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  #1  
Old 04-18-18, 10:30 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Cuomo restores voting rights to all 35,000 parolees in New York

Quote:
New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo announced Wednesday that he was granting conditional pardons to every parolee in the state ó 35,000 ó to restore their voting rights.

Cuomo, facing a primary challenge from the left from actress and activist Cynthia Nixon, made an end-run around the state Legislature, where Republicans had stymied his effort.

In New York, the law bars felons on parole from voting and there are an estimated 35,000 in the state.
Read more:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...w-york-n867156
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  #2  
Old 04-19-18, 06:13 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is online now
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Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
Why is it that the great state of New York, the bluest of the blue, with their incredible wealth and top flight education, a state where the smartest people must live, a state where liberalism reigns supreme, imprisons minorities a such an incredible rate ( 71% of the imprisoned are minorities)? Do they hate minorities?
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  #3  
Old 04-19-18, 06:51 AM
y2h y2h is offline
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Talk about gerrymandering.
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  #4  
Old 04-19-18, 09:36 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Felons, even more than African-Americans, vote Democratic.
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  #5  
Old 04-19-18, 11:26 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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I like the fact that it was pointed out that this was not about justice or correcting a wrong, it's a political move to counter an even more radical political opponent. Do what you can to hold onto power, rather than what is right for the law abiding citizens of New York.
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  #6  
Old 04-19-18, 12:47 PM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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God-Dammmit!!! I hate it when people can vote. What kind of country is this???
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  #7  
Old 04-19-18, 12:54 PM
ohiopup ohiopup is offline
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Only 3 will actually take the time to vote.

:>---

EGA
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  #8  
Old 04-19-18, 02:47 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
God-Dammmit!!! I hate it when people can vote. What kind of country is this???
I especially liked Cuomo's comment about how he just couldn't take "no" for an answer anymore (in reference to the state legislature refusing to pass legislation) so he acted on his own.

Damn democracy! Cuomo knows what is best for the people of New York.
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  #9  
Old 04-19-18, 02:52 PM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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I know I know. You only like "executive orders" when it is your guy.

That is all I ever heard now Pubs don't talk about those anymore, lol.
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  #10  
Old 04-19-18, 06:07 PM
y2h y2h is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
God-Dammmit!!! I hate it when people can vote. What kind of country is this???
People who forfeited that right through their own actions? Yeah.
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  #11  
Old 04-19-18, 06:10 PM
domi domi is offline
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Is there a legal precedent for denying felons their voting privileges or right to own a gun? I tried checking the oracle known as Google and it is a mess of liberal and conservative opinions.
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  #12  
Old 04-19-18, 06:38 PM
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Wasn't that long ago that taking away the right to vote from felons (at least for a period, if not forever) was not debated on either side. What has changed?
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  #13  
Old 04-19-18, 06:47 PM
Altor Altor is offline
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FWIW, most parolees in Ohio are able to re-register to vote after being released from prison.
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  #14  
Old 04-19-18, 08:13 PM
fish82 fish82 is online now
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Quite a few states allow felony parolees to vote.

Interesting that they still canít own a gun, seeing as how between the two, thatís the one thatís an actual right.
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  #15  
Old 04-20-18, 07:22 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by EagleFan View Post
Wasn't that long ago that taking away the right to vote from felons (at least for a period, if not forever) was not debated on either side. What has changed?
Felons, even more than African-Americans, vote Democratic.
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  #16  
Old 04-20-18, 07:53 AM
Zunardo Zunardo is offline
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Originally Posted by domi View Post
Is there a legal precedent for denying felons their voting privileges or right to own a gun? I tried checking the oracle known as Google and it is a mess of liberal and conservative opinions.
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Originally Posted by EagleFan View Post
Wasn't that long ago that taking away the right to vote from felons (at least for a period, if not forever) was not debated on either side. What has changed?
Like EagleFan, I had grown up under the impression that convicted felons forfeited their right to vote forever - probably from a grade school civics lesson. Don't laugh, it's kept me on the straight and narrow all of these years.

Domi is right, it's a quagmire out there. This link wades through the dreck and gives some coherent information. Was surprised to learn Ohio is one fo the 15 states that automatically restores voting rights to felons after their release

Surprisingly, you can still vote in Maine and Vermont while you're an incarcerated felon:

http://www.ncsl.org/research/electio...ng-rights.aspx

Quote:
Originally Posted by fish82 View Post
Interesting that they still canít own a gun, seeing as how between the two, thatís the one thatís an actual right.
Actually, they're both actual rights - enfranchisement is clearly mentioned in the 15th amendment, and referred to in others.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national...rights/278782/

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Originally Posted by domi View Post
Is there a legal precedent for denying felons their ...... right to own a gun? .
Yes, and with exceptions. See also the 1968 Gun Control Act.

From the following link: "18 U.S.C. ß 922(g)(1). It says that anyone "who has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year" is barred from possessing a gun."

https://www.williamslawonline.com/Pr...-Gun-Law.shtml
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  #17  
Old 04-20-18, 08:19 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunardo View Post

Posted by fish82 - Interesting that they still canít own a gun, seeing as how between the two, thatís the one thatís an actual right.

Actually, they're both actual rights - enfranchisement is clearly mentioned in the 15th amendment, and referred to in others.
No, they really aren't. The 15th Amendment provides the right to vote for former slaves by declaring that the "right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude."

It does NOT say that that right cannot be infringed....... just that race, color, or the fact that someone was a former slave cannot be used as the determining factor. At the time, Robert E. Lee was barred from voting and would die without having his "right" restored, so even in contemporary times there were conditions that were recognized that would allow the government to deny or abridge a "right" that was just granted. Which is interesting, there are people that say that the right to vote is absolute but the right to bear arms is "old fashioned" and should be denied.
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  #18  
Old 04-20-18, 09:37 AM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
Which is interesting, there are people that say that the right to vote is absolute but the right to bear arms is "old fashioned" and should be denied.
Who? The boogeyman?

You are probably right though. There are "people" who say voting should be restricted MUCH further but arms should include tanks and heavy artillery. See how easy that is?

I was not aware it was a states' issue before this thread to be honest. Personally my sense is that convicted felons should forfeit their right to vote while serving sentence, then restored upon release. Or perhaps after up to a year probationary period.

As for owning a weapon I will leave that up to you 2nd ammenders. If you want ex-felons to purchase weapons upon release then ok by me. Run on it.
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  #19  
Old 04-20-18, 09:58 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Many of the same people (Cuomo is a great example) that want to restrict the access to firearms (for convictions, mental issues, age, or simply because they want one) believe that a convicted felon (or illegal alien, or children) should be able to vote.

The people in Washington DC that want to greatly restrict firearms are actually considering letting HS children vote in elections. There are politicians in New York and California that think illegals should be allowed to vote because they pay taxes - those states also would restrict the right of law-abiding citizens to own a firearm.

It's not generally a State issue, many states do not restore the right of convicted felons to vote - where it has become an issue is that political parties are seeking to provide voting rights to anyone that will tip the power in their direction. They cover it up in language meant to show it's about race or fairness and not about crime and punishment.
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  #20  
Old 04-20-18, 10:03 AM
y2h y2h is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
Who? The boogeyman?

You are probably right though. There are "people" who say voting should be restricted MUCH further but arms should include tanks and heavy artillery. See how easy that is?

I was not aware it was a states' issue before this thread to be honest. Personally my sense is that convicted felons should forfeit their right to vote while serving sentence, then restored upon release. Or perhaps after up to a year probationary period.

As for owning a weapon I will leave that up to you 2nd ammenders. If you want ex-felons to purchase weapons upon release then ok by me. Run on it.
Requiring a picture ID to vote is not a restriction of voting rights, it's common sense you should have to prove you are who you say you are. The argument that this is somehow racist is one of the more insane things I've ever heard. You need an ID to buy alcohol, cigarettes, gain admittance to a bar...I think requiring it for something slightly more substantial like voting isn't asking to much.
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  #21  
Old 04-20-18, 10:03 AM
Altor Altor is offline
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I'm pretty sure the legal justification is in Amendment 5 and 14

5: No person shall ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
14: nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law

The due process in this case is the trial and conviction.

The 8th Amendment prohibits cruel and unusual punishments. I'm guessing courts have ruled that disenfranchisement and weapons restrictions is not cruel or unusual for felons.
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  #22  
Old 04-20-18, 10:29 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altor View Post
I'm pretty sure the legal justification is in Amendment 5 and 14

5: No person shall ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
14: nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law

The due process in this case is the trial and conviction.
Which allows the government to choose. A felon does not "forfeit" their right to vote if the government says they do not. There is nothing there that bans the right to vote.

I would not likely vote for any life long ban on voting for someone released from the prison sentence.
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  #23  
Old 04-20-18, 10:31 AM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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Originally Posted by y2h View Post
Requiring a picture ID to vote is not a restriction of voting rights, it's common sense you should have to prove you are who you say you are. The argument that this is somehow racist is one of the more insane things I've ever heard. You need an ID to buy alcohol, cigarettes, gain admittance to a bar...I think requiring it for something slightly more substantial like voting isn't asking to much.
Verification is established during registration process and requirements. Drivers license, state ID, ssn, etc.

You are talking about a duplicate layer to prevent in-person voter impersonation fraud, which does not exist and has been shown repeatedly to be a bogus claim that basically serves only to deter eligible voters. And that says nothing of republican efforts to reduce days, hours and locations, esp. in higher population urban areas, or democratic areas.
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  #24  
Old 04-20-18, 10:49 AM
Gh0st Gh0st is offline
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Andrew Cuomo also claims to be an undocumented immigrant and thinks the world "wop" comes from "without papers". So what he says or does has about zero credibility. I truly hope he is the next Dem candidate for President.
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  #25  
Old 04-20-18, 11:00 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
Verification is established during registration process and requirements. Drivers license, state ID, ssn, etc.

You are talking about a duplicate layer to prevent in-person voter impersonation fraud, which does not exist and has been shown repeatedly to be a bogus claim that basically serves only to deter eligible voters. And that says nothing of republican efforts to reduce days, hours and locations, esp. in higher population urban areas, or democratic areas.
Good gosh....how many days do you need to vote anyway? I believe early voting has been open now for what...2 weeks? Would you like people to vote year round?

And as far as showing proof of who you are when you vote...so what? If you were able to provide proof when you registered why can't you provide it again when you actually vote? Doesn't seem real hard. Even if the claim of in person voter fraud has been debunked as you claim, why not close the potential loophole?
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  #26  
Old 04-20-18, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
Verification is established during registration process and requirements. Drivers license, state ID, ssn, etc.

You are talking about a duplicate layer to prevent in-person voter impersonation fraud, which does not exist and has been shown repeatedly to be a bogus claim that basically serves only to deter eligible voters. And that says nothing of republican efforts to reduce days, hours and locations, esp. in higher population urban areas, or democratic areas.
You people have almost four weeks to vote pretty much everywhere. Are you seriously gonna continue crying about that?

Last edited by fish82; 04-20-18 at 12:19 PM.
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  #27  
Old 04-20-18, 12:17 PM
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The ones crying are rolling them back and inventing new obstacles, purges, and long lines. Can't have high turnout. That is a loser for Pubs. Plain and simple.
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  #28  
Old 04-20-18, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
The ones crying are rolling them back and inventing new obstacles, purges, and long lines. Can't have high turnout. That is a loser for Pubs. Plain and simple.
That's just as dumb of a take as the "millions of illegals voting" shtick. Voting is easy, and getting easier all the time.

If you can't get the job done in a four week window, then just throw another tantrum I guess.
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  #29  
Old 04-20-18, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
The ones crying are rolling them back and inventing new obstacles, purges, and long lines. Can't have high turnout. That is a loser for Pubs. Plain and simple.
Weren't you just telling us that the uneducated masses were all voting Republican now?
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  #30  
Old 04-20-18, 12:48 PM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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Weren't you just telling us that the uneducated masses were all voting Republican now?
Non-college vs. college whites. 30 point swing in 30 years.

Btw very easy to vote in non-populated rural areas. Ie. white, lol. I've never had to wait more than 5 minutes in 20 years.
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