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View Poll Results: Who wins?
Kirtland by 17+ 2 2.33%
Kirtland by 8-16 5 5.81%
Kirtland by 1-7 19 22.09%
Marion Local by 1-7 19 22.09%
Marion Local by 8-16 31 36.05%
Marion Local by 17+ 10 11.63%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Old 11-25-17, 12:08 PM
kingpin2010 kingpin2010 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirtland Fan View Post
You mean many turnovers by ML like 2015? If so, I'm hoping the same thing, but I agree with your predicted score in a straight-up game with no turnovers.
Turnovers are apart of the game, a big part. Kirtland still had to be in the right position to pounce and capitalize on those turnovers. Also Kirtlands physical play imo certainly was a reason for those turnovers.
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  #32  
Old 11-25-17, 12:09 PM
kingpin2010 kingpin2010 is offline
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Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
Really believe this game is a toss-up. When it comes to small school football NE Ohio and the MAC has separated itself from the rest of the state not sure why that is but its pretty obvious. Will go with the Flyers 27-21 but I think this game could go either way.
That's an easy answer, coaching and dedication from the kids.
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  #33  
Old 11-25-17, 12:40 PM
Kirtland Fan Kirtland Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
Really believe this game is a toss-up. When it comes to small school football NE Ohio and the MAC has separated itself from the rest of the state not sure why that is but its pretty obvious. Will go with the Flyers 27-21 but I think this game could go either way.
It is because the MAC seems to coach good fundamental football -- blocking, tackling, etc.... You have teams like ML and Coldwater that set the bar, and that elevates the level of play other teams like Minster. Same kind of thing is starting to happen in northeastern Ohio with Kirtland setting the bar lately in its region, and other teams elevating their level of prep and play. Then add dedicated kids who work all year long, and you have a recipe for continuing success.

Last edited by Kirtland Fan; 11-25-17 at 12:51 PM.
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  #34  
Old 11-25-17, 01:06 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by Kirtland Fan View Post
It is because the MAC seems to coach good fundamental football -- blocking, tackling, etc.... You have teams like ML and Coldwater that set the bar, and that elevates the level of play other teams like Minster. Same kind of thing is starting to happen in northeastern Ohio with Kirtland setting the bar lately in its region, and other teams elevating their level of prep and play. Then add dedicated kids who work all year long, and you have a recipe for continuing success.
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  #35  
Old 11-25-17, 02:31 PM
fireflyer fireflyer is offline
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What day/time is this game?
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  #36  
Old 11-25-17, 02:39 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Originally Posted by fireflyer View Post
What day/time is this game?
Saturday 10:00 am. How is Carolina ?
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  #37  
Old 11-25-17, 03:03 PM
CJK84 CJK84 is offline
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The tough thing for the Flyers is that they have not really faced a team that is nearly run-exclusive since they played Kirtland two years ago. It's difficult to significantly re-tool your defense in only one week.

This season, perhaps Versailles' triple-option offense would be the closest thing to Kirtland's and in week 5 the Tigers scored three td's on Marion - no other team has scored more than one except Liberty Benton.

However, I also think Marion looked past Kirtland a bit two years ago because of K's loss to Minster the previous year.

Obviously, Goodwin and the Flyers won't look past Kirtland this year. I think ML will have just enough to pull out the win by a score.

ML 19-14
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  #38  
Old 11-25-17, 03:06 PM
algernonsidney algernonsidney is offline
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I took the Flyers. They are just too tough.
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  #39  
Old 11-25-17, 03:12 PM
CJK84 CJK84 is offline
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flowers for algernon ... thanks for the support
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  #40  
Old 11-25-17, 03:27 PM
LICKING COUNTY FAN LICKING COUNTY FAN is offline
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Kirtland is one of three I still have left as far as my preseason predictions goes.

Kirtland by 6
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  #41  
Old 11-25-17, 03:43 PM
serpico serpico is offline
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Originally Posted by CJK84 View Post
The tough thing for the Flyers is that they have not really faced a team that is nearly run-exclusive since they played Kirtland two years ago. It's difficult to significantly re-tool your defense in only one week.
I dunno, Fort Recovery had become pretty run-exclusive by the time the playoffs rolled around. Granted, Homan was more of a home run hitter, but the Flyers did re-tool their d-line to face FR.
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  #42  
Old 11-25-17, 04:43 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by serpico View Post
I dunno, Fort Recovery had become pretty run-exclusive by the time the playoffs rolled around. Granted, Homan was more of a home run hitter, but the Flyers did re-tool their d-line to face FR.
I'm guessing Kirtland will be more disciplined in their play calling and stick with the run no matter what the Flyers do.
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  #43  
Old 11-25-17, 05:21 PM
Kirtland Fan Kirtland Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
I'm guessing Kirtland will be more disciplined in their play calling and stick with the run no matter what the Flyers do.
Kirtland will stubbornly run 90% of the time (as they've done for the past 7 years), and only pass when teams crowd the box to stuff the run. You want to beat Kirtland? Stuff Kirtland's running game for 4 quarters on defense, and exploit Kirtland's questionable pass defense on offense. ML pretty much did both against Kirtland in the first half of their game in 2015, but didn't do those things as well in the second half against Kirtland.
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  #44  
Old 11-25-17, 05:33 PM
fireflyer fireflyer is offline
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Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
Saturday 10:00 am. How is Carolina ?
I LOVE it here. It really is wonderful...there has been bright sunshine every day, highs in the 60's. I like that a lot. We're sort of completely settled in...our new church home is lovely-- lots of older couples, like us. Feels very comfy. Having my granddaughter next door is the 7th level of heaven for me--granddad too. We've settled on Lincolton High as the team we'll be following--I believe they are still in the playoffs--3A, which is equal to DIII. We've listened to the ML games on WCSM, great games! GO FLYERS!
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  #45  
Old 11-25-17, 08:00 PM
hoser hoser is offline
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Originally Posted by fallsdog View Post
For my money, this is the marquee matchup of the weekend. I would encourage any high school football fan with the time Saturday morning to consider taking this game in.
UH, sorry watching D6 games in any year is not a "marquee" matchup. Uh more like watching a JV game at the D1 level. Uh game is way slower, kids are way slower and 7 or 8 kids go both ways.
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  #46  
Old 11-25-17, 10:11 PM
StateChampion2012 StateChampion2012 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirtland Fan View Post
Kirtland will stubbornly run 90% of the time (as they've done for the past 7 years), and only pass when teams crowd the box to stuff the run. You want to beat Kirtland? Stuff Kirtland's running game for 4 quarters on defense, and exploit Kirtland's questionable pass defense on offense. ML pretty much did both against Kirtland in the first half of their game in 2015, but didn't do those things as well in the second half against Kirtland.
Easier said than done
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  #47  
Old 11-26-17, 02:07 AM
Msfootball Msfootball is offline
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In 2015 Marion Local had a slight edge in total yards. The difference was Kirtland won the turnover battle and controlled the clock. This game will probably be decided by turnovers again, although I predict time of possession is going to be more even this time around. I think it will be a stalemate at the line of scrimmage. If the MSMl passing game is clicking, I think they can get some separation and win by a couple scores. If they can't pass, then it'll come down to the final drive of the game.
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  #48  
Old 11-26-17, 08:17 AM
Kirtland Fan Kirtland Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by StateChampion2012 View Post
Easier said than done
Coldwater did it in 2012, beating Kirtland 10-9, and most recently, Cuyahoga Heights did it twice last year, shutting out Kirtland both times, before Cuyahoga Hts went down to ML.

Well coached teams like ML, Coldwater and Cuyahoga Hts can do it.
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  #49  
Old 11-26-17, 08:26 AM
Kirtland Fan Kirtland Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by Msfootball View Post
In 2015 Marion Local had a slight edge in total yards. The difference was Kirtland won the turnover battle and controlled the clock. This game will probably be decided by turnovers again, although I predict time of possession is going to be more even this time around. I think it will be a stalemate at the line of scrimmage. If the MSMl passing game is clicking, I think they can get some separation and win by a couple scores. If they can't pass, then it'll come down to the final drive of the game.
I agree with your point about turnovers in 2015, however, you may remember that ML pretty much stuffed Kirtland's running attack in the first half. However, ML couldn't control Kirtland's running game in the second half. Kirtland's running game wore down ML's D by the end of the game, when Kirtland was gaining large chunks of yards. Coach Goodwin admitted that ML "threw every kind of front possible" against Kirtland's running attack in the second half, and just couldn't stop them. That's a typical pattern with Kirtland opponents. They do a pretty good job against the run in the first half, but Kirtland's relentless pounding of the ball eventually will wear down defenses. ML has to stuff Kirtland's running attack for 4 quarters like Coldwater did in 2012, and like Cuyahoga Hts did twice against Kirtland last year to prevail. Otherwise, your other point -- ball control -- comes into play, because Kirtland's ground and pound offense eats up clock and keeps the ball away from opposing offenses. Kirtland is happy with 3 to 4 yards a crack. It's not exciting to watch, but it's been very effective. That's why I state repeatedly that to stop Kirtland you have to stop the run for 4 quarters.

If ML's passing game is clicking and if ML stuffs Kirtland's running game for 4 quarters, I have no doubt that ML will win by more than two scores because pass defense has been Kirtland's weakness all year long.
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  #50  
Old 11-26-17, 08:40 AM
DB 04 DB 04 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirtland Fan View Post
I agree with your point about turnovers in 2015, however, you may remember that ML pretty much stuffed Kirtland's running attack in the first half. However, ML couldn't control Kirtland's running game in the second half. Kirtland's running game wore down ML's D by the end of the game, when Kirtland was gaining large chunks of yards. Coach Goodwin admitted that ML "threw every kind of front possible" against Kirtland's running attack in the second half, and just couldn't stop them. That's a typical pattern with Kirtland opponents. They do a pretty good job against the run in the first half, but Kirtland's relentless pounding of the ball eventually will wear down defenses. ML has to stuff Kirtland's running attack for 4 quarters like Coldwater did in 2012, and like Cuyahoga Hts did twice against Kirtland last year to prevail. Otherwise, your other point -- ball control -- comes into play, because Kirtland's ground and pound offense eats up clock and keeps the ball away from opposing offenses. Kirtland is happy with 3 to 4 yards a crack. It's not exciting to watch, but it's been very effective. That's why I state repeatedly that to stop Kirtland you have to stop the run for 4 quarters.

If ML's passing game is clicking and if ML stuffs Kirtland's running game for 4 quarters, I have no doubt that ML will win by more than two scores because pass defense has been Kirtland's weakness all year long.
Good Luck to you guys Kirtland Fan!
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  #51  
Old 11-26-17, 08:52 AM
CJK84 CJK84 is offline
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Originally Posted by serpico View Post
I dunno, Fort Recovery had become pretty run-exclusive by the time the playoffs rolled around.
I agree to an extent, but FR had only Homan to rely on - the entire defense could key on him. Kirtland will likely have two or three guys with at least 10 carries in this game and, if so, present a significantly new challenge to the Flyers. Figuring out who has the ball following each snap is a challenge itself.
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  #52  
Old 11-26-17, 09:44 AM
Kirtland Fan Kirtland Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by CJK84 View Post
I agree to an extent, but FR had only Homan to rely on - the entire defense could key on him. Kirtland will likely have two or three guys with at least 10 carries in this game and, if so, present a significantly new challenge to the Flyers. Figuring out who has the ball following each snap is a challenge itself.
If you want to get an idea of what Kirtland is going to run on offense, you can watch a replay of the 2015 ML vs. Kirtland game and Kirtland's playoff games so far this year (I'm sure that Goodwin and his assistant coaches will). If you are a Spectrum subscriber, you can watch a couple of Kirtland's games from this season. Kirtland has about 10 running plays that they run out of different formations. The only questions for defenses are: right, left or off tackle? When defenses crowd the box to stuff the run, that's when Kirtland will try to pop a pass over the top. It's the same Kirtland-styled offense for the past 7 years.

If there's one thing that you can say about Kirtland's offense, it's that they are VERY predictable!! They will win or lose by trying to run the ball.
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  #53  
Old 11-26-17, 10:24 AM
Msfootball Msfootball is offline
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Originally Posted by Kirtland Fan View Post
If you want to get an idea of what Kirtland is going to run on offense, you can watch a replay of the 2015 ML vs. Kirtland game and Kirtland's playoff games so far this year (I'm sure that Goodwin and his assistant coaches will). If you are a Spectrum subscriber, you can watch a couple of Kirtland's games from this season. Kirtland has about 10 running plays that they run out of different formations. The only questions for defenses are: right, left or off tackle? When defenses crowd the box to stuff the run, that's when Kirtland will try to pop a pass over the top. It's the same Kirtland-styled offense for the past 7 years.

If there's one thing that you can say about Kirtland's offense, it's that they are VERY predictable!! They will win or lose by trying to run the ball.
And Kirtland is very good at it. Kinda like the Versailles teams under Hetrick. Nothing flashy, just execute the heck out of you on the ground. Last year MSML controlled the clock on Cuyahoga and outgained them on the ground 209 to 47 yards. Cuyahoga had more passing yards, but just like the 2015 finals, the team who controlled the clock on the ground won. I think this year the Flyers are physical enough and have the depth at rushing to make it interesting in terms of who controls the clock.
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  #54  
Old 11-26-17, 10:44 AM
Kirtland Fan Kirtland Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by Msfootball View Post
And Kirtland is very good at it. Kinda like the Versailles teams under Hetrick. Nothing flashy, just execute the heck out of you on the ground. Last year MSML controlled the clock on Cuyahoga and outgained them on the ground 209 to 47 yards. Cuyahoga had more passing yards, but just like the 2015 finals, the team who controlled the clock on the ground won. I think this year the Flyers are physical enough and have the depth at rushing to make it interesting in terms of who controls the clock.
History has shown that whichever team controls the line of scrimmage will usually win the game. Yes, turnovers can be a killer at this level, but assuming a turnover-free game, the winner will be the team that controls the line of scrimmage for the entire game.
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  #55  
Old 11-26-17, 11:44 AM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by Kirtland Fan View Post
History has shown that whichever team controls the line of scrimmage will usually win the game. Yes, turnovers can be a killer at this level, but assuming a turnover-free game, the winner will be the team that controls the line of scrimmage for the entire game.
how big are the boys up front for Kirtland? do they also have big back like they did with #39 a few years ago?
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  #56  
Old 11-26-17, 12:38 PM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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I think this may be the game of the weekend. I love the small town football games with everyone there in the team colors cheering on the neighbor kids. People will fill the place for the big school games, but this game is really what it's all about.
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  #57  
Old 11-26-17, 01:43 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by CJK84 View Post
The tough thing for the Flyers is that they have not really faced a team that is nearly run-exclusive since they played Kirtland two years ago. It's difficult to significantly re-tool your defense in only one week.

This season, perhaps Versailles' triple-option offense would be the closest thing to Kirtland's and in week 5 the Tigers scored three td's on Marion - no other team has scored more than one except Liberty Benton.

However, I also think Marion looked past Kirtland a bit two years ago because of K's loss to Minster the previous year.

Obviously, Goodwin and the Flyers won't look past Kirtland this year. I think ML will have just enough to pull out the win by a score.

ML 19-14
c'mon< think the Flyers looked past Kirtland in a game that was for the State Championship? Really? my memory isn't as good as it used to be, but didn't the Boys from Kirtland drive the ball 97 yards on a game winning drive....and wasn't it ALL runs in that drive...maybe that had something to do with it....
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  #58  
Old 11-26-17, 01:54 PM
Kirtland Fan Kirtland Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by bigkat View Post
how big are the boys up front for Kirtland? do they also have big back like they did with #39 a few years ago?
Others on these threads have posted that the Kirtland line averages 250 based on OHSAA online stats. #39 (Adam Hess) was actually a converted offensive lineman (on the 2012-2014 teams), and no, Kirtland doesn't have a Hess-type of back this year (at least no where near Hess's production). Kirtland does have a couple 1,000 yard rushers, one inside guy and one outside guy, and the QB has been known to run by design as well.
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  #59  
Old 11-26-17, 01:59 PM
Msfootball Msfootball is offline
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Originally Posted by bigkat View Post
c'mon< think the Flyers looked past Kirtland in a game that was for the State Championship? Really? my memory isn't as good as it used to be, but didn't the Boys from Kirtland drive the ball 97 yards on a game winning drive....and wasn't it ALL runs in that drive...maybe that had something to do with it....
Exactly. It's laughable to think they looked past a team in a state finals game. Did they not watch Kirtland's two games against Coldwater. Marion Local was riddled with injuries that year which did seem to hurt their fluidity of play. It wasn't just the proverbial "injuries are part of the game". That was about the worst I've seen in a season. Fortunately they have stayed pretty healthy this year.
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  #60  
Old 11-26-17, 02:00 PM
Kirtland Fan Kirtland Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by clarkgriswold View Post
I think this may be the game of the weekend. I love the small town football games with everyone there in the team colors cheering on the neighbor kids. People will fill the place for the big school games, but this game is really what it's all about.
^^+1
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