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  #91  
Old 12-06-17, 02:24 PM
cincifbfan cincifbfan is offline
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But we are talking about football. Almost every D2 football school is D1 in everything else.
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  #92  
Old 12-06-17, 05:39 PM
W@rrior 11 W@rrior 11 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
I'm curious of the use of the term "threat" by some in describing how other conferences view WW football. IMO it's a provocative mind set that probably not only complicates WW's interactions with other leagues but also keeps the focus off what WW needs to do to make themselves more attractive to a conference. I get that it's easier to accept that the reason the ECC or GMC aren't inviting WW in is that they're afraid of them in football then to face other potential issues.

But I don't buy it and here's why: under no scenario can anyone believe that WW would have dominated the GMC like Colerain has since 2000. So if the GMC schools were so afraid of being "dominated" and viewed the inability to win conference titles in football as the most important goal of their athletic programs then they would have long ago dissolved the GMC and reformed it minus Colerain.

That they haven't done this convinces me that the powers that be in the GMC don't view domination in football by one team as a "threat". An annoyance maybe but not a big deal. To the typical GMC BOE member, Superintendent, HS Principal and even AD, winning football games is nice and they would love to end Colerain's streak but on a scale of what's important in their district it lies down near the bottom.
Threat meaning WW doesn't mind playing larger schools and having a possibility of winning. Threat meaning they are a D2 football team and in the Ohio playoff system you don't get as many points for winning against a D2 team as if they were D1. I'm not saying the GMC is scared to play WW because they are not. I just think its a preference thing. Colerain will not play WW because they are D2.
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  #93  
Old 12-06-17, 05:55 PM
llthayes19 llthayes19 is offline
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Originally Posted by warriorblue View Post
I'm with you. I'm tired if hearing about this. This is a joke. I remember one of the arguments of WW not getting in to the ECC was distance. But you invite Harrison and Little Miami. Smh. I could go on and on but I will digress.
Yeah Im with you on that. The whole distance thing. WW is still in the same building on Kemper Rd on Forest Park lol!

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  #94  
Old 12-06-17, 05:58 PM
HSFB Fan HSFB Fan is offline
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GMC doesent need WW...The GMC would be looking to court a West Clermont and Lebanon that would be better fits. Lebanon moving from the GWOC or Sycamore from the GMC to the ECC would be going backwards...

Princeton and Middletown are not going anywhere. Harrison and OH would not need to join the ECC "although" if either did they would be very competitive in all sports.

ECC expansion would be better all the around for WW and Little Miami...

Forcasting the future...If there is no combining of NW and Colerain high schools...Colerain may be the team leaving the GMC since they are struggling in every other sport other than football male or female and its not going to improve any time soon.
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  #95  
Old 12-06-17, 08:09 PM
mrsimp06 mrsimp06 is offline
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Originally Posted by HSFB Fan View Post
GMC doesent need WW...The GMC would be looking to court a West Clermont and Lebanon that would be better fits. Lebanon moving from the GWOC or Sycamore from the GMC to the ECC would be going backwards...

Princeton and Middletown are not going anywhere. Harrison and OH would not need to join the ECC "although" if either did they would be very competitive in all sports.

ECC expansion would be better all the around for WW and Little Miami...

Forcasting the future...If there is no combining of NW and Colerain high schools...Colerain may be the team leaving the GMC since they are struggling in every other sport other than football male or female and its not going to improve any time soon.
I could see them combining schools it makes sense unless there is faction of the community that simply don't want it i.e. Turin and Anderson
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  #96  
Old 12-07-17, 09:35 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W@rrior 11 View Post
Threat meaning WW doesn't mind playing larger schools and having a possibility of winning. Threat meaning they are a D2 football team and in the Ohio playoff system you don't get as many points for winning against a D2 team as if they were D1. I'm not saying the GMC is scared to play WW because they are not. I just think its a preference thing. Colerain will not play WW because they are D2.
Fair enough.

And back to the original point of the thread it seems to me it would make the most sense for LM & WW to be added to the ECC if they want to expand. Little Miami is growing by leaps & bounds and IMO they are the new "Mason" who in my lifetime will end up joining the GMC. With a little imaginative geography WW could be portrayed as being more "east" then "west".
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  #97  
Old 12-07-17, 09:53 AM
rocketman82 rocketman82 is offline
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Originally Posted by mrsimp06 View Post
I could see them combining schools it makes sense unless there is faction of the community that simply don't want it i.e. Turin and Anderson
A “faction”? Try a strong majority of voters that voted down combining the schools.
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  #98  
Old 12-07-17, 10:07 AM
LaneDixon LaneDixon is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
Fair enough.

With a little imaginative geography WW could be portrayed as being more "east" then "west".
East of ... Harrison.
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  #99  
Old 12-07-17, 10:08 AM
Vinegar Vinegar is offline
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What if Little Miami, Winton Woods and Sycamore apply. Who gets selected?

What if Little Miami, Winton Woods, Princeton, Sycamore and Western Brown apply. Who gets selected?

What if Withrow takes this opportunity to say, "we want out?"

What if only 1 school applies?

Any chance nobody applies?
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  #100  
Old 12-07-17, 10:13 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is online now
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Originally Posted by LaneDixon View Post
East of ... Harrison.
.............and definitely East of Indiana!
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  #101  
Old 12-07-17, 10:18 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinegar View Post
What if Little Miami, Winton Woods and Sycamore apply. Who gets selected?

What if Little Miami, Winton Woods, Princeton, Sycamore and Western Brown apply. Who gets selected?

What if Withrow takes this opportunity to say, "we want out?"

What if only 1 school applies?

Any chance nobody applies?
Frankly, the most likely question you ask to hapen is "what if only 1 school applies". I suspect that WW is a guarantee to apply.

I can't imagine Princeton or Sycamore jumping from the GMC to the ECC. LM is the wild card and I don't know enough about them to predict which way the winds are blowing out there other then to say they are building house like crazy in the district.

I also would think that Withrow will try to fix their issues before abandoning a conference that could be an outstanding fit for them and acts to distinguish them from other urban Cincinnati schools.
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  #102  
Old 12-07-17, 01:14 PM
Vinegar Vinegar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
I also would think that Withrow will try to fix their issues before abandoning a conference that could be an outstanding fit for them and acts to distinguish them from other urban Cincinnati schools.
Great point.
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  #103  
Old 12-07-17, 02:22 PM
llthayes19 llthayes19 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
Frankly, the most likely question you ask to hapen is "what if only 1 school applies". I suspect that WW is a guarantee to apply.

I can't imagine Princeton or Sycamore jumping from the GMC to the ECC. LM is the wild card and I don't know enough about them to predict which way the winds are blowing out there other then to say they are building house like crazy in the district.

I also would think that Withrow will try to fix their issues before abandoning a conference that could be an outstanding fit for them and acts to distinguish them from other urban Cincinnati schools.
I hear grumplings from Withrow parents, Coaches and Alumni that feel that the ECC refs are racist towards them. Feeling like they are never having a fair shot in Football and basketball games. My solution was to work on your game and leave no doubt. Step up to the challenge and make it workout because its a perfect conference for your school.

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  #104  
Old 12-07-17, 03:28 PM
catstix catstix is offline
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Withrow

I think that Withrow and the ECC has been discussed in other threads about this topic for a while now. I'm really curious if the ECC received 3 legit candidates for admission if the ECC powers would seriously consider asking Withrow to leave the conference.

It is my opinion that they would not ask Withrow to leave as I think many of these schools don't mind having a "bye week" built into their grind of games each year. Unless the schools are that upset about the lower level teams not being fielded, I just don't see Withrow being shown the door unless they open and close it themselves.

Since this is the football forum and the ECC's potential expansion is football driven, I'm speaking mainly from the football mindset. Withrow hasn't been a great addition to the conference, but I think some other schools like not being the doormat of the conference and are just fine having Withrow keep them from falling to that spot.
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  #105  
Old 12-07-17, 04:42 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llthayes19 View Post
I hear grumplings from Withrow parents, Coaches and Alumni that feel that the ECC refs are racist towards them. Feeling like they are never having a fair shot in Football and basketball games. My solution was to work on your game and leave no doubt. Step up to the challenge and make it workout because its a perfect conference for your school.

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I'm an ignoramus about basketball so I have no idea if these concerns are valid in that sport but I have watched a couple of Withrow football games on TV over the last few years on Spectrum (before that TWC) and IMO their problems have nothing to do with biased officiating and everything to with blocking & tackling.

As an aside I wonder how much of these concerns are being voiced by "alumni" & parents and not coaches. IMO if real bias existed the coaches & administrators would pull Withrow out of the EEC ASAP so their kids would not be exposed to such nonsense. My guess is that after looking at game film the coaches & administrators know there is NO bias against Withrow and when the refs do get a call wrong (which happens at every level) it's not racism but simply screwing up a call.

The sad thing is that the parents & alumni saying this are providing an excuse for failure that is conveniently out of the kids control so why bother working harder or lifting more or showing restraint on the field or studying the playbook. They are doing the players NO favors with this kind of attitude.
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  #106  
Old 12-07-17, 05:30 PM
hoser hoser is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deuces dad View Post
This has been rumored for a number of years, as Sycamore is the smallest GMC school by far. I would expect West Clermont to take their place in the GMC, as they are a huge school, that is threatening to encompass all of Clermont county. Also look for Withrow to leave the ECC, as they are only competitive in Boys Basketball and Girls Track & Field
Uh, nah, Middletown, Sycamore, Colerain, and Princeton are all about the same size.
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  #107  
Old 12-08-17, 08:14 PM
hoser hoser is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llthayes19 View Post
I hear grumplings from Withrow parents, Coaches and Alumni that feel that the ECC refs are racist towards them. Feeling like they are never having a fair shot in Football and basketball games. My solution was to work on your game and leave no doubt. Step up to the challenge and make it workout because its a perfect conference for your school.

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Uh, PLEASE, enough is enough. Uh are there some refs who are bad for one reason or whatever, absolutely? Uh race discrimination ? Noway. I would argue the problem with ref crews today is, a lot of them are so old and out of shape, they are out of position a lot and cant actually see the plays they are supposed to call. Don't know why anyone would be a high school referee in todays climate.
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  #108  
Old 12-10-17, 07:10 AM
HSFB Fan HSFB Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoser View Post
Uh, nah, Middletown, Sycamore, Colerain, and Princeton are all about the same size.
They are all about the same size student population wise. but if you walk the campus of all four you will find that Princeton, Sycamore and Middletown facilities are more in line with a modern D1 school.

Colerain needs a lot of money put into the building and instructional resources. This is even after the tens of thousands have already been spent to try to bring up the facilities to code and improve the learning enviroment. Declning facilities, declining ability to compete in other sports puts Colerain on top of the list of members that could leave the GMC.

Last edited by HSFB Fan; 12-10-17 at 07:27 AM.
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  #109  
Old 12-10-17, 07:17 AM
llthayes19 llthayes19 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoser View Post
Uh, PLEASE, enough is enough. Uh are there some refs who are bad for one reason or whatever, absolutely? Uh race discrimination ? Noway. I would argue the problem with ref crews today is, a lot of them are so old and out of shape, they are out of position a lot and cant actually see the plays they are supposed to call. Don't know why anyone would be a high school referee in todays climate.
I officiated for years High School, in NAIA and D2/3 NCAA. The problem is a lot of these guys don't take pride in The Craft. They don't study the game at all. A lot of these guys are in the wrong places on the floor and also looking in the wrong area to make their judgment call. For the most part this is truly just a second job for these guys to make money. And I have been with some Crews that do discriminate. And feel sorry for other teams etc.. I'm not sure if this is the case for Withrow because I've never seen them compete in basketball in the ECC.

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  #110  
Old 12-10-17, 07:41 AM
cincifbfan cincifbfan is offline
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Lots of talk in Hyde Park bout Withrow actively looking to leave ECC. Alumni want to go back to the old league where they dominate everything. Students want to play Woodward, Hugh's and Taft instead of better teams. Withrow will leave sooner than later.
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  #111  
Old 12-10-17, 07:45 AM
llthayes19 llthayes19 is offline
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Originally Posted by cincifbfan View Post
Lots of talk in Hyde Park bout Withrow actively looking to leave ECC. Alumni want to go back to the old league where they dominate everything. Students want to play Woodward, Hugh's and Taft instead of better teams. Withrow will leave sooner than later.
I been trying to say that, but these people don't want to hear it though. Just because everyone else thinks the ECC is the best place for them. That's not how the subject at hand is feeling about the ECC

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  #112  
Old 12-10-17, 08:31 AM
HSFB Fan HSFB Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by llthayes19 View Post
I been trying to say that, but these people don't want to hear it though. Just because everyone else thinks the ECC is the best place for them. That's not how the subject at hand is feeling about the ECC

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You are 100% correct...They do not belong in the ECC unless they plan on having additional varsity sports. I think a lot of people do not know they do not even compete on a varsity level in a lot of the ECC sports...

CMAC is their best fit bit MVC could be an option. They can Schedule tougher comp outside of league WW, Mt Healthy, Northwest, Walnut Hills,Princeton etc, in both boys and girls sports to fill in gaps...
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  #113  
Old 12-10-17, 08:42 AM
llthayes19 llthayes19 is offline
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Originally Posted by HSFB Fan View Post
You are 100% correct...They do not belong in the ECC unless they plan on having additional varsity sports. I think a lot of people do not know they do not even compete on a varsity level in a lot of the ECC sports...

CMAC is their best fit. They can Schedule tougher comp outside of league WW, Mt Healthy, Northwest, Walnut Hills,Princeton etc, in both boys and girls sports to fill in gaps...
This is true! I know they haven't have a girls freshman basketball team for at least 2 years. The participation in sports is definitely down in the inner city. I know for a fact no CPS school don't have Freshman football. They all play JV or varsity. All the 7th/8th grade football team are combined. But unfortunately compared to all the other CPS schools Withrow is ahead of the curve in sports participation. So the CPS league isn't the answer for them either.

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  #114  
Old 12-10-17, 08:56 AM
HSFB Fan HSFB Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by rocketman82 View Post
A “faction”? Try a strong majority of voters that voted down combining the schools.
When was this vote?

The Northwest local SD is combining several elementry schools currently with the facilities levy.
The school board has had many residents express concerns on both sides of the District for and, against combining but currently the SB and the Super is afraid of backlash should they consider merging the High Schools even though a merger would improve instruction, student resources, reduce operating cost and Sports programs would see a huge benifit..
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  #115  
Old 12-10-17, 09:16 AM
HSFB Fan HSFB Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by llthayes19 View Post
This is true! I know they haven't have a girls freshman basketball team for at least 2 years. The participation in sports is definitely down in the inner city. I know for a fact no CPS school don't have Freshman football. They all play JV or varsity. All the 7th/8th grade football team are combined. But unfortunately compared to all the other CPS schools Withrow is ahead of the curve in sports participation. So the CPS league isn't the answer for them either.

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Problem is there are not that many leagues that align with what Withrow can bring to a Confrence. Having no Golf, Bowling, Tennis, Swimming, LX, at a varsity level hurts. The Freshman level in several areas hurts as well when in a league like the ECC, SWOC.
CMAC and MVC align with what the school currently has sports wise and would look to bring them in unlike the CHL or simular leagues.
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  #116  
Old 12-10-17, 10:19 AM
llthayes19 llthayes19 is offline
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Originally Posted by HSFB Fan View Post
Problem is there are not that many leagues that align with what Withrow can bring to a Confrence. Having no Golf, Bowling, Tennis, Swimming, LX, at a varsity level hurts. The Freshman level in several areas hurts as well when in a league like the ECC, SWOC.
CMAC and MVC align with what the school currently has sports wise and would look to bring them in unlike the CHL or simular leagues.
The old CHL...throwback! I remember CAPE used to run through that league in football, baseball and basketball

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  #117  
Old 12-11-17, 08:34 AM
warriorblue warriorblue is offline
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Originally Posted by HSFB Fan View Post
You are 100% correct...They do not belong in the ECC unless they plan on having additional varsity sports. I think a lot of people do not know they do not even compete on a varsity level in a lot of the ECC sports...

CMAC is their best fit bit MVC could be an option. They can Schedule tougher comp outside of league WW, Mt Healthy, Northwest, Walnut Hills,Princeton etc, in both boys and girls sports to fill in gaps...
I said this a while back before this even started but no one listened. Everyone was saying how great Withrow was going to be in the ECC.
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  #118  
Old 12-11-17, 08:50 AM
cincifbfan cincifbfan is offline
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Originally Posted by HSFB Fan View Post
You are 100% correct...They do not belong in the ECC unless they plan on having additional varsity sports. I think a lot of people do not know they do not even compete on a varsity level in a lot of the ECC sports...

CMAC is their best fit bit MVC could be an option. They can Schedule tougher comp outside of league WW, Mt Healthy, Northwest, Walnut Hills,Princeton etc, in both boys and girls sports to fill in gaps...
They can have plans to get more sports, but nobody will be on the teams. Sports participation is WAY down at Withrow. They used to have 80-90 on Varsity football and 70+ on freshman team. Now they get 30 from 9-12 on Friday nights, no freshman team. Kids in CPS just aren't playing sports as much as they used to, period.
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  #119  
Old 12-11-17, 11:15 AM
Vinegar Vinegar is offline
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Prediction....

Sycamore to ECC.

WWoods to GMC.
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  #120  
Old 12-11-17, 11:41 AM
llthayes19 llthayes19 is offline
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Originally Posted by Vinegar View Post
Prediction....

Sycamore to ECC.

WWoods to GMC.
Interested to know why you think the GMC would take WWoods after turning them down before. Only because of Sycamore leaving?

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