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  #1321  
Old 12-03-17, 11:05 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Nothing wrong with the rule....... Lots wrong with the timing.

I don't see this being addressed (no need to in my opinion) on a national level. I hope it is addressed on the state level. however.
I don't understand what you mean by "timing"? Did the refs not follow the rule last night and the clock should have just run out?

Folks seem to be saying that the ref should have started the clock at the "ready" but wouldn't that enable a team to line up with 3 seconds left and spike the ball (it was 2nd down) preserving a FG try or the ability to take another shot at the end zone? There is no way a team should be allowed to run another play under these circumstances UNLESS the defense commits a penalty.
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  #1322  
Old 12-03-17, 11:18 AM
afwpatfire afwpatfire is online now
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The only way to fix the “timing” issue is with a run off. Other than that there is no guarantee that a referee will use the right discretion.
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  #1323  
Old 12-03-17, 11:55 AM
Reddengineer Reddengineer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
I don't understand what you mean by "timing"? Did the refs not follow the rule last night and the clock should have just run out?

Folks seem to be saying that the ref should have started the clock at the "ready" but wouldn't that enable a team to line up with 3 seconds left and spike the ball (it was 2nd down) preserving a FG try or the ability to take another shot at the end zone? There is no way a team should be allowed to run another play under these circumstances UNLESS the defense commits a penalty.
Ready for play indicates readiness of officials and ball, not the teams. Now they could conceivably attempt to be lined up by the time the referee signals, which is what one would do in a two minute drill situation. Unless you're already in that mode, don't know it would work that way.
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  #1324  
Old 12-03-17, 12:40 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
I don't understand what you mean by "timing"? Did the refs not follow the rule last night and the clock should have just run out?
Below is a quote from the NFHS Football Officials' Manual......


"Game officials must have a football sense which supersedes the technical
application of the rules so that the game goes smoothly. Game officials are expected to exercise good judgment in applying the rules."


This quote applies to ignoring a player in motion advancing towards the Line of Scrimmage prior to the snap when that team that team is losing 42-0 with three minutes to play.

It can be applied here as well.
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  #1325  
Old 12-03-17, 12:42 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
Seems this rule is in need of a change.

Once a linemen is set, hand on the ground or not, they should remain that way.
Maybe, but that is not the rule at any level of football. It seems that you might be trying to correct a problem that does not exist.
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  #1326  
Old 12-03-17, 12:44 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afwpatfire View Post
The only way to fix the “timing” issue is with a run off. Other than that there is no guarantee that a referee will use the right discretion.
There was a rule change made this year allowing for the offended team to have the clock start on the snap after an accepted penalty if it occurred inside the last two minutes of either half.

The "run-off" penalty isn't going to happen anytime soon.


***Edited to correct copy and paste error****

Last edited by AllSports12; 12-05-17 at 10:39 PM.
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  #1327  
Old 12-03-17, 11:16 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Below is a quote from the NFHS Football Officials' Manual......


"Game officials must have a football sense which supersedes the technical
application of the rules so that the game goes smoothly. Game officials are expected to exercise good judgment in applying the rules."


This quote applies to ignoring a player in motion advancing towards the Line of Scrimmage prior to the snap when that team that team is losing 42-0 with three minutes to play.

It can be applied here as well.
In that case are we in agreement that the officials should have let the clock run out and then announce the sideline warning?

Because while the official is telling everyone it's a sideline warning the offense can do one of two things here:

* they can line up and when the ref signals "ready" hike & spike the ball or

* Hike the ball before the line is set and draw an illegal procedure or delay of game penalty which still will give them time to hike & spike after the ball is set with the penalty walk off.

So I'm fine with giving the officials the discretion here but would expect that in the off season that play will be discussed at length with officials being schooled on what discretion they should use in this type of situation.
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  #1328  
Old 12-05-17, 12:18 AM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Below is a quote from the NFHS Football Officials' Manual......


"Game officials must have a football sense which supersedes the technical
application of the rules so that the game goes smoothly. Game officials are expected to exercise good judgment in applying the rules."


This quote applies to ignoring a player in motion advancing towards the Line of Scrimmage prior to the snap when that team that team is losing 42-0 with three minutes to play.

It can be applied here as well.
This sounds like what the officials should have done. What made this more egregious is that it was only a warning. This reminded me of Jason Kidd "spilling" his drink on the court to get an extra timeout in the NBA.
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  #1329  
Old 12-05-17, 12:21 AM
coltfan76 coltfan76 is offline
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So for those that watched the debacle in Cincinnati tonight. What is the logic of not letting a team accept both a personal foul and unsportsmanlike penalty on the same play?
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  #1330  
Old 12-05-17, 06:56 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coltfan76 View Post
So for those that watched the debacle in Cincinnati tonight. What is the logic of not letting a team accept both a personal foul and unsportsmanlike penalty on the same play?
NFL rules do not provide for that option on this play.
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  #1331  
Old 12-05-17, 08:12 AM
coltfan76 coltfan76 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
NFL rules do not provide for that option on this play.
I guess I wasn't clear. My apologies. Why is the rule that way? If you commit a personal foul and an unsportsmanlike on the same play, you should have to pay for both.
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  #1332  
Old 12-05-17, 11:35 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coltfan76 View Post
I guess I wasn't clear. My apologies. Why is the rule that way? If you commit a personal foul and an unsportsmanlike on the same play, you should have to pay for both.
It's professional sports..... Billions of dollars are involved.

A 30 yard penalty isn't good for the offense, which isn't good for scoring, which isn't good for TV ratings, which isn't good for TV contracts, which isn't good for.... etc...

Whether or not you or I agree with it, (I would agree with you) that's the reality.

Follow the money.
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  #1333  
Old 12-05-17, 12:57 PM
TheGreenMan TheGreenMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
This sounds like what the officials should have done. What made this more egregious is that it was only a warning. This reminded me of Jason Kidd "spilling" his drink on the court to get an extra timeout in the NBA.
First sideline warning is always a warning. To cloud things even further, officials are told that if they do not enforce their sidelines they will no longer work play-off games. I have never seen anything other than you'd better enforce keeping coaches off the field and out of the white during a play.
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  #1334  
Old 12-05-17, 01:17 PM
coltfan76 coltfan76 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
It's professional sports..... Billions of dollars are involved.

A 30 yard penalty isn't good for the offense, which isn't good for scoring, which isn't good for TV ratings, which isn't good for TV contracts, which isn't good for.... etc...

Whether or not you or I agree with it, (I would agree with you) that's the reality.

Follow the money.
I assumed that. Thanks for answering.
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  #1335  
Old 12-10-17, 05:21 PM
USA70PP USA70PP is online now
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Watching tape delay of West Virginia HS SSAC championship games. Just had pass interference call in the end zone on a play from the 3 or 2 yard line. The ball was moved to the 1 yard line and called as 3rd down. Thought PI in the EZ would have been an automatic first down.
Thought I'd edit this, since it occurred to me that the announcers may have called it pass interference when the real call had been defensive holding. Could that have explained the 3rd down call?
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  #1336  
Old 12-10-17, 07:00 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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PI has not been an automatic first down in HS for a few years now. EZ foul would not be any different.
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  #1337  
Old 12-10-17, 07:10 PM
USA70PP USA70PP is online now
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Thanks. Didn't know that.
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  #1338  
Old 12-10-17, 11:11 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USA70PP View Post
Thanks. Didn't know that.
The rule changed prior to the 2013 season.
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  #1339  
Old 12-11-17, 01:03 PM
reggieDunlop reggieDunlop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USA70PP View Post
Watching tape delay of West Virginia HS SSAC championship games. Just had pass interference call in the end zone on a play from the 3 or 2 yard line. The ball was moved to the 1 yard line and called as 3rd down. Thought PI in the EZ would have been an automatic first down.
Thought I'd edit this, since it occurred to me that the announcers may have called it pass interference when the real call had been defensive holding. Could that have explained the 3rd down call?
Also DPI in the End Zone does not automatically put the ball on the 1 yard line. It is a 15-yard penalty, subject to the half the distance rule if inside the 30.
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