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  #1  
Old 10-08-18, 09:34 PM
fac974 fac974 is offline
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Glenville out

http://highschoolsports.cleveland.co...ding-to-ohsaa/
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  #2  
Old 10-08-18, 09:39 PM
Spread All Day Spread All Day is offline
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Glenville put on three-year probation, ineligible for 2018 football playoffs, according to OHSAA


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  #3  
Old 10-08-18, 09:50 PM
firewatch firewatch is offline
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Itís Been going on for 20 years why hammer them now.
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Old 10-08-18, 10:07 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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How does this work? If a student gets an out-of-district, they can play for the out of district school but if they go to a magnet school, they have to play for their in-district? Or am I swinging and missing completely on understanding why these kids can't play for the school they're attending? Were these students not even attending Ginn Academy?
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  #5  
Old 10-08-18, 10:20 PM
hammer89 hammer89 is offline
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Kids that attend Ginn academy can play football at the public school in the district they live in. Cleveland public was letting all the kids play for Glenville instead of allocating them based on their address as they would any other student.
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  #6  
Old 10-08-18, 10:21 PM
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Details are lacking. The vast majority of players for Glenville attend Ted Ginn Academy for years now
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  #7  
Old 10-08-18, 11:32 PM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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Maybe Rotsky and Euclid will be next.
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  #8  
Old 10-08-18, 11:38 PM
Steel Valley FB Steel Valley FB is offline
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Why has Glenville been getting a free pass all these years anyway? Oh...thatís right.

Itís about time.
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  #9  
Old 10-08-18, 11:54 PM
SeeYaSometime SeeYaSometime is offline
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Thought Ted Ginn was pretty much untouchable. Or he could be innocent of knowing and the school's AD is responsible.
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  #10  
Old 10-08-18, 11:54 PM
jeroe jeroe is online now
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Assuming for a second something was not done above board, I have never agreed with punishing kids. Help me understand what these players did to be punished.
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  #11  
Old 10-09-18, 02:39 AM
nupanther nupanther is offline
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Does this mean Glenville forfeits the 5 victories?
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  #12  
Old 10-09-18, 06:08 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nupanther View Post
Does this mean Glenville forfeits the 5 victories?
Doesnt sound like they'll forfeit victories, they just cant qualify for the playoffs. IF they did, it would really screw over Mentor and Euclid, who are fighting for seeding in D1. The article just mentions they cant make the playoffs this year, so it sounds like they'll be eligible next year.
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  #13  
Old 10-09-18, 06:09 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
Maybe Rotsky and Euclid will be next.
Nah, Rotsky will probably get these players to "move" to Euclid over the next year or 2. He's over there licking his chops this morning.
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  #14  
Old 10-09-18, 06:16 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
How does this work? If a student gets an out-of-district, they can play for the out of district school but if they go to a magnet school, they have to play for their in-district? Or am I swinging and missing completely on understanding why these kids can't play for the school they're attending? Were these students not even attending Ginn Academy?
Sounds like these kids were all attending Ginn Academy. Ginn Academy doesn't have a football program (It's basically an all boys school for at-risk kids, kinda like the LeBron James school that opened in Akron). Cardale Jones is the most "famous" player that attended Ginn Academy. Anyone that lives in any part of Cleveland can attend Ginn Academy. However, technically you are only allowed to play sports for the area that you live in. Many kids that lived in the areas of John Hay, Collinwood, Whitney Young and other areas with terrible football programs all went to Ginn Academy so that they could just play for Glenville (can't really blame them). It's kinda like if you are home schooled, you can't just pick and choose what school you want to play sports, you're supposed to play for your home district or home high school. So if a student attends Ginn Academy but lives in the neighborhood that attends Whitney Young, they're supposed to play for WY.

Glenville and Ginn Academy aren't too far apart, so a lot of the boys that attend Ginn Academy already live in the neighborhood that would go to Glenville anyways. Unfortunately, a small number of players dont, and that's what screwed them. I'm sure this has been happening for years though, not sure why it's being investigated now.

Hope this helps
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  #15  
Old 10-09-18, 07:59 AM
EaglePride01 EaglePride01 is offline
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My question would be the same one posed by many on here already, why now? Have they just gotten sloppy in light of the recent decline of the program? Was this an ongoing investigation that just reared its head now? Fellow Senate schools have been voicing their displeasure for years now.
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  #16  
Old 10-09-18, 08:06 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by EaglePride01 View Post
My question would be the same one posed by many on here already, why now? Have they just gotten sloppy in light of the recent decline of the program? Was this an ongoing investigation that just reared its head now? Fellow Senate schools have been voicing their displeasure for years now.
I wouldn't say the program has declined significantly. They are perennially 7-3 or 8-2 and making the playoffs, with their losses coming to teams like Euclid, Mentor, Eds, Iggy, etc. Not their fault no one wants to play them non-conference. Granted they're not a powerhouse like they used to be. With this ruling, there will be a significant decline I'm sure now. Now that Glenville is on the radar of the OHSAA, I would imagine that winning will become secondary to the adminstration for a few years.
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  #17  
Old 10-09-18, 08:10 AM
EaglePride01 EaglePride01 is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
I wouldn't say the program has declined significantly. They are perennially 7-3 or 8-2 and making the playoffs, with their losses coming to teams like Euclid, Mentor, Eds, Iggy, etc. Not their fault no one wants to play them non-conference. Granted they're not a powerhouse like they used to be. With this ruling, there will be a significant decline I'm sure now. Now that Glenville is on the radar of the OHSAA, I would imagine that winning will become secondary to the adminstration for a few years.
Well, they're always going to have a good record overall playing the Senate. But they used to be competitive with the likes of Ignatius, Eds, Mentor, and others in their non-conference games. The talent level has not been the same in recent years, and they are getting blown out in match-ups with the aforementioned teams.
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  #18  
Old 10-09-18, 08:11 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by EaglePride01 View Post
Well, they're always going to have a good record overall playing the Senate. But they used to be competitive with the likes of Ignatius, Eds, Mentor, and others in their non-conference games. The talent level has not been the same in recent years, and they are getting blown out in match-ups with the aforementioned teams.
Agreed. We will see a significant drop off after this year I'm sure as well.
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  #19  
Old 10-09-18, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EaglePride01 View Post
My question would be the same one posed by many on here already, why now? Have they just gotten sloppy in light of the recent decline of the program? Was this an ongoing investigation that just reared its head now? Fellow Senate schools have been voicing their displeasure for years now.
Maybe the new OHSAA Admin?

Maybe the PC aspect of leaving alone the gritty urban school fighting the good fight, albeit with some bending of the spirit of the rules, has fallen to the wayside and other similar situations throughout the state will also feel this sting?

Maybe now was a good time because the team was not doing as well and this type of decision would not cause big waives if TG decided to cash in some political chips to help fight it?
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  #20  
Old 10-09-18, 08:41 AM
SECfb SECfb is offline
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I thought Glenville was open enrollment. Does not sound like open enrollment to me. OSHAA going aftet Glenville, why are they not going after schools like Hoban, and so forth. Sounds like OSHAA, just picks and chooses what they want, and who.
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  #21  
Old 10-09-18, 08:49 AM
Football 101 Football 101 is offline
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1. the OHSAA didn't "just go after Glenville"

I seem to think if you all paid a little closer attention that someone else in Cleveland got dinged first - but I am not about to make this that easy. Keep reading

2. reread the article - there were kids attending other schools that didn't have football and those kids can play for their home district. I think the article sited 2 different schools, those students went to Glenville to just play football and not attend the home address school to play football, that is an easy one.

as far as it happening for years....sounds to me like somebody else started doing it and were getting some players, they got told on so everyone got told on.

and furthermore Hoban was dropped into the convo, they are ALLOWED to recruit within state rules and regulations, as long as they stay in those rules and regulations they have not committed a foul. Right now, Hoban is just doing it better than many others that can recruit
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  #22  
Old 10-09-18, 08:49 AM
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hmmm

Is this centering around the open enrollment debate of Public vs Private?
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  #23  
Old 10-09-18, 08:53 AM
tom 48 tom 48 is offline
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Is this centering around the open enrollment debate of Public vs Private?
Seems more like public vs public in the same school district.
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  #24  
Old 10-09-18, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Football 101 View Post
1. the OHSAA didn't "just go after Glenville"

I seem to think if you all paid a little closer attention that someone else in Cleveland got dinged first - but I am not about to make this that easy. Keep reading

2. reread the article - there were kids attending other schools that didn't have football and those kids can play for their home district. I think the article sited 2 different schools, those students went to Glenville to just play football and not attend the home address school to play football, that is an easy one.

as far as it happening for years....sounds to me like somebody else started doing it and were getting some players, they got told on so everyone got told on.

and furthermore Hoban was dropped into the convo, they are ALLOWED to recruit within state rules and regulations, as long as they stay in those rules and regulations they have not committed a foul. Right now, Hoban is just doing it better than many others that can recruit
Open enrollment should be exactly that. If a kid lives in another district it should not matter, because he can enroll at the school with open enrollment. If you can't do this , it is not open enrollment, and had no advantage. Then you mention Hoban, is allowed to do it. Then you wonder why a lot of people want a split
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  #25  
Old 10-09-18, 09:08 AM
Football 101 Football 101 is offline
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I understand why people want the split. Can't say I agree but I can't say I disagree with a split.

Open enrollment is for academic purposes. There were two players cited and it named the schools they attend. The two players do not attend the public school where they live, they have open enrolled into a school that has no football and the schools are not named Ginn Academy, well athletics are not open enrollment - so if you live in district of a public school and want to play football but attend a private school that has no football then you can play for the public school in which you live.

not - I want to go to this school but play for this school over here, not how it works and I am glad it doesn't work this way, I hate all the AAU garbage and now it seems to be spilling into football

I was not the first to bring up Hoban - I was responding to another person. Hoban is a private school that has football, the kids that chose to go there play football there because they offer it. Hoban just went through an investigation and came out without penalty......

Also know - schools are for academic reasons and that is how open enrollment should be used, seems like some kids thought they could A LA CARTE with school and football and it doesn't work that way. They got caught, now the team pays. I don't for one minute think that the coaches didn't know this. And if truth be known it probably has been happening for years but this year they got caught.
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  #26  
Old 10-09-18, 09:13 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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This isn't an open enrollment conversation. This is a CMSD issue. CMSD is one large district with many high schools. We aren't talking about anyone recruiting outside of the district. Not sure why people would even bring up private schools into this thread, unless you have no clue how the education in large cities like Cleveland is split up. If you live in a certain neighborhood of a city, you go to that High School. It's like that in most big cities. The OHSAA wants to keep this rule because they don't want all of the good athletes in a big city to go one school, thus making the other 9 schools in Cleveland terrible. This is more of a competitive balance issue than open enrollment really.

Since Ginn Academy's closest CMSD school that has football is Collinwood, most of the students that go to Ginn probably live in the neightborhood that typically would go there, thus making these students have to play sports for Collinwood. The other closest is John Hay. It's not rocket science.
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  #27  
Old 10-09-18, 09:13 AM
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Like I said, for athletic purposes all the rules by OSHAA are bended for the private schools. That is garbage.
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  #28  
Old 10-09-18, 09:15 AM
Football 101 Football 101 is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
this isn't an open enrollment conversation. This is a cmsd issue. Cmsd is one large district with many high schools. We aren't talking about anyone recruiting outside of the district. Not sure why people would even bring up private schools into this thread, unless you have no clue how the education in large cities like cleveland is split up. If you live in a certain neighborhood of a city, you go to that high school. It's like that in most big cities. The ohsaa wants to keep this rule because they don't want all of the good athletes in a big city to go one school, thus making the other 9 schools in cleveland terrible. This is more of a competitive balance issue than open enrollment really.

Since ginn academy's closest cmsd school that has football is collinwood, most of the students that go to ginn probably live in the neightborhood that typically would go there, thus making these students have to play sports for collinwood. The other closest is john hay. It's not rocket science.

exactly - and SECfb - not saying I disagree about the private school deal - I just think that is a different argument and not relevant to this case
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  #29  
Old 10-09-18, 09:17 AM
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At least you understand. A lot of private school backers don't want to see that way
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  #30  
Old 10-09-18, 09:22 AM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
Sounds like these kids were all attending Ginn Academy. Ginn Academy doesn't have a football program (It's basically an all boys school for at-risk kids, kinda like the LeBron James school that opened in Akron). Cardale Jones is the most "famous" player that attended Ginn Academy. Anyone that lives in any part of Cleveland can attend Ginn Academy. However, technically you are only allowed to play sports for the area that you live in. Many kids that lived in the areas of John Hay, Collinwood, Whitney Young and other areas with terrible football programs all went to Ginn Academy so that they could just play for Glenville (can't really blame them). It's kinda like if you are home schooled, you can't just pick and choose what school you want to play sports, you're supposed to play for your home district or home high school. So if a student attends Ginn Academy but lives in the neighborhood that attends Whitney Young, they're supposed to play for WY.

Glenville and Ginn Academy aren't too far apart, so a lot of the boys that attend Ginn Academy already live in the neighborhood that would go to Glenville anyways. Unfortunately, a small number of players dont, and that's what screwed them. I'm sure this has been happening for years though, not sure why it's being investigated now.

Hope this helps
Thanks, good explanation. I would say the new head of OHSAA is putting his foot down and letting schools know business is not as usual.
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