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  #1561  
Old 06-08-17, 10:05 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Phillips wasn't going to be happy on this team on the bench. On a team full of young guys, they don't need that type of toxicity. I'm starting to wonder how much you actually know about the Reds.

It was a good trade.
That's Price's job to deal with. That's what managers do.
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  #1562  
Old 06-08-17, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
I bet you are.
Absolutely, they were able to give Peraza more playing time and acquire Gennett as well. Two young guys who will contribute far more than Phillips over the next 5-10 yrs.
  #1563  
Old 06-08-17, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
That's Price's job to deal with. That's what managers do.
Price probably knows more than you and recommended trading him. Good call.
  #1564  
Old 06-08-17, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Absolutely, they were able to give Peraza more playing time and acquire Gennett as well. Two young guys who will contribute far more than Phillips over the next 5-10 yrs.
Not surprisingly you've missed the point entirely. Phillips was replaced by Alcantara, not Gennett or Peraza. Alcantara performs worse for more money than Phillips. That makes it a bad trade.
  #1565  
Old 06-08-17, 10:12 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
That's Price's job to deal with. That's what managers do.
Um he did.
  #1566  
Old 06-08-17, 10:13 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
Phillips was replaced by Alcantara,
Nope.
  #1567  
Old 06-08-17, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Price probably knows more than you and recommended trading him. Good call.
I certainly hopes he knows more about this team than me. It is his job after all.
If he reccommened to have Phillips traded because of fear of clubhouse issues then he isn't doing his job. Players don't have to like their roles, just do them.
  #1568  
Old 06-08-17, 10:17 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Nope.
Sure he was. Alcantara plays 2b as a backup. Same thing Phillips should have been doing.
  #1569  
Old 06-08-17, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
Not surprisingly you've missed the point entirely. Phillips was replaced by Alcantara, not Gennett or Peraza. Alcantara performs worse for more money than Phillips. That makes it a bad trade.
Roster spot, but not playing time.

Gennett's played 2b in 23 games; Alcantara has played second in 6 games. It's pretty clear trading Phillips opened up time for Gennett at 2b this year.
  #1570  
Old 06-08-17, 10:21 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Um he did.
So Price is the one who traded him? I thought Dick Williams was the GM. I'm starting to wonder how much you know about Reds baseball.
  #1571  
Old 06-08-17, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Roster spot, but not playing time.
Playing time is determined by the Manager not the player.
  #1572  
Old 06-08-17, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
Playing time is determined by the Manager not the player.
So are you griping the Reds didn't have Phillips for those 6 games Alcantara played 2b? That seems kinda stupid.
  #1573  
Old 06-08-17, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
I certainly hopes he knows more about this team than me. It is his job after all.
If he reccommened to have Phillips traded because of fear of clubhouse issues then he isn't doing his job. Players don't have to like their roles, just do them.
Nope, actually that his is job.
  #1574  
Old 06-08-17, 10:35 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
Sure he was. Alcantara plays 2b as a backup. Same thing Phillips should have been doing.
So let me get this straight. You'd be perfectly fine with the Reds keeping Phillips as a back up because he's hitting 0.297? You wouldn't be complaining that he's a back up and not a starter? You're so full of it.
  #1575  
Old 06-08-17, 10:35 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
So Price is the one who traded him? I thought Dick Williams was the GM. I'm starting to wonder how much you know about Reds baseball.
Well you'd have a great point if that's what I said. He dealt with it by recommending the trade. You're starting to rival 14Red for dumbest poster, congrats.
  #1576  
Old 06-08-17, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
Not surprisingly you've missed the point entirely. Phillips was replaced by Alcantara, not Gennett or Peraza. Alcantara performs worse for more money than Phillips. That makes it a bad trade.
There were two main reasons for trading Phillips (and remember I wanted to keep Phillips):
1. Jose Peraza needs to play major league baseball. Putting him in LVille another season wouldn't have made sense. The rebuild is on and having a 35 year old 2nd baseman made no sense.

2. It would not have worked with BP as a platoon role (like Alcantra/ Gennett) He wants to play everyday. I also think there is an unspoken issue with BP in the clubhouse. We saw the selfie taking/ smiling guy that loved to play everyday. I think in the clubhouse he was a loner, kept to himself and did not mix well with the other guys. Evidence by him publicly criticizing the team last weekend for giving away his number 4 already. He also balked at any on field presentations the club was planning like they did with Jay Bruce last year. At some point players need to realize it's time to move on. BP didn't show much class last weekend, IMO, and I'm a fan of his.
  #1577  
Old 06-08-17, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
Why would Phillips take Peraza's playing time? Nothing says that Phillips had to start. Alcantara is getting Phillips playing time as a bench player. Alcantara has worse numbers for more money.

It was a bad trade.
Wait, you started the argument that this was a bad trade because BP is having a very productive season. But then you turn it into a salary discussion, and then you say he could have stayed on the bench? Are you drunk or mentally handicapped? If he is on the bench what is the point of his productivity in the argument?

You missed the entire point. 14Red started to get it right, then he turned it into "drama in the locker room", which no professional or grown up gives a rats tail about. Here is the point:

- off season the Reds know they are in full blown rebuild mode
- rebuilds do not include 35 year old 2B that over overpriced
- Peraza needs to play every day
- Reds did not expect to be in the hunt like they are. If they did, they may have kept BP around.

It was a smart trade. You are not a smart person.
  #1578  
Old 06-08-17, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
So are you griping the Reds didn't have Phillips for those 6 games Alcantara played 2b? That seems kinda stupid.
No, I'm griping about how dumb of a trade it was. It didn't make sense from a performance or business point of view.
That makes it a bad trade.
  #1579  
Old 06-08-17, 11:01 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
So let me get this straight. You'd be perfectly fine with the Reds keeping Phillips as a back up because he's hitting 0.297? You wouldn't be complaining that he's a back up and not a starter? You're so full of it.
I would have benched Phillips last season in favor of Peraza for two reasons. 1) Peraza needed the playing time as he is the future 2) because Phillips refused to be traded in the previous off-season. I would have made it clear to him and any other 5/10 guy that they don't have the leverage they think they do.

Basically the Reds allowed Phillips to control the situation and ended up paying him to play elsewhere. Cutting him would have been a better move than trading him.

It was a bad trade.
  #1580  
Old 06-08-17, 11:02 AM
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Alcantara has a whole 18 at-bats while playing second base this year. Apparently indianadad thinks it was dumb to trade Phillips because of those at-bats. You can't make up this kind of stupidity.
  #1581  
Old 06-08-17, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
I would have benched Phillips last season in favor of Peraza for two reasons. 1) Peraza needed the playing time as he is the future 2) because Phillips refused to be traded in the previous off-season. I would have made it clear to him and any other 5/10 guy that they don't have the leverage they think they do.

Basically the Reds allowed Phillips to control the situation and ended up paying him to play elsewhere. Cutting him would have been a better move than trading him.

It was a bad trade.
  #1582  
Old 06-08-17, 11:10 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
Wait, you started the argument that this was a bad trade because BP is having a very productive season. But then you turn it into a salary discussion, and then you say he could have stayed on the bench? Are you drunk or mentally handicapped? If he is on the bench what is the point of his productivity in the argument?

You missed the entire point. 14Red started to get it right, then he turned it into "drama in the locker room", which no professional or grown up gives a rats tail about. Here is the point:

- off season the Reds know they are in full blown rebuild mode
- rebuilds do not include 35 year old 2B that over overpriced
- Peraza needs to play every day
- Reds did not expect to be in the hunt like they are. If they did, they may have kept BP around.

It was a smart trade. You are not a smart person.
The Reds benefited in no way from that trade. Peraza could have gotten playing time regardless of Phillips.
Cutting Phillips would have had the same effect for playing time and essentially financially but a far longer and deeper impact on 5/10 players wanting to exercise their no trade clause.

The statistical part of my argument was to show the hypocrisy of the argument of others regarding certain players. Some posters just think the name on the back of the jersey is all that matters. They'll argue that stats matter for some players but not for others. That's Stupid.

Of course those posters obliged.

The fact you can't see that hypocrisy is not surprising.
  #1583  
Old 06-08-17, 11:12 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Alcantara has a whole 18 at-bats while playing second base this year. Apparently indianadad thinks it was dumb to trade Phillips because of those at-bats. You can't make up this kind of stupidity.
At no point in this thread did I say that.
  #1584  
Old 06-08-17, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
At no point in this thread did I say that.
Of course you did, you even made the point that Alcantara took his spot and should be the guy to compare Phillips to. You certainly didn't want to compare him to Gennett whose 27 games at 2b would be what Phillips would get (+Alcantara's 6) if he were the backup.
  #1585  
Old 06-08-17, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Of course you did, you even made the point that Alcantara took his spot and should be the guy to compare Phillips to. You certainly didn't want to compare him to Gennett whose 27 games at 2b would be what Phillips would get (+Alcantara's 6) if he were the backup.
Alcantara is the last position player on the roster (non catcher), Phillips was traded for essentially no net financial gain. His spot was therefore filled by Alcantara.

I said nothing about his at bats.
  #1586  
Old 06-08-17, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
Alcantara is the last position player on the roster (non catcher), Phillips was traded for essentially no net financial gain. His spot was therefore filled by Alcantara.

I said nothing about his at bats.
that's not even a good dodge of semantics.
  #1587  
Old 06-08-17, 11:43 AM
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EP wants a player to leadoff that has an OBP of .350 as long as it isn't Phillips whom the Reds are paying to play for the Braves. He would rather it be Peraza who has a .280 OBP. Peraza had a good month of May which is good enough for EP. However when Cozart has a good year his numbers will revert back to sucking so know one will want him.
So it is ok for one player to improve and not another?
Try using a consistent argument.
  #1588  
Old 06-08-17, 11:46 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Welp, 14Red has passed on the torch. I hope to see IndianDad in other parts of Yappi too
  #1589  
Old 06-08-17, 11:47 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
EP wants a player to leadoff that has an OBP of .350 as long as it isn't Phillips whom the Reds are paying to play for the Braves. He would rather it be Peraza who has a .280 OBP. Peraza had a good month of May which is good enough for EP. However when Cozart has a good year his numbers will revert back to sucking so know one will want him.
So it is ok for one player to improve and not another?
Try using a consistent argument.
A 23 year old who will, almost certainly, improve vs. a 31 year old who is on a hot streak and will revert to the back of his baseball card.
  #1590  
Old 06-08-17, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
A 23 year old who will, almost certainly, improve vs. a 31 year old who is on a hot streak and will revert to the back of his baseball card.
Cozart was once that "young" guy who struggled to hit. He improved, got seriously injured and is now healthy.

I guess Cozart wasn't eligible to improve, just "get hot".
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