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View Poll Results: Who wins?
Kirtland by 17+ 2 2.33%
Kirtland by 8-16 5 5.81%
Kirtland by 1-7 19 22.09%
Marion Local by 1-7 19 22.09%
Marion Local by 8-16 31 36.05%
Marion Local by 17+ 10 11.63%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

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  #91  
Old 11-27-17, 12:54 PM
CJK84 CJK84 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigkat View Post
maybe it was the fans that MIGHT have been over confident.....
kat - imagine yourself as a senior on ML's 2015 team

a. you find it hard to recall the last time ML lost to a non-MAC team in the playoffs because you were in 5th grade when it happened (7 years ago!)

b. as an 8th grader you saw ML go 5-0 in the playoffs and crush Buckeye Central in the final

c. as a frosh you saw/helped ML go 5-0 in the playoffs despite having only 4 seniors who played significantly

d. as a soph you saw/helped ML go 5-0 in the playoffs and crush Trimble in the final - you also saw Kirtland lose to CW, a team ML had shut out 20-0

e. as a junior you helped ML go 5-0 in the playoffs, crushing the finals opponent (NSP?) - you also saw Kirtland lose to Minster, a team ML had beaten fairly decisively

f. as a senior you have helped ML go 4-0 in playoffs and extend their playoff streak to 24-0

g. your coach is telling you that you mustn't look past Kirtland, but you've heard that 19 times before and thus you don't quite take it as seriously as you should

conclusion: In 2015, Marion looked past Kirtland a bit - it's only natural that a hs player, and perhaps even a coach, would do this given the enormous success ML had experienced at that point.

And that's not a dig on Kirtland at all - the Hornets proved in the second half of that title game that they could push anyone around .

Last edited by CJK84; 11-27-17 at 02:03 PM.
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  #92  
Old 11-27-17, 01:09 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Hopefully ML's bus breaks down on its way to Canton and they forfeit the game. Kirtland had an unbelievable 10 players make 1st, 2nd, or 3rd team All- State including two 1st team and one 3rd team O-Lineman. Plus 2 rb's. that made 2nd team All-State. This has to be a record for the number of players from the same team making All-State ( almost half of Kirtland's starters were All-State ), the Flyers are virtually playing an All-Star Team. This will take a miracle of Biblical proportions for the extremely undermanned Flyers to win this game. Forget about winning the game ML will be lucky if they don't have a running clock put on them by half time.
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  #93  
Old 11-27-17, 01:25 PM
ESPN 990 ESPN 990 is offline
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Tiger, Goodwin on air today

2:20 Tiger LaVerde of Kirtland

2:40 Tim Goodwin of Marion Local

www.espn990.com
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  #94  
Old 11-27-17, 01:30 PM
Today Today is offline
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Well, hopefully all of the Honors Kirtland received will prevent the Flyers from looking past them this year (wouldn't happen) and they finish the job.

Good Luck Flyers
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  #95  
Old 11-27-17, 01:33 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ESPN 990 View Post
2:20 Tiger LaVerde of Kirtland

2:40 Tim Goodwin of Marion Local

www.espn990.com
Thanks for the tip.
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  #96  
Old 11-27-17, 01:34 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJK84 View Post
kat - imagine yourself as a senior on ML's 2015 team

a. you find it hard to recall the last time ML lost to a non-MAC team in the playoffs because you were in 5th grade when it happened (7 years ago!)

b. as an 8th grader you saw ML go 5-0 in the playoffs and crush Buckeye Central in the final

c. as a frosh you saw/helped ML go 5-0 in the playoffs despite having only 4 seniors who played significantly

d. as a soph you saw/helped ML go 5-0 in the playoffs and crush Trimble in the final - you also saw Kirtland lose to CW, a team ML had shut out 20-0

e. as a junior you helped ML go 5-0 in the playoffs, crushing the finals opponent (NSP?) - you also saw Kirtland lose to Minster, a team ML had beaten fairly decisively

f. as a senior you have helped ML go 4-0 in playoffs and extend their playoff streak to 24-0

g. your coach is telling you that you mustn't look past Kirtland, but you've heard that 19 times before and thus you don't quite take it as seriously as you should

conclusion: In 2015, Marion looked past Kirtland a bit - it's only natural that a hs player, and perhaps even a coach, would do this given the enormous success ML had experienced at that point.

And that's not a dig on Kirtland at all - the Hornets proved in the second half of that title game that they could push around anyone.
Not buying what you are selling.
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  #97  
Old 11-27-17, 01:36 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ESPN 990 View Post
2:20 Tiger LaVerde of Kirtland

2:40 Tim Goodwin of Marion Local

www.espn990.com
are Cuyuhoga and Minsters coach on the radio?
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  #98  
Old 11-27-17, 01:38 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
Hopefully ML's bus breaks down on its way to Canton and they forfeit the game. Kirtland had an unbelievable 10 players make 1st, 2nd, or 3rd team All- State including two 1st team and one 3rd team O-Lineman. Plus 2 rb's. that made 2nd team All-State. This has to be a record for the number of players from the same team making All-State ( almost half of Kirtland's starters were All-State ), the Flyers are virtually playing an All-Star Team. This will take a miracle of Biblical proportions for the extremely undermanned Flyers to win this game. Forget about winning the game ML will be lucky if they don't have a running clock put on them by half time.
the way they PICK ALL State teams for football is a JOKE.....
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  #99  
Old 11-27-17, 01:56 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigkat View Post
the way they PICK ALL State teams for football is a JOKE.....
Usually I would agree with that. However I have seen video of some of Kirtland's football games and their players are well deserving of any honors they received.
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  #100  
Old 11-27-17, 01:57 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Today View Post
Well, hopefully all of the Honors Kirtland received will prevent the Flyers from looking past them this year (wouldn't happen) and they finish the job.

Good Luck Flyers
Just hope not to many of ML's players get injured, will need them for b-ball season.
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  #101  
Old 11-27-17, 02:06 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
Usually I would agree with that. However I have seen video of some of Kirtland's football games and their players are well deserving of any honors they received.
check out the Div 7 1st ,2nd and 3rd teams...Loramie and Sidney Lehman had a BUNCH of players picked

who were the Marion Kids picked....was Tangeman?
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  #102  
Old 11-27-17, 02:08 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigkat View Post
check out the Div 7 1st ,2nd and 3rd teams...Loramie and Sidney Lehman had a BUNCH of players picked

who were the Marion Kids picked....was Tangeman?
Dirksen, Rethman, and Huelsman.
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  #103  
Old 11-27-17, 04:56 PM
Kirtland Fan Kirtland Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkgriswold View Post
That kid was just a good old fashioned football player. One of my all time favorite championship game players.
He was(is) a very humble and good guy. I recall reading an article about when he accepted the scholarship offer from Air Force, and how overwhelmed that he was to receive a scholarship that he never expected to receive two years earlier.
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  #104  
Old 11-27-17, 05:00 PM
Kirtland Fan Kirtland Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
Hopefully ML's bus breaks down on its way to Canton and they forfeit the game. Kirtland had an unbelievable 10 players make 1st, 2nd, or 3rd team All- State including two 1st team and one 3rd team O-Lineman. Plus 2 rb's. that made 2nd team All-State. This has to be a record for the number of players from the same team making All-State ( almost half of Kirtland's starters were All-State ), the Flyers are virtually playing an All-Star Team. This will take a miracle of Biblical proportions for the extremely undermanned Flyers to win this game. Forget about winning the game ML will be lucky if they don't have a running clock put on them by half time.
Please. Let's not get carried away here. Kirtland is a two TD + dog in this one, depending upon which projecting program you use.

This will hopefully be a very good and close game.
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  #105  
Old 11-27-17, 05:05 PM
Kirtland Fan Kirtland Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
Usually I would agree with that. However I have seen video of some of Kirtland's football games and their players are well deserving of any honors they received.
I've seen all of Kirtland's games this season, but none of their games caused my jaw to hit the table like it did when I watched the playoff match up between ML and Coldwater. It's not like ML beat up on some "Little Sisters of the Poor" type team. They totally dominated a quality Otten Coldwater team! My first reaction was, man, is Kirtland going to be in trouble if they make it back to state!!
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  #106  
Old 11-27-17, 05:28 PM
StateChampion2012 StateChampion2012 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirtland Fan View Post
Young? Not really, unless you consider juniors as "young." Kirtland's two runners are juniors. QB is a senior. 90% of Kirtland's starters are juniors and seniors, with a nice stable of freshmen and sophomores seeing some playing time this year, and being able to step in next year.
Pretty good Mix.
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  #107  
Old 11-27-17, 05:38 PM
StateChampion2012 StateChampion2012 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirtland Fan View Post
I've seen all of Kirtland's games this season, but none of their games caused my jaw to hit the table like it did when I watched the playoff match up between ML and Coldwater. It's not like ML beat up on some "Little Sisters of the Poor" type team. They totally dominated a quality Otten Coldwater team! My first reaction was, man, is Kirtland going to be in trouble if they make it back to state!!
If you paid attention to Coldwater and the MAC all season, you'd notice that Marion seemed to get better Week to Week and Coldwater seemed to stay the same or get worse. The only weeks we seemed to get better was when we played Parkway (surprise surprise) and Bethel.
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  #108  
Old 11-27-17, 07:24 PM
wrestling125 wrestling125 is offline
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I wish Kirtland would find a way to make their schedule more difficult each season. It seems that they always play a cupcake schedule and go undefeated. I feel that they would set themselves up better in the postseason if they scheduled to play some better teams. Not much is gained by beating every team 50-0. I'm not saying they should schedule to play large schools like Mentor or Ignatius where they would be risking injury. I just believe it would be to their benefit to toughen up their competition even if i meant risking a feel losing each year.
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  #109  
Old 11-27-17, 08:00 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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Kirtland has seven games locked in by conference structure. The only thing you could say is they should play in the upper CVC instead of the lower CVC, but I don't blame them for staying in the lower CVC given enrollment.

In the non-league, they played Chagrin Falls, Columbia, and VASJ. Chagrin and Columbia were playoff teams multiple times prior to this past year, VASJ has been in-and-out of playoff contention.
http://www.joeeitel.com/hsfoot/teams...=812&year=2017
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  #110  
Old 11-27-17, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bucksman View Post
Kirtland has seven games locked in by conference structure. The only thing you could say is they should play in the upper CVC instead of the lower CVC, but I don't blame them for staying in the lower CVC given enrollment.

In the non-league, they played Chagrin Falls, Columbia, and VASJ. Chagrin and Columbia were playoff teams multiple times prior to this past year, VASJ has been in-and-out of playoff contention.
http://www.joeeitel.com/hsfoot/teams...=812&year=2017
I think it’s up to the CVC to organize divisions for football as they do for other sports. Primarily based on enrollment, but adjusting for competitive balance as necessary. Fairport plays in the Chagrin division for baseball, but has no business playing Kirtland in football. With that said, we understand there are long-term benefits for program building for Kirtland playing in the Valley Division. I’ve seen reports of Berkshire, Cardinal, and Harvey in discussions with other schools for alternative league options. Maybe because the CVC isn’t as flexible for football as other sports? If schools end up leaving, we could see Kirtland’s schedule beef up with consolidating divisions.
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  #111  
Old 11-27-17, 08:51 PM
CJK84 CJK84 is offline
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Against Rootstown, Kirtland's #4 was a good, elusive running back - hard to get a good hit on him. Picked his holes well to make defenders miss while continuing north and south.

And #62 was a good guard and even better d tackle - high motor guy - who blew up plays in the backfield.

I think Marion can get pressure on Hornet qb in passing situations - hopefully get some sacks or INT's. The challenge for the Flyers will be to slow down the K rushing attack enough to force passing downs or they won't get a chance to win such downs.
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  #112  
Old 11-27-17, 08:51 PM
kirt88 kirt88 is offline
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Other teams, including the bigger side of the CVC, don’t want to play Kirtland. (Or any other powerhouse small school). They are in a lose-lose situation. If the bigger team wins, they don’t get many computer points. If they lose, it’s embarrassing for them to lose to a small school. Every two years the athletic directors in the CVC vote on realignment. (Move up or move down). No big team would vote for Kirtland to move up. Kirtland tries to do cross over games, even play “home and Home” (chagrin falls) verse playing a home and away series. No one wants to play Kirtland. West g backed out of a contract one week before the season began.

Short of playing mentor or st. Ed’s (which Kirtlands jv has played the past few years) I wish they could get some regular season games verse Mogadore, West g, or wickliffe.

Go Hornets!!!
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  #113  
Old 11-27-17, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirt88 View Post
Other teams, including the bigger side of the CVC, donít want to play Kirtland. (Or any other powerhouse small school). They are in a lose-lose situation. If the bigger team wins, they donít get many computer points. If they lose, itís embarrassing for them to lose to a small school. Every two years the athletic directors in the CVC vote on realignment. (Move up or move down). No big team would vote for Kirtland to move up. Kirtland tries to do cross over games, even play ďhome and HomeĒ (chagrin falls) verse playing a home and away series. No one wants to play Kirtland. West g backed out of a contract one week before the season began.

Short of playing mentor or st. Edís (which Kirtlands jv has played the past few years) I wish they could get some regular season games verse Mogadore, West g, or wickliffe.

Go Hornets!!!
I donít want to get off topic. But, Iíll say something isnít right. Alignment for football seems to be organized to benefit a few schools. Iím wondering if your points are valid only for a few of those favored schools. The largest schools in the Chagrin division are Harvey and Geneva, both D3. Geneva currently has Mogadore on their schedule, so they obviously didnít have an issue playing a traditional-rich small school program.
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  #114  
Old 11-27-17, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by wrestling125 View Post
I wish Kirtland would find a way to make their schedule more difficult each season. It seems that they always play a cupcake schedule and go undefeated. I feel that they would set themselves up better in the postseason if they scheduled to play some better teams. Not much is gained by beating every team 50-0. I'm not saying they should schedule to play large schools like Mentor or Ignatius where they would be risking injury. I just believe it would be to their benefit to toughen up their competition even if i meant risking a feel losing each year.


Not sure what good it would do Kirtland. Went to 5 straight state championships, losing 2 of the 5 by a total of 5 points. Donít sure how much better they could have been set up for the post season? I think a tougher schedule may have produced similar results. And there is some benefit to beating someone 50-0, if it means JV and Frosh are getting valuable PT at the varsity level. Donít get me wrong, as a fan, Iíd love to see a tougher schedule. It gets old having to wait 11, 12 or 13 weeks to see a competitive game, I just donít know how much value there is it.


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  #115  
Old 11-27-17, 09:58 PM
HornetFanatic HornetFanatic is offline
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Originally Posted by BlackandGold View Post
I donít want to get off topic. But, Iíll say something isnít right. Alignment for football seems to be organized to benefit a few schools. Iím wondering if your points are valid only for a few of those favored schools. The largest schools in the Chagrin division are Harvey and Geneva, both D3. Geneva currently has Mogadore on their schedule, so they obviously didnít have an issue playing a traditional-rich small school program.


Kirtland has had both Harvey & Geneva on their schedules in the past. In 2011 & 2012, Kirtland began the year with West Branch (D3), Harvey (D2) & Orange (D3). They had North (D2) in 2013-2014. 2003 they had Geneva (D2), Jefferson (D3), & Bay (D3). I thinks itís gotten much harder for them to find willing, bigger school opponents.


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  #116  
Old 11-27-17, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by HornetFanatic View Post
Kirtland has had both Harvey & Geneva on their schedules in the past. In 2011 & 2012, Kirtland began the year with West Branch (D3), Harvey (D2) & Orange (D3). They had North (D2) in 2013-2014. 2003 they had Geneva (D2), Jefferson (D3), & Bay (D3). I thinks it’s gotten much harder for them to find willing, bigger school opponents.


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Sounds like a good argument for Kirtland to bump up to the Chagrin Division. Harvey and Beachwood should drop to the Valley, at least until they can rebuild their football programs. Or, keep their programs where they are.
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  #117  
Old 11-27-17, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by kirt88 View Post
If the bigger team wins, they donít get many computer points.
If a bigger team beats a normal Kirtland team theyíll get plenty of computer points.
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  #118  
Old 11-27-17, 11:01 PM
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Man I would love to see Kirtland play Perry again like the old ESC days. Kirtland can definitely hang with any of CVC bigger schools. Perry would probably be the toughest challenge but West G a distant second. Geneva seems to slowly becoming better since Sorber took over. Harvey is a joke and has been for years just like Geneva. Wickliffe and Orange both made the playoffs as well this year so no reason the CVC can’t mix it up a bit. I agree with the poster above fairport has no business playing Kirtland in football.
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  #119  
Old 11-28-17, 10:22 AM
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I just wish they would shorten the season to 9 games and have 16 teams from each region make the playoffs. This would reduce the concern over accumulating computer points, and teams could simply focus on improving throughout the year. Over 50 percent of all the schools would still play a 10 game schedule, and you would still play 15 weeks to win the championship. Who knows you may end up with a 10 or 11 seed could be in the finals. Marion has made it as an 8 seed and narrowly lost the final game.
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  #120  
Old 11-28-17, 10:23 AM
Comets111 Comets111 is offline
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kirtland by 10
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