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  #31  
Old 12-05-17, 05:24 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
This is absolutely classic coming from you.
As I said, I don't really worry about what stupid people think or say. But, thanks for noticing.
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  #32  
Old 12-05-17, 05:27 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is online now
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Originally Posted by Lambeau Fields View Post
100% agree.

I have a simple, yet reasonable standard for coaches: Be committed, be prepared, and treat kids fairly. You do those 3, and you've lived up to your side of the social contract and I will keep my mouth shut. You violate any, and I reserve the right to chirp.
If there is an issue go to the coach. To chirp from a distance is kind of, cowardly.
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  #33  
Old 12-05-17, 07:20 PM
sapientia et veritas sapientia et veritas is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
What a ridiculous statement.
Holy, unnoticed typos. Many not any.
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  #34  
Old 12-05-17, 09:07 PM
sam the butcher sam the butcher is offline
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Originally Posted by Salesman View Post
I've contemplated writing this for several weeks, but something I read today on Yappi made me act on my thoughts.

As a former head football coach/teacher and parent I feel qualified to get on my soapbox and tell my feeling towards the current state of affairs in high school sports. It stinks!!!

The coaches you bash in person, behind their back, or while hiding behind a keyboard on Yappi is more often than not, a man who has just spent many, many hours coaching your son during the recent football season. He has sacrificed meals with his family; going to his kid's school events; spending time with his wife, etc., so he could coach a group of young men and hopefully make a difference in their lives. He was at the school until all hours of the night during the week attending meeting and watching videos. He was at the JV game on Saturday morning and more that likely in coach's meeting on Sunday. He stayed after practice assisting with weightlifting or talking to your son who may be dealing with a pregnant girlfriend and was too scared to talk to you about it. He attends clinics during the offseason (often at his own expense) to learn about offenses and defenses you would never understand, but openly criticize when things don't go YOUR way. He has BBQs for his staff and their families to create a better working relationship during the offseason. He acts like a father to a young man when his own Dad walks out of the house. He acts like a mother to young men when they decide things are too difficult in a marriage. He is every relative to these young men when they need him. He arranges tutor sessions with players because you are too busy at home to be bother with your kid's grades. He takes your phone calls at night to explain why Johnny is not starting on Friday night. He is professional and doesn't tell you it is because Johnny acts in practice like his Dad does at the games--knows it all and won't listen to the coaches.

Unless he is at a Div 1 high school, he also maybe the equipment manager, keeps records of physicals, and medical issues your son my have. He watches the grades of his varsity players and gets them tutoring when necessary. He drives kids home from practices and games because nobody will come and pick them up. He even takes them to his own home sometimes because Mom and Dad and fighting and nobody wants custody of him this weekend (actually happened). He often takes that call during the night when Johnny gets picked up by the police and he is too afraid to call home.

All of this and more!!! And yet every damn day I see a parent and/or player bashing a coach on this board. Why? Why can't you support the team and coaching staff--through good and bad? Have we as a society become so negative that coaches aren't allowed to make mistakes at the HS level. Most of these coaches have no desire to coach at Ohio State or be the next coach of the Giants. They want to coach at the local high school doing the best they can with what they have to work with. They want to take incoming freshman boys and watch them turn into Senior men who will be productive citizens. That is why they do it!! And as one coach told me recently, they do it for under .25 cents per hour. TWENTY FIVE CENTS!!! Thing about that next time you want to stand up in the stands on Friday night and bash somebody for calling a pass play that didn't work.

I don't coach anymore. I went into private business and later owned my own company. I have total respect for those who coach. They do more than you can ever imagine

Can someone copy this and post it on "Da Site?"
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  #35  
Old 12-05-17, 10:19 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sapientia et veritas View Post
Holy, unnoticed typos. Many not any.
That makes more sense. I've deleted my original comment.
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  #36  
Old 12-05-17, 10:58 PM
Franklin77 Franklin77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mikefln View Post
My son is in 4th grade, but assuming if he was HS age and nothing was tying me to where I live (family/job) and I could live anywhere I wanted, from my vantage point I would live in Massillon Perry SD. Wakefield and Nate Carr are the 2 types of coaches I would want my son learning from. Their old school no nonsense approach is what more kids need. I had great coaches like them, (minus the success that Nate Carr had) who helped you grown as a person more than just growing as a football player/wrestler.

I feel bad for my nephew he played for a "Local Legend" that is 100% about him and not the kids. It went to his head and he lost it. The wrestling coach was just a teacher who wrestled in HS and they needed a warm body. The kids on these teams didn't have a chance.

To tie it back in to this thread, I will agree a coaches job is tough and we should not pick on coaches for bad game calls, but let's be honest and admit that there are bad coaches who do not make it about the kids.


As a football player and wrestler not as a coach but as a student athlete I couldn’t agree anymore. My coaches done so much for me and treated me like their own. They was tough on me when they need to and they wasn’t so tough when they knew something was up and welling to talk.
As far as coach Carr he was one of the greatest coaches I been around teaching wise when he was at prodigy massillon got a amazing coach up there. I remember he was amazing with the kids, showing them moves he would add pow or bam with certain moves so the kids could remember what to do
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  #37  
Old 12-06-17, 01:27 AM
algernonsidney algernonsidney is offline
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It's a sad and unfair reality that high school coaches are held to the same standards as the coaches in college and the pros. While college coaches make six figures and pro coaches make seven figures, people forget that high-school coaches generally make less than minimum wage.
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  #38  
Old 12-06-17, 08:35 AM
lightspeed84 lightspeed84 is offline
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Originally Posted by algernonsidney View Post
It's a sad and unfair reality that high school coaches are held to the same standards as the coaches in college and the pros. While college coaches make six figures and pro coaches make seven figures, people forget that high-school coaches generally make less than minimum wage.
Why do you think Ohsaa job board is full of HC and assistant jobs every year. Staffs in the 90's and 00's never changed (I was young to know about 80's). Coaching high school football has become a year round commitment to stay competitive. When I was in high school- 1 week of camp the last week of school, and 1 week the week before 2 a days, with an open weight room all year round. Teachers are held to higher ridiculous standards, I don't know why anyone would coach anymore. Between family, teaching and having a life, I decided to completely step away from coaching anything and couldn't be happier. Like I said, guys that coach do it because they truly enjoy coaching, like someone that enjoys hunting, fishing, bowling, its simply a hobby.
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  #39  
Old 12-06-17, 09:14 AM
sapientia et veritas sapientia et veritas is offline
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Originally Posted by yj_runfan View Post
At least high school coaches are getting paid for all they do.
And it's a princely sum, lol.
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  #40  
Old 12-06-17, 09:15 AM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Drastic changes...

24/7 - 365, no more taking the summer off and waiting until July 31.

You are no longer JUST a coach. You now are dad, uncle, friend, fundraiser, community serverant, scheduler, recruiter, etc...

And although complainers have always been around the specialized parents grows every year. Too many parents are out of touch with reality and believe their boy will play football at OSU, basketball for the Lakers, and moonlight with the Yankees.

And the pool of coaches has dropped drastically due to all of these reasons.
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  #41  
Old 12-06-17, 09:29 AM
sapientia et veritas sapientia et veritas is offline
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Originally Posted by lightspeed84 View Post
I don't know why anyone would coach anymore.
Yeah. It's gotta be a love for it.

At Hartley, our coach has three state titles, but, inevitably, at every game, there's this one guy who stands up and screams suggestions and questions:
"PASS THE BALL"
"KICK IT DEEP"
"IS IT REALLY THAT HARD TO SEND IN THE PLAY?"

He also lets the refs know every game that they should be spotting the ball at the ball and not the knee that hit the ground.

He doesn't sit in my area anymore because I always do the hand clapping chant "He's Got Trophies" to get the rest of the crowd in on the fun to shut him up. Looking for a good chant to help out the refs if anyone has a suggestion.
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  #42  
Old 12-06-17, 10:45 AM
fridayguru fridayguru is offline
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I have played multiple sports on multiple levels and have coached for the better part of my life. Much of what Salesman says is very true for many many coaches.

However, there are a select few coaches out there that put winning above the kids. There are a select few coaches that put personal wants, needs, etc. above kids. And there are a select few coaches that are plain bad individuals that utilize their position of power to do as they wish. Certain communities put winning above the status of the student athlete and the coaches get away with things that the average individual should not.

I can appreciate the soap box. To this day, I say that you have 75% friends and 25% enemies the second you start coaching. And this remains with the kids and the adults to this day that I coached years ago.

I appreciate your post, Salesman. But please remember....not every community or coach has the integrity of you. In a few communities that I am close to....a few coaches aren't the people you describe. And it is good to make pointed comments in hopes that eyes are opened about said people.
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  #43  
Old 12-06-17, 12:40 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sapientia et veritas View Post
Yeah. It's gotta be a love for it.

At Hartley, our coach has three state titles, but, inevitably, at every game, there's this one guy who stands up and screams suggestions and questions:
"PASS THE BALL"
"KICK IT DEEP"
"IS IT REALLY THAT HARD TO SEND IN THE PLAY?"

He also lets the refs know every game that they should be spotting the ball at the ball and not the knee that hit the ground.

He doesn't sit in my area anymore because I always do the hand clapping chant "He's Got Trophies" to get the rest of the crowd in on the fun to shut him up. Looking for a good chant to help out the refs if anyone has a suggestion.
that is funny..
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  #44  
Old 12-06-17, 12:45 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
Drastic changes...

24/7 - 365, no more taking the summer off and waiting until July 31.

You are no longer JUST a coach. You now are dad, uncle, friend, fundraiser, community serverant, scheduler, recruiter, etc...

And although complainers have always been around the specialized parents grows every year. Too many parents are out of touch with reality and believe their boy will play football at OSU, basketball for the Lakers, and moonlight with the Yankees.

And the pool of coaches has dropped drastically due to all of these reasons.
another reason coaches have dropped is that the pay given to teachers has really changed over the years, NOW they don't need that EXTRA $2,000 to $5,0000 stipend that they use to get, I know at Minster there are only 2 fulltime teachers that coach football in the entire football program and not one teacher in the basketball program....lots of Community coaches throughout the WHOLE sports programs at our school.....

It is our School Adminstrations and School board's fault that this has happened
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  #45  
Old 12-06-17, 01:09 PM
lightspeed84 lightspeed84 is offline
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Originally Posted by bigkat View Post
another reason coaches have dropped is that the pay given to teachers has really changed over the years, NOW they don't need that EXTRA $2,000 to $5,0000 stipend that they use to get, I know at Minster there are only 2 fulltime teachers that coach football in the entire football program and not one teacher in the basketball program....lots of Community coaches throughout the WHOLE sports programs at our school.....

It is our School Adminstrations and School board's fault that this has happened
I don't view it as a problem, but has just natural progression. If you want more of us teachers to coach, don't make high school sports so demanding. Ohsaa could step in and really limit interaction outside of season. Teachers/Coaches have families, lives, hobbies and homes to take care of. I literally couldn't get anything accomplished during football season.
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  #46  
Old 12-06-17, 03:01 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by lightspeed84 View Post
I don't view it as a problem, but has just natural progression. If you want more of us teachers to coach, don't make high school sports so demanding. Ohsaa could step in and really limit interaction outside of season. Teachers/Coaches have families, lives, hobbies and homes to take care of. I literally couldn't get anything accomplished during football season.
but I also see it in clubs at school, back in 70's and 80's there were different clubs at school, but you have to have a teacher be a leader of the groups, don't see that anymore...the natural progression seems to be when the clock hits 3:15, the teachers are out the door..
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  #47  
Old 12-06-17, 03:50 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigkat View Post
another reason coaches have dropped is that the pay given to teachers has really changed over the years, NOW they don't need that EXTRA $2,000 to $5,0000 stipend that they use to get, I know at Minster there are only 2 fulltime teachers that coach football in the entire football program and not one teacher in the basketball program....lots of Community coaches throughout the WHOLE sports programs at our school.....

It is our School Adminstrations and School board's fault that this has happened
Actually that may be a good thing. Before you had teachers taking coaches jobs just for the extra cash and not really putting much effort into coaching. Now you have people in the community stepping up to take their place who want to coach for the love of coaching and not for the extra money.
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  #48  
Old 12-06-17, 04:01 PM
Daddy Daddy is offline
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A lot of reasonably talented HS athletes went to college to get social studies or physical education degrees, hoping to coach and make a difference for young people the way that many of their coaches helped them. Ten years ago, they couldn't find jobs teaching because teachers couldn't afford to retire. Now, they come out of college and into a profession that requires so very much more than what anyone was prepared for - to be a teacher right now, you have to really love it and want to be good at it first and foremost.

Teacher residency programs, high-stakes testing, and graduate education requirements have created circumstances that make it difficult for young teachers to also coach. By the time they've finished the residency requirements, they're 26 or 27, and looking to start a family. By the time they've started a family, they have to start looking into further education to keep their license. By the time they've got their master's degree, the state is changing the standards, and they have to recreate everything they've ever done in their classroom.

Coaching stipends are a pittance. Some people take the job to get an in for a teaching position. They fill the role for a few years, and move on. Their are very few career assistant coaches or JH head coaches anymore. New and different world. Not bad, just different.
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  #49  
Old 12-06-17, 05:20 PM
cincifbfan cincifbfan is offline
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Originally Posted by bigkat View Post
but I also see it in clubs at school, back in 70's and 80's there were different clubs at school, but you have to have a teacher be a leader of the groups, don't see that anymore...the natural progression seems to be when the clock hits 3:15, the teachers are out the door..
I disagree. Many teachers want to do clubs and lots of things; however, there is no demand from students.

Also, many teachers leave now because technology has made it just as easy to get work done at home as at school now. Lastly, how many teachers' spouses stayed at home 30-40 years ago. Not possible on a teacher salary now, especially with all the student loan debt that most didn't have in 70s and 80s. Back then you could pay for college with a summer job. Not the case anymore.
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  #50  
Old 12-06-17, 08:27 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Originally Posted by bigkat View Post
another reason coaches have dropped is that the pay given to teachers has really changed over the years, NOW they don't need that EXTRA $2,000 to $5,0000 stipend that they use to get, I know at Minster there are only 2 fulltime teachers that coach football in the entire football program and not one teacher in the basketball program....lots of Community coaches throughout the WHOLE sports programs at our school.....

It is our School Adminstrations and School board's fault that this has happened
I know all kinds of teachers that, sadly, still do things because it offers a stipend. Contrary to popular belief younger teachers are not making the same that their counterparts a generation made. And they didn't make gold.

The bottom line is it has become EXTREMELY demanding. On top of everything else mentioned in this thread the game is changing at a constant pace. You must constantly stay on top of new schemes to stay current. RPO's? Who'd a thunk offensive lines would show run and pull (forget high hat/low hat anymore), RB and QB show run but if the safety bites the QB pulls and passes to the TE? Heck, 8th grade teams run complex offenses these days.

And when you figure that stipend equates to .20 cents an hour, there are not many coaches in the business for money.

With all those demands and such crap money more and more decide to walk away and spend summers at the lake with their families. Priorities.
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  #51  
Old 12-07-17, 08:10 AM
lightspeed84 lightspeed84 is offline
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Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
I know all kinds of teachers that, sadly, still do things because it offers a stipend. Contrary to popular belief younger teachers are not making the same that their counterparts a generation made. And they didn't make gold.

The bottom line is it has become EXTREMELY demanding. On top of everything else mentioned in this thread the game is changing at a constant pace. You must constantly stay on top of new schemes to stay current. RPO's? Who'd a thunk offensive lines would show run and pull (forget high hat/low hat anymore), RB and QB show run but if the safety bites the QB pulls and passes to the TE? Heck, 8th grade teams run complex offenses these days.

And when you figure that stipend equates to .20 cents an hour, there are not many coaches in the business for money.

With all those demands and such crap money more and more decide to walk away and spend summers at the lake with their families. Priorities.
Its hard to justify staying till 630 in season, 20 hours on the weekends (even though most of the time you are meeting for the sake of meeting because the head coach/coaches hate their home life thats why you're there so long) and staying till 5 for off season for lifting and showing up everyday in the summer, with some weekends for 7 on 7. No thank you, I'll drive dump truck (make just as much half the time) and fish all summer and enjoy my fall nights/weekends with my family!
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  #52  
Old 12-09-17, 08:54 PM
BoomBoom BoomBoom is offline
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Originally Posted by Daddy View Post
A lot of reasonably talented HS athletes went to college to get social studies or physical education degrees, hoping to coach and make a difference for young people the way that many of their coaches helped them. Ten years ago, they couldn't find jobs teaching because teachers couldn't afford to retire. Now, they come out of college and into a profession that requires so very much more than what anyone was prepared for - to be a teacher right now, you have to really love it and want to be good at it first and foremost.

Teacher residency programs, high-stakes testing, and graduate education requirements have created circumstances that make it difficult for young teachers to also coach. By the time they've finished the residency requirements, they're 26 or 27, and looking to start a family. By the time they've started a family, they have to start looking into further education to keep their license. By the time they've got their master's degree, the state is changing the standards, and they have to recreate everything they've ever done in their classroom.

Coaching stipends are a pittance. Some people take the job to get an in for a teaching position. They fill the role for a few years, and move on. Their are very few career assistant coaches or JH head coaches anymore. New and different world. Not bad, just different.
So at a $200K / year package deal is it safe to say that the guy in Massillon will not be using Massillon as a "stepping stone" and leaving anytime soon?
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  #53  
Old 12-09-17, 09:26 PM
luvhsfb luvhsfb is offline
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Originally Posted by BoomBoom View Post
So at a $200K / year package deal is it safe to say that the guy in Massillon will not be using Massillon as a "stepping stone" and leaving anytime soon?
Not the norm at all
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  #54  
Old 12-10-17, 01:16 AM
BoomBoom BoomBoom is offline
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Originally Posted by luvhsfb View Post
Not the norm at all
no kidding. those people are insane.

abnormal is the perfect word. describes them to a T.
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  #55  
Old 12-10-17, 02:25 AM
serpico serpico is online now
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Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
I know all kinds of teachers that, sadly, still do things because it offers a stipend.
Why 'sadly'?
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  #56  
Old 12-10-17, 10:46 AM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Because it is the only reason they do it.
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  #57  
Old 12-10-17, 12:28 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by BoomBoom View Post
So at a $200K / year package deal is it safe to say that the guy in Massillon will not be using Massillon as a "stepping stone" and leaving anytime soon?
what did Moore cut your from the team?
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  #58  
Old 12-10-17, 12:38 PM
BoomBoom BoomBoom is offline
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Originally Posted by bigkat View Post
what did Moore cut your from the team?
what happened to all the 9th graders and 10th graders from 2015?

Moore didn't recruit anyone from the hallways at WHS that year?

He was still recruiting in Cincinnati? yeah in fact that's exactly what he did.

he spent all his time and effort recruiting a kid from Cincinnati and forgot to recruit at Washington High School.

By the way: Where's Thayer Munford going for Christmas break this year? Is he going to Cincinnati or is he going to his "adopted parents'" house ? You're one of the "insiders in the know" in Massillon, yes?

Did he abandon his mother in a crime infested apartment complex in Cincinnati permanently or what?

ROFLMAO

Last edited by BoomBoom; 12-10-17 at 12:58 PM.
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  #59  
Old 12-10-17, 01:07 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by BoomBoom View Post
what happened to all the 9th graders and 10th graders from 2015?

Moore didn't recruit anyone from the hallways at WHS that year?

He was still recruiting in Cincinnati? yeah in fact that's exactly what he did.

he spent all his time and effort recruiting a kid from Cincinnati and forgot to recruit at Washington High School.

By the way: Where's Thayer Munford going for Christmas break this year? Is he going to Cincinnati or is he going to his "adopted parents'" house ? You're one of the "insiders in the know" in Massillon, yes?

Did he abandon his mother in a crime infested apartment complex in Cincinnati permanently or what?

ROFLMAO
I'm from Minster......ROFLMAO..........did you play for Moore or your son?

by the way, Munford probabaly will be at the Cotton Bowl...
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