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  #2731  
Old 08-11-17, 06:32 AM
Sig Hansen Sig Hansen is offline
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  #2732  
Old 08-11-17, 09:30 PM
FairFieldGolf87 FairFieldGolf87 is offline
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The Reds botched panic deal of Chapman and the low return on the Cueto deal is what is setting this re-build back, IMO. Thank god some of the lower profile flips have worked out pretty well (Leake for Duvall, Simon for Suarez, Strailey for Castillo)
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  #2733  
Old 08-11-17, 10:34 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by FairFieldGolf87 View Post
The Reds botched panic deal of Chapman and the low return on the Cueto deal is what is setting this re-build back, IMO. Thank god some of the lower profile flips have worked out pretty well (Leake for Duvall, Simon for Suarez, Strailey for Castillo)
The Reds WERE NOT going to sign Cueto, therefore, the need to offer much to the Reds was no longer there. Same thing with Chapman. Not sure why fans think that you're going to get high value in every trade. Other teams knew the Reds were not going to sign those two, cuts their market value.
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  #2734  
Old 08-11-17, 10:55 PM
FairFieldGolf87 FairFieldGolf87 is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
The Reds WERE NOT going to sign Cueto, therefore, the need to offer much to the Reds was no longer there. Same thing with Chapman. Not sure why fans think that you're going to get high value in every trade. Other teams knew the Reds were not going to sign those two, cuts their market value.
Yes I know the Reds needed to trade both of them. My point is they completely botched both deals. The Yankees flipped Chapman 3 months after they got him from the Reds for a top 10 prospect. The Reds front office completely dropped the ball on what his market would be if they held on to him until the trade deadline.
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  #2735  
Old 08-12-17, 08:44 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Jay Bruce seems happy to be with a winner. Happy that the Tribe didn't overpay last year.
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  #2736  
Old 08-12-17, 08:52 AM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
The Reds WERE NOT going to sign Cueto, therefore, the need to offer much to the Reds was no longer there. Same thing with Chapman. Not sure why fans think that you're going to get high value in every trade. Other teams knew the Reds were not going to sign those two, cuts their market value.
What I wanted was to trade Chapman the year prior, would have had a higher trade value, rebuild was needed, closer as a position is over rated
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  #2737  
Old 08-12-17, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Arrogate View Post
What I wanted was to trade Chapman the year prior, would have had a higher trade value, rebuild was needed, closer as a position is over rated
Yup, a lot of us called for that at the time as it was ridiculous to have the premier closer on a team built for nothing. Management screwed up a lot a trades and set a rebuild back significantly. They are trying to rebuild on mid-tier talent, so they are bound to fail. Watch this team do something really stupid like throw money at Cozart thinking this isn't a fluke year, he'll stay healthy, and they are nearly ready to contend.
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  #2738  
Old 08-12-17, 06:24 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
Jay Bruce seems happy to be with a winner. Happy that the Tribe didn't overpay last year.
What a relevant post to the 2017 Reds.
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  #2739  
Old 08-12-17, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
What a relevant post to the 2017 Reds.
Weirdo's just acting like the pissy girl he is.
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  #2740  
Old 08-12-17, 11:20 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by FairFieldGolf87 View Post
Yes I know the Reds needed to trade both of them. My point is they completely botched both deals. The Yankees flipped Chapman 3 months after they got him from the Reds for a top 10 prospect. The Reds front office completely dropped the ball on what his market would be if they held on to him until the trade deadline.
The same people that complain that they didn't trade him in the winter are the same ones who complain that they traded him too late. Maybe the Cubs were just willing to give up more when the Yankees were trading him? Also remember Chapman was in limbo of a suspension because of firing a machine gun in a garage. His value was very low when the Reds traded him. They feared his value may go lower with more investigating. Call it a panic move, but given the info at the time, they were simply unloading him.
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  #2741  
Old 08-12-17, 11:21 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
Jay Bruce seems happy to be with a winner. Happy that the Tribe didn't overpay last year.
Let's let it play out, we'll see if they get the good Jay Bruce, or the bad one.
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  #2742  
Old 08-12-17, 11:24 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Yup, a lot of us called for that at the time as it was ridiculous to have the premier closer on a team built for nothing. Management screwed up a lot a trades and set a rebuild back significantly. They are trying to rebuild on mid-tier talent, so they are bound to fail. Watch this team do something really stupid like throw money at Cozart thinking this isn't a fluke year, he'll stay healthy, and they are nearly ready to contend.
Yep, when you're bad, it's all because of the dumb trades that were or weren't made.... The same people who were wanting to "go for it" 3 years ago are the same ones complaining that the rebuild was set back. Make up your mind. You just want your team to win every year, right!

I don't think there is any way Cozart comes back unless the market dries up completely for him. He does however, even with a bum leg, is having a great year.
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  #2743  
Old 08-12-17, 11:46 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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The NL playoffs just got interesting, Bryce Harper blew his knee out tonight in a first base incident that looked errily like Cozart a few years ago. Clete slid off back side of bag, hyperextending the knee.
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  #2744  
Old 08-13-17, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Yep, when you're bad, it's all because of the dumb trades that were or weren't made.... The same people who were wanting to "go for it" 3 years ago are the same ones complaining that the rebuild was set back. Make up your mind. You just want your team to win every year, right!

I don't think there is any way Cozart comes back unless the market dries up completely for him. He does however, even with a bum leg, is having a great year.
Wtf are you blathering about now? Do you even know? No one wanted this team to "go for it" in 2014.
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  #2745  
Old 08-13-17, 09:27 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
What a relevant post to the 2017 Reds.
There is nothing relevant about the Reds, unless you want to discuss them as a "1AAA farm team" for the rest of MLB. If one looks at former Reds around the league, they are reminding of the '70s or '80s Indians teams that developed players for other cities.

Considering that the _purple putz made at least a dozen posts suggesting the Indians trade a real prospect for Bruce last year, I thought I'd keep y'all informed, that's all.

2 RBI for JB yesterday in a 3-0 win over the Rays. Tribe now 10 games>.500 and leading the Central by 4.5.
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  #2746  
Old 08-13-17, 10:06 AM
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Weirdo's just acting like the pissy girl he is.
Like I said. Lol.
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  #2747  
Old 08-13-17, 01:23 PM
EagleGuy EagleGuy is offline
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Rough loss last night. One day, I learn to call it a night after nine innings.
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  #2748  
Old 08-13-17, 09:56 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Rough loss last night. One day, I learn to call it a night after nine innings.
But you missed Votto's 10th inning single?
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  #2749  
Old 08-13-17, 11:18 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
There is nothing relevant about the Reds, unless you want to discuss them as a "1AAA farm team" for the rest of MLB. If one looks at former Reds around the league, they are reminding of the '70s or '80s Indians teams that developed players for other cities.

Considering that the _purple putz made at least a dozen posts suggesting the Indians trade a real prospect for Bruce last year, I thought I'd keep y'all informed, that's all.

2 RBI for JB yesterday in a 3-0 win over the Rays. Tribe now 10 games>.500 and leading the Central by 4.5.
Relevant?? No one projected the 2017 Reds to be contenders. What have we found out this year, or what IS relevant....

1. Joey Votto continues to be one of the best offensive players in baseball. He's currently on a streak of 18 games of reaching base at least 2 times per game. This is difficult to do in high school, let alone the majors. Barry Bonds has this record at 20 games.

2. Adam Duvall, in only his 2nd season as a major league starting left fielder, is following up last year with a better season, becoming one of the more feared sluggers in the NL.

3. Zack Cozart, a light hitting shortstop coming off of a severe knee injury coming into the season, has had his finest season as a pro, being voted into the All star game. Although still hampered by the injury, he's put up great numbers all season.

4. Going into the season, it was going to be bullpen by committee, and the club was hoping Rasiel Iglesias and Michael Lorenzen could be a good one two punch at the back end. Iglesias has hammered down the closers role, becoming a very solid finishers. Lorenzen has had more ups and downs, but he's been a very, very solid set up guy for Price.

5. The starters have been a dumpster fire. Prospects Stephenson, Reed, Davis, Romano have all struggled for the most part. Bronson Arroyo gave the team all he could in 2 months and has retired for all intensive purposes. DeSclafani has not returnd and Homer Bailey has returned, but been up and down so far. Enter Luis Castillo. With the failures of the others, the Reds may have found a diamond in the rough with Castillo.

6. The Reds picked up a veteran infielder who was cut by his team a few weeks before the season started in Scooter Gennett. What a find he has been. Genett has found a new home and new found success. He certainly has made the possibly changes it's infield plans for 2018 and beyond.

7. Wandy Peralta has been a pleasant surprise in the suddenly reliable back end of the Reds bullpen. Certainly the bullpen looks solid going into '18.

8. Reds defense. This team has been superb with the glove all season. Duvall and Hamilton are making great plays and are two of the leaders in baseball in outfield assists. Billy make a highlight catch nearly every week. Suarez, after struggling last year with the move to 3rd, has made himself into a reliable 3rd baseman. Tucker Barnhart is one of the best defensive catchers in baseball, period.
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  #2750  
Old 08-14-17, 07:10 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
The same people that complain that they didn't trade him in the winter are the same ones who complain that they traded him too late. Maybe the Cubs were just willing to give up more when the Yankees were trading him? Also remember Chapman was in limbo of a suspension because of firing a machine gun in a garage. His value was very low when the Reds traded him. They feared his value may go lower with more investigating. Call it a panic move, but given the info at the time, they were simply unloading him.
Yeah, that's on the Reds for holding him too long. Should have traded him the second they weren't contenders anymore. 2014, not 2016.
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  #2751  
Old 08-14-17, 07:12 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
There is nothing relevant about the Reds, unless you want to discuss them as a "1AAA farm team" for the rest of MLB. If one looks at former Reds around the league, they are reminding of the '70s or '80s Indians teams that developed players for other cities.

Considering that the _purple putz made at least a dozen posts suggesting the Indians trade a real prospect for Bruce last year, I thought I'd keep y'all informed, that's all.

2 RBI for JB yesterday in a 3-0 win over the Rays. Tribe now 10 games>.500 and leading the Central by 4.5.
No one needs to be informed of what happened to a player that wasn't traded to or from the Reds.

The current Reds and 70s/80s Indians are nothing remotely close to each other. Bruce, Cueto, Chapman, Frazier, Phillips, Latos' best days are all behind them.
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  #2752  
Old 08-14-17, 08:27 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Yeah, that's on the Reds for holding him too long. Should have traded him the second they weren't contenders anymore. 2014, not 2016.
That is SO easy to say now.
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  #2753  
Old 08-14-17, 08:33 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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That is SO easy to say now.
No, it's easy to say in 2014 too. Chapman is/was an elite closer. Elite closers aren't needed on non contending teams.
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  #2754  
Old 08-14-17, 10:37 AM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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Wait did 14red think the reds were contenders in 14?
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  #2755  
Old 08-14-17, 10:43 AM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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The Reds suck!
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  #2756  
Old 08-14-17, 11:00 AM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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I loved watching Chapman, but I was on the "trade him earlier" bandwagon also. I've cited stats before where average MLB closer save about 86% of save attempts, and Chapman at the time was saving about 92 or 93%. So yes, he was elite. But the difference for a season given the number of his opportunities to save was something like 2-3 games per season above an average MLB closer. Not worth a huge paycheck, especially for non-contenders.

But bear in mind that yes, the Reds waited too long to trade him, and also when they decided to trade him he decided to fire a gun in his garage to scare his lady. So his value also took a hit because of the impending suspension. Could not have timed that trade worse.
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  #2757  
Old 08-14-17, 11:11 AM
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Wait did 14red think the reds were contenders in 14?
Apparently so.
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  #2758  
Old 08-14-17, 11:30 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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The Reds suck!
Now there's some insight...
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  #2759  
Old 08-14-17, 11:32 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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I loved watching Chapman, but I was on the "trade him earlier" bandwagon also. I've cited stats before where average MLB closer save about 86% of save attempts, and Chapman at the time was saving about 92 or 93%. So yes, he was elite. But the difference for a season given the number of his opportunities to save was something like 2-3 games per season above an average MLB closer. Not worth a huge paycheck, especially for non-contenders.

But bear in mind that yes, the Reds waited too long to trade him, and also when they decided to trade him he decided to fire a gun in his garage to scare his lady. So his value also took a hit because of the impending suspension. Could not have timed that trade worse.


To just say - "should have traded him sooner" means that you know there was some deal out there where it was worth it to trade him? Any ideas, or do we just assume the Reds passed up on a couple of hall of fame prospects to keep Chapman in '14-'15??
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  #2760  
Old 08-14-17, 11:32 AM
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Doubling down on stupid is your go to card
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