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  #1  
Old 12-05-17, 09:43 AM
longtime1sttime longtime1sttime is offline
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Some Toledo Public Schools to see improvements

"Toledo Public Schools board members approved a contract with Wood County’s Rudolph Libbe Inc. to install turf fields at Bowsher and Start stadiums and exterior lighting at the Scott, Waite, and Woodward high school stadiums."

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/201...-stadiums.html
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  #2  
Old 12-05-17, 09:55 AM
sapientia et veritas sapientia et veritas is offline
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Wonder what this will do for TPS report cards? Maybe they'll get a D+ in progress next September due to the turf.
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  #3  
Old 12-06-17, 07:15 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by sapientia et veritas View Post
Wonder what this will do for TPS report cards? Maybe they'll get a D+ in progress next September due to the turf.
you should find the rest of the phrase to which your id refers. snark should be good.

I really don't know much of the other fields but on Eastside, I don't believe it's reserved to the public schools or the schools for that matter and certainly not to the high schools. Bit out of touch on that, perhaps IB knows? It's more for the neighborhood and lighting is indeed needed. Not so convinced on the need for turf. I suppose so with soccer being considered a sport now.
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  #4  
Old 12-06-17, 08:20 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Great move by TPS IMO. I only wish they'd a made Mollenkopf artificial a couple years ago when they replaced the sod.

Regardless, for those that HAVE turf you understand the darn near instant advantages. Now, rather than having a giant chunk of real estate sitting on a campus that is unusable minus 5 Friday and Saturday's in the Fall you now have a nice field that will be used constantly and everyday. Drive by schools with turf from March to November (and even in between) and you will see football players, band, baseball players, softball, soccer, track, cc all kinds of kids utilizing it. It really is an amazing thing.

What came first? The chicken or the egg? In Toledo Whitmer and CCHS were the first to install turf (and upgrade/build awesome facilities). There is no wonder they are the top two programs in the area consistent since 2007. Whitmer is on their second turf. Then I'd point to the NLL. Who was the first to get turf? Perrysburg. Springfield. Then Napoleon and Northview. But it has helped each program along the way. Port Clinton got turf for crying out loud and went from basement dweller to playoffs.

Is it that the community and administration care enough about turf and facilities so therefore they also care about having a good football program or is it the turf that creates constant use and pride? Probably both. Nonetheless, great move by TPS IMO.
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  #5  
Old 12-07-17, 03:02 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Not so much chicken and the egg as it was availibity of the funding. TPS would have installed turf as and when did Whitmer and CCHS could they have afforded it, with maybe the exception of Waite. There was a compenent that wanted Waite to remain "old-school." I personally would rather they used the money to give the neighborhood track facilities instead of a soap stone driveway around a field and a bridge to run over.

Waite stadium remodel was partially tobacco money ( I believe) but also a big chunk alumni money. For those not aware, it is a stadium, not a field surrounded by aluminum stands. It is more costly to renovate, there was no money for the field. There still seems some stability issues with the walls, very visible huge and widening cracks on a wall over-looking the entrance. That seems like it could come down at an inopportune time.

I'd be more concerned they're (all the schools) doing as they have a history of doing, building things they cannot maintain. People who have never actually ran a business or who make their money in the political moment have that tendency, don't they. It's not lost (on me) that this announcement came AFTER the levy vote.
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  #6  
Old 12-07-17, 07:40 AM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Not so much chicken and the egg...
My reference in this regard was the question did the schools I cited in my original post already have success brewing because they were ambitious enough to install turf or did the turf help draw more kids and push success? Hence, probably a little of both.

Here is what I know. Oregon Clay installed turf two seasons ago and if you drive by on any summer day kids are using it to some capacity. Same can be said of Whitmer/Perrysburg/Springfield...

I do not know what it is but kids LOVE playing on field turf rather than grass? No stains? No dirt? Get to feel big-time? No joke, I have seen 5/6 different sports utilizing Whitmer's turf at the same time during the spring. Had it been grass it would have been too muddy after one use. Had it been grass the stadium would have been off limits.

Knowing TPS they will have all the gates locked.
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  #7  
Old 12-08-17, 09:48 AM
dappling dappling is offline
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Maumee is having turf installed this spring along with a stadium redo. Several big donors stepped up.
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  #8  
Old 12-08-17, 09:57 AM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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Originally Posted by sapientia et veritas View Post
Wonder what this will do for TPS report cards? Maybe they'll get a D+ in progress next September due to the turf.
Books and birth control might be a better way to improve the report cards...
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  #9  
Old 12-08-17, 09:58 AM
coachrios coachrios is offline
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Unfortunately, when the going was good, we were just given empty promises. Good to see the city improving facilities! Young men need hope for better days ahead!!
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  #10  
Old 12-08-17, 11:22 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Bigger problem is kids raised to get hope out of a field or a court instead of a book and adults, including school administrators and teachers, who are catering to athletes instead of their academics. They are looking at retaining "jobs" by lowering standards, not education by raising them, standards kids will follow when demanded and led by example and parents mostly want their kids to be held to.

How does announcing these fields and expenditures AFTER the levy say anything good about the district focus and leadership? Where in that announced plan did they mention maintenance, life cycle and replacement? A big misstep in my opinion when TPS still has schools, serving the poorest with outdated and poorly maintained educational materials and facilities.
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  #11  
Old 12-08-17, 12:08 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is online now
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It will not make any difference in the quality of football played on the field.
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  #12  
Old 12-08-17, 01:16 PM
coachrios coachrios is offline
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I know I'm just an old curmudgeon now, but as a product of TPS, I was accepted to Johns Hopkins University before deciding that football at John Carroll University was the preferred route for my future. We have indeed lowered standards way too often, but the best of the best no longer attend the public city schools and we have created a downward spiral. Through the voucher system and charter schools, we have offered our best students the "opportunity" for greener pastures, which in turn, has diminished not just the athletic talent, but the academic talent in public city schools, such as TPS. Raising the standard should be expected, but just the culture and the abilities go far deeper. Having lived the TPS life for the first 42 years of my existence on this planet, I am all for seeing us raise the level of expectations in the classroom, in the community and on our playing fields! We spent the last three seasons at RHS (2008-2010) practicing on a 40 yard field that we spent most of practice throwing huge rocks off of and into the ditch on the sideline! The life of new construction LOL Still bleed RED and WHITE!! GO RED!!! Hopefully, the Rams and the city league will get things going again!
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  #13  
Old 12-08-17, 02:08 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
It will not make any difference in the quality of football played on the field.
Did ok things for Woodward.

Hey East, you know that bum in the local diner whose life is a dumpster fire but has an answer for everything? You know, the guy who complains about potholes yet doesn't want to pay a dime in taxes? If the sun is out it is too bright, if it is cloudy he'll complain about it being dreary. The guy who talks about smelling BS at a 1989 Clyde vs. Perrysburg game. All the while the waitress humors him and nods while not really listening? The guy will sit there all day stinking up the joint buying nothing more than a .30 cent cup of coffee.

I found him.
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  #14  
Old 12-08-17, 02:15 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Facilities make a big difference. Yes, sadly, athletic facilities. TPS needs to retain its best and brightest. Facilities' help achieve that.

What Coach Garber and his staff are doing at Woodward is nothing short of special. I know for a FACT there are 3-4 if not more kids on last years Polar Bear team who CAME BACK from one of the BIG 3 Catholic schools. There are several more that chose not to leave. Facilities and a good and caring staff mean everything.
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  #15  
Old 12-08-17, 03:55 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is online now
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Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
Did ok things for Woodward.
Five wins over teams with a combined record of 7-43. A real football powerhouse.

Meanwhile the MAC teams have 38 state championships and zero artificial turf fields. Gosh, how do they overcome such adversity?

I'll have a whole wheat donut with my coffee please.
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  #16  
Old 12-08-17, 04:19 PM
tcgobucks tcgobucks is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
Five wins over teams with a combined record of 7-43. A real football powerhouse.

Meanwhile the MAC teams have 38 state championships and zero artificial turf fields. Gosh, how do they overcome such adversity?

I'll have a whole wheat donut with my coffee please.
Yep, good example. Comparing small-town rural West Central Ohio to the Toledo Public schools is not a fair comparison. Picture someone starting Mercer Central Catholic right in the middle of MAC country, with top notch facilities, better academics and give them the top 3 athletes in each sport from each of the MAC schools and you'll get an idea what the TPS schools are facing
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  #17  
Old 12-09-17, 10:26 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by tcgobucks View Post
Yep, good example. Comparing small-town rural West Central Ohio to the Toledo Public schools is not a fair comparison. Picture someone starting Mercer Central Catholic right in the middle of MAC country, with top notch facilities, better academics and give them the top 3 athletes in each sport from each of the MAC schools and you'll get an idea what the TPS schools are facing
Without disrupting your point, I'm going to challenge the boldface. Let's get back to the root of this, people left the "publics" because of who was coming in. Not because the teachers were "less good." I recall both Rogers and Bowsher having perfect SAT students. LONG list of accomplished grads of all the other schools.

Lower academic performers is different than "lower academics." If one system is offerring extensive special ed, and the other isn't. Who has the higher academics? If one system is offerring extensive skills trades and the other isn't, who has the higher academics?

It get's into a pizzing merry-go-round. Public blaming private. Private blaming public. Their goals aren't ideology. It's money.


I get back to my original point. Announcing these fields AFTER the levy speaks to the character of those in charge, REGARDLESS they are a good idea or not.

Checks and balances are a joke.

Last edited by eastisbest; 12-09-17 at 03:50 PM.
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  #18  
Old 12-09-17, 10:37 AM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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I like the idea of upgrading facilities but in the context of why and when I'd agree.
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  #19  
Old 12-09-17, 10:50 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is online now
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Originally Posted by tcgobucks View Post
Yep, good example. Comparing small-town rural West Central Ohio to the Toledo Public schools is not a fair comparison. Picture someone starting Mercer Central Catholic right in the middle of MAC country, with top notch facilities, better academics and give them the top 3 athletes in each sport from each of the MAC schools and you'll get an idea what the TPS schools are facing
TPS football was bad when TCC was mediocre. TCC is not the problem.
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  #20  
Old 12-10-17, 02:53 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
TPS football was bad when TCC was mediocre. TCC is not the problem.
When TCC was mediocre, SJJ and SFS were good. TPS has never in decades been "great" in terms of statewide football so not sure where you got your crabs from. They've sent kids on to major programs but the city hasn't been a "football" city since the 40s and somewhat 50s.

No one else seems to have difficulty being open with the reasons behind their opinion. Maybe you'd seem less the girl on her first period if you just stated straight out, what you think the problem AND causes are?
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  #21  
Old 12-10-17, 08:00 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is online now
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
No one else seems to have difficulty being open with the reasons behind their opinion. Maybe you'd seem less the girl on her first period if you just stated straight out, what you think the problem AND causes are?
Is it possible to have a conversation without the insults?

I've coached in scrimmages or games against Bowsher, Libby, Scott, Start and TCC. I don't have anything against the public schools in the City League, I wish they were better. Their success would reflect well on all football in northwest Ohio. But they are not successful.

My point is that new football fields, like new buildings, will not solve the problems of Toledo Public Schools. There have been a lot of "reforms" in Ohio public education in the past few decades. None of these have solved the problems on TPS and none of them will. We've spent a lot of tax dollars and wasted a lot of time, but haven't solved any problems.

Those buildings and fields sure look nice though. Good luck with that.
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  #22  
Old 12-10-17, 10:42 AM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
We've spent a lot of tax dollars and wasted a lot of time, but haven't solved any problems.
I'm all ears on hearing your solutions?
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  #23  
Old 12-10-17, 11:30 AM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
I'm all ears on hearing your solutions?
There is really only one good solution to fix bad schools and that is have better parents. All the money, programs and new building can only very slightly improve things. If mom AND dad are not setting high expectations, reviewing there kids work, making sure they do their homework and go to school everyday there is little the school system can do.
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  #24  
Old 12-10-17, 01:00 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Originally Posted by CC Track Fan View Post
There is really only one good solution to fix bad schools and that is have better parents. All the money, programs and new building can only very slightly improve things. If mom AND dad are not setting high expectations, reviewing there kids work, making sure they do their homework and go to school everyday there is little the school system can do.
I agree but that is like saying the only good fix to bankruptcy is having more money.

I'd be curious to hear chs1971's solutions.
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  #25  
Old 12-10-17, 01:17 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is online now
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Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
I'm all ears on hearing your solutions?
I wish I could solve the problems. I would be an important and wealthy person.
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  #26  
Old 12-10-17, 01:45 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
Is it possible to have a conversation without the insults?
.
You've built up a reputation of being only that. You expect other in return? Be civil, people will respond similarly.

I do not suspect the fields are designed to solve all the ills of the inner cities or the schools. YOU brought that up. They're meant to provide a recreational outlet. Good plan, bad plan? Different discussion.
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  #27  
Old 12-10-17, 02:07 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is online now
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
You've built up a reputation of being only that. You expect other in return? Be civil, people will respond similarly.
I never called anyone a little girl. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings.


Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
I do not suspect the fields are designed to solve all the ills of the inner cities or the schools. YOU brought that up.
No I didn't. I said the new fields are no more likely to solve the athletic problems than the new buildings will solve the academic problems.
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  #28  
Old 12-10-17, 09:01 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
I wish I could solve the problems. I would be an important and wealthy person.
No ideas at all? Nothing? I figured as much.
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  #29  
Old 12-10-17, 09:47 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
I said the new fields are no more likely to solve the athletic problems than the new buildings will solve the academic problems.
Lighting presently looks like a second grader's smile.You think better ligthing won't solve problems?

Quote:
TPS Director of Athletics Ed Kaser said the biggest benefit of converting to turf is that it allows football and soccer teams to practice on the same fields they compete
You're doubting this also now? Based upon? Not speaking for other sides of town but Eastside kids practice on a groundhog pasture surrounded by hobo trash and worse because the stadium needs be reserved for high school football, soccer and I don't know what level that is playing on saturdays but several games there also. You don't think the improvement in the basic equipment and increased access to practice facilities to learn these games will help the "quality?"
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  #30  
Old 12-11-17, 07:38 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is online now
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I'm sure that TPS will soon be regional powers in football and soccer. Congratulations.
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