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  #31  
Old 05-24-18, 05:14 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
I'm far from convinced that's true, at least to any significant degree. There are a ton of legitimate reasons ratings are declining(over-saturation, concussions, people watching less tv in general, etc.) but answering those questions would be a lot more uncomfortable for NFL leadership, so this was a convenient issue to cast the blame on.

My guess is the ratings will be down yet again this year and we'll get to hear how it's because players are staying in the locker room or because Tony Romo said something political during a broadcast or whatever.
The owners wouldnít have put this rule in place unless they believed the protests were costing them $.
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  #32  
Old 05-24-18, 05:31 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is online now
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I'm sure it was costing them some amount of money, but people expecting this to do much of anything to fix the ratings problem are poorly informed and/or biased. Like I said, I expect we'll hear more excuse making and deflecting blame when the ratings are down yet again this year.
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  #33  
Old 05-24-18, 05:40 PM
y2h y2h is offline
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Originally Posted by ronnie mund View Post
I will still kneel in my living room before games to show solidarity.
Solidarity with a false pretense "protest" ?

Ok.
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  #34  
Old 05-24-18, 05:59 PM
ronnie mund ronnie mund is offline
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y2h is exactly the reason this circus is still making headlines. Typical snowflake behavior.
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  #35  
Old 05-24-18, 07:20 PM
y2h y2h is offline
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Originally Posted by ronnie mund View Post
y2h is exactly the reason this circus is still making headlines. Typical snowflake behavior.
Yep expecting people to show respect is snowflake behavior. Plenty of other times to protest. Especially when the protest is under false pretenses as I said. If you want to kneel for cops are cruising around looking to commit genocide on blacks go ahead, you are free to believe any silly crap you want.

BTW I didn't burn any jerseys or boycott games so take that nonsense somewhere else.
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  #36  
Old 05-24-18, 07:31 PM
ronnie mund ronnie mund is offline
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Expecting people to show respect isn't snowflake behavior, but whining for a year plus about how the kneelers should shut the hell up or move somewhere else, suggesting those sons of bitches should be fired, and generally just being childish towards something all because you disagree with it or hate the other side is certainly snowflake behavior. And that's not to mention the jersey burning and protesting of the games.
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  #37  
Old 05-24-18, 08:36 PM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
I think the players are barking up the wrong tree. They think they have alot of support and they really don't. In fact, in the court of public opinion, they are losing big time.

When you have any people, athletic, entertainers, CEO's people who make alot of money...and they complain about work conditions to regular people, doesn't get very far. At some point the players will figure this one.
They may be barking up the wrong tree in terms of public opinion but they certainly aren't in terms of antitrust laws. And the judge or judges since the case will probably be filed and refiled in numerous districts can't make decisions of public opinion.

It's my belief one should stand for the National Anthem and it upsets me when guys don't remove their hats. I come from a LEO background which was the original reason for the protest, much of what I didn't agree with (there are bad cops though). But since the NFL and Trump want to make this about being Patriotic, it really offends me that the NFL breaks the United States Flag Code which states no part of the flag should be used in athletic uniforms....
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  #38  
Old 05-24-18, 11:49 PM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Donald Trump had an opinion on this when it happened. But for people to think he had any influence on the NFL making policy is just nutty.

And it's not aligned with his opinion anyway. If he made the rule, he's have all players stand proud for the anthem. Period.
It's debatable whether or not POTUS had any influence on the NFL policy make, here. It's not debatable, however, that he obviously did try to influence the policy make in the past. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.6fe8aa582bc8


The way I see it, let him keep talking. Hell, let's give him an open mic on this topic in particular so he can talk at length about it. The more and more he talks, with his progressing senility, the more and more stupid and illogical his 'solutions' are on this topic (oh, really, POTUS... you want to deport players who kneel for the anthem, you say? Interesting, hmm...)
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  #39  
Old 05-25-18, 01:21 AM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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The fact of the matter is the only reason why the NFL made en masse standing for the anthem and its contingent massive displays of patriotism 'a thing', back in 2009, is pure opportunism. If it can help the brand, if it can help the bottom line, then why not? Think the NFL, and the majority of its owners, actually give (or, "gave") a damn about the U.S. Military (as in, the institution of our military rather than just the concept of individual sacrifice on the part of service members?) Nope. The NFL goes back to the WW2 era; it went through Vietnam; it went through Desert Storm. It went through two wars where no one had a choice if they wanted to serve or not - we lost almost two entire generations of men (The Greatest Generation and the Baby Boomers.) Where was the giant flag being unraveled on the field then; where was the standard national anthem playing? Nowhere. What about when Pat Tillman died - where was the mandatory anthem play, with the unraveling of the flag; or during the first couple years of the Iraq War, when everyone could've used something to rally behind regardless of their thoughts on the war? Nowhere.

Lost in this whole mess is the fact that the Pentagon helped engineer sporting events into effectively PR shows for their own cause. (NPR -> https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...riotism-events)

The NFL, itself, is to blame for this entire mess. And it goes back even further than just this recent Goodell decree (owners supposedly didn't place an entire vote.) I blame the NFL for hosting its season opener on the 15th anniversary of September 11th, when it could have just as easily pushed the season back a week or only had games on the Thursday and Monday for week one. This is when Colin Kaepernick took his first knee, and when everything blew over from there. Instead, the NFL chose to play week one games on that date - full well knowing what that date and anniversary means to many people - and capitalized on the 'remembrance' aspect with its over-the-top displays; by the way, what does the military have to do with September 11th specifically? Instead of firefighters and police officers being celebrated, we celebrated (like clockwork) the military for the umpteenth time on the anniversary of the date where we lost a horrifically high amount of first responders, and on the anniversary of the date where many more first responders (such as firefighters) developed the diseases and cancers that would later kill them. Where were the cops and firemen on the field and in recognition that day? Ah, that's right, cops and firemen can't line the pockets of the NFL for paid patriotism, nor does social rhetoric in this country carry as much support for them as our Department of Defense does. The whole entire framing of the not standing for the anthem = unpatriotic narrative (a blatant bad faith interpretation, too) is entirely because the NFL makes a damn spectacle of the national anthem being played in the first place for the viewers at home, when their other professional sports peers do not (again, because of the opportunism to be had.) Tune into a regular season MLB game, NHL game or NBA game and look for a gigantic flag and national anthem playing for the TV audience - you're not likely to find one.

- - - - -

As for Goodell's "resolution", this is going to go over terribly. This was just a stupid, shooting oneself in the d*** move. And, it doesn't even seem to accomplish anything in the first place! It was rather unnecessary, in part because (as eastside_purple noted) the flame was already dying out on the protests for various reasons, but now the NFL (Goodell) reignited the flame. As Adam Schefter astutely noted on Twitter, all of the otherwise interesting and game-related storylines heading into this season (Carson Wentz, DeShaun Watson, Ryan Tannehill and Andrew Luck all returning from serious injuries; Kirk Cousins debut for Minnesota; Jon Gruden's return to the Raiders, et al) all just took a backseat to "who's going to stand for the anthem, on the field, and who's going to sit in the locker room?".

The way I see it, there was nothing wrong with the protests in the first place. Most of the people that I watch football with, who had an issue with the protests (because, "respect the flag!") were cracking Busch Lights and playing on their phone anyways, in the living room, when the national anthem was being broadcasted. I'm not inclined to care what they think about civil disobedience, in the interest of furthering a good and just conversation our society should be having, if they themselves are hypocritical about "respect the flag."
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  #40  
Old 05-25-18, 07:46 AM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
You know whatís a bigger problem? Armed black men killing armed black men. What will be the body count in Chicago this weekend? Over 10 isnít a wild guess.Focusing on police violence is a deflection bc nobody wants to admit, a lot of this violence is the Black Communityís own doing. There wasnít this kind of street violence 40 yrs ago bc a 2 parent household was normal.
It's ironic you bring up deflection since that's what this entire post is.
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  #41  
Old 05-25-18, 08:33 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
It's ironic you bring up deflection since that's what this entire post is.
Itís not a deflection. Cop killings make up a microscopic % of deaths. Black on Black killings are the bane of the reason the black community is in such awful shape.
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  #42  
Old 05-25-18, 09:25 AM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
Itís not a deflection. Cop killings make up a microscopic % of deaths. Black on Black killings are the bane of the reason the black community is in such awful shape.
You're deflecting from one problem, police conduct, to another, black on black killings. It's pretty simple. As a side note, black on black killing is not the reason the community is in awful shape, it's a byproduct.
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  #43  
Old 05-25-18, 09:33 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
You're deflecting from one problem, police conduct, to another, black on black killings. It's pretty simple. As a side note, black on black killing is not the reason the community is in awful shape, it's a byproduct.
Bc itís dumb to make such a huge deal out of something thatís not nearly the giant issue itís made out to be. And you might say the killings are a byproduct, and thatís bc the core family is almost non existent. Thatís the biggest issue, too many kids and no dads.
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  #44  
Old 05-25-18, 09:38 AM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
Bc it’s dumb to make such a huge deal out of something that’s not nearly the giant issue it’s made out to be. And you might say the killings are a byproduct, and that’s bc the core family is almost non existent. That’s the biggest issue, too many kids and no dads.
I'd argue misconduct by government employees who's salaries are paid via taxes is a big deal regardless of any other problems there may be in society. And yes, the breakdown of the black family in urban America is at the heart of the issue, but again, that doesn't mean there can't also be an issue with police conduct. Of course Kaep lost me from the beginning since he chose to make the issue about race, which it's not.
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  #45  
Old 05-25-18, 04:03 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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I'm absolutely mystified by most of what I read on here. My conclusion is the NFL can't win.
You've got both sides digging in and not budging. If you stand for the anthem and honor America, you're condoning racism and cops who beat blacks??? If you kneel for the anthem, you're disrespectful of the country and all who've fought for your freedom???

I personally think the policy this week is perfect!! It's a great common ground that says if you are on the field in a work place situation, you stand. If you are so bent that you don't agree with this, you are more than welcome to stay in the locker room. That's about as good of compromise and anyone could come up with?

And for the life of me, why does this always come back to Roger Goddell or Donald Trump?? Goddell is the commishoner of the NFL. Of course he's going to do something. And he needs to come up with a compromise for both sides, you can all him an arbitrator if you wish.

Donald Trump has nothing to do with the NFL. He's the president of the US. When Obama had a sports take, it was cute and a story. Anything Trump says is twisted into politics and money.

And you know what, the NFL owners ARE the owners. If something affects your ability to make money, you're going to do something about it. Any regular thinking person would do the same things.
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  #46  
Old 05-25-18, 04:12 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is online now
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It's worth pointing out that

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
If you stand for the anthem and honor America, you're condoning racism and cops who beat blacks???
I have heard precisely zero people make this statement.

Quote:
If you kneel for the anthem, you're disrespectful of the country and all who've fought for your freedom???
The vast majority of people on the opposite side do feel this way.
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  #47  
Old 05-25-18, 04:38 PM
zeeman zeeman is offline
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Originally Posted by ronnie mund View Post
I will still kneel in my living room before games to show solidarity.
You dig kneeling dontcha?
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  #48  
Old 05-25-18, 09:46 PM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Donald Trump has nothing to do with the NFL. He's the president of the US. When Obama had a sports take, it was cute and a story. Anything Trump says is twisted into politics and money.
When arguably the most powerful person in the entire world basically ignites this thing with his speech. Has his VP walk out of a game because a few players took an knee (a political move). Trump follows everything up by praising the rule change while adding those who stay in the locker room or take a knee should be kicked out of the country?

Where are you having trouble seeing how Trump has affected this whole situation?
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  #49  
Old 05-26-18, 07:48 AM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
I'm absolutely mystified by most of what I read on here. My conclusion is the NFL can't win.
You've got both sides digging in and not budging. If you stand for the anthem and honor America, you're condoning racism and cops who beat blacks??? If you kneel for the anthem, you're disrespectful of the country and all who've fought for your freedom???

I personally think the policy this week is perfect!! It's a great common ground that says if you are on the field in a work place situation, you stand. If you are so bent that you don't agree with this, you are more than welcome to stay in the locker room. That's about as good of compromise and anyone could come up with?

And for the life of me, why does this always come back to Roger Goddell or Donald Trump?? Goddell is the commishoner of the NFL. Of course he's going to do something. And he needs to come up with a compromise for both sides, you can all him an arbitrator if you wish.

Donald Trump has nothing to do with the NFL. He's the president of the US. When Obama had a sports take, it was cute and a story. Anything Trump says is twisted into politics and money.

And you know what, the NFL owners ARE the owners. If something affects your ability to make money, you're going to do something about it. Any regular thinking person would do the same things.
POTUS repeatedly inserted himself into the discussion for the past couple of years.

Whatever is holding Jimmy Haslam back from the best bottom line isn’t anthem protests — it’s the fact his team is terrible.
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  #50  
Old 05-26-18, 07:48 AM
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good lord 14red
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  #51  
Old 05-28-18, 08:02 PM
SLAGuy SLAGuy is offline
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Why do any players think they should be protesting anything while they are on the playing field?

What's next, NRA members carrying guns on the field?
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  #52  
Old 05-29-18, 12:44 PM
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It s a bad look for the league and unfortunate it had to come of that but the employers have the right to demand the employees to act certain ways that don't hurt the businesses image.

It is no doubt that it brought a lot of negative publicity to the business and therefore the right thing to do to make sure it stops.
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  #53  
Old 05-29-18, 02:28 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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The major issue with this is that this topic will have to be collective bargained at the next time available. Baseball and basketball has it in place, so it's never been an issue.
The national media has pushed this agenda to overkill proportions, and frankly, most normal people could really care less either way.
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  #54  
Old 05-29-18, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
It s a bad look for the league and unfortunate it had to come of that but the employers have the right to demand the employees to act certain ways that don't hurt the businesses image.

It is no doubt that it brought a lot of negative publicity to the business and therefore the right thing to do to make sure it stops.
Yeah, of course the nfl can set a rule. The issue is they acted over a year too late and the issue likely would have dissolved. Itís just a dumb move.
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  #55  
Old 05-29-18, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
The major issue with this is that this topic will have to be collective bargained at the next time available. Baseball and basketball has it in place, so it's never been an issue.
The national media has pushed this agenda to overkill proportions, and frankly, most normal people could really care less either way.
You seemed to have cared a LOT.
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  #56  
Old 05-29-18, 07:40 PM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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It's kinda funny that the Jet's CEO seems to be the one getting the most player support based off his decision not to punish or fine any players who decide to protest. He also has openly supported his players decisions since this thing started. None of them have taken a knee.

His brother is on Trump's staff.
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  #57  
Old 05-29-18, 09:50 PM
vamp2syd vamp2syd is offline
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I stopped watching NFL when this happened and found other better things to do on Sunday. NFL is a business and we are the customers, the players the employees who by the way get paid millions. I as well as the majority of customers were offended by the actions of some of the employees. It had nothing to do with what they were protesting about but in the manner they were doing it in. I am from a military family and those in my family who served were offended by this. I chose no longer to watch.

I will continue not to watch as I believe the new rules are not strong enough. Paying a silly fine when one makes millions is just a penny on a dollar. It will continue. To send a message would be to suspend players without pay. Think about what your boss would do to you if you continued to piss off customers? Why is this any different?
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  #58  
Old 05-29-18, 10:10 PM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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The key thing involved with punishing individual players is that they belong to a union and part of their collective bargaining agreement kinda stipulates how punishment can be handed out. I don't always agree with it but also respect the process.

And if Kap had a skillset of say Tom Brady, he'd still be kneeling every Sunday before taking the field to the cheers of many.

The NFL did nothing but take a league wide issue and place the burden on the individual teams. Shaun King's reporting players are going to boycott playing with the hopes of getting 25% the players to join in. It'll never happen. Player's careers are already very short on average. Very few would be willing to give up their roster spot and salary....He's also the one who reported about the false rape allegations against the Texas Trooper. He never commented when the video was released proving the claims to be false. Simply took down his social media posts.
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  #59  
Old 05-30-18, 02:49 PM
tom 48 tom 48 is offline
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Surprise, surprise. The policy was formulated at the insistence of the man who lied in saying that the kneeling was intended to disrespect the flag and servicemen, instead of protesting the police shootings of unarmed black men. Of course, the craven owners backed down and have caused more chaos. It is totally political, and you know who is in the center, where he loves to be.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...f:nbcnews:text
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  #60  
Old 05-30-18, 03:40 PM
vamp2syd vamp2syd is offline
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Surprise, surprise. The policy was formulated at the insistence of the man who lied in saying that the kneeling was intended to disrespect the flag and servicemen, instead of protesting the police shootings of unarmed black men. Of course, the craven owners backed down and have caused more chaos. It is totally political, and you know who is in the center, where he loves to be.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...f:nbcnews:text
How is an NFL football player kneeling during the anthem a protest against Police?

And, should the protest be for the shooting of unarmed instead of just black men... a mean, what about black women? Asian men? Hispanic? European?

I have not heard one case of any football player doing any other protest about this off the field. I guess it is easy to follow suit and take a knee but what are they doing to really make a difference? Are they changing the attitude that causes the escalation between cops and those who got pulled over? Are they protesting to stop committing crimes and be law abiding citizens? I support the police 100% and just like in everything there are bad apples in a bunch but if you commit a crime and get shot and killed for it regardless I am not losing any sleep over it regardless. I agree, changes are needed but it takes two to make these changes. You want to stop senseless killings? Draw attention to the gang leaders, drug lords, and protest in their front lawns. Lets clear the jails of non-violent offenders and put the violent criminals away for longer times.... Get jobs in the police force and make a difference... but who wants to be a cop now a days? I mean at any moment during any stop it could be your last. If you think about all the times someone gets pulled over across this country or police are called for domestic violence or to serve a warrant or something eventually something will go wrong. When it does it gets plastered all over. It is not fair. The abuse officers go through during a traffic stop and the restraint they show. You don't see that because it was not shown.
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