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  #181  
Old 04-26-18, 01:20 PM
jtk jtk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrogate View Post
National average for starting out is just under 39,000. National average for teachers is 58,950. I wouldn't say either average is "criminally underpaid" if the benefits/pensions promised are honored. Obviously it is an average and different from state to state so certain states probably do deserve more but to say the majority sre criminally underpaid is absurd.

40,000 starting out for 9 months of work, benefits, pension. Not a bad gig
im pretty sure that teachers pay into their benefits and/or pension from that salary. plus health care is a big cut. i would venture to say 1500 a month to those? so 40 goes to 28,000 pretty quick?

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  #182  
Old 04-26-18, 02:37 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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that's a good one...
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Originally Posted by ronnie mund View Post
Good for the teachers. They're criminally underpaid in most parts of the country and deserve to be paid more. Their task is to educate entire generations and should be compensated as such.
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  #183  
Old 04-26-18, 02:40 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by ronnie mund View Post
I wouldn't mind seeing teachers make at least $50,000+. This would vary from state to state obviously, since cost of living is different everywhere. Obviously this money doesn't come out of thin air, you'd have to take from other areas. First thing I'd do is end the War on Drugs immediately. That frees up tens of billions of dollars that is currently going to waste. Marijuana should be federally legalized. States that have legalized it are putting revenue from that back into education, which is a great idea. Just a few ideas.

Also, I want it so that there is an incentive to become a teacher. The job as is isn't very attractive because the pay sucks. There also has to be some give on the teachers side as well. Bad teachers need to go. Similar to police unions, the jobs are too safe.
Three incentives to be teachers, and it's always worked....June, July and August...in no other profession than education do you get full time pay for part time work.
Also remember that teacher salaries are can only be made by the budgets of each state and school district. You want to increase teacher pay, then it's going to come at the expense of some other state funded entity (law enforcement, security, roads, etc. )
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  #184  
Old 04-26-18, 02:42 PM
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eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
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It really bothers you they get the summer off, doesn’t it?
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  #185  
Old 04-26-18, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ronnie mund View Post
Didn't he say he works at a place where he is unable to negotiate his salary? That's gotta be what's eating at him.
Pretty sure he said he hasnít had a raise in 7 yrs and heís okay with that.
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  #186  
Old 04-26-18, 02:46 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by ronnie mund View Post
I wouldn't mind seeing teachers make at least $50,000+. This would vary from state to state obviously, since cost of living is different everywhere. Obviously this money doesn't come out of thin air, you'd have to take from other areas. First thing I'd do is end the War on Drugs immediately. That frees up tens of billions of dollars that is currently going to waste. Marijuana should be federally legalized. States that have legalized it are putting revenue from that back into education, which is a great idea. Just a few ideas.

Also, I want it so that there is an incentive to become a teacher. The job as is isn't very attractive because the pay sucks. There also has to be some give on the teachers side as well. Bad teachers need to go. Similar to police unions, the jobs are too safe.
You make starting salaries $50,000 and you'll have people coming from other professions to be teachers...I support the end of funding on the war on drugs, we've been wasting money with that crap for years. Telling people to not use drugs obviously doesn't work, even when it's evident everyday. But I don't want to legalize it. Why? Only the very, very few percent that use it for medicine where they have no alternatives can use it. Otherwise, it's illegal.
You'll never get bad teachers to go with a union, union are all about protecting jobs.
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  #187  
Old 04-26-18, 03:07 PM
Raider6309 Raider6309 is offline
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I never understood why teachers make a wide range of salaries. The bad teachers teach at poor schools and the good teachers teach at rich schools. Should be the opposite
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  #188  
Old 04-26-18, 03:15 PM
ronnie mund ronnie mund is offline
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I never understood why teachers make a wide range of salaries. The bad teachers teach at poor schools and the good teachers teach at rich schools. Should be the opposite
Or get rid of bad teachers.
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  #189  
Old 04-26-18, 03:20 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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I never understood why teachers make a wide range of salaries. The bad teachers teach at poor schools and the good teachers teach at rich schools. Should be the opposite
Good teachers don't want to put up the crap they have to take at poor schools...you seriously can't understand this? It's why so many in education end up adjunct professors at universities. Anyone can teach kids who are good kids who want to be there. Teach the 12 year old with a horrible home life and no motivation to make anything of themself?

I've always said we need to thin the ranks. When you turn 16, you can choose if you want to continue school. If not, go away, good luck. We waste so much time and money for kids who aren't going to be productive citizens anyway. Go work at what ever jobs you can find and stop being disruptive for the kids who want to learn. We could probably consolidate and close alot of city schools doing this, and the job market would be replenished. We would also be able to eliminate alot of teaching jobs and help that shortage out as well, no one wants to teach at those schools anyway.
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  #190  
Old 04-26-18, 05:12 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by Raider6309 View Post
I never understood why teachers make a wide range of salaries. The bad teachers teach at poor schools and the good teachers teach at rich schools. Should be the opposite
I wonder how good the good teachers would be, if they taught at the poor schools and how good the poor teachers would be, if they taught at the rich schools.

And it's odd how good teachers become bad teachers as the neighborhood around the school declines. Crazy coincidence.

smh
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  #191  
Old 04-26-18, 05:13 PM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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Originally Posted by jtk View Post
im pretty sure that teachers pay into their benefits and/or pension from that salary. plus health care is a big cut. i would venture to say 1500 a month to those? so 40 goes to 28,000 pretty quick?

jtk
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Yes and 90 days off with paid vacation. Pretty good gig.

Starting out should probably be a little bit higher but you cant ignore the time off when paying someone. What do you think they should make? What should they make starting out?
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  #192  
Old 04-26-18, 06:04 PM
ogealbhain ogealbhain is offline
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
i wonder how good the good teachers would be, if they taught at the poor schools and how good the poor teachers would be, if they taught at the rich schools.

And it's odd how good teachers become bad teachers as the neighborhood around the school declines. Crazy coincidence.

Smh
+1
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  #193  
Old 04-26-18, 07:01 PM
scbuckeye99 scbuckeye99 is offline
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I'll add to the discussion by simply saying with a BA and 13 years (currently finishing year 14) in South Carolina I make a little over $47,000. Add to that an additional $2k for my swim coaching duties, another $2k for my wrestling coach duties and another $2k for my asst. AD duties and I make a little over $53,000 a year. My take home percent is about 53%, so I take home about $2,300.00 a month. I feel that my district has done a good job of keeping my base teacher pay ahead of inflation. We typically receive a 3% COL of adjustment every 3 years which doesn't hurt.

I work a summer job as a pool manager at a local water park that provides an additional $6,000.00 before taxes over the summer months.

So all in all I make CLOSE to $60k working literally 12 months a year. I put in around 30-35 hours a week at the pool during June July and part of August (up until school begins again).

I'm gonna wager that I probably put in 60 hours a week during the school year. Arrive at school normally at 7:30 am and on most nights it's not until 7:30 when I leave school. Wrestling season, November through Feb its probably more like 8:30 when I leave school. Swim season isn't as bad. Spring season 2 days a week I'm probably able to go home twice a week at a decent hour (sometimes right after school). So i'll stick with the 60 hours a week roughly when you spread / even it all out.

I'm gonna say i work roughly 2,500 hours during the school year (these are physical hours spent at school or being present at school related functions.....swim practice, meets, wrestling practice, wrestling tournaments, etc.....)

Add to that the 350 hours I put in each summer at the water park you're talking now maybe 2,850 hours a year working. If you wanna get down to the nitty gritty I probably am valued at $21.00 / hour between both jobs haha.

I believe I make a fair amount of money for the time I put in at both jobs. Enough to provide a mildly comfortable lifestyle. I can NOT however say this for all teachers. Especially first year teachers. Just this year I've discussed with veteran co-workers how we ever "made it" as first year teachers. First year teacher pay in my district has been very stagnant. While you do receive a fair deal as you progress in terms of seniority, being a first year teacher financially can be rough. Again, I'm not sure how I ever survived haha. But somehow it happened.....so far lol.

I'll close by saying that I have purchased a fair amount of wrestling shoes over the years for those kids who could not afford that purchase and other wise would not have wrestled for me.

(for Ohioans who are confused swimming is in the fall in SC and wrestling still in the winter just like in the great white north).
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  #194  
Old 04-26-18, 07:20 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by Arrogate View Post
Yes and 90 days off with paid vacation. Pretty good gig.

Starting out should probably be a little bit higher but you cant ignore the time off when paying someone. What do you think they should make? What should they make starting out?
They're not paid for the time off.

What they should make? They should make whatever their contract negotiates. We all know there are momentums at play but it is a community's job to keep checks and balances. If they don't, if they let the board fill with cronies, that's the inattentiveness of the people at play. Blame them, not the people asking for the money.

A community, particularly a difficult community like many urbans, would be wise to fight the typical union step into a compression scale so that a larger percentage goes to the newer teachers. People who can afford to settle in a community, are more likely to stay in the community. Most businesses know this, hence compression scaling. Paying your long term teachers to live in the burbs... dumb. But state has ruled communities cannot force non-admin to live within the community. Smart urban districts, of which there are few, do not make the jobs attractive. They rarely get young new hires into jobs that encourage teacher retention. Salary isn't there. Some are doing, something I suggested over a decade ago, providing housing as a perk. Great way to start out a new teacher. If you can't compete salary wise, compete with perks. Most entertainment, arts and leasure, is still within the urban boundaries. Membership perks... Still taxable but invests young people into the community at a fourth the cost.
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  #195  
Old 04-26-18, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
They're not paid for the time off.

What they should make? They should make whatever their contract negotiates. We all know there are momentums at play but it is a community's job to keep checks and balances. If they don't, if they let the board fill with cronies, that's the inattentiveness of the people at play. Blame them, not the people asking for the money.

A community, particularly a difficult community like many urbans, would be wise to fight the typical union step into a compression scale so that a larger percentage goes to the newer teachers. People who can afford to settle in a community, are more likely to stay in the community. Most businesses know this, hence compression scaling. Paying your long term teachers to live in the burbs... dumb. But state has ruled communities cannot force non-admin to live within the community. Smart urban districts, of which there are few, do not make the jobs attractive. They rarely get young new hires into jobs that encourage teacher retention. Salary isn't there. Some are doing, something I suggested over a decade ago, providing housing as a perk. Great way to start out a new teacher. If you can't compete salary wise, compete with perks. Most entertainment, arts and leasure, is still within the urban boundaries. Membership perks... Still taxable but invests young people into the community at a fourth the cost.
Pretty sure teachers don't want to get raped or murdered living in the ghetto. Maybe that might of flew back in the day. But today teachers are constantly under attack by the students and then their worthless parents.
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  #196  
Old 04-27-18, 02:23 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
They're not paid for the time off.

What they should make? They should make whatever their contract negotiates. We all know there are momentums at play but it is a community's job to keep checks and balances. If they don't, if they let the board fill with cronies, that's the inattentiveness of the people at play. Blame them, not the people asking for the money.
Agree and disagree, you see the state sets a total they give for each student based on enrollment. It's not all local money. So the issue becomes when there are big swings in enrollment, or obviously the issue today with many teacher contracts is the continued increases in health care costs. Well it that cost becomes more taken out of teacher pays so their take home shrinks. Kind of like the rest of us working schmucks. But no, they want the same take home, taxpayers to foot the extra for health care and that money comes from where???
I think teacher's pay should be based on the communities they teach in and how much the district can afford to pay for the teachers. Another issue is the unions don't allow for eliminating jobs to keep within a budget, or are limited in doing so.

I just hope these states that are bowing down to the unions are also publically stating where they are taking money from to increase teacher pay and benefits. Tell taxpayers that they'll have crappy roads and bridges, and less police and first responders, but they teachers will be happy.
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  #197  
Old 04-27-18, 02:27 PM
arizonawildcat arizonawildcat is offline
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Well, with the Arizona teachers out, I can now use the track at the middle school any time I want. So there's some good coming out of this.
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  #198  
Old 04-27-18, 02:29 PM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Agree and disagree, you see the state sets a total they give for each student based on enrollment. It's not all local money. So the issue becomes when there are big swings in enrollment, or obviously the issue today with many teacher contracts is the continued increases in health care costs. Well it that cost becomes more taken out of teacher pays so their take home shrinks. Kind of like the rest of us working schmucks. But no, they want the same take home, taxpayers to foot the extra for health care and that money comes from where???
I think teacher's pay should be based on the communities they teach in and how much the district can afford to pay for the teachers. Another issue is the unions don't allow for eliminating jobs to keep within a budget, or are limited in doing so.

I just hope these states that are bowing down to the unions are also publically stating where they are taking money from to increase teacher pay and benefits. Tell taxpayers that they'll have crappy roads and bridges, and less police and first responders, but they teachers will be happy.
Arent teachers typically paid better in more affluent areas? For example a teacher in Sycamore will be paid more than one in Clermont

I thought local communities had a big say in what their teachers get paid....am i wrong on that?
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  #199  
Old 04-27-18, 02:36 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by scbuckeye99 View Post
I'll add to the discussion by simply saying with a BA and 13 years (currently finishing year 14) in South Carolina I make a little over $47,000. Add to that an additional $2k for my swim coaching duties, another $2k for my wrestling coach duties and another $2k for my asst. AD duties and I make a little over $53,000 a year. My take home percent is about 53%, so I take home about $2,300.00 a month. I feel that my district has done a good job of keeping my base teacher pay ahead of inflation. We typically receive a 3% COL of adjustment every 3 years which doesn't hurt.

I work a summer job as a pool manager at a local water park that provides an additional $6,000.00 before taxes over the summer months.

So all in all I make CLOSE to $60k working literally 12 months a year. I put in around 30-35 hours a week at the pool during June July and part of August (up until school begins again).

I'm gonna wager that I probably put in 60 hours a week during the school year. Arrive at school normally at 7:30 am and on most nights it's not until 7:30 when I leave school. Wrestling season, November through Feb its probably more like 8:30 when I leave school. Swim season isn't as bad. Spring season 2 days a week I'm probably able to go home twice a week at a decent hour (sometimes right after school). So i'll stick with the 60 hours a week roughly when you spread / even it all out.

I'm gonna say i work roughly 2,500 hours during the school year (these are physical hours spent at school or being present at school related functions.....swim practice, meets, wrestling practice, wrestling tournaments, etc.....)

Add to that the 350 hours I put in each summer at the water park you're talking now maybe 2,850 hours a year working. If you wanna get down to the nitty gritty I probably am valued at $21.00 / hour between both jobs haha.

I believe I make a fair amount of money for the time I put in at both jobs. Enough to provide a mildly comfortable lifestyle. I can NOT however say this for all teachers. Especially first year teachers. Just this year I've discussed with veteran co-workers how we ever "made it" as first year teachers. First year teacher pay in my district has been very stagnant. While you do receive a fair deal as you progress in terms of seniority, being a first year teacher financially can be rough. Again, I'm not sure how I ever survived haha. But somehow it happened.....so far lol.

I'll close by saying that I have purchased a fair amount of wrestling shoes over the years for those kids who could not afford that purchase and other wise would not have wrestled for me.

(for Ohioans who are confused swimming is in the fall in SC and wrestling still in the winter just like in the great white north).
Congrats to you and your work ethic, that's great. You are the exception rather than the rule. You do have a great summer job opportunity, many teachers - if they want to work- are doing painting, construction type work.

I'm not going to dispute your claims on the hours you work during the school year, I think it's kind of high, but again, it's your calculation and I have no idea. I do know that a typical, 40 hour per week employee is roughly at 2,080 hours, not deducting holidays and vacation, although those are about a wash as everyone gets those. Not sure you could be over 2,500 hours when you have multiple school holidays off and a couple of weeks at Christmas and spring break...but again, that's your claim.

I've always worked in the private sector, and based on job and industry, you do sometimes get raises. I know personally there is no such thing as a guaranteed raise like a union contract stipulates, there is also no COL adjustment. I'm had the same pay for 4-5 years now, no adjustment, no raises. I've even herd of some industries were pay cuts are not unusual. At the end of the day, we are solely sustainable. We can't ask the government for a handout, or ask taxpayers to help us out. Many of us in the private sector, while we appreciate the work teachers do, never understand the constant griping about work conditions and pay. You have no idea. Check that, a teacher married to a person with a regular job probably does understand.

Honestly, for a starting wage in any field of $47,000 - with 3 months off in the summer - is phenomenal, IMO.
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  #200  
Old 04-27-18, 03:11 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is offline
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I'm had the same pay for 4-5 years now, no adjustment, no raises.
What a bit*h
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  #201  
Old 04-27-18, 03:13 PM
ronnie mund ronnie mund is offline
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Yeah, that's bad.
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  #202  
Old 04-27-18, 03:22 PM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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Says he will take your word on how much you work then in the next few sentences questions how much you actually worked
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  #203  
Old 04-27-18, 03:23 PM
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What industries are taking pay cuts?
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  #204  
Old 04-27-18, 03:26 PM
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14red hasn’t had a raise in 5 yrs? Wow. I have to question his work ethic and ambition level.
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