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  #91  
Old 10-11-18, 11:54 AM
hammer89 hammer89 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Well ultimately, it's a shame. And given how much it took to make sense of it here (all reasonably non-judgemental for once) I guess these multiple places to attend school does make the obvious, not obvious. I would expect this to hit urban areas more?


Warning sent but I doubt this is the only place making this mistake. I'm presuming a mistake and not a warning ignored? At some point if they find this "mistake" is prevalent in other areas for similar reasons, I hope some minor amnesty comes to play. If they were warned and continued, sure heads roll.



Who figured it out?
According to a statement from CMSD themselves, they were warned in August of this year before the season began and still didnít follow the rule, which again, they helped write themselves.
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  #92  
Old 10-11-18, 12:02 PM
SECfb SECfb is offline
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Originally Posted by Cali_Eagle View Post
You bet they are. Glenville will never forfeit any games until such time as the streak ends with an actual loss on the field. They might get any penalty in the rule book until that time but a forfeit of a game won't be one of them. Look at last season (or two years ago) when they were going to have to forfeit games, that got changed to something else PDQ. JMHO.
Either give the penality out properly, or dont give it at all. Inelgible playets in the games they played in should be forfeits.. automatically. And then there would be probably no playoffs anyway. If there not going tp give the forfeits, then Glenvilke should be participating in in the playoffs
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  #93  
Old 10-11-18, 12:09 PM
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EagleFan EagleFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
I was intrigued by this so I looked it up on the OHSAA website.

**Students Participating Per State Law (HomeEducated,
Community/STEM, Non-Public)
Even if these students and his/her parents DO live in your district, they should be counted as Tier 1 NonEnrolled as a consequence for not being included in
the Initial Enrollment Count (i.e. EMIS).

So basically, home schooled students count as 1 for CB, which is kinda weird because they technically reside in the district that they play sports. )
Maybe not so weird since the kid was not in the base enrollment number. So net effect only counts as one.
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  #94  
Old 10-11-18, 12:21 PM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by EagleFan View Post
Maybe not so weird since the kid was not in the base enrollment number. So net effect only counts as one.
True. I guess it balances out in the end either way.
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  #95  
Old 10-11-18, 01:18 PM
NeoFB18 NeoFB18 is offline
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Did Glenville lose a number of players going forward? If so, that could mean some closer games and maybe a loss for Glenville. Doesn't look like it will effect the playoffs much outside of Euclid if they are close.
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  #96  
Old 10-11-18, 01:52 PM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by NeoFB18 View Post
Did Glenville lose a number of players going forward? If so, that could mean some closer games and maybe a loss for Glenville. Doesn't look like it will effect the playoffs much outside of Euclid if they are close.
We won't know the exact number until next year probably, but all of the articles say 13 players are playing at Glenville that should be playing at other schools: 10 at John Hay, 2 at Collinwood and 1 other that they couldn't say. There's no mention if these players are "star players," normal starters, JV, grade level, etc, so we won't really know for a while.
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  #97  
Old 10-11-18, 04:32 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammer89 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest

Who figured it out?
According to a statement from CMSD themselves, they were warned in August of this year before the season began and still didnít follow the rule, which again, they helped write themselves.

Kind of takes a lot of decision making out of the punishment, doesn't it. I like their Super, Gordan. He did a heck of a job here in Toledo and I guess also down in Olentangy. Got to like a guy whose heart is with the most disadvantaged but this has to shape up.
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  #98  
Old 10-11-18, 06:11 PM
Cali_Eagle Cali_Eagle is offline
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Originally Posted by SECfb View Post
Either give the penality out properly, or dont give it at all. Ineligible players in the games they played in should be forfeits.. automatically. And then there would be probably no playoffs anyway. If there not going to give the forfeits, then Glenville should be participating in in the playoffs
I don't disagree that all penalties given should be given out even handedly regardless of who is being penalized or what the circumstances are. I was simply stating that Glenville was given forfeits a year or two back, screamed/complained loudly and the forfeits were cancelled and some other penalty was given instead.
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  #99  
Old 10-12-18, 06:10 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by SECfb View Post
Either give the penality out properly, or dont give it at all. Inelgible playets in the games they played in should be forfeits.. automatically. And then there would be probably no playoffs anyway. If there not going tp give the forfeits, then Glenvilke should be participating in in the playoffs
Technically these players are eligible to play football. Your issue of ineligible players should be forced to forfeit games holds no water here. These students did not violate any transfer rules and they were in good academic standing to play football. They are eligible to play football per OHSAA rules. They were incorrectly assigned to Glenville for football, when they should have been playing elsewhere. This should not fall on the kids IMO, maybe Ted Ginn, but it shouldn't be on the kids. If you are a 14 year old kid going to Ginn Academy and the "legend" Ted Ginn comes to you and says come play football for me, you aren't going to say no. CMSD administration needs to put Ted Ginn in his place and make sure this doesn't happen again, or it more than likely will result in forfeits.
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  #100  
Old 10-12-18, 07:37 AM
SECfb SECfb is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
Technically these players are eligible to play football. Your issue of ineligible players should be forced to forfeit games holds no water here. These students did not violate any transfer rules and they were in good academic standing to play football. They are eligible to play football per OHSAA rules. They were incorrectly assigned to Glenville for football, when they should have been playing elsewhere. This should not fall on the kids IMO, maybe Ted Ginn, but it shouldn't be on the kids. If you are a 14 year old kid going to Ginn Academy and the "legend" Ted Ginn comes to you and says come play football for me, you aren't going to say no. CMSD administration needs to put Ted Ginn in his place and make sure this doesn't happen again, or it more than likely will result in forfeits.
Ok. If the kids are technically elgible, and there should be no forfeits, then Glenville should be elgible for the playoffs then too. Not by letting the kids participate in the playoffs is hurting the kids. Should have just gave Ginn, or the administration some other penality.
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  #101  
Old 10-12-18, 08:22 AM
LICKING COUNTY FAN LICKING COUNTY FAN is offline
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Did Glenville have any players suspended after the brawl from the game last week?
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  #102  
Old 10-12-18, 09:24 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SECfb View Post
Ok. If the kids are technically elgible, and there should be no forfeits, then Glenville should be elgible for the playoffs then too. Not by letting the kids participate in the playoffs is hurting the kids. Should have just gave Ginn, or the administration some other penality.
The thing is, they are letting the kids finish the season. If they had to forfeit wins, then they basically would be forfeiting the entire season or those 13 kids wouldnt be able to finish the year. By letting the kids finish out the season, they aren't punishing the kids necessarily, they are letting them finish the season but not letting them advance to the playoffs. Would you rather have Glenville not let those 13 kids play the rest of the games? They probably wouldn't make the playoffs anyways if they lost that many kids.

Unfortunately, I don't think there is any sort of precedent for this situation, so OHSAA tried to find a middle ground here. They are letting the kids finish the season at Glenville, but no playoffs. IMO it's a pretty fair punishment. The other option is doing what they did to John Marshall and not letting the kids finish the year and forfeit wins, which in that case they wouldnt make the playoffs anyways.

I think by letting them finish out the year and then sorting out where the kids should be playing in the future is the best option rather than forfeiting wins and such. The kids didn't really do anything wrong here, this falls squarely on admin.

What other penalty would you have like to seen?
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  #103  
Old 10-12-18, 11:29 AM
NeoFB18 NeoFB18 is offline
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Originally Posted by LICKING COUNTY FAN View Post
Did Glenville have any players suspended after the brawl from the game last week?
There was a brawl last week? How bad and how many players involved?
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  #104  
Old 10-12-18, 11:52 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoFB18 View Post
There was a brawl last week? How bad and how many players involved?
There's literally zero mention of a brawl in any article about last week's game.....
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  #105  
Old 10-12-18, 01:16 PM
Sykotyk Sykotyk is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
There's literally zero mention of a brawl in any article about last week's game.....
I was at the game. Have some pictures of it. Whole John Adams side at probably half the Glenville side. Included some fans. Police were called. I left after it started.

Plus, I wouldn't trust the game recaps, they all got the score wrong. It was 39-18. John Adams scored a TD on final play with no kick. It was 39-12 after 3.


Last edited by Sykotyk; 10-12-18 at 01:32 PM.
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  #106  
Old 10-12-18, 02:33 PM
DHS1 DHS1 is offline
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So if Glenville finishes the season with players that are actually ineligible, is it fair to the teams they beat, who are playing by the rules, and maybe that team doesn’t make the playoffs. They make these rules for a reason. They just don’t administer them equally. If one team forfeits because of these players, then all should do the same. To much political crap by a certain few. We hear about punishing the kids. How about all the kids who do play by the rules that will be affected. Way more than those 13
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  #107  
Old 10-12-18, 05:49 PM
jeroe jeroe is offline
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Originally Posted by DHS1 View Post
So if Glenville finishes the season with players that are actually ineligible, is it fair to the teams they beat, who are playing by the rules, and maybe that team doesnít make the playoffs. They make these rules for a reason. They just donít administer them equally. If one team forfeits because of these players, then all should do the same. To much political crap by a certain few. We hear about punishing the kids. How about all the kids who do play by the rules that will be affected. Way more than those 13
You are argument is sound, but none of the 3 opponents left are making the playoffs. They have a total of 7 wins between them and the teams they beat had a total of 7 wins between them. 1 of the opponents also had the same issue and were penalized by administering forfeits. The crazy thing is 4 schools had players that should be playing else where. Guess where they should have been playing. The other schools that had kids that should have been elsewhere! I can't make this up.
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  #108  
Old 10-12-18, 06:25 PM
eaglepride eaglepride is offline
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Originally Posted by NeoFB18 View Post
There was a brawl last week? How bad and how many players involved?
The witness on the news said it was Glenville with 50 kids against John Adams 25 kids....
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  #109  
Old 10-12-18, 10:23 PM
DHS1 DHS1 is offline
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My point is, it’s not just those last three teams that those wins with ineligible players affects. All those games would have been losses for Glenville and would change the harbin points for everyone. I think it’s unfair when they’ve been warned. Punish them and it will stop
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  #110  
Old 10-12-18, 10:34 PM
NeoFB18 NeoFB18 is offline
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Originally Posted by eaglepride View Post
The witness on the news said it was Glenville with 50 kids against John Adams 25 kids....
I'm guessing it doesn't matter that much but were any kids suspended?
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  #111  
Old 10-13-18, 01:42 AM
jeroe jeroe is offline
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Originally Posted by DHS1 View Post
My point is, itís not just those last three teams that those wins with ineligible players affects. All those games would have been losses for Glenville and would change the harbin points for everyone. I think itís unfair when theyíve been warned. Punish them and it will stop
I understand your argument. But a team who would gets 5 L2 points, due to a forfeit from one of there opponents, opponents, if that knocks out a team who received all of their L2s legitimately it is no better. There is no right answer here. The big issue is one school had forfeits and Glenville does not. They shoulb be consistent.
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  #112  
Old 10-13-18, 10:20 AM
Findy15 Findy15 is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
Sounds like these kids were all attending Ginn Academy. Ginn Academy doesn't have a football program (It's basically an all boys school for at-risk kids, kinda like the LeBron James school that opened in Akron). Cardale Jones is the most "famous" player that attended Ginn Academy. Anyone that lives in any part of Cleveland can attend Ginn Academy. However, technically you are only allowed to play sports for the area that you live in. Many kids that lived in the areas of John Hay, Collinwood, Whitney Young and other areas with terrible football programs all went to Ginn Academy so that they could just play for Glenville (can't really blame them). It's kinda like if you are home schooled, you can't just pick and choose what school you want to play sports, you're supposed to play for your home district or home high school. So if a student attends Ginn Academy but lives in the neighborhood that attends Whitney Young, they're supposed to play for WY.

Glenville and Ginn Academy aren't too far apart, so a lot of the boys that attend Ginn Academy already live in the neighborhood that would go to Glenville anyways. Unfortunately, a small number of players dont, and that's what screwed them. I'm sure this has been happening for years though, not sure why it's being investigated now.

Hope this helps
This has been going on before the Ginn Academy opened. Because of the feel good effect, a Cleveland public school winning, the illegal recruiting was over looked. It was explained in the past that the City of Cleveland had open enrollment, if you lived in the city you could attend any school in the district. Apparently not! Athletes lived with Ted Ginn, moving from outside of the Cleveland area. No other coach/school could have not been penalized for this. This has been a long time coming. The school is also being evaluated for "a lack of administrative responsibility and institutional control for failure to implement these business rules. Why this didn't happen 15 years ago is beyond me?
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  #113  
Old 10-13-18, 06:12 PM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is online now
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Originally Posted by Findy15 View Post
This has been going on before the Ginn Academy opened. Because of the feel good effect, a Cleveland public school winning, the illegal recruiting was over looked. It was explained in the past that the City of Cleveland had open enrollment, if you lived in the city you could attend any school in the district. Apparently not! Athletes lived with Ted Ginn, moving from outside of the Cleveland area. No other coach/school could have not been penalized for this. This has been a long time coming. The school is also being evaluated for "a lack of administrative responsibility and institutional control for failure to implement these business rules. Why this didn't happen 15 years ago is beyond me?
CMSD has statewide open enrollment (they also have intra-district open enrollment, which is a separate thing and really only applies to districts with multiple high schools). The statewide open-enrollment means that legally any student from any part of the state can enroll in a CMSD school. They've had this for at least a decade, probably much longer.
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