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  #361  
Old 09-14-14, 07:26 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suplex21 View Post
Team A has a 60 yard td run. During the run team a left tackle tackles team b corner on B 35 yard line. During the tackle (holding) team b corner starts kicking and flailing to get the tackle off him(unsportsmanlike conduct).
where is the ball spotted?
Original los? (A40) both fouls cancel eathother out replay the down.
B35 spot of could.
b30 spot of foul -10 for holding +15 for unsportsmanlike.
I
something else?

I will say what happened after I hear some responses.

If the fouls were announced by the Referee as you stated...

Hold on offense
Unsportsmanlike conduct on defense (I'll address this later)

The fouls should have been enforced as follows....

- Cancel the score

- Assess a 10 yard penalty against A (for the hold) from B's 35 yard line back to B's 45 yard line

- Assess a 15 yard penalty against B (for Unsportsmanlike Conduct) back to B's 30 yard line.

A is awarded a new series of downs, 1st and 10 a B's 30 yard line.


The reason these penalties do not offset is that live ball UC fouls are treated differently than other live ball fouls, as UC fouls are either non-player or non contact fouls. They are penalized from the succeeding spot.

Now, the UC penalty for B's corner "kicking and flailing" should have been an illegal personal contact foul against B's corner. Had that occurred, the fouls would have offset, and the down would have been replayed.
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  #362  
Old 09-14-14, 07:37 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tad Wynn View Post
Team A punts. Team B fields the punt. After the catch and during the return, official throws a penalty flag against Team B and blows an IW. Now what?
B will keep possession of the ball and the official who blew the whistle is buying afterwards.

B was in possession when the IW occurs, therefore the the ball becomes dead at the spot where B was when the whistle was sounded. The penalty will be assessed just as it would have been as if B was downed at that spot.

If the foul was on B and it occurred behind the dead ball spot, the penalty would be enforced from the spot of the foul. It it occurred in advance of the dead ball spot, it would be enforced from the dead ball spot. If the foul was against A, it would be enforced from the dead ball spot.

The foul could also be declined and B would have the ball at the dead ball spot.
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  #363  
Old 09-14-14, 09:05 AM
bleacherbum57 bleacherbum57 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
The encroachment foul by the defense causes the ball to become dead immediately. The kicking team would have the option to move the ball to the 1 1/2 yard line or refuse the distance penalty and attempt the try from the 3 yard line.

Thanks for the response, I figured that was the case, but again, it just doesn't seem fair. A yard and a half makes no difference, so in essence the defense is not being penalized for the encroachment. Meanwhile it flusters the kicker.
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  #364  
Old 09-14-14, 01:04 PM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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Usually it will just get declined or they might try to go for 2.
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  #365  
Old 09-14-14, 01:05 PM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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Only other way to enforce would be to let them take on the kickoff. Not sure if I'd be in favor of that change or not.
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  #366  
Old 09-14-14, 01:44 PM
bleacherbum57 bleacherbum57 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb9 View Post
Usually it will just get declined or they might try to go for 2.

That's my point, the offense was not given the option to decline, even though they converted the first kick. I think the rule should allow the play to proceed, then let the offensive team decide whether to accept the penalty (move the ball the yard and a half, then kick again or go for two), or decline it and take the point. I understand now the refs got the call right according to the current rules.
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  #367  
Old 09-14-14, 01:48 PM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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Yeah it's one of those where that is the rule and it is not likely to change.
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  #368  
Old 09-14-14, 10:37 PM
vamp2syd vamp2syd is offline
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I saw this in a game last night. It is 2nd and goal with the ball on the 1 yard line. They run a play and they are dropped for a 1 yard loss. After the whistle there is some pushing and a flag is thrown. Unsportsmanlike penalty on both teams. The ball is now placed on the 8 1/2 yard line and it is 3rd and goal.

Is that the correct way to do that? (marked off the 15 yard penalty one way and then went half the distance the other direction) If so that just does not seem right.....

One more...

In the Wayne/West game Wayne was trying to run out the clock. The Wayne RB got stood up in play and driven sideways out of bounds. Since his forward progress was stopped in play shouldn't the clock stay running?

Thanks...
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  #369  
Old 09-15-14, 05:58 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vamp2syd View Post
I saw this in a game last night. It is 2nd and goal with the ball on the 1 yard line. They run a play and they are dropped for a 1 yard loss. After the whistle there is some pushing and a flag is thrown. Unsportsmanlike penalty on both teams. The ball is now placed on the 8 1/2 yard line and it is 3rd and goal.

Is that the correct way to do that? (marked off the 15 yard penalty one way and then went half the distance the other direction) If so that just does not seem right.....
All dead ball fouls are penalized in the order of occurrence under NFHS rules.

Apparently it was determined that the team on offense committed the first foul, taking the ball back to the 17, then followed by the enforcement of the second foul, which in this case is half the distance to the goal to the 8 1/2.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vamp2syd View Post
One more...

In the Wayne/West game Wayne was trying to run out the clock. The Wayne RB got stood up in play and driven sideways out of bounds. Since his forward progress was stopped in play shouldn't the clock stay running?

Thanks...
This is purely a judgment call, but as described...... yes, the clock should have kept running.
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  #370  
Old 09-15-14, 10:23 AM
vamp2syd vamp2syd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
All dead ball fouls are penalized in the order of occurrence under NFHS rules.

Apparently it was determined that the team on offense committed the first foul, taking the ball back to the 17, then followed by the enforcement of the second foul, which in this case is half the distance to the goal to the 8 1/2.




This is purely a judgment call, but as described...... yes, the clock should have kept running.
A follow up on your first response. Now if the defense would of committed the foul first then they would of gone half the distance to the 1 yard line and then backed it up to the 16... would that be correct? If so, that would be strange.... and it would seem to be rewarding the defense.

thanks for your response...
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  #371  
Old 09-15-14, 10:42 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vamp2syd View Post
A follow up on your first response. Now if the defense would of committed the foul first then they would of gone half the distance to the 1 yard line and then backed it up to the 16... would that be correct?
Correct

Quote:
Originally Posted by vamp2syd View Post
it would seem to be rewarding the defense.
I agree
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  #372  
Old 09-18-14, 10:07 PM
Wadz06 Wadz06 is offline
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Why does it sometimes take so long for the ref to start the play clock? Ball is placed, chains set, down marker correct, both teams in huddles and the ref just takes his sweet time to start the the play clock?
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  #373  
Old 09-19-14, 05:19 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wadz06 View Post
Why does it sometimes take so long for the ref to start the play clock? Ball is placed, chains set, down marker correct, both teams in huddles and the ref just takes his sweet time to start the the play clock?
While establishing a rhythm is important to having a good flow during a football game, sometimes there are other things going on that prevent that from happening. Now way for anyone who's not in attendance to really comment on why a R is slow at making the ball ready. The rule of thumb is having theball ready 3-5 seconds after the ball is placed by the Umpire.

In the end, sometimes you get an R that has a great pace and sometimes you don't.
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  #374  
Old 09-19-14, 09:35 PM
Wadz06 Wadz06 is offline
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Understood, just seems like sometimes they are just trying to run clock in order to get the game over quicker
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  #375  
Old 09-19-14, 11:46 PM
Wadz06 Wadz06 is offline
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Hell I wish the ref starts the play clock immediately after a time out expires, to the second! Instead of waiting for teams to line up.
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  #376  
Old 09-20-14, 06:48 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wadz06 View Post
Hell I wish the ref starts the play clock immediately after a time out expires, to the second! Instead of waiting for teams to line up.
Me too!
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  #377  
Old 09-21-14, 11:54 AM
McK1885 McK1885 is offline
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Why on the kickoff

Pass play goes for TD. Defense is called for holding during the play. Offense takes the TD. They also get to kickoff from the 50 . Is this the correct call?
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  #378  
Old 09-21-14, 11:57 AM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McK1885 View Post
Pass play goes for TD. Defense is called for holding during the play. Offense takes the TD. They also get to kickoff from the 50 . Is this the correct call?
Yes a defensive penalty on a scoring play can be taken on the kickoff.
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  #379  
Old 09-21-14, 12:20 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Horse collar rule

I've seen a couple times this year now where grabbing the jersey up high and throwing someone down is called a personal foul. Right or wrong?

Also if a player celebrates a bit much, are refs encouraged to give the player a warning first or not? Saw this twice the other night where flags were thrown immediately and it seemed a little like an over reaction by the ref.
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  #380  
Old 09-21-14, 12:41 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
Horse collar rule

I've seen a couple times this year now where grabbing the jersey up high and throwing someone down is called a personal foul. Right or wrong?
If he is pulled backwards or to the side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
Also if a player celebrates a bit much, are refs encouraged to give the player a warning first or not? Saw this twice the other night where flags were thrown immediately and it seemed a little like an over reaction by the ref.
A warning is an option, but it's not encouraged. Flagging the player will hopefully put an end to the conduct and help prevent any escalation of emotions from either side.
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  #381  
Old 09-21-14, 01:57 PM
INDIANS_RULE INDIANS_RULE is offline
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Is defensive holding on the secondary not a automatic first down in High School?
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  #382  
Old 09-21-14, 02:43 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by INDIANS_RULE View Post
Is defensive holding on the secondary not a automatic first down in High School?
The only penalties that result in an automatic first down are....

Roughing the Kicker, Passer, Snapper, or Holder.
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  #383  
Old 09-21-14, 03:31 PM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
If he is pulled backwards or to the side.



A warning is an option, but it's not encouraged. Flagging the player will hopefully put an end to the conduct and help prevent any escalation of emotions from either side.
http://www.ohsaa.org/sports/ft/boys/...dsHandbook.pdf

Pg 47 and 48 (49-50 on Adobe) will help give a feel for what we do in these situations.
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  #384  
Old 09-21-14, 09:14 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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One more

Ball carrier loses helmet, play is blown dead immediately right?

But not for any other player on the field? So if a defender loses his helmet he can still chase down the ball carrier and make the tackle?
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  #385  
Old 09-21-14, 09:25 PM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
One more

Ball carrier loses helmet, play is blown dead immediately right?
Yes

Quote:
But not for any other player on the field? So if a defender loses his helmet he can still chase down the ball carrier and make the tackle?
They are no longer allowed to participate in the play. It is a penalty to participate without a helmet and a penalty to hit someone without a helmet on.

Good article http://www.nfhs.org/articles/additio...g-off-players/
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  #386  
Old 09-22-14, 09:42 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb9 View Post
They are no longer allowed to participate in the play. It is a penalty to participate without a helmet and a penalty to hit someone without a helmet on.

Good article http://www.nfhs.org/articles/additio...g-off-players/
That article is a good resource in explaining that the player has violated if he/she continues to participate beyond the immediate action in which the player is engaged.

That being said, it's up to the covering official to decide whether or not the player was outside the realm of the immediate action.
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  #387  
Old 09-24-14, 08:21 AM
#letsgetit #letsgetit is offline
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Why do so many people feel that following a safety on a free kick the ball has to be Punted??? Its called "free kick" for a reason
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  #388  
Old 09-24-14, 08:52 AM
jmog jmog is offline
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Originally Posted by #letsgetit View Post
Why do so many people feel that following a safety on a free kick the ball has to be Punted??? Its called "free kick" for a reason
The big one that most mess up/don't know is that the ball is live just like a kick off.

I saw a HS game years ago, where after a safety the kicking team punted, and the receiving team got away from the ball like on a hard to catch punt.

The kicking team recovered and it was their ball.

The receiving team coach knew the rule and was SCREAMING to get on the ball, but the players were either too far away and/or didn't hear him soon enough.
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  #389  
Old 09-24-14, 09:54 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #letsgetit View Post
Why do so many people feel that following a safety on a free kick the ball has to be Punted??? Its called "free kick" for a reason
A kickoff to start a half, after a TD, or field goal is also a free kick. However, those kicks must be executed by either placing the ball on a tee, being held by a teammate, or by a drop kick. The exception for executing a free kick ball by punting only applies after a safety.
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  #390  
Old 09-25-14, 10:52 AM
#letsgetit #letsgetit is offline
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When a reciever steps out and comes back to make a catch i know its a penalty. However, is it loss of down? On the stmarys/elida thread there is a debate. The game ended on penalty in ot, elida caught what seemed to he a score in ot. Game ended, i believe the call was correct
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