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  #61  
Old 10-10-18, 04:41 AM
E.S. Furgeson E.S. Furgeson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erdna View Post
Just change the name to Arch Bishop Ginn Academy or Cardinal Ginn Academy and then you can get any player in the state...problem solved!


Well played. You could have old, fat, half drunk alumni go to CYO games and locL middle school contests.


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  #62  
Old 10-10-18, 07:20 AM
scbuckeye99 scbuckeye99 is offline
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As an athletic admin in south carolina we have this same rule. If a kid attends school A but lives in school B's attendance zone they can plan football at school B if school A does not field football. We also have this rule for Home School children who don't have sanctioned athletics, they can play for the school they would've gone to have not they been home schooled. Down here this sort of rule applies MOSTLY to charter school kids like the ones at Ginn Academy.
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  #63  
Old 10-10-18, 08:09 AM
Sykotyk Sykotyk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scbuckeye99 View Post
As an athletic admin in south carolina we have this same rule. If a kid attends school A but lives in school B's attendance zone they can plan football at school B if school A does not field football. We also have this rule for Home School children who don't have sanctioned athletics, they can play for the school they would've gone to have not they been home schooled. Down here this sort of rule applies MOSTLY to charter school kids like the ones at Ginn Academy.
Pennsylvania and West Virginia have that same rule for homeschool kids. No need for teams like Columbus Crusaders and the like in those states.
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  #64  
Old 10-10-18, 11:37 AM
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It appears the home school kids do not count in the base enrollment, but what tier do they count in the CB adjustments?
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  #65  
Old 10-10-18, 11:42 AM
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AD’s in the large districts need to be on top of the rules. Rules for non OHSAA / charter schools (Cleveland Ginn) differ from OHSAA schools that don’t offer a specific sport (Cleveland MLK).
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  #66  
Old 10-10-18, 11:56 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleFan View Post
It appears the home school kids do not count in the base enrollment, but what tier do they count in the CB adjustments?
I was intrigued by this so I looked it up on the OHSAA website.

**Students Participating Per State Law (HomeEducated,
Community/STEM, Non-Public)
Even if these students and his/her parents DO live in your district, they should be counted as Tier 1 NonEnrolled as a consequence for not being included in
the Initial Enrollment Count (i.e. EMIS).

So basically, home schooled students count as 1 for CB, which is kinda weird because they technically reside in the district that they play sports.

For what it's worth, Glenville has a CB number of 16, which probably means that 16 of their football players attend Ginn Academy (or another Cleveland HS but live in the Glenville area, probably Ginn though)
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  #67  
Old 10-10-18, 11:59 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Glenville reports 317 boys with a CB number of 16. Surprisingly, JFK actually has a higher CB number than Glenville for football. John Marshall's CB number is 17
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  #68  
Old 10-10-18, 01:43 PM
erdna erdna is offline
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Originally Posted by tom 48 View Post
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Truth hurts....
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  #69  
Old 10-10-18, 02:13 PM
JJBulldog JJBulldog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erdna View Post
Just change the name to Arch Bishop Ginn Academy or Cardinal Ginn Academy and then you can get any player in the state...problem solved!
Either that or hire Massillon's attorney Lee Plakas. Hes undefeated against the OHSAA LOL
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  #70  
Old 10-10-18, 03:28 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Well ultimately, it's a shame. And given how much it took to make sense of it here (all reasonably non-judgemental for once) I guess these multiple places to attend school does make the obvious, not obvious. I would expect this to hit urban areas more?


Warning sent but I doubt this is the only place making this mistake. I'm presuming a mistake and not a warning ignored? At some point if they find this "mistake" is prevalent in other areas for similar reasons, I hope some minor amnesty comes to play. If they were warned and continued, sure heads roll.



Who figured it out?
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  #71  
Old 10-10-18, 03:55 PM
the123kidz the123kidz is online now
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Well ultimately, it's a shame. And given how much it took to make sense of it here (all reasonably non-judgemental for once) I guess these multiple places to attend school does make the obvious, not obvious. I would expect this to hit urban areas more?


Warning sent but I doubt this is the only place making this mistake. I'm presuming a mistake and not a warning ignored? At some point if they find this "mistake" is prevalent in other areas for similar reasons, I hope some minor amnesty comes to play. If they were warned and continued, sure heads roll.



Who figured it out?
Someone had to have filed a complaint against them. They do not just randomly investigate programs.
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  #72  
Old 10-10-18, 04:42 PM
EagleSE EagleSE is offline
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May have been mentioned before, but it's interesting there was no mention of forfeits for Glenville HS, but it seems that John Marshall forfeited 2 games for the same infraction.
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  #73  
Old 10-10-18, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by EagleSE View Post
May have been mentioned before, but it's interesting there was no mention of forfeits for Glenville HS, but it seems that John Marshall forfeited 2 games for the same infraction.
Are they trying to protect Glenville's Senate League winning streak?
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  #74  
Old 10-10-18, 05:21 PM
NeoFB18 NeoFB18 is offline
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How does this play out? How many kids went to the Ginn Academy to play football at Glenville? How many will now end up at Glenville so they can continue their football careers? How many go back to their home schools? Does Ginn Academy start to lose students?
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  #75  
Old 10-11-18, 06:09 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleSE View Post
May have been mentioned before, but it's interesting there was no mention of forfeits for Glenville HS, but it seems that John Marshall forfeited 2 games for the same infraction.
It's not the same infraction.

John Marshall's football team had students that attended another Cleveland HS that also had a football team (for example, a student attended school at JFK, which has a team, but played for John Marshall).

Glenville's football team has some students that attend another Cleveland HS (Ginn Academy) that does NOT have a football team, but those students live in a neighborhood that would attend a school other than Glenville that DOES have a football team (Collinwood, John Hay, etc). Therefore, those students should be playing for their neighborhood school's football team, not Glenville.

Re-read the thread if you're confused as to why Glenville isn't forfeiting games and John Marshall is. Different situations. The OHSAA statements put out also clearly explain the difference between the schools.

Here is a statement that sums it up:

"Per OHSAA, the difference in the penalties given to John Marshall and Glenville is a result of the eligibility of the affected students. In John Marshall's case, the school was allowing students who attend a non-traditional high school in the district to play football and soccer at the school. The school those students attend, however, does offer sports, making them ineligible to participate at any other CMSD school.

As for Glenville, the students attended a different non-traditional high school, which does not offer any sports. As such, they are allowed to participate in athletics at the CMSD high school located closest to the students' residence, but were improperly assigned to Glenville due to an administrative error."
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  #76  
Old 10-11-18, 06:12 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoFB18 View Post
How does this play out? How many kids went to the Ginn Academy to play football at Glenville? How many will now end up at Glenville so they can continue their football careers? How many go back to their home schools? Does Ginn Academy start to lose students?
I'm sure Ted Ginn got a lot of students to go to Ginn thinking that they could just play for him at Glenville. The problem is that, as we saw, a lot of these kids live in the Collinwood neighborhood (which is the next closest HS to Ginn). I dont think Teddy is the brightest guy out there.

I envision we will see a lot of football players "move" to the Glenville neighborhood this winter.......
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  #77  
Old 10-11-18, 11:38 AM
Cali_Eagle Cali_Eagle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
Are they trying to protect Glenville's Senate League winning streak?
You bet they are. Glenville will never forfeit any games until such time as the streak ends with an actual loss on the field. They might get any penalty in the rule book until that time but a forfeit of a game won't be one of them. Look at last season (or two years ago) when they were going to have to forfeit games, that got changed to something else PDQ. JMHO.
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  #78  
Old 10-11-18, 12:02 PM
SECfb SECfb is offline
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Originally Posted by Cali_Eagle View Post
You bet they are. Glenville will never forfeit any games until such time as the streak ends with an actual loss on the field. They might get any penalty in the rule book until that time but a forfeit of a game won't be one of them. Look at last season (or two years ago) when they were going to have to forfeit games, that got changed to something else PDQ. JMHO.
Either give the penality out properly, or dont give it at all. Inelgible playets in the games they played in should be forfeits.. automatically. And then there would be probably no playoffs anyway. If there not going tp give the forfeits, then Glenvilke should be participating in in the playoffs
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  #79  
Old 10-11-18, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
I was intrigued by this so I looked it up on the OHSAA website.

**Students Participating Per State Law (HomeEducated,
Community/STEM, Non-Public)
Even if these students and his/her parents DO live in your district, they should be counted as Tier 1 NonEnrolled as a consequence for not being included in
the Initial Enrollment Count (i.e. EMIS).

So basically, home schooled students count as 1 for CB, which is kinda weird because they technically reside in the district that they play sports. )
Maybe not so weird since the kid was not in the base enrollment number. So net effect only counts as one.
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  #80  
Old 10-11-18, 12:21 PM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by EagleFan View Post
Maybe not so weird since the kid was not in the base enrollment number. So net effect only counts as one.
True. I guess it balances out in the end either way.
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  #81  
Old 10-11-18, 01:18 PM
NeoFB18 NeoFB18 is offline
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Did Glenville lose a number of players going forward? If so, that could mean some closer games and maybe a loss for Glenville. Doesn't look like it will effect the playoffs much outside of Euclid if they are close.
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  #82  
Old 10-11-18, 01:52 PM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by NeoFB18 View Post
Did Glenville lose a number of players going forward? If so, that could mean some closer games and maybe a loss for Glenville. Doesn't look like it will effect the playoffs much outside of Euclid if they are close.
We won't know the exact number until next year probably, but all of the articles say 13 players are playing at Glenville that should be playing at other schools: 10 at John Hay, 2 at Collinwood and 1 other that they couldn't say. There's no mention if these players are "star players," normal starters, JV, grade level, etc, so we won't really know for a while.
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  #83  
Old 10-11-18, 04:32 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammer89 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest

Who figured it out?
According to a statement from CMSD themselves, they were warned in August of this year before the season began and still didnít follow the rule, which again, they helped write themselves.

Kind of takes a lot of decision making out of the punishment, doesn't it. I like their Super, Gordan. He did a heck of a job here in Toledo and I guess also down in Olentangy. Got to like a guy whose heart is with the most disadvantaged but this has to shape up.
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  #84  
Old 10-11-18, 06:11 PM
Cali_Eagle Cali_Eagle is offline
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Originally Posted by SECfb View Post
Either give the penality out properly, or dont give it at all. Ineligible players in the games they played in should be forfeits.. automatically. And then there would be probably no playoffs anyway. If there not going to give the forfeits, then Glenville should be participating in in the playoffs
I don't disagree that all penalties given should be given out even handedly regardless of who is being penalized or what the circumstances are. I was simply stating that Glenville was given forfeits a year or two back, screamed/complained loudly and the forfeits were cancelled and some other penalty was given instead.
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  #85  
Old 10-12-18, 06:10 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by SECfb View Post
Either give the penality out properly, or dont give it at all. Inelgible playets in the games they played in should be forfeits.. automatically. And then there would be probably no playoffs anyway. If there not going tp give the forfeits, then Glenvilke should be participating in in the playoffs
Technically these players are eligible to play football. Your issue of ineligible players should be forced to forfeit games holds no water here. These students did not violate any transfer rules and they were in good academic standing to play football. They are eligible to play football per OHSAA rules. They were incorrectly assigned to Glenville for football, when they should have been playing elsewhere. This should not fall on the kids IMO, maybe Ted Ginn, but it shouldn't be on the kids. If you are a 14 year old kid going to Ginn Academy and the "legend" Ted Ginn comes to you and says come play football for me, you aren't going to say no. CMSD administration needs to put Ted Ginn in his place and make sure this doesn't happen again, or it more than likely will result in forfeits.
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  #86  
Old 10-12-18, 07:37 AM
SECfb SECfb is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
Technically these players are eligible to play football. Your issue of ineligible players should be forced to forfeit games holds no water here. These students did not violate any transfer rules and they were in good academic standing to play football. They are eligible to play football per OHSAA rules. They were incorrectly assigned to Glenville for football, when they should have been playing elsewhere. This should not fall on the kids IMO, maybe Ted Ginn, but it shouldn't be on the kids. If you are a 14 year old kid going to Ginn Academy and the "legend" Ted Ginn comes to you and says come play football for me, you aren't going to say no. CMSD administration needs to put Ted Ginn in his place and make sure this doesn't happen again, or it more than likely will result in forfeits.
Ok. If the kids are technically elgible, and there should be no forfeits, then Glenville should be elgible for the playoffs then too. Not by letting the kids participate in the playoffs is hurting the kids. Should have just gave Ginn, or the administration some other penality.
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  #87  
Old 10-12-18, 08:22 AM
LICKING COUNTY FAN LICKING COUNTY FAN is offline
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Did Glenville have any players suspended after the brawl from the game last week?
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  #88  
Old 10-12-18, 09:24 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by SECfb View Post
Ok. If the kids are technically elgible, and there should be no forfeits, then Glenville should be elgible for the playoffs then too. Not by letting the kids participate in the playoffs is hurting the kids. Should have just gave Ginn, or the administration some other penality.
The thing is, they are letting the kids finish the season. If they had to forfeit wins, then they basically would be forfeiting the entire season or those 13 kids wouldnt be able to finish the year. By letting the kids finish out the season, they aren't punishing the kids necessarily, they are letting them finish the season but not letting them advance to the playoffs. Would you rather have Glenville not let those 13 kids play the rest of the games? They probably wouldn't make the playoffs anyways if they lost that many kids.

Unfortunately, I don't think there is any sort of precedent for this situation, so OHSAA tried to find a middle ground here. They are letting the kids finish the season at Glenville, but no playoffs. IMO it's a pretty fair punishment. The other option is doing what they did to John Marshall and not letting the kids finish the year and forfeit wins, which in that case they wouldnt make the playoffs anyways.

I think by letting them finish out the year and then sorting out where the kids should be playing in the future is the best option rather than forfeiting wins and such. The kids didn't really do anything wrong here, this falls squarely on admin.

What other penalty would you have like to seen?
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  #89  
Old 10-12-18, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by LICKING COUNTY FAN View Post
Did Glenville have any players suspended after the brawl from the game last week?
There was a brawl last week? How bad and how many players involved?
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  #90  
Old 10-12-18, 11:52 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by NeoFB18 View Post
There was a brawl last week? How bad and how many players involved?
There's literally zero mention of a brawl in any article about last week's game.....
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