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  #1  
Old 06-22-18, 04:03 PM
Purplemojo Purplemojo is online now
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Democrats Want Open Borders

Since we get nothing but BS, double talk and lies from Democrats in Congress I will try to get some answers here.

I believe that the Democratic position on immigration at this time is unlimited immigration and open borders. This has been stated out right by a number of Democrats lately and the actions of Democrats in Congress seem to bare this out.

So, if that is not their policy, tell me what is.
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  #2  
Old 06-22-18, 04:29 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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Libertarians can't allow themselves to be caught up in the progressive calls for open borders. Their intentions and ultimate goals are too far removed from theirs for there to ever be reconciliation. They're not on your side at all; they should be your mortal enemy.

The concept is sound, the world simply isn't ready for it. Language and economic barriers, cultural and value system differences, and government preferences are too much to overcome.
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Old 06-22-18, 04:41 PM
Purplemojo Purplemojo is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
The concept is sound, the world simply isn't ready for it. Language and economic barriers, cultural and value system differences, and government preferences are too much to overcome.
Not to mention concepts of private property and the integrity of the vote and effect of the ballot box.
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  #4  
Old 06-22-18, 04:58 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is online now
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I would add PM that a disturbingly large number of republicans are also for open borders - though for different reasons.

The democrats used to be a party for working men & women and they used to favor individual rights. This could be seen by their support of labor unions and their distrust of big corporations. But that has changed and I believe the democrats have been almost completely taken over by the progressive left and now stand for:

* Exploiting peoples dependency to gain control over them. By favoring massive 3rd world migration into the US the democrats ensure a huge population of poor, unskilled people who will be dependent on government programs to survive. By definition they will form the core of a new democrat majority.

Today's democrats want to create a pseudo totalitarian government that can enact the policies they want without interference from the right and libertarians. Since installing an outright dictatorship in the US is impossible they opt for the next best thing - flood the country with dependent folks who will vote lockstep for every program the democrats advocate.

* Exploiting racial & ethnic "identity" to keep the nation divided and to separate the white majority from various minority groups. The democrats understand that the current majority American population which is of European descent, will never give a plurality of their vote to the democrats. These same deplorable's will not support gun confiscation and are leery of lavish social welfare programs.

So what do you do if you can't get the "majority" of the population to come over to your side? You change the demographics to people who will jump on your bandwagon. How do you change the demographics? You open the border to 3rd world people. The democrat party is pushing the US to become majority/minority ASAP in order to control the population better. By embracing identity over national unity the democrats have set themselves up wonderfully to rule over a majority/minority nation and their immigration policy favors open borders to achieve this.

Bottom line Trump is the first manifestation of a massive move of voters away from the democrat party - a movement which also happened under Reagan. It's funny that the biggest movement of former democrats to the republican party has occurred under the two most unconventional GOP presidents in the modern era.
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  #5  
Old 06-22-18, 05:06 PM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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Get a grip morons. Nobody is calling for open borders. Some are calling to warehouse children in dog kennels though. You have it in your feeble brains BO did nothing on border security, because you have feeble brains. I can’t fix that. Have fun.
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  #6  
Old 06-22-18, 05:14 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is online now
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Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
Get a grip morons. Nobody is calling for open borders. Some are calling to warehouse children in dog kennels though. You have it in your feeble brains BO did nothing on border security, because you have feeble brains. I can’t fix that. Have fun.
Well duh TP the democrat's aren't stupid enough to call directly for open borders. They prefer to be sneaky about it and create an environment where we have de facto open borders.

If the democrats had their way ALL 12,000,000 (or is it 20,000,000?) illegals would be granted amnesty to stay in the US. And after that the democrats would prevent the implementation of anything resembling border security while they hamstrung ICE to keep them from catching & removing illegals. And 20 years from now the democrats would argue for an amnesty to legalize 40,000,000 new illegals! Now you may not call that "open borders" but I sure do.
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  #7  
Old 06-22-18, 05:21 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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No one is calling for open borders, just like no one is calling for gun bans. Classic leftist denial
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  #8  
Old 06-22-18, 05:28 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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if you have a chance to listen to candiate Cynthia Nixon for Governor of New York( she was on sex in the city) it is what Democrats are...and she isn't afraid to say it.....
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  #9  
Old 06-22-18, 05:30 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
Get a grip morons. Nobody is calling for open borders. Some are calling to warehouse children in dog kennels though. You have it in your feeble brains BO did nothing on border security, because you have feeble brains. I can’t fix that. Have fun.
the heck they aren't...
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  #10  
Old 06-22-18, 06:46 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
Get a grip morons. Nobody is calling for open borders.
The same way no one is talking about confiscating guns or that abortions should be rare.
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  #11  
Old 06-22-18, 07:01 PM
Summa Summa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
Libertarians can't allow themselves to be caught up in the progressive calls for open borders. Their intentions and ultimate goals are too far removed from theirs for there to ever be reconciliation. They're not on your side at all; they should be your mortal enemy.

The concept is sound, the world simply isn't ready for it. Language and economic barriers, cultural and value system differences, and government preferences are too much to overcome.
I don’t see the world ever being ready for it. Humans are tribal by nature and that will never change. Head over to the high school football forum and see for example. You can also watch the South Park atheists war episode.
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  #12  
Old 06-22-18, 07:32 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
Get a grip morons. Nobody is calling for open borders. Some are calling to warehouse children in dog kennels though. You have it in your feeble brains BO did nothing on border security, because you have feeble brains. I can’t fix that. Have fun.
Progressives and leftists never make a move for what they are truly after. The movement is akin to the frog in the pot. By the time everyone recognizes the problem it's "too late" to get out.

As many have noted noted, Obama actually deported many people, but he had the government deport only illegal aliens that committed violent crimes after being here. For millions and millions of criminal aliens he essentially gave them amnesty to come in, find some place to lay low, gave them coverage, and turned the backs of the federal government on their criminal enterprise. So now we have 12-20 million unindicted criminals that would be extremely costly to round up and send packing - for the citizenry we are now trapped in the boiling water.

To truly get out of this, we have to control our borders and force the criminal aliens to leave the country and make it inhospitable for them to remain. Build a wall, physical AND virtual, and make it impossible for criminal aliens to remain - or so costly and inhospitable that they don't want to remain.
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  #13  
Old 06-22-18, 07:57 PM
Gh0st Gh0st is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
Get a grip morons. Nobody is calling for open borders. Some are calling to warehouse children in dog kennels though. You have it in your feeble brains BO did nothing on border security, because you have feeble brains. I can’t fix that. Have fun.
So what is your immigration policy? I've asked this like 15 times and just get shown a picture of a kid in a cage from 2014.
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  #14  
Old 06-23-18, 08:16 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is online now
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Isn't it funny how this is the question that should be at the center of this debate but hardly anyone ever asks?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.953918a3935b

Does the United States — population 320 million and rising — need more people? If so, why?

To most ears, the question sounds blasphemous, which illustrates the rottenness of our immigration debate. Actually, “debate” is far too generous. One side has made sure that there is no debate. Good people want more immigration, and bad people object or raise questions. An inherently political issue has been effectively rendered religious, with the righteous on one side, sinners on the other.


This is a fair question that should be answered by those promoting high rates of legal immigration and amnesty for those who came here illegally. As for those advocating "open borders" this is a question that must be answered if we are to take them seriously. And when I say advocating open borders I'm including supporting policies (opposition to a wall and favoring catch & release as two examples) that lead to de facto open borders.

So again: Why do we need more people? For the extra traffic congestion? More crowded classrooms? Longer emergency room and Transportation Security Administration lines? Higher greenhouse-gas emissions?

We know how more immigration benefits big business and the Democratic Party. No one has yet convincingly explained how it benefits the American people as a whole. That’s the foremost consideration that should drive our immigration debate, and that’s what should determine our immigration policy.


A question worth repeating that demands an HONEST answer from the democrats. Instead they try to shut down debate by framing opposition to illegal migration as "racist". Just observe how Yappi's resident left wingers debate this topic and they are just the uniformed tip of the progressive left iceberg waiting to sink this country.
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  #15  
Old 06-23-18, 08:22 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is online now
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And this is what lax border control and favoring open borders leads to:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/8831860...including.html

Eleven MS-13 gang members – all of whom are illegal immigrants except one – are facing life in prison after being charged in the kidnappings and deaths of two teens whose bodies were dug up in a Virginia park last year. The ages of the male gang members charged Friday ranged from 20 to 27. All of them are from El Salvador and only one – who is believed to have fled the country – is not in police custody, according to NBC Washington.

Of course this story probably isn't getting much play on the National news shows but then again they keep telling us that this sort of thing is very rare and 99.9% of the illegal migrants are "good" people looking for a better life.

We are being taken for fools and used as tools by the progressive left on this topic.
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  #16  
Old 06-23-18, 08:52 AM
zeeman zeeman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
And this is what lax border control and favoring open borders leads to:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/8831860...including.html

Eleven MS-13 gang members – all of whom are illegal immigrants except one – are facing life in prison after being charged in the kidnappings and deaths of two teens whose bodies were dug up in a Virginia park last year. The ages of the male gang members charged Friday ranged from 20 to 27. All of them are from El Salvador and only one – who is believed to have fled the country – is not in police custody, according to NBC Washington.

Of course this story probably isn't getting much play on the National news shows but then again they keep telling us that this sort of thing is very rare and 99.9% of the illegal migrants are "good" people looking for a better life.

We are being taken for fools and used as tools by the progressive left on this topic.
You do realize lotr that their side will win eventually? It is inevitable, albeit sad. You can see the momentum building toward open conflict and I truly hope I’m wrong but history shows that I’m probably right. This country will change and not for the better I’m afraid. What’s fascinating to me is how many people can be persuaded by the media instead of relying on multiple sources of info and their own gut feelings of what’s right and wrong.
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  #17  
Old 06-23-18, 09:11 AM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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Originally Posted by Gh0st View Post
So what is your immigration policy? I've asked this like 15 times and just get shown a picture of a kid in a cage from 2014.
First you would have to concede that neither of us would agree with everything in it, and you don't seem like the type who could. Along with some of your friends here. That is why we are in this boat.

In 2013 the Senate passed a very strong, comprehensive, and bipartisan bill by 68-32. Think of that. The House easily had the votes also, but as typical, the "you people" would not allow a vote.

To answer your question I would have voted for it. Some of the details: https://www.politico.com/story/2013/...-passes-093530

Fast forward today: Pubs have the House and the Senate, and a self-described "master negotiator" who sold himself on "making deals" and bringing sides together. Draft a Senate bill with 60+ votes let alone 68, and allow a House vote, and I will be fine with it. You?
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  #18  
Old 06-23-18, 09:30 AM
zeeman zeeman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
First you would have to concede that neither of us would agree with everything in it, and you don't seem like the type who could. Along with some of your friends here. That is why we are in this boat.

In 2013 the Senate passed a very strong, comprehensive, and bipartisan bill by 68-32. Think of that. The House easily had the votes also, but as typical, the "you people" would not allow a vote.

To answer your question I would have voted for it. Some of the details: https://www.politico.com/story/2013/...-passes-093530

Fast forward today: Pubs have the House and the Senate, and a self-described "master negotiator" who sold himself on "making deals" and bringing sides together. Draft a Senate bill with 60+ votes let alone 68, and allow a House vote, and I will be fine with it. You?
I would of voted for that bill also. Why was the agreement that was reached earlier in Trumps term tabled?
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  #19  
Old 06-23-18, 09:57 AM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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Originally Posted by zeeman View Post
I would of voted for that bill also. Why was the agreement that was reached earlier in Trumps term tabled?
The buck stops at Trump. The Deal Maker. He openly pledged to sign whatever compromise bill could get the votes and "take the heat" for it, but when presented with just that, he reneged. Basically buckled under pressure from far right and Miller wing of his WH.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/polit...ger/index.html
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  #20  
Old 06-23-18, 10:28 AM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is online now
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I would vote for this woman in Texas

https://www.mjfortexas.com/

Maybe one of the best campaign ads I have seen
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  #21  
Old 06-23-18, 10:46 AM
zeeman zeeman is online now
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Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
The buck stops at Trump. The Deal Maker. He openly pledged to sign whatever compromise bill could get the votes and "take the heat" for it, but when presented with just that, he reneged. Basically buckled under pressure from far right and Miller wing of his WH.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/polit...ger/index.html
So was there a bill on his desk, ready to sign?
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  #22  
Old 06-23-18, 10:58 AM
Caleb Caleb is offline
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Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
First you would have to concede that neither of us would agree with everything in it, and you don't seem like the type who could. Along with some of your friends here. That is why we are in this boat.

In 2013 the Senate passed a very strong, comprehensive, and bipartisan bill by 68-32. Think of that. The House easily had the votes also, but as typical, the "you people" would not allow a vote.

To answer your question I would have voted for it. Some of the details: https://www.politico.com/story/2013/...-passes-093530

Fast forward today: Pubs have the House and the Senate, and a self-described "master negotiator" who sold himself on "making deals" and bringing sides together. Draft a Senate bill with 60+ votes let alone 68, and allow a House vote, and I will be fine with it. You?
So I read that article and here's my problem with all politicians. When they mention border security in the article they never tell you what that is. If you ask a hundred people you will get a hundred different answers. So I have to ask the question what does border security look like to a democrat?
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  #23  
Old 06-23-18, 10:59 AM
Gh0st Gh0st is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
The buck stops at Trump. The Deal Maker. He openly pledged to sign whatever compromise bill could get the votes and "take the heat" for it, but when presented with just that, he reneged. Basically buckled under pressure from far right and Miller wing of his WH.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/polit...ger/index.html
It doesn't stop with Trump, he isn't responsible for passing laws. The bills have failed in the Senate most of the time. The bipartisan "solution" has always revolved around:

1) Pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants living in the U.S

2) Saving DACA

3) Funding for real border security

4) Ending chain migration

The bill you are referring to was a sham from the moment it was written. The Republicans have voted in favor of offering amnesty to 1.8 million undocumented immigrants, the bill pushed that number. The bill protected every DACA immigrant.

Zero dollars were appropriated for border security. On top of that it demanded alternatives to the wall be pursued. Chain migration not addressed at all. Sanctuary cities also not addressed at all.
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Old 06-23-18, 11:31 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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So was there a bill on his desk, ready to sign?
No. So Trump is supposed to sign imaginary legislation I guess.
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Old 06-23-18, 11:45 AM
USA70PP USA70PP is offline
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In 2013 the Senate passed a very strong, comprehensive, and bipartisan bill by 68-32. Think of that. The House easily had the votes also, but as typical, the "you people" would not allow a vote.

Was there a reason four years passed after his election before Obama was able to do anything?
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Old 06-23-18, 11:57 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by USA70PP View Post
In 2013 the Senate passed a very strong, comprehensive, and bipartisan bill by 68-32. Think of that. The House easily had the votes also, but as typical, the "you people" would not allow a vote.

Was there a reason four years passed after his election before Obama was able to do anything?
He had to get Obamacare through first.
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  #27  
Old 06-23-18, 01:33 PM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is online now
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The Most Rev. Dennis Schnurr, leader of the archdiocese's 461,000 members, sent a letter late Friday afternoon to his priests and deacons, encouraging them to address the government's taking and detaining 2,300 migrant children who crossed into the United States.

"Events of this past week provided a galvanizing moment for Catholic social teaching," Schnurr writes. "I echo my brother bishops, and Pope Francis himself, in condemning the practices of family separation that were taking place at an unprecedented rate on our nation’s southern border.

"The human family is the most fundamental building block of society. … This is a universal truth that applies to families who have U.S. citizenship, those who were born in other places, and even those who have crossed our borders without permission."
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Old 06-23-18, 01:37 PM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is online now
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VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Pope Francis said he stands with the U.S. bishops who recently condemned the Trump administration's policy on immigration that has led to children being held in government shelters while their parents are sent to federal prisons.

"I am on the side of the bishops' conference," Pope Francis said in an interview with the Reuters news agency, published online June 20. "Let it be clear that in these things, I respect (the position of) the bishops' conference."

On the first day of their June 13-14 spring assembly in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, Cardinal Daniel N. DiNardo of Galveston-Houston, president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, read a statement on behalf of the bishops denouncing the government's zero-tolerance policy.

"Families are the foundational element of our society, and they must be able to stay together. While protecting our borders is important, we can and must do better as a government, and as a society, to find other ways to ensure that safety. Separating babies from their mothers is not the answer and is immoral," the statement said.

http://www.catholicnews.com/services...ion-policy.cfm
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  #29  
Old 06-23-18, 01:39 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
"The human family is the most fundamental building block of society. … This is a universal truth that applies to families who have U.S. citizenship, those who were born in other places, and even those who have crossed our borders without permission."
Which makes it even more tragic that over 80% of the minors separated from their parents came to America after being abandoned by their parents, many the victims of violence, rape, and human traffickers on their journey

But we are the bad guys.
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  #30  
Old 06-23-18, 01:43 PM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is online now
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According to the Catholic Bishops and the Pope. Yes you are.
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