!
Bah humbug! I'm against anything that gives more kids success!
How many divisions are their in Ohio High School Track and Field : a total of 3. To win a State Championship in track is quite an accomplishment.
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  #40  
Old 11-27-17, 11:09 AM
Today Today is offline
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So winning an individual state title in track or wrestling, isn't quite an accomplishment.
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  #41  
Old 11-27-17, 11:17 AM
Jaws31 Jaws31 is offline
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Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
How many divisions are their in Ohio High School Track and Field : a total of 3. To win a State Championship in track is quite an accomplishment.
And winning one in football in DV, DVI, or DVIi isn't?
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  #42  
Old 11-27-17, 11:18 AM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Originally Posted by Today View Post
So winning an individual state title in track or wrestling, isn't quite an accomplishment.
Yes it is considering their are only 3 divisions.
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  #43  
Old 11-27-17, 11:22 AM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
Yes it is considering their are only 3 divisions.
...and each division awards multiple individual state titles for the respective events. Golf also does this, as there’s a state champion team and a state champion individual.
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  #44  
Old 11-27-17, 12:55 PM
big medicine big medicine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dock View Post
If someone were to bell curve the enrollments of the football participating schools across divisions, it’d justify the current set-up.

DVII: Represents schools in the 12.5th (and below) percentile of enrollment
DVI: Represents schools in the 27.5th percentile of enrollment
DV: Represents schools in the 42.5th percentile of enrollment
DIV: Represents schools in the 57.5th percentile of enrollment
DIII: Represents schools in the 72.5th percentile of enrollment
DII: Represents schools in the 87.5th percentile of enrollment
DI: Represents schools in the 87.6th (and above) percentile of enrollment,

So how would that flesh out in real numbers of students and schools per division ?
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  #45  
Old 11-27-17, 02:56 PM
bulldog1974 bulldog1974 is offline
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Exclamation

Better yet, do away with open enrollment and Competitive Balance and put the privates in their own playoffs. Problem solved.
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  #46  
Old 11-27-17, 03:11 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by bulldog1974 View Post
Better yet, do away with open enrollment and Competitive Balance and put the privates in their own playoffs. Problem solved.
Why do away with open enrollment? Have something against choice?
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  #47  
Old 11-27-17, 03:51 PM
Jaws31 Jaws31 is offline
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Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
Why do away with open enrollment? Have something against choice?
Yep, according to people like this how dare someone have the audacity to actually choose to not play for home team.
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  #48  
Old 11-27-17, 03:55 PM
Jaws31 Jaws31 is offline
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Originally Posted by bulldog1974 View Post
Better yet, do away with open enrollment and Competitive Balance and put the privates in their own playoffs. Problem solved.
Your problems would just be beginning. For all those who are proponets of the seperate playoffs between privates and publics, be careful what you wish for. If you think the lower divisions are irrelevant now, if you split most if not all public state champions will become irrelevant. Just ask New Jersey.
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  #49  
Old 11-27-17, 04:02 PM
queencitybuckeye queencitybuckeye is offline
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Originally Posted by bulldog1974 View Post
Better yet, do away with open enrollment and Competitive Balance and put the privates in their own playoffs. Problem solved.
You really don't understand that open enrollment has little or nothing to do with sports?
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  #50  
Old 11-27-17, 05:30 PM
bulldog1974 bulldog1974 is offline
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Originally Posted by queencitybuckeye View Post
You really don't understand that open enrollment has little or nothing to do with sports?
You obviously have no clue how open enrollment steals athletes from the home school. It's the same as recruiting, which is done, almost openly. Therefore, you are a fool to make a comment like you did.
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  #51  
Old 11-27-17, 05:32 PM
bulldog1974 bulldog1974 is offline
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Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
Why do away with open enrollment? Have something against choice?
Yes, open enrollment recruiting by a neighboring school district. Said district has almost 500 open enrolled kids, majority is from two neighboring districts. Basis is sports, not academics.
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  #52  
Old 11-27-17, 05:47 PM
StateChampion2012 StateChampion2012 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
I don't envision many schools that do not currently offer football deciding to start 8-man from scratch. The initial costs of acquiring equipment would be a difficult hurdle to clear, not to mention how it might cannibalize other fall offerings in which the school might have already made a name for itself (ex. soccer or cross country). If so, rounding up enough teams to have an 8-man tournament would come due to a reduction in the number of teams playing 11-man.

In that case, I'd rather see the set-up remain at 7 divisions with I-VI being 11-man, and make VII the 8-man division. There are 714 schools playing 11-man right now. Let's say at least 40 of them eventually decide 8-man is the better fit for them. That leaves at most 674 playing 11-man. I'd then make DI the top 64 and spread the other 610 evenly among the other 5 11-man divisions. That puts about 122 in each division from II-VI. That might be enough extra teams to reduce the complaints of the lower divisions being watered down. The complaints about enrollment disparity in DI will always exist, but the disparity is reduced a little by cutting it down to the top 64 instead of 72. The other 5 divisions would have about the same number of teams that they had under the old 6-division format.
That makes the most sense of any post in this thread
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  #53  
Old 11-27-17, 05:53 PM
StateChampion2012 StateChampion2012 is offline
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Originally Posted by queencitybuckeye View Post
You really don't understand that open enrollment has little or nothing to do with sports?
Absolutely nothing to do with sports in MAC land. If you saw a picture of Coldwater's School district, you'll See why we are gaining more students then losing due to O/E. Idk what part of the state he's talking about.
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  #54  
Old 11-27-17, 06:13 PM
USA70PP USA70PP is offline
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Earlier talk about "playing up". From the years I spent at the Naval Post Graduate school in Monterey, I know that Palma, from Salinas and De LaSalle from the bay area always played up at play-off time. Schools also had the option of "playing down". Several did. As I recall one year Seaside and Marina both played down.
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  #55  
Old 11-27-17, 06:34 PM
Heavy Hitter 1 Heavy Hitter 1 is online now
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Originally Posted by big medicine View Post
So how would that flesh out in real numbers of students and schools per division ?
Div - # students - # School
I------ 520-1532-----101
II----- 310-519------152
III---- 201-309------155
IV---- 131-200-------157
V--- --34-130--------152

I am sure it is off a little but I tried to get it cloase
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  #56  
Old 11-27-17, 06:43 PM
Jaws31 Jaws31 is offline
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Originally Posted by bulldog1974 View Post
Yes, open enrollment recruiting by a neighboring school district. Said district has almost 500 open enrolled kids, majority is from two neighboring districts. Basis is sports, not academics.
All 500 are on athletic teams huh? That would mean like 300 on the football team, about 50 on both basketball teams, probably 200 on the track teams in the spring.....seems legit
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  #57  
Old 11-27-17, 07:01 PM
big medicine big medicine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy Hitter 1 View Post
Div - # students - # School
I------ 520-1532-----101
II----- 310-519------152
III---- 201-309------155
IV---- 131-200-------157
V--- --34-130--------152

I am sure it is off a little but I tried to get it cloase


I could live with this.
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  #58  
Old 11-27-17, 07:06 PM
Hammerdrill Hammerdrill is offline
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Being the best team out of 108 I guess isn't much of an accomplishment? But by going to 6, where D1 would stay the same, then they can be the best out of 129, that is a much bigger accomplishment.
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  #59  
Old 11-27-17, 07:14 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by Hammerdrill View Post
Being the best team out of 108 I guess isn't much of an accomplishment? But by going to 6, where D1 would stay the same, then they can be the best out of 129, that is a much bigger accomplishment.
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  #60  
Old 11-27-17, 07:26 PM
queencitybuckeye queencitybuckeye is offline
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Have to love people who rely on an outlier or two and believe it makes a point.
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