Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority  

Go Back   Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority > Girls HS Sports > Girls Soccer

Hello Guest!
Take a minute to register, It's 100% FREE! What are you waiting for?
Register Now
Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-30-18, 10:48 PM
soccerfan63 soccerfan63 is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 07-17-17
Posts: 104
soccerfan63 is on a distinguished road
subs coming off the field

Just a minor gripe here, but I wish the officials association would realize that HS games are not professional games with 3 subs the entire game. To waste 15-20 seconds for every sub coming off the field by making the incoming player wait is just stupid. How much time is wasted over the course of a game by doing this? I realize that the laws of FIFA probably state this but to do this in a game with unlimited subs just takes too much time off the clock. Especially when players walk over. Also, why suddenly do this in a regional match when it has not been done this way all year? Really kills the flow of the game.

Maybe some officials on this board can enlighten me.....
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 10-30-18, 11:07 PM
Conan73 Conan73 is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 02-10-16
Posts: 184
Conan73 is on a distinguished road
In the pros, coaches will sometimes introduce a sub to disrupt the flow the game. However, the refs are allowed to add extra time for substitutions. I suppose that a high school ref could stop the clock, but itís not worth it for 15-20 seconds.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-31-18, 08:00 AM
phatneff phatneff is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 12-08-04
Posts: 742
phatneff is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by soccerfan63 View Post
Just a minor gripe here, but I wish the officials association would realize that HS games are not professional games with 3 subs the entire game. To waste 15-20 seconds for every sub coming off the field by making the incoming player wait is just stupid. How much time is wasted over the course of a game by doing this? I realize that the laws of FIFA probably state this but to do this in a game with unlimited subs just takes too much time off the clock. Especially when players walk over. Also, why suddenly do this in a regional match when it has not been done this way all year? Really kills the flow of the game.

Maybe some officials on this board can enlighten me.....
In what game did you see this? I saw it in the Mason/Loveland game last night, too, and was wondering if that was the CR's preference or a directive by OHSAA for these regional and state matches.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-31-18, 08:37 AM
soccerfan63 soccerfan63 is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 07-17-17
Posts: 104
soccerfan63 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by phatneff View Post
In what game did you see this? I saw it in the Mason/Loveland game last night, too, and was wondering if that was the CR's preference or a directive by OHSAA for these regional and state matches.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Mason-Loveland and that is the first time I had seen it this season.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-31-18, 11:13 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 04-04-12
Location: North Side
Posts: 9,824
EastYoungstown will become famous soon enough
If the ref feels subs are excessive or are taking too long the clock can be stopped.

In the last game i was at it was done twice.

It's the right thing to do.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-31-18, 07:00 PM
MJ_SoccerRef MJ_SoccerRef is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 11-08-11
Posts: 390
MJ_SoccerRef is on a distinguished road
Generally we will permit play to restart IF the subs approaching the bench area will not be near where the restart is taking place. IF teams begin to sub frequently in the 2nd half, trying to milk he clock in a close game, especially in the post-season or key conference games, most of us will stop the clock & inform said HC that it will stop every time they choose to sub.

However, "by the book", having the in-coming subs wait until the players they are replacing are at least VERY near to the bench before coming on IS the technically correct procedure......
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-31-18, 07:49 PM
soccerfan63 soccerfan63 is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 07-17-17
Posts: 104
soccerfan63 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ_SoccerRef View Post
Generally we will permit play to restart IF the subs approaching the bench area will not be near where the restart is taking place. IF teams begin to sub frequently in the 2nd half, trying to milk he clock in a close game, especially in the post-season or key conference games, most of us will stop the clock & inform said HC that it will stop every time they choose to sub.

However, "by the book", having the in-coming subs wait until the players they are replacing are at least VERY near to the bench before coming on IS the technically correct procedure......
First of all, I want to complement the officials I have seen this season, I think they have been excellent. (not that I am the be all judge of such things, just want to make it clear that this is not meant to be a ref-bashing thread).

I wonder if the practice of waiting for the subs to come off the field completely was meant for games with unlimited subs. Not even considering time-wasting intentionally, I just think it takes too much time off the clock and kills the flow of the game.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-31-18, 07:59 PM
Hoosier Parent Hoosier Parent is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 04-27-16
Posts: 347
Hoosier Parent is on a distinguished road
I wonder about not calling fouls in the box. I watched MND take MC (Beavercreek) out of the game early with excessive physical play. She had her legs taken out from in the box early. She was brought down from behind shortly after, just outside the box with another no call. She finally got the call around midfield. She eventually got a couple more and eventually persevered.

I'd argue it's known your less likely to get the call in the box, but that was a bit excessive.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-01-18, 12:10 PM
HSfooty1977 HSfooty1977 is offline
Junior Varsity
 
Join Date: 09-13-15
Posts: 42
HSfooty1977 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier Parent View Post
I wonder about not calling fouls in the box. I watched MND take MC (Beavercreek) out of the game early with excessive physical play. She had her legs taken out from in the box early. She was brought down from behind shortly after, just outside the box with another no call. She finally got the call around midfield. She eventually got a couple more and eventually persevered.

I'd argue it's known your less likely to get the call in the box, but that was a bit excessive.
Perspective plays a large role. Was it a foul? Was her legs taken out or just your perspective from the stands? Most quality officials at every level, will blow the whistle more in the middle of the field to control the game, as opposed to in the box. But as a wise man once said, "a foul is a foul, no matter where your at on the field".
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-01-18, 12:32 PM
Hoosier Parent Hoosier Parent is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 04-27-16
Posts: 347
Hoosier Parent is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by HSfooty1977 View Post
Perspective plays a large role. Was it a foul? Was her legs taken out or just your perspective from the stands? Most quality officials at every level, will blow the whistle more in the middle of the field to control the game, as opposed to in the box. But as a wise man once said, "a foul is a foul, no matter where you're at on the field".
You're right on all accounts. I was sitting in the stands 70 yards away and did not have the best angle for either play. I based my assessment on the fact the defender came through the offensive player on one play and tripped the offensive player on the other, and did not see the ball change trajectory during the play, suggesting the defender didn't touch the ball on either play, but took the offensive player out of the play.

I would say that most referee's give the defender the benefit of the doubt in the defensive 18 and I don't know that it's a bad thing. I do feel those plays set the tone for that game and changed the trajectory of the game until the final 20 minutes or so. I would rather Refs being conservative in the box, than giving PK's all willy nilly.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-01-18, 09:43 PM
soccerfan63 soccerfan63 is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 07-17-17
Posts: 104
soccerfan63 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by HSfooty1977 View Post
Perspective plays a large role. Was it a foul? Was her legs taken out or just your perspective from the stands? Most quality officials at every level, will blow the whistle more in the middle of the field to control the game, as opposed to in the box. But as a wise man once said, "a foul is a foul, no matter where your at on the field".
I don't agree with that "foul is a foul" comment. A PK can be a game winner in many games and in my opinion, it should be a clear, obvious foul. Sometimes a questionable foul at midfield can be used to settle the game down, and that same call should not be made in the box. I am sure I will have refs disagree with me on this, but I just hate seeing the game decided by a PK. Let the players decide the game. My opinion is that most professional (EPL, international, MLS, etc.) refs call it that way but many HS refs seem to have a different take on it.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-01-18, 10:21 PM
MJ_SoccerRef MJ_SoccerRef is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 11-08-11
Posts: 390
MJ_SoccerRef is on a distinguished road
When I Center, my instructions to my ARs, regarding defensive fouls in the Penalty Area, is this: when you see something in the PA that appears to be a PK-foul.....look to me before giving the 'Pop & Shake'......I will indicate (through pre-arranged signals & words) whether I had a clear angle & evaluate that contact as, at worst, "Trifling" and thus a 'no call'; ALL 'trifling' fouls should be 'no calls'. IF, however, I was screened and again give the pre-agreed upon indicators that I'm looking for their help........my advice is then this: "Make sure the defender 'got their money's worth'......that it's a $79.95 Foul from Macy's, and not a 99 cent special from Dollar General."

To your point, Soccerfan63, if a player doesn't want to be called for a PK foul, DEFEND BETTER / SMARTER! If there is indeed a foul in the Penalty Area that DESERVES to be called, SHOULD be called, and the Center doesn't make that call.....are we not then "deciding the outcome", by NOT 'getting it right'? I would add that having played Keeper in my youth & early adulthood......without ANY DOUBT......every PK I have ever whistled came on a play where said defender made a completely horrible choice against that attacker. The bottom for me as an Official is two-fold: "Get It Right".

I will add this point RE 'officiating mechanics', that is the approach of FIFA / USSF, that many of us carry over to NFHS play:The AR is NOT supposed to call fouls that they are certain the Center has had a clear view of, but rather ONLY those we are reasonably certain he did not see from his angle. In essence, therefore, contrary to what many non-Officials / Spectators / Coaches / Players and other life forms might THINK.......those 3 Officials do NOT have "equal responsibilities" when it comes to calling fouls. We're not ref'n basketball......
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-01-18, 10:28 PM
MJ_SoccerRef MJ_SoccerRef is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 11-08-11
Posts: 390
MJ_SoccerRef is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier Parent View Post
I would say that most referee's give the defender the benefit of the doubt in the defensive 18 and I don't know that it's a bad thing. I do feel those plays set the tone for that game and changed the trajectory of the game until the final 20 minutes or so. I would rather Refs being conservative in the box, than giving PK's all willy nilly.
I tend to be very proactive with players......I talk to them as much or more than the majority of Officials; some might say 'too much'. Perhaps when play then carries into a PA, they know I'm watching closely, etc.

To your point I put in bold.....IF I see a foul in the Penalty Area that I KNOW I would whistle at mid-field, we WILL have a PK restart. That's not "Willy Nilly". That IS being consistent, and applying the Rules accurately, honestly. And, no, I don't award more PKs than what others do.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-02-18, 04:10 PM
IcyCoolDevil IcyCoolDevil is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 08-28-06
Posts: 286
IcyCoolDevil is on a distinguished road
I find it interesting that there is no introduction to this discussion of the possibilities of advantage, or of attacker initiating contact, or flopping. I see as many, or more, of these situations in the PA than defenders 'taking out' attackers.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-02-18, 09:35 PM
Hoosier Parent Hoosier Parent is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 04-27-16
Posts: 347
Hoosier Parent is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ_SoccerRef View Post
I tend to be very proactive with players......I talk to them as much or more than the majority of Officials; some might say 'too much'. Perhaps when play then carries into a PA, they know I'm watching closely, etc.

To your point I put in bold.....IF I see a foul in the Penalty Area that I KNOW I would whistle at mid-field, we WILL have a PK restart. That's not "Willy Nilly". That IS being consistent, and applying the Rules accurately, honestly. And, no, I don't award more PKs than what others do.
Sorry if I offended you Ref, I was just suggesting that based on my experience, referees tend to be more conservative on those calls in the box than midfield and pointing out that was better than the alternative of referees of various degrees of experience, using various level of discretion on such a game turning call.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-04-18, 01:14 PM
soccerfan63 soccerfan63 is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 07-17-17
Posts: 104
soccerfan63 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ_SoccerRef View Post
When I Center, my instructions to my ARs, regarding defensive fouls in the Penalty Area, is this: when you see something in the PA that appears to be a PK-foul.....look to me before giving the 'Pop & Shake'......I will indicate (through pre-arranged signals & words) whether I had a clear angle & evaluate that contact as, at worst, "Trifling" and thus a 'no call'; ALL 'trifling' fouls should be 'no calls'. IF, however, I was screened and again give the pre-agreed upon indicators that I'm looking for their help........my advice is then this: "Make sure the defender 'got their money's worth'......that it's a $79.95 Foul from Macy's, and not a 99 cent special from Dollar General."

To your point, Soccerfan63, if a player doesn't want to be called for a PK foul, DEFEND BETTER / SMARTER! If there is indeed a foul in the Penalty Area that DESERVES to be called, SHOULD be called, and the Center doesn't make that call.....are we not then "deciding the outcome", by NOT 'getting it right'? I would add that having played Keeper in my youth & early adulthood......without ANY DOUBT......every PK I have ever whistled came on a play where said defender made a completely horrible choice against that attacker. The bottom for me as an Official is two-fold: "Get It Right".

I will add this point RE 'officiating mechanics', that is the approach of FIFA / USSF, that many of us carry over to NFHS play:The AR is NOT supposed to call fouls that they are certain the Center has had a clear view of, but rather ONLY those we are reasonably certain he did not see from his angle. In essence, therefore, contrary to what many non-Officials / Spectators / Coaches / Players and other life forms might THINK.......those 3 Officials do NOT have "equal responsibilities" when it comes to calling fouls. We're not ref'n basketball......
I think this is a real good point. I can't tell you how many times I cringe at defenders with two hands on a striker with the ball and being physical with them in the box. Play with fire and sometimes you get burned, and a savvy striker (not too many at the HS girls level, maybe boys) will take advantage of that recklessness and take a dive. Even with that, sometimes a player just stumbles and falls or gets pushed and the call is made, rightfully so. The defender is just being sloppy and stupid and gets the call against them.

I like your comments on the AR, wish and hope all Centers take that approach. Good to know that you are communicating with the AR at such a high level.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-10-18, 02:16 PM
soccerfan63 soccerfan63 is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 07-17-17
Posts: 104
soccerfan63 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ_SoccerRef View Post
Generally we will permit play to restart IF the subs approaching the bench area will not be near where the restart is taking place. IF teams begin to sub frequently in the 2nd half, trying to milk he clock in a close game, especially in the post-season or key conference games, most of us will stop the clock & inform said HC that it will stop every time they choose to sub.

However, "by the book", having the in-coming subs wait until the players they are replacing are at least VERY near to the bench before coming on IS the technically correct procedure......
SO MJ Soccer Ref- I am assuming this is NOT the same crew that did the Strongsville-Twinsburg game? I find it hilarious that in one game refs allow 12 players on the field for 6-10 minutes and in another the refs are so anal about substitution procedures. Ironic that I posted this just a week before the Strongsville game....
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-10-18, 07:31 PM
MJ_SoccerRef MJ_SoccerRef is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 11-08-11
Posts: 390
MJ_SoccerRef is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by soccerfan63 View Post
SO MJ Soccer Ref- I am assuming this is NOT the same crew that did the Strongsville-Twinsburg game? I find it hilarious that in one game refs allow 12 players on the field for 6-10 minutes and in another the refs are so anal about substitution procedures. Ironic that I posted this just a week before the Strongsville game....
First of all, it's not about "being anal"......it is the correct procedure for substituting, period. Secondly, NOTHING about this unfortunate event is 'hilarious'........and I'm certain no one feels worse about it than that officiating crew.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-10-18, 07:36 PM
MJ_SoccerRef MJ_SoccerRef is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 11-08-11
Posts: 390
MJ_SoccerRef is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier Parent View Post
Sorry if I offended you Ref, I was just suggesting that based on my experience, referees tend to be more conservative on those calls in the box than midfield and pointing out that was better than the alternative of referees of various degrees of experience, using various level of discretion on such a game turning call.
Not offended at all, H.P.....the problem with the written word at times: without inflection, the 'spirit' of what is written can be misunderstood.

Also, with regard to fouls in the PA........a great many of us, likely the vast majority, use what many professional levels referees use: 'silent advantage'......letting that play run it's course for a few extra seconds, to see IF the attackers still a shot off, or a chance for one, WITHOUT actually signaling advantage. That could, MAYBE, come into play with 'no calls' in the PA that you see.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-12-18, 09:01 AM
belied dat belied dat is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 03-20-08
Location: not Ohio
Posts: 446
belied dat is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by soccerfan63 View Post
SO MJ Soccer Ref- I am assuming this is NOT the same crew that did the Strongsville-Twinsburg game? I find it hilarious that in one game refs allow 12 players on the field for 6-10 minutes and in another the refs are so anal about substitution procedures. Ironic that I posted this just a week before the Strongsville game....
When they do their jobs properly, now it's being "anal."

Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-12-18, 05:32 PM
MJ_SoccerRef MJ_SoccerRef is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 11-08-11
Posts: 390
MJ_SoccerRef is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by belied dat View Post
When they do their jobs properly, now it's being "anal."

B.D.........."anal" must be the Millennial term for "by the book".........
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cops on the field @ Infocision game SeeYaSometime Football 54 10-12-17 08:35 AM
XIT 12/16/17 looking for 4 more team to make a field of 16! MSU2016 Tournaments looking for teams, open tournaments, wrestling camps/clubs, etc. 5 09-11-17 07:31 AM
How many games will Canton McKinley win this coming season??? IUDOGS Football 45 08-16-17 09:05 AM
Who is going to win the Federal League this coming season???? IUDOGS Football 17 07-27-17 01:04 PM
Winton Woods field and track resurface warriorblue Football 5 06-08-17 06:44 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:45 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Registration Booster - Powered By Dirt RIF CustUmz