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View Poll Results: Who wins?
Kirtland by 17+ 2 2.33%
Kirtland by 8-16 5 5.81%
Kirtland by 1-7 19 22.09%
Marion Local by 1-7 19 22.09%
Marion Local by 8-16 31 36.05%
Marion Local by 17+ 10 11.63%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61  
Old 11-26-17, 02:03 PM
Kirtland Fan Kirtland Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigkat View Post
c'mon< think the Flyers looked past Kirtland in a game that was for the State Championship? Really? my memory isn't as good as it used to be, but didn't the Boys from Kirtland drive the ball 97 yards on a game winning drive....and wasn't it ALL runs in that drive...maybe that had something to do with it....
Yup, that was right after a turnover by ML near Kirtland's goal line.
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  #62  
Old 11-26-17, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Msfootball View Post
Exactly. It's laughable to think they looked past a team in a state finals game. Did they not watch Kirtland's two games against Coldwater. Marion Local was riddled with injuries that year which did seem to hurt their fluidity of play. It wasn't just the proverbial "injuries are part of the game". That was about the worst I've seen in a season. Fortunately they have stayed pretty healthy this year.
Injuries or not, ML was driving to go up by three TDs in the first half when they gave up their first of 3 or 4 turnovers. Others have posted that the first turnover (which was actually a late whistle by the officials after ML's QB's forward progress was stopped) turned the tide of that game. Second half was almost all Kirtland, and all running plays (maybe one or two passes, if that).
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  #63  
Old 11-26-17, 02:15 PM
Kirtland Fan Kirtland Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by Msfootball View Post
Exactly. It's laughable to think they looked past a team in a state finals game. Did they not watch Kirtland's two games against Coldwater. Marion Local was riddled with injuries that year which did seem to hurt their fluidity of play. It wasn't just the proverbial "injuries are part of the game". That was about the worst I've seen in a season. Fortunately they have stayed pretty healthy this year.
Kirtland has been banged up, and kids playing less than 100% in EVERY championship game appearance. In Kirtland's first championship against Coldwater in 2011, Kirtland's "man among boys" full back, Christian Hauber, severely sprained his ankle in the first half, and had to be helped off the field. They taped him up at halftime, and with a noticable limp, he came out and had a monster second half.

I don't want to minimize the affect that injuries of one or two key players have on small sized teams like D6 and D7, but everyone is banged up at this point of the season.

IMO, what killed ML in 2015 was a late whistle on one play (fumble by ML's QB after his forward progress was stopped), and turnovers, in general. The players that ML had on the field were every bit as good as Kirtland's players. Kirtland caught a couple of breaks, and took over momentum of the game in the second half, and ML simply couldn't stop Kirtland's running attack in the second half after stuffing the run in the first half.
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  #64  
Old 11-26-17, 02:52 PM
NewKirt NewKirt is offline
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Every year takes on it own identity to some extent. Looking forward to a great game.


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  #65  
Old 11-26-17, 03:15 PM
HornetFanatic HornetFanatic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirtland Fan View Post
Others on these threads have posted that the Kirtland line averages 250 based on OHSAA online stats. #39 (Adam Hess) was actually a converted offensive lineman (on the 2012-2014 teams), and no, Kirtland doesn't have a Hess-type of back this year (at least no where near Hess's production). Kirtland does have a couple 1,000 yard rushers, one inside guy and one outside guy, and the QB has been known to run by design as well.


I would agree that Kirtland does not have a back that runs the way Hess ran (style-wise), but you are way off on your production comment. I donít have 2012 stats on Hess, but he ran for 1,299 yards in 15 games during 2013 and 1,483 yards in 15 games in 2014. Currently, through 14 games Torok has 1,404 and Neibecker has 1,453.


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  #66  
Old 11-26-17, 05:30 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by Kirtland Fan View Post
Kirtland has been banged up, and kids playing less than 100% in EVERY championship game appearance. In Kirtland's first championship against Coldwater in 2011, Kirtland's "man among boys" full back, Christian Hauber, severely sprained his ankle in the first half, and had to be helped off the field. They taped him up at halftime, and with a noticable limp, he came out and had a monster second half.

I don't want to minimize the affect that injuries of one or two key players have on small sized teams like D6 and D7, but everyone is banged up at this point of the season.

IMO, what killed ML in 2015 was a late whistle on one play (fumble by ML's QB after his forward progress was stopped), and turnovers, in general. The players that ML had on the field were every bit as good as Kirtland's players. Kirtland caught a couple of breaks, and took over momentum of the game in the second half, and ML simply couldn't stop Kirtland's running attack in the second half after stuffing the run in the first half.

remember the Hauber kid.....he was a Champ Henson type running back??
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  #67  
Old 11-26-17, 05:35 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by Kirtland Fan View Post
Others on these threads have posted that the Kirtland line averages 250 based on OHSAA online stats. #39 (Adam Hess) was actually a converted offensive lineman (on the 2012-2014 teams), and no, Kirtland doesn't have a Hess-type of back this year (at least no where near Hess's production). Kirtland does have a couple 1,000 yard rushers, one inside guy and one outside guy, and the QB has been known to run by design as well.
gosh, I wish OHSAA would have put the div 7 and Div 6 games back to back on Sat.....would love to have stayed or went up early to watch both games.....talked to a bunch of Minster Fans.. they wished the same thing......and I think the Heights and Kirtland fans would think the same way.......two conferences battling it out for Championships...
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  #68  
Old 11-26-17, 06:58 PM
Kirtland Fan Kirtland Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by HornetFanatic View Post
I would agree that Kirtland does not have a back that runs the way Hess ran (style-wise), but you are way off on your production comment. I don’t have 2012 stats on Hess, but he ran for 1,299 yards in 15 games during 2013 and 1,483 yards in 15 games in 2014. Currently, through 14 games Torok has 1,404 and Neibecker has 1,453.


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Sorry for not being more precise. When I typed two 1,000 yard rushers, I meant "two 1,000+ yard rushers." Thanks for posting the exact figures. I knew that they were both over 1,000, I just didn't have the exact figures at my fingertips when I posted that message (and too lazy to look it up!). Clearly, I was mistaken with my "no where near close" reference as well. Apologies to Neibecker and Torok. For some reason, I thought that they were both in the 1,100 total yard ballpark. Both at 1,400 is very impressive.

You should also post Hess's backfield running mate and cousin's stats as well for a couple of those years (Kukura). I'm pretty sure that he matched or even exceeded Hess's production for a couple of years.

Last edited by Kirtland Fan; 11-26-17 at 07:10 PM.
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  #69  
Old 11-26-17, 07:03 PM
Kirtland Fan Kirtland Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by bigkat View Post
remember the Hauber kid.....he was a Champ Henson type running back??
Yes, exactly. Nice command of Buckeye history, BTW!

Here are a couple of pictures of Hauber (#34).





Hauber went to Air Force.
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  #70  
Old 11-26-17, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by bigkat View Post
gosh, I wish OHSAA would have put the div 7 and Div 6 games back to back on Sat.....would love to have stayed or went up early to watch both games.....talked to a bunch of Minster Fans.. they wished the same thing......and I think the Heights and Kirtland fans would think the same way.......two conferences battling it out for Championships...
I would have stayed for both too. However, there is something to be said of watching the other game in the comfort and convenience of my home, with instant replays, different camera angles, etc... that you don't get watching the game in person. Nice having two teams representing the MAC and CVC facing off against each other in separate divisions!
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  #71  
Old 11-26-17, 07:14 PM
HornetFanatic HornetFanatic is offline
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Originally Posted by Kirtland Fan View Post
Injuries or not, ML was driving to go up by three TDs in the first half when they gave up their first of 3 or 4 turnovers. Others have posted that the first turnover (which was actually a late whistle by the officials after ML's QB's forward progress was stopped) turned the tide of that game. Second half was almost all Kirtland, and all running plays (maybe one or two passes, if that).


You are correct, almost all running in the 2nd half.
3 pass attempts, all intended for Madden. 1 complete for a 2 point conversion, 1 incomplete and 1 incomplete with a pass interference penalty. So overall, pretty productive lol!


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  #72  
Old 11-26-17, 07:27 PM
HornetFanatic HornetFanatic is offline
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Originally Posted by Kirtland Fan View Post
Sorry for not being more precise. When I typed two 1,000 yard rushers, I meant "two 1,000+ yard rushers." Thanks for posting the exact figures. I knew that they were both over 1,000, I just didn't have the exact figures at my fingertips when I posted that message (and too lazy to look it up!). Clearly, I was mistaken with my "no where near close" reference as well. Apologies to Neibecker and Torok. For some reason, I thought that they were both in the 1,100 total yard ballpark. Both at 1,400 is very impressive.

You should also post Hess's backfield running mate and cousin's stats as well for a couple of those years (Kukura). I'm pretty sure that he matched or even exceeded Hess's production for a couple of years.

2017 Hornet rushing (thru 14)
Neibecker - 1469
Torok - 1403

Neibecker & Torok are Jr.ís

2015 Hornet rushing
Bates - 1937
Allchin - 1085

2014 Hornet rushing
Boyd - 1688
Hess - 1483
Skiljan - 1056

2013 Hornet rushing
Kukura - 1764
Hess - 1299

2012 Hornet rushing
Washington -1903

2012 Hornet rushing
Hauber - 1901

2011 Hornet rushing
Hauber - 1303

Fun to look back!




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  #73  
Old 11-26-17, 07:35 PM
Kirtland Fan Kirtland Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HornetFanatic View Post
You are correct, almost all running in the 2nd half.
3 pass attempts, all intended for Madden. 1 complete for a 2 point conversion, 1 incomplete and 1 incomplete with a pass interference penalty. So overall, pretty productive lol!


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Once again, well done on the stats!
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  #74  
Old 11-26-17, 07:43 PM
Kirtland Fan Kirtland Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HornetFanatic View Post
2017 Hornet rushing (thru 14)
Neibecker - 1469
Torok - 1403

Neibecker & Torok are Jr.ís

2015 Hornet rushing
Bates - 1937
Allchin - 1085

2014 Hornet rushing
Boyd - 1688
Hess - 1483
Skiljan - 1056

2013 Hornet rushing
Kukura - 1764
Hess - 1299

2012 Hornet rushing
Washington -1903

2012 Hornet rushing
Hauber - 1901

2011 Hornet rushing
Hauber - 1303

Fun to look back!



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Yes, that's good stuff!

Question: I thought that Hauber's senior year was 2011 (the year that Kirtland beat Coldwater)? You have him with 1901 yards in 2012, which is more than what he gained in 2011(the championship year)?

I totally forgot about Boyd in 2014, and I didn't realize until now that Bates has the record for most rushing yards in a season for Kirtland (albeit, not by much).

Anyone know how is Damon Washington doing at Miami? I know that he redshirted for a couple of years, then I stopped following him.
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  #75  
Old 11-26-17, 07:47 PM
Kirtland Fan Kirtland Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HornetFanatic View Post
You are correct, almost all running in the 2nd half.
3 pass attempts, all intended for Madden. 1 complete for a 2 point conversion, 1 incomplete and 1 incomplete with a pass interference penalty. So overall, pretty productive lol!


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That 2 point conversion ended up being huge! I remember hearing after the game that Madden kept telling the coaches that ML was not covering him on play action pitches, and begging for a pass play to be called. Can't blame Kirtland coaches for continuing to dial up running plays as long as they kept working, which they did in the second half.
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  #76  
Old 11-26-17, 07:48 PM
HornetFanatic HornetFanatic is offline
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Originally Posted by Kirtland Fan View Post
Yes, that's good stuff!



Question: I thought that Hauber's senior year was 2011 (the year that Kirtland beat Coldwater)? You have him with 1901 yards in 2012, which is more than what he gained in 2011(the championship year)?



I totally forgot about Boyd in 2014, and I didn't realize until now that Bates has the record for most rushing yards in a season for Kirtland (albeit, not by much).



Anyone know how is Damon Washington doing at Miami? I know that he redshirted for a couple of years, then I stopped following him.


You are correct about Hauber. 2010 was 1303 and 2011 was 1901.

Damon has graduated from Miami and I believe is living and working down in the Cincinnati area


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  #77  
Old 11-26-17, 07:57 PM
Kirtland Fan Kirtland Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by HornetFanatic View Post
You are correct about Hauber. 2010 was 1303 and 2011 was 1901.

Damon has graduated from Miami and I believe is living and working down in the Cincinnati area


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OK. Keep up the good work on the stats! That's good stuff for these threads. It puts the performance of the current year team into context with past Kirtland teams/players.
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  #78  
Old 11-26-17, 08:50 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by Kirtland Fan View Post
Yes, exactly. Nice command of Buckeye history, BTW!

Here are a couple of pictures of Hauber (#34).





Hauber went to Air Force.
saw that game...that was the first person I thought of when I saw him run the ball....
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  #79  
Old 11-26-17, 10:11 PM
CJK84 CJK84 is offline
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Originally Posted by Msfootball View Post
It's laughable to think they looked past a team in a state finals game.
If you read my post, I said ML might have looked past them a bit (not looked past them entirely as I believe your message suggests).

Why is that not possible?

In 2011, ML was leading 54-7 at one point in the state final - a complete blowout. In the 2012 final, ML lost nearly half of its offense when its talented leading rusher - and only true varsity tailback - went down very early. The Flyers still won - and with only 4 seniors on the field consistently (the only other senior physically fit to play was hobbled with a bad ankle and used sparingly).

The 2013 and 2014 state final games weren't even close - the Flyers dominated.

Why is it not even possible that Marion would go into a state final the following season a bit overconfident? 24-0 playoff record in the past five seasons; and in the previous year, Kirtland had lost to a Minster team that Marion had beaten easily - K had given up nearly 50 points to the Wildcats.

To say that it's "laughable" to consider Marion might have overlooked Kirtland a bit doesn't seem reasonable - it's like saying Rhonda Rousey couldn't possibly have overlooked Holly Holm even by a slight amount. Or that the '68 Colts couldn't have possibly been a smidgen overconfident against Joe Namath and the Jets.

Last edited by CJK84; 11-26-17 at 10:30 PM.
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  #80  
Old 11-26-17, 10:30 PM
Msfootball Msfootball is offline
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I noticed that you said they "might" have overlooked Kirtland. I stand by my assertion that they did not overlook them. Yes it is laughable. So they overlooked a team that was about to play in their fifth straight state final? A team that out-scored Coldwater 33-17 in two meetings? MSML knows how good the Cavs are. Not possible they overlooked them. Kirtland is just a team that is very very hard to put away. I don't think they will get past the Flyers this time, but if they do, then gonna have to admit they probably just have our number.

Last edited by Msfootball; 11-26-17 at 10:55 PM.
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  #81  
Old 11-26-17, 10:39 PM
CJK84 CJK84 is offline
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Originally Posted by Msfootball View Post
So they overlooked a team that was about to play in their fifth straight state final?
When you're 24-0 (ML's playoff record at the time) there is at least the possibility that you become slightly overconfident, particularly when facing a team that had lost the last two state finals it has appeared in (while you've won four in a row) - and that fields a squad that is purported to be a little less talented than recent teams the school has fielded.

Last edited by CJK84; 11-26-17 at 11:59 PM.
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  #82  
Old 11-26-17, 11:39 PM
StateChampion2012 StateChampion2012 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirtland Fan View Post
Coldwater did it in 2012, beating Kirtland 10-9, and most recently, Cuyahoga Heights did it twice last year, shutting out Kirtland both times, before Cuyahoga Hts went down to ML.

Well coached teams like ML, Coldwater and Cuyahoga Hts can do it.
Yes we did. We also had 23 seniors (including myself) and a defense with Multiple 2 and 3 year starters. Experience will win ball games as well as great coaching. Is Kirtland a young ball club this year?
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  #83  
Old 11-26-17, 11:46 PM
StateChampion2012 StateChampion2012 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msfootball View Post
Exactly. It's laughable to think they looked past a team in a state finals game. Did they not watch Kirtland's two games against Coldwater. Marion Local was riddled with injuries that year which did seem to hurt their fluidity of play. It wasn't just the proverbial "injuries are part of the game". That was about the worst I've seen in a season. Fortunately they have stayed pretty healthy this year.
Same story as Coldwater vs Kirtland 2011. I remember seeing Hauber and thinking this guy looks, runs, and hits like a 30 year man lol. Here's something not a lot of people know. When we got off our bus in Massilon in 2012, Christian Hauber was there. I have a lot of respect for him. Best of luck to both teams

Last edited by StateChampion2012; 11-27-17 at 12:01 AM.
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  #84  
Old 11-27-17, 01:08 AM
Kirtland Fan Kirtland Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by StateChampion2012 View Post
Yes we did. We also had 23 seniors (including myself) and a defense with Multiple 2 and 3 year starters. Experience will win ball games as well as great coaching. Is Kirtland a young ball club this year?
Young? Not really, unless you consider juniors as "young." Kirtland's two runners are juniors. QB is a senior. 90% of Kirtland's starters are juniors and seniors, with a nice stable of freshmen and sophomores seeing some playing time this year, and being able to step in next year.
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  #85  
Old 11-27-17, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by StateChampion2012 View Post
Same story as Coldwater vs Kirtland 2011. I remember seeing Hauber and thinking this guy looks, runs, and hits like a 30 year man lol. Here's something not a lot of people know. When we got off our bus in Massilon in 2012, Christian Hauber was there. I have a lot of respect for him. Best of luck to both teams
The respect is mutual.
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  #86  
Old 11-27-17, 06:09 AM
Msfootball Msfootball is offline
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At this point, it's looking like 40 degrees and no rain around game time. Good football weather
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  #87  
Old 11-27-17, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by CJK84 View Post
If you read my post, I said ML might have looked past them a bit (not looked past them entirely as I believe your message suggests).

Why is that not possible?

In 2011, ML was leading 54-7 at one point in the state final - a complete blowout. In the 2012 final, ML lost nearly half of its offense when its talented leading rusher - and only true varsity tailback - went down very early. The Flyers still won - and with only 4 seniors on the field consistently (the only other senior physically fit to play was hobbled with a bad ankle and used sparingly).

The 2013 and 2014 state final games weren't even close - the Flyers dominated.

Why is it not even possible that Marion would go into a state final the following season a bit overconfident? 24-0 playoff record in the past five seasons; and in the previous year, Kirtland had lost to a Minster team that Marion had beaten easily - K had given up nearly 50 points to the Wildcats.

To say that it's "laughable" to consider Marion might have overlooked Kirtland a bit doesn't seem reasonable - it's like saying Rhonda Rousey couldn't possibly have overlooked Holly Holm even by a slight amount. Or that the '68 Colts couldn't have possibly been a smidgen overconfident against Joe Namath and the Jets.
maybe it was the fans that MIGHT have been over confident.....
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  #88  
Old 11-27-17, 07:31 AM
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Going to be a killer game. Two awesome programs. Good luck to Kirtland !


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  #89  
Old 11-27-17, 08:35 AM
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maybe it was the fans that MIGHT have been over confident.....
Speaking as a parent of a player who has both won AND lost championship games in consecutive years, players always go into games with a certain level of confidence. I didn't notice any "overconfidence" in our son or his teammates either year, and certainly the coaches at Kirtland were never overconfident. Fans absolutely get overconfident all the time, but "fan" is short for "fanatic", so that's not surprising.

I can guarantee you that neither team is coming into this game OVERconfident, but both teams are certainly coming in confident. You don't get to this level without having some confidence in yourself and your teammates. At this level, especially after multiple state appearances by both teams, these coaches know how to keep their kids grounded and focused.
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  #90  
Old 11-27-17, 08:54 AM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirtland Fan View Post
Yes, exactly. Nice command of Buckeye history, BTW!

Here are a couple of pictures of Hauber (#34).





Hauber went to Air Force.
That kid was just a good old fashioned football player. One of my all time favorite championship game players.
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