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View Poll Results: Who wins?
Kirtland by 17+ 2 2.33%
Kirtland by 8-16 5 5.81%
Kirtland by 1-7 19 22.09%
Marion Local by 1-7 19 22.09%
Marion Local by 8-16 31 36.05%
Marion Local by 17+ 10 11.63%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

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  #121  
Old 11-28-17, 10:41 AM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirtland Fan View Post
Please. Let's not get carried away here. Kirtland is a two TD + dog in this one, depending upon which projecting program you use.

This will hopefully be a very good and close game.
Fact is Kirtland had 10 players ( almost half their starters) make All -State honors. Kirtland is the clear favorite, the Hornets have much more talent than ML that is pretty obvious by the ALL-State voting.
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  #122  
Old 11-28-17, 10:47 AM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Originally Posted by Kirtland Fan View Post
I've seen all of Kirtland's games this season, but none of their games caused my jaw to hit the table like it did when I watched the playoff match up between ML and Coldwater. It's not like ML beat up on some "Little Sisters of the Poor" type team. They totally dominated a quality Otten Coldwater team! My first reaction was, man, is Kirtland going to be in trouble if they make it back to state!!
Only because of Otten did Coldwater make it as far they did. The Cavs talent wise may have been ahead of Parkway and New Bremen in the MAC, that's it. Plus Coldwater was with out its best player vs ML.
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  #123  
Old 11-28-17, 10:49 AM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Originally Posted by wrestling125 View Post
I wish Kirtland would find a way to make their schedule more difficult each season. It seems that they always play a cupcake schedule and go undefeated. I feel that they would set themselves up better in the postseason if they scheduled to play some better teams. Not much is gained by beating every team 50-0. I'm not saying they should schedule to play large schools like Mentor or Ignatius where they would be risking injury. I just believe it would be to their benefit to toughen up their competition even if i meant risking a feel losing each year.
With as much talent as Kirtland has they should be in the same conference with Mentor.
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  #124  
Old 11-28-17, 11:02 AM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Originally Posted by CJK84 View Post
Against Rootstown, Kirtland's #4 was a good, elusive running back - hard to get a good hit on him. Picked his holes well to make defenders miss while continuing north and south.

And #62 was a good guard and even better d tackle - high motor guy - who blew up plays in the backfield.

I think Marion can get pressure on Hornet qb in passing situations - hopefully get some sacks or INT's. The challenge for the Flyers will be to slow down the K rushing attack enough to force passing downs or they won't get a chance to win such downs.
No way does ML get pressure on Kirtland's QB if the Hornets ever decide to throw the football not with two 1st team and one 3rd team All-State lineman. When watching video of Kirtland I had to do a double take, at first I thought I was watching video of Ohio State as huge as the Hornets O-Line is. Kirtland basically has 4 John Dirksen's on their O-Line, the Flyers stand very little chance in this game.
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  #125  
Old 11-28-17, 11:06 AM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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When another team ( Kirtland) is bigger and faster than the other team ( Marion Local ), their is not much the smaller slower team can do. This is what happened to Coldwater vs. ML and this is what Kirtland will unfortunately do to ML just line up and dominate the LOS.
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  #126  
Old 11-28-17, 11:14 AM
HornetFanatic HornetFanatic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
When another team ( Kirtland) is bigger and faster than the other team ( Marion Local ), their is not much the smaller slower team can do. This is what happened to Coldwater vs. ML and this is what Kirtland will unfortunately do to ML just line up and dominate the LOS.


You should change your name to “stir the pot”


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  #127  
Old 11-28-17, 11:17 AM
Msfootball Msfootball is offline
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I didn't see Kirtland's games against Mogadore and Cuyahoga. If what you are saying is correct, Cuyahoga should handle Minster no problem and Mogadore would lay it on Marion Local as well. Just basing that on those two teams hanging with Kirtland.
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  #128  
Old 11-28-17, 11:17 AM
thickthinbigred thickthinbigred is offline
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East side vs West side . Good luck Kirtland .
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  #129  
Old 11-28-17, 11:17 AM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Originally Posted by HornetFanatic View Post
You should change your name to “stir the pot”


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Just posting facts, the bigger, faster team ( in this case Kirtland ) usually wins and wins big.
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  #130  
Old 11-28-17, 11:24 AM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Originally Posted by Msfootball View Post
I didn't see Kirtland's games against Mogadore and Cuyahoga. If what you are saying is correct, Cuyahoga should handle Minster no problem and Mogadore would lay it on Marion Local as well. Just basing that on those two teams hanging with Kirtland.
I think CH will beat Minster, and if Mogadore is as big and fast as Kirtland yes they would be the favorite over ML.
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  #131  
Old 11-28-17, 11:34 AM
Msfootball Msfootball is offline
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I'll agree Cuyahoga should beat Minster if they are as good as the team that played MSML in the finals last year. Just looking at their scores this year, Cuyahoga appears to have taken a step back on defense. I'll admit my view of Mogadore is a bit skewed due to how poorly they have done in the past against MAC teams. I was expecting Kirtland to win that game like 28 or 35 to 7. Haven't seen Mogadore this year so my bias is showing I guess
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  #132  
Old 11-28-17, 11:46 AM
jmog jmog is offline
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Originally Posted by Msfootball View Post
I'll agree Cuyahoga should beat Minster if they are as good as the team that played MSML in the finals last year. Just looking at their scores this year, Cuyahoga appears to have taken a step back on defense. I'll admit my view of Mogadore is a bit skewed due to how poorly they have done in the past against MAC teams. I was expecting Kirtland to win that game like 28 or 35 to 7. Haven't seen Mogadore this year so my bias is showing I guess
To be honest this year's Mogadore team was REALLY good on defense (state title game level defense) but their offense was mediocre at best.

Their coaches found a real weakness in Kirtland's defense and exploited it on offense. The kids stepped up and the game plan worked.

Every Kirtland fan would agree that while Kirtland obviously deserved to win, the outcome was somewhat "luck" at the end. Mogadore down 6 (with a great kicker that doesn't miss XPs) and caught a pass inside Kirtland's 3 yard line, only to fumble the ball near the sideline while trying to stretch for the goal line.

There was somewhere around 40 seconds left in the game at the time of the play.

As a Mogadore fan I truly (if I had to admit it) didn't think Mogadore was going to keep it within 2 scores of Kirtland. I thought our defense would keep it close into the 2nd half but our offense wouldn't be able to keep up. I was glad I was wrong.

I have no idea what that means for this game, but I can tell you that this Mogadore team definitely wasn't near as good as say 2002 or 1996 when they won it all.

Rootstown was a better team this year than Mogadore, but I think they didn't do as well against Kirtland because they tried to run into a wall repeatedly. For almost the whole first half Mogadore abandoned their big running game and threw all over Kirtland. That opened up some running lanes later against Kirtland's great run defense.

Rootstown tried to keep running the horse that brought them there (their all state RB) and never really used the passing game on Kirtland to open up those lanes.

I think Rootstown went in with the wrong gameplan while Mogadore had the perfect gameplan for Kirtland, just came up short on the last play.

Oh, and Mogadore will forever be the underdog against a MAC team until they get another win. (Reminder, we did beat St. Henry in our first ever game against the MAC in the 1996 state title game).
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  #133  
Old 11-28-17, 11:48 AM
CJK84 CJK84 is offline
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I don't care greatly about all-whatever honors, but it does seem like ML, and perhaps the MAC in general, gets passed over at the state level.

In 2007, ML had a fantastic d, particularly at the lb positions. In their five playoff games, the D-V Flyers held three 1st team all-state running backs (I believe they were all first teamers) to under 100 yards combined.

Their most impressive work was in the state final against a more highly heralded group from powerful Ursuline, whose tailback, a junior, was an OSU prospect at the time.

He gained 12 yards on 11 carries.

I forget the exact situation, but I'm certain that Marion did not have a single defensive player named to 1st team all-Ohio that season. And maybe they were blanked on the 2nd and 3rd teams also - not sure.

I realize it's difficult to feel sorry for Marion in anything related to football, but that didn't seem right.

Last edited by CJK84; 11-28-17 at 12:08 PM.
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  #134  
Old 11-28-17, 11:56 AM
Msfootball Msfootball is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJK84 View Post
I don't care greatly about all-whatever honors, but it does seem like ML, and perhaps the MAC in general, get passed over at the state level.

In 2007, ML had a fantastic d, particularly at the lb positions. In their five playoff games, the D-V Flyers held three 1st team all-state running backs (I believe that's correct) to under 100 yards combined.

Their most impressive work was in the state final against a more highly heralded group from powerful Ursuline, whose tailback, a junior, was an OSU prospect at the time.

He gained 12 yards on 11 carries.

I forget the exact situation, but I'm sure that Marion did not have a single defensive player named to 1st team all-Ohio that season. And maybe they were blanked on the 2nd and 3rd teams also - not sure.

I realize it's difficult to feel sorry for Marion in anything related to football, but that didn't seem right.
I remember after the game the Ursuline coach was asked what surprised him. He said something like MSML players were much taller in person than they expected. 2007 was our best run defense ever. Don't think that is debatable.
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  #135  
Old 11-28-17, 12:10 PM
Msfootball Msfootball is offline
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Originally Posted by jmog View Post
To be honest this year's Mogadore team was REALLY good on defense (state title game level defense) but their offense was mediocre at best.

Their coaches found a real weakness in Kirtland's defense and exploited it on offense. The kids stepped up and the game plan worked.

Every Kirtland fan would agree that while Kirtland obviously deserved to win, the outcome was somewhat "luck" at the end. Mogadore down 6 (with a great kicker that doesn't miss XPs) and caught a pass inside Kirtland's 3 yard line, only to fumble the ball near the sideline while trying to stretch for the goal line.

There was somewhere around 40 seconds left in the game at the time of the play.

As a Mogadore fan I truly (if I had to admit it) didn't think Mogadore was going to keep it within 2 scores of Kirtland. I thought our defense would keep it close into the 2nd half but our offense wouldn't be able to keep up. I was glad I was wrong.

I have no idea what that means for this game, but I can tell you that this Mogadore team definitely wasn't near as good as say 2002 or 1996 when they won it all.

Rootstown was a better team this year than Mogadore, but I think they didn't do as well against Kirtland because they tried to run into a wall repeatedly. For almost the whole first half Mogadore abandoned their big running game and threw all over Kirtland. That opened up some running lanes later against Kirtland's great run defense.

Rootstown tried to keep running the horse that brought them there (their all state RB) and never really used the passing game on Kirtland to open up those lanes.

I think Rootstown went in with the wrong gameplan while Mogadore had the perfect gameplan for Kirtland, just came up short on the last play.

Oh, and Mogadore will forever be the underdog against a MAC team until they get another win. (Reminder, we did beat St. Henry in our first ever game against the MAC in the 1996 state title game).
That game against St. Henry was an all-time classic.
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  #136  
Old 11-28-17, 01:22 PM
jmog jmog is offline
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Originally Posted by Msfootball View Post
That game against St. Henry was an all-time classic.
Having played in that game, I tend to agree.

I truly wish we had a chance against SH in 1995, as we were a better team my junior year in '95 than we were in '96.

The problem was in the regional finals we had to play in a freaking blizzard (video of the game you can not see the players a lot of the time) and lost in a sloppy game by 2. To this day I have never seen so much snow as there was in Bedford that day. They plowed the turf field 30 min before the game, it was clear.

It snowed 6 inches in those 30 minutes and the field from that point on was just covered. They tried to keep the goal lines clear and important ones like the 20 and 40. When the game was going on at one end of the field men were running with shovels clearing lines on the other end. This went on the whole game.

I know MSML has some experience with that when they lost to HN back in 2002 in a rain/mud field. Mogadore went on to beat HN soundly that year, I truly believe that was because they didn't have that "oh no, its the MAC" mentality going into the game, just like we didn't have that thought in 1996 because we had never faced the MAC.
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  #137  
Old 11-28-17, 01:33 PM
Msfootball Msfootball is offline
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Originally Posted by jmog View Post
Having played in that game, I tend to agree.

I truly wish we had a chance against SH in 1995, as we were a better team my junior year in '95 than we were in '96.

The problem was in the regional finals we had to play in a freaking blizzard (video of the game you can not see the players a lot of the time) and lost in a sloppy game by 2. To this day I have never seen so much snow as there was in Bedford that day. They plowed the turf field 30 min before the game, it was clear.

It snowed 6 inches in those 30 minutes and the field from that point on was just covered. They tried to keep the goal lines clear and important ones like the 20 and 40. When the game was going on at one end of the field men were running with shovels clearing lines on the other end. This went on the whole game.

I know MSML has some experience with that when they lost to HN back in 2002 in a rain/mud field. Mogadore went on to beat HN soundly that year, I truly believe that was because they didn't have that "oh no, its the MAC" mentality going into the game, just like we didn't have that thought in 1996 because we had never faced the MAC.
I was at that Hardin Northern-MSML game in Piqua 2002. Cold pouring down rain and windy. About as cold as it gets without the rain being ice. MSML was going for the three-peat. Would have been 3rd game in a row against Mogadore. Who knows what would have happened, but Mogadore got it done ultimately.
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  #138  
Old 11-28-17, 01:39 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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As Tim Goodwin is fond of saying football is a game of match-ups. Flyers defensively match up well vs. spread teams : Coldwater, CJ . Team that gave ML the most trouble offensively was Versailles a run first team. I think for ML to win this game they are going to have to out score Kirtland, and to do this the QB and receivers are going to have to play at a very high level.
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  #139  
Old 11-28-17, 01:45 PM
jmog jmog is offline
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Originally Posted by Msfootball View Post
I was at that Hardin Northern-MSML game in Piqua 2002. Cold pouring down rain and windy. About as cold as it gets without the rain being ice. MSML was going for the three-peat. Would have been 3rd game in a row against Mogadore. Who knows what would have happened, but Mogadore got it done ultimately.
I can tell you what would have happened.

Let's assume for a minute that HN was better than MSML that year.

Mogadore beat HN soundly, with pretty much the exact same team as 2001 (2001 team was young, hardly any senior starters).

So the A>B and B>C therefore A>C logic would stand and Mogadore would have beat MSML right?

No, there is a stigma, whether people want to admit it or not, now in Mogadore and the MAC, and it is mostly from the 2000 game.

Mogadore's players were hell bent on ending Delphos' run going into the 2000 playoffs. They had a great team and 'knew' they would be in the finals against DSJ.

Right or wrong, when MSML 'upset' DSJ to get to the finals the air was let out of the sails for Mogadore a little and then they got hit by the buzz saw that was 2000 MSML to the tune of what, 62-7? or some crap like that.

2001 comes around and the Mogadore team is better than 2000. The coaching staff tries some VERY unorthodox Mogadore things (fake punt from their own side of the field, going for it on 4th downs in the 1st half, etc) add in a couple turnovers and the snow ball just ran down hill again.

I don't think Mogadore beats MSML in 2000 or 2001, but both games should have been MUCH closer, 2001 especially. If you put the same players and the same coach but change the name to Mechanicsburg or something, the game is a dog fight. MSML, and now the MAC, has a significant mental advantage over Mogadore until some Mogadore team gets that next win.

Look at 2002, in the regular season Mogadore lost to DSJ 41-12. DSJ that year lost to SH, MSML, and CW (all relatively close games). Mogadore wins the state championship and the MAC gets none that year (DSJ, CW, and MSML lost in the playoffs before the finals).
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  #140  
Old 11-28-17, 01:46 PM
jmog jmog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
As Tim Goodwin is fond of saying football is a game of match-ups. Flyers defensively match up well vs. spread teams : Coldwater, CJ . Team that gave ML the most trouble offensively was Versailles a run first team. I think for ML to win this game they are going to have to out score Kirtland, and to do this the QB and receivers are going to have to play at a very high level.
Kirtland defense is very susceptible to the pass, as Mogadore found out.
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  #141  
Old 11-28-17, 01:54 PM
Msfootball Msfootball is offline
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l'll agree a lot hinges probably on how well Kirtland handles the Flyers passing game. Could be the best game this weekend.

P.s. Jmog you may have something about the psychological factor. I also think the Flyers QB would have passed well against Moggy and HN that year on a dry field. Weather is part of the game though
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  #142  
Old 11-28-17, 02:19 PM
jmog jmog is offline
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Originally Posted by Msfootball View Post

P.s. Jmog you may have something about the psychological factor. I also think the Flyers QB would have passed well against Moggy and HN that year on a dry field. Weather is part of the game though
Especially this late in the year.
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  #143  
Old 11-28-17, 03:12 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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[QUOTE=Msfootball;6927533]l'll agree a lot hinges probably on how well Kirtland handles the Flyers passing game. Could be the best game this weekend.

Very good QB play can lead a team to a victory over a vastly superior talented team or at least I hope so.
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  #144  
Old 11-28-17, 03:41 PM
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The one thing which will help Marion this year, is they did get to see a smaller version of Kirtland run this offense when they played Spencerville this year. This gives the defense a better chance to get used to the double tight, wing set, with the full house backfield, they will see all day against Kirtland. Since this is typically not the type of offense Marion will see all year. As I stated though, Spencerville's line and running backs were not nearly as big or as skilled as Kirtland's.
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  #145  
Old 11-28-17, 08:54 PM
CJK84 CJK84 is offline
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I'm not sure the bad weather played a big factor in HN's 26-16 victory over ML in 2002.

Sure, it played a part and likely affected Marion more than HN, but Marion was outhit - at least somewhat. Snow - rb and lb for HN - was really tough for the polar bears on both sides of the ball. And HN appeared to play a perfect game - they deserved the win.

Frustratingly for Flyer fans, in the state final vs Moggy I believe HN had 5 turnovers - in the first half!

Pete Bruno was an outstanding coach. He worked miracles with a small student population from which to field a football team (HN was even quite a bit smaller than many of the other D-VI teams - like ML).

Last edited by CJK84; 11-29-17 at 11:41 AM.
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  #146  
Old 11-28-17, 10:02 PM
jmog jmog is offline
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Originally Posted by CJK84 View Post
I'm not sure the bad weather played a big factor in HN's 26-16 victory over ML in 2002.

Sure, it played a part and likely affected Marion more than HN, but Marion was outhit - at least somewhat. Snow - rb and lb for HN - was really tough for the polar bears on both sides of the ball. And HN appeared to play a perfect game - they deserved the win.

Frustratingly for Flyer fans, in the state final vs Moggy I believe HN had 5 turnovers - in the first half!

Pete Bruno was an outstanding coach. He worked miracles with a small student population from which to field a football team ( HN was even quite a bit smaller than many of the other D-VI teams - like ML).
To be fair, those 5 TOs were forced by hard hits, pressuring the QB on passes, and DBs making plays on the ball. It’s not like HN was just running down field and dropping the ball. Mogadore out played HN in all 3 phases.
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  #147  
Old 11-29-17, 11:07 AM
fridayguru fridayguru is offline
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ML 21
Kirtland 10
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  #148  
Old 11-29-17, 11:20 AM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by CJK84 View Post
I don't care greatly about all-whatever honors, but it does seem like ML, and perhaps the MAC in general, gets passed over at the state level.

In 2007, ML had a fantastic d, particularly at the lb positions. In their five playoff games, the D-V Flyers held three 1st team all-state running backs (I believe they were all first teamers) to under 100 yards combined.

Their most impressive work was in the state final against a more highly heralded group from powerful Ursuline, whose tailback, a junior, was an OSU prospect at the time.

He gained 12 yards on 11 carries.

I forget the exact situation, but I'm certain that Marion did not have a single defensive player named to 1st team all-Ohio that season. And maybe they were blanked on the 2nd and 3rd teams also - not sure.

I realize it's difficult to feel sorry for Marion in anything related to football, but that didn't seem right.
it is just not Marion...
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  #149  
Old 11-29-17, 12:55 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Kirtland wins this game easily. Score difference may not be
Wide but they will be in control.

They almost own the MAC. Dominated coldwater once, loss by 1 a second game. Should have beat Minster but the cats got lucky.
Beat the flyers........


I see Kirtland winning by 2 scores.


Initially thought about going....them realized they are in NEO this year...too farm to go
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  #150  
Old 11-29-17, 01:49 PM
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Marion simply doesn't have the talent of the players in the NE, that is were you find the All State players every year.
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