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  #31  
Old 10-03-18, 01:37 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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And here's TOM's 141 and 149 for the top four teams:

PSU 141 Lee #4, 149 NR
tOSU 141 McKenna #2, 149 Jordan #2
OKST 141 Brock #5, Lewallen #5
IOWA 141 Murin #11, 149 Lugo #7
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  #32  
Old 10-03-18, 01:42 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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And here's TOM's top 8 Ohio and affiliates for 125-149:

125
none
133
3 Tariq Wilson NC State
4 Luke Pletcher Ohio State
141
2 Joey McKenna Ohio State
149
1 Matt Kolodzik Princeton
2 Micah Jordan Ohio State
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  #33  
Old 10-04-18, 01:32 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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Here's TOM's next three weights for the top four teams:

PSU 157 Nolf #1, 165 Joseph #1, 174 Hall #2
tOSU 157 Hayes #7, 165 NR, 174 Campbell #12
OKST 157 Shomers #19, 165 Joe Smith #5, 174 Rodgers #8
IOWA 157 Young #16, 165 Marinelli #4, 174 Kemerer #6
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  #34  
Old 10-04-18, 01:34 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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And here's TOM's top 8 Ohio and affiliates for 157-174:

157
7 Ke-Shawn Hayes Ohio State
165
4 Alex Marinelli Iowa
174
none
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  #35  
Old 10-05-18, 01:22 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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And here's TOM's 184-285 for the top four teams:

PSU 184 Rasheed #5, 197 Nickal #1, 285 Nevills #2
tOSU 184 MyMar #1, 197 Moore #3, 285 NR
OKST 184 Jacobe Smith #9, 197 Weigel #6, 285 White #4
IOWA 184 Wilcke #12, 197 Warner #13, 285 Stoll #1

OKST and IOWA ranked all 10, but with 3 off the podium for OKST and 5 off the podium for IOWA.

Advancement and placement points (no bonus)
PSU 114.5
tOSU 86.5
IOWA 77
OKST 74
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  #36  
Old 10-05-18, 01:24 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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And here's TOM's top 8 Ohio and affiliates for 184-285:

184
1 Myles Martin Ohio State
197
2 Kyle Conel Kent State
3 Kollin Moore Ohio State
285
none
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  #37  
Old 10-09-18, 11:37 AM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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A couple of interesting tid bits from Flo's predictions vs rankings:

To differentiate the two, rankings in preseason are where you deserve to be ranked based primarily on your NCAA performance last year. Predictions are where the "rankers" actually think you'll end up. These are behind a pay wall (which I don't pay for) but someone posted these on another site. They are dripping out a weight or so a day, now up to 165. My source has posted 125-149. Fix, OKST, was ranked #9 at 133 and bumps up to #3 in the predictions. Micah Jordan, tOSU, was ranked #2 at 149 and bumped to #1 in the predictions.
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  #38  
Old 10-09-18, 11:51 AM
Yankeefan33 Yankeefan33 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdhof View Post
A couple of interesting tid bits from Flo's predictions vs rankings:

To differentiate the two, rankings in preseason are where you deserve to be ranked based primarily on your NCAA performance last year. Predictions are where the "rankers" actually think you'll end up. These are behind a pay wall (which I don't pay for) but someone posted these on another site. They are dripping out a weight or so a day, now up to 165. My source has posted 125-149. Fix, OKST, was ranked #9 at 133 and bumps up to #3 in the predictions. Micah Jordan, tOSU, was ranked #2 at 149 and bumped to #1 in the predictions.
Their 157 predictions:

1. Jason Nolf, Penn State
2. Hayden Hidlay, NC State
3. Alec Pantaleo, Michigan
4. Ryan Deakin, Northwestern
5. Josh Shields, Arizona State
6. Tyler Berger, Nebraska
7. Kennedy Monday, North Carolina
8. John Van Brill, Rutgers

165 predictions:

1st: Vincenzo Joseph, Penn State
2nd: Chance Marsteller, Lock Haven
3rd: Mekhi Lewis, Virginia Tech
4th: Evan Wick, Wisconsin
5th: Alex Marinelli, Iowa
6th: Logan Massa, Michigan
7th: Bryce Steiert, Northern Iowa
8th: Isaiah White, Nebraska
R12: Joseph Smith, Oklahoma State
R12: Jonathan Chavez, Cornell
R12: Branson Ashworth, Wyoming
R12: Connor Flynn, Missouri
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  #39  
Old 10-09-18, 12:28 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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Thanks for the update, Yankeefan33. Ke-Shawn Hayes, tOSU, fall off the podium at 157 (ranked at #6) in the predictions as does Joe Smith, OKST, at 165 (ranked #6).
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  #40  
Old 10-09-18, 01:20 PM
CuriousGeorge1 CuriousGeorge1 is offline
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Those 165 pridictions are crazy.

Marinelli is #5! Five!

Massa is #6! SIX!

White is #8! EIGHT!

Chavez, Smith, Flynn Round of 12!

AND Romero isn't even in the top 12!


Joesph, Marstellar, Lewis, Wick are a legit top 4 though. What a weight.
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  #41  
Old 10-09-18, 01:41 PM
Yankeefan33 Yankeefan33 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdhof View Post
Thanks for the update, Yankeefan33. Ke-Shawn Hayes, tOSU, fall off the podium at 157 (ranked at #6) in the predictions as does Joe Smith, OKST, at 165 (ranked #6).
They're having different guys alternate predicting each weight, so 133/149/165/184/285 will have R12 projected, while the other weights probably wont.
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  #42  
Old 10-15-18, 07:07 AM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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NCAA Preseason Polls

Another interesting tidbit from predictions vs rankings at 197
Moore moves up to #2 and Conel drops all the way to #8


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  #43  
Old 10-15-18, 04:46 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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The Flo 285 predictions were the most interesting of all, IMO, as they pick true freshman Gable Steveson to win it all. While interesting this is not surprising after what he did in the US Open and WTTs. Beyond Steveson, there's a lot of good but not great 285s. Singletary got a little love as an R12.

If you add up the team points (advancement and placement but no bonus) you get this for the top four teams:

PSU 116
tOSU 84
IOWA 84
OKST 74.5

There was a little inconsistency in the predictions as they were done by two different guys, one who included R12s (at 133, 149, 165, 184 and 285) and the other who didn't include R12s (at 125, 141, 157, 174 and 197). The prediction was similar to the PS rankings in that PSU has a clear edge over the field and that tOSU, IOWA and OKST are battling for 2nd.
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  #44  
Old 10-15-18, 04:55 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdhof View Post
There was a little inconsistency in the predictions as they were done by two different guys, one who included R12s (at 133, 149, 165, 184 and 285) and the other who didn't include R12s (at 125, 141, 157, 174 and 197). The prediction was similar to the PS rankings in that PSU has a clear edge over the field and that tOSU, IOWA and OKST are battling for 2nd.
I think if they did R12s in all weights, Hayes at 157 and Campbell at 174 might have been listed. Heinselman at 125 probably needs to show that he can handle a higher weight class (120 last year in HS) before he would get ranked, although I don't think he's far off a R12, or even a 7-12 guy at the end of the year.
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  #45  
Old 10-16-18, 03:07 PM
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Here's Intermat's PS rankings:

PSU 125 NR, 133 NR, 141 #4, 149 #16, 157 #1, 165 #1, 174 #2, 184 #4, 197 #1, 285 #2 Team points (w/o bonus) 118.5

tOSU 125 NR, 133 #4, 141 #2, 149 Jordan #3, 157 Hayes #8, 165 NR, 174 #11, 184 #1, 197 #3, 285 NR Team points 83

OKST 125 #5, 133 #8, 141 #5, 149 #5, 157 #19, 165 #7, 174 #8, 184 #10, 197 #6, 285 #4 Team points 71.5

IOWA 125 #1, 133 #10, 141 #13, 149 #10, 157 #16, 165 #4, 174 #6, 184 #12, 197 #13, 285 #1 Team points 72
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  #46  
Old 10-16-18, 03:13 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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And here's Trackwrestling's PS rankings:

PSU 125 NR, 133 NR, 141 #4, 149 NR, 157 #1, 165 #1, 174 #2, 184 #5, 197 #1, 285 #2 Team points (w/o bonus) 114.5

tOSU 125 NR, 133 #4, 141 #2, 149 Jordan #2, 157 Hayes #7, 165 NR, 174 #14, 184 #1, 197 #3, 285 NR Team points 86

OKST 125 #6, 133 #10, 141 #5, 149 #5, 157 NR, 165 #6, 174 #8, 184 #8, 197 #6, 285 #4 Team points 72.5

IOWA 125 #1, 133 #9, 141 #11, 149 #9, 157 #16, 165 #4, 174 #6, 184 #10, 197 #8, 285 #1 Team points 76.5

Track actually ranks 25, but I don't include 21-25 to be consistent with the other rankings. tOSU 285 Singletary got a #22 rank.
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  #47  
Old 10-16-18, 03:14 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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Still waiting on Amateur Wrestling News for my summary.
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  #48  
Old 10-16-18, 08:43 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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An interesting tidbit that I just noticed. I don't know if they've ever done this before (ranking true freshmen), but Intermat (IM) and Trackwrestling (TW) both ranked true freshman Gable Steveson at 285, IM putting him #5 and TW putting him #19. I'm not sure why you bother to rank him at all if your gonna put him #19, but still interesting that they put a true freshman on the board. He did wrestle a handful of NCAA matches last year at an open, so that probably opened the door for him. As mentioned earlier, Flo did not rank him but put him #1 in their "predictions" for 285. It'll be interesting to see how long it takes for him to be a consensus #1. He should meet OKST's #4 ranked 285 on 11/18 and IOWA's #1 Stoll on 1/13.
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  #49  
Old 10-16-18, 08:59 PM
Yankeefan33 Yankeefan33 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdhof View Post
An interesting tidbit that I just noticed. I don't know if they've ever done this before (ranking true freshmen), but Intermat (IM) and Trackwrestling (TW) both ranked true freshman Gable Steveson at 285, IM putting him #5 and TW putting him #19. I'm not sure why you bother to rank him at all if your gonna put him #19, but still interesting that they put a true freshman on the board. He did wrestle a handful of NCAA matches last year at an open, so that probably opened the door for him. As mentioned earlier, Flo did not rank him but put him #1 in their "predictions" for 285. It'll be interesting to see how long it takes for him to be a consensus #1. He should meet OKST's #4 ranked 285 on 11/18 and IOWA's #1 Stoll on 1/13.
Minnesota is scheduled to go to Cliff Keen Las Vegas, where he could see Tanner Hall (Az St), Billy Miller (Virginia Tech), Jere Heino (Campbell), and/or Conan Jennings (Northwestern); if Gable beats three top 10 guys (White + 2 at CKLV), and has 0 losses, he's a top 5 guy in the country. And if Nevills ends up redshirting/missing the season and Stoll is ineffective, Gable could be 1 before the new year.
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  #50  
Old 10-19-18, 05:18 AM
CuriousGeorge1 CuriousGeorge1 is offline
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Does St. Edward have any Alumni even ranked in the top 20 pre-season?

I know it is Pre-Season and its a long season, but is this the year the incredible streak of All Americans is snapped?

Ladnier at Harvard I thought would be ranked, but apparently he just missed the cut off.

Who are even the possibilities for St. Ed's to continue the streak? Ladnier at Harvard I thought would be ranked, but apparently he just missed the cut off. Where is Bentley? Did he transfer our of Pitt? Is Campbell set to compete this year at NDC? Kazmir is at Columbia, so although he is a Freshmen, the Ivy League schools don't use red shirts, so he should be competing for a lineup spot as a True Freshmen. Cody Howard at Virginia Tech. Alan Hart at Missouri, although he has a loaded roster to contend with around his weight.

Who am I forgetting?
Parker Knapp still at Ohio State? Dzurso still at OU?

Last edited by CuriousGeorge1; 10-20-18 at 06:51 AM.
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  #51  
Old 10-19-18, 09:13 AM
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Bentley will be at 141 for Pitt. Hart was talking about 157 to avoid all the guys at 141/149 but he is likely not big enough. Kazmir is at Columbia. So, Bentley and Ladnier are the best hopes. Knapp quit first season and left OSU. Dzuro had a Lot of injuries.
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  #52  
Old 10-19-18, 09:30 AM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge1 View Post
Does St. Edward have any Alumni even ranked in the top 20 pre-season?
I remember reading an article on Flo last year indicating that it would be tough to extend the streak this year. They went thru the underclassmen and none are likely to AA but stranger things happen. I'd like to see the streak continue. I'm not sure who is next in line with the longest streak - maybe Blair or SPG.
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  #53  
Old 11-01-18, 08:48 AM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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Amateur Wrestling News (AWN), the granddaddy of wrestling news, missed the deadline for inclusion in the preseason polls. Here's the final tally averaging FloWrestling (FLO), The Open Mat (TOM), Intermat (IM), Trackwrestling (TW) and Wrestling Insider Magazine (WIN).

1 PSU 114.5
2 tOSU 85.5
3 IOWA 75.5
4 OKST 72.0

As expected, PSU starts the season with a healthy lead. Unlike last year, I don't see them being challenged, altho things happen. It's still uncertain whether or not Nevills, #2 at 285, is healthy which would close the gap considerably if he can't go. Other than that, they have three #1s, another #2 and a couple of #5s.

tOSU counters with a preseason #1, two #2s, a #3, a #6 and a #13. I had some hope that Singletary could be a bubble guy (ranked 7-12), but have less hope after his wrestle off loss. 125 Heinselman and 165 Romero could emerge as bubbles.

IOWA and OKST lurk just 10 pts or so behind tOSU and both feature lineups that had all ten wrestlers ranked by a few venues. Their problems are that half of their lineups feature bubble or worse guys (ranked 7-20). Pretty much everything would need to go right for them to advance much, but only a few things would need to go right for them to catch tOSU.

The season is not yet started, so I won't declare PSU champs yet, but the landscape would need to change to put tOSU or others in play. Altho if Nevills is on the sidelines, that makes things more interesting. The race for #2 should have more drama to it. And it will be interesting to see how the young Bucks do, if MyMar can get bookend championships and if McKenna and/or Jordan can win a title.
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  #54  
Old 11-02-18, 06:57 AM
EW1984 EW1984 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Bryant View Post
It's all up to the outlet. Redshirt freshmen absolutely have every right to be ranked in the pre-season and some are. WIN likes to get theirs out ahead of everyone else, and that can lead to some of the issues that have plagued their rankings over the years, some of which has been mentioned above.

In my ranking history (with both InterMat and AWN/TOM in the past 15 years), I never ranked true freshmen until they wrestled a varsity match. RS Freshmen would normally get ranked.

It's not a rule, it's just the arbitrary decision on who sets the "rules" for said rankings.
Is this THE Jason Bryant on our Ohio board? More than happy to see you here Jason!
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  #55  
Old 11-02-18, 07:05 AM
LHS WRESTLING LHS WRESTLING is offline
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tOSU counters with a preseason #1, two #2s, a #3, a #6 and a #13. I had some hope that Singletary could be a bubble guy (ranked 7-12), but have less hope after his wrestle off loss. 125 Heinselman and 165 Romero could emerge as bubbles.



Will OSU sit Singletary despite the loss in the wrestle off? Is this the only factor in deciding the starter? If he is getting $$, will they let him sit? Hats off to Traub for beating such a highly rated prospect!
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  #56  
Old 11-02-18, 07:42 AM
OCEagle OCEagle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeefan33 View Post
Since Darmstadt goes to Cornell (Ivy league), he can't technically "redshirt". Darmstadt will have to rely on a medical hardship exemption, but I don't think he can apply until closer to when his eligibility is up (2 years).
Not familiar with why Harvard can't "redshirt" a wrestler. I understand they do not provide any athletic scholarships in the Ivy League, but wouldn't they still be eligible to have 5 seasons to complete 4 years of competition under NCAA rules? Does it come down to the fact that the Ivy League would not allow athletes to compete in the League unless it is based on the award of a medical hardship "redshirt". Otherwise they are still eligible under the same rules allowed by the NCAA to all schools.

I always wonder how much aid the Ivy League provides to their athletes - especially for those sports where they compete at the DI level. It has to be pretty good in order for it to make sense to go to those schools and participate in athletics while compiling about $70K/year in debt for tuition, room and board. The reputation for the Ivy League schools remains high, but not so much that it outweighs many of the other public and private schools around the country (eg: Michigan, Virginia, Stanford, Cal, etc.) when it comes to employment opportunities and related compensation commanded after graduation. Would never say it is not worth it to most, but that is a lot of money at stake, so I would imagine the financial aid available and academic scholarship money for athletes can be pretty good.
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  #57  
Old 11-02-18, 08:33 AM
Blast82.5 Blast82.5 is offline
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Most (all?) of the Ivys stress graduation "on time" (4 years); that may have something to do with them not allowing official "redshirts." I know it's a League rule, not specific to one school / sport or another. Medical hardships are the exception.

Financial Aid is based on need ... FAFSA and all that stuff. Not really different than other schools. I do know that each school can "match" the aid offered by another Ivy school. "Rich" Ivys (Harvard, Princeton ... as if the others are not "rich") are more generous in their calculation of Need, and offer more assistance. If a kid can get recruited by one of those schools, then he/she can get a similar financial arrangement from another Ivy.

Totally agree that there are many excellent schools, and "Ivy" is not the be-all, end-all. Some are nearly as difficult to gain admission to, but the presence of athletic money may very well tip the scales for many athletes.
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  #58  
Old 11-02-18, 12:10 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LHS WRESTLING View Post
tOSU counters with a preseason #1, two #2s, a #3, a #6 and a #13. I had some hope that Singletary could be a bubble guy (ranked 7-12), but have less hope after his wrestle off loss. 125 Heinselman and 165 Romero could emerge as bubbles.

Will OSU sit Singletary despite the loss in the wrestle off? Is this the only factor in deciding the starter? If he is getting $$, will they let him sit? Hats off to Traub for beating such a highly rated prospect!

The wrestle off won’t determine who starts but it probably tells you that Singletary is somewhat ordinary and not a likely AA


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