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  #1  
Old 04-06-18, 12:09 PM
FOOTBALLGUYDT FOOTBALLGUYDT is offline
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Delaware Hayes HC is open where do they go next?

Happy Retirement to Coach Golden and all he's done. So where does Delaware go next?
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  #2  
Old 04-06-18, 03:54 PM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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Where do they "GO" next? My best guesses are Fish , Back to the drawing board , or just Out to play may be
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Old 04-06-18, 04:09 PM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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Delaware: the lacrosse school that tries desperately to be a force in football.
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Old 04-06-18, 04:40 PM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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They aren't that good in Lacrosse
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Old 04-06-18, 07:23 PM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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Yeah, they aren't really good at anything other than occasionally being solid in wrestling and basketball.

Tough to figure out their legacy of mediocrity. Not a bad demo. No nearby catholic or private school poaching kids. Just average to bad in just about everything. Odd.
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  #6  
Old 04-06-18, 08:59 PM
FOOTBALLGUYDT FOOTBALLGUYDT is offline
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There’s been coaches who’ve came through and then went else where and had success. Honestly I think it’s keeping kids interested and they’ve been bad for so long kids don’t want to come out. Thinking a coordinator from a school with some success can come in and maybe take the time build it. Not sure would just like to see them better. There’s been flashes but never turned into long term success.
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Old 04-07-18, 06:03 AM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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Last time made the play-offs? Off the top of my head I remember them making it in 2008, I remember that because Coffman missed out that year , and I was thinking that Delaware was definitely not a better team than the Rocks which is something that happens all the time , harbin problems losing some close games whatever, but is that the last time ?
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Old 04-07-18, 09:47 AM
Iroquois Iroquois is offline
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Wrestling is always solid, but they just lost there head wrestling coach to the new Olentangy.
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  #9  
Old 04-07-18, 01:01 PM
FOOTBALLGUYDT FOOTBALLGUYDT is offline
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Yeah that’s the last time they got in. Problem is they just need some new blood someone who’s not been HC and let them build the program from the ground up. It’s tough to win there and I don’t know why. But if the right guy comes in who knows. With the way the OCC is changing again might benefit them too.
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  #10  
Old 04-08-18, 08:05 AM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iroquois View Post
Wrestling is always solid, but they just lost there head wrestling coach to the new Olentangy.
If by "always" you mean recently, I 100% agree. Below are their Darby district finishes since 2008:

2008 36th
2009 33th
2010 40th
2011 42th
2012 19th
2013 10th
2014 4th
2015 9th
2016 4th
2017 7th
2018 23th

I don't see them returning to the Top 10 next year. I'm guessing Coach Heff didn't either.

Maybe I should have said "occasionally good" instead of "occasionally solid". Not sure that is much of a salve.

Nonetheless, the general premise stands. Their athletic resume is pretty thin. Next time you're in the school, look at their trophy cases and the Wall of Fame. I think you'll be surprised how generally sparse it is for a school that has been a round for so long.

I'm not trying turn this into a bash fest. I generally root for Delaware. I find no reason to root against them. I think they have generally good, tough kids. I just don't know why they seem to be so mediocre in so many sports. Enrollment wise, they are on par with Kilbourne, Westerville North, Westerville South, New Albany, and are far bigger than Big Walnut. Each of those schools are at least consistently good in something. In football, of the above teams, only Westerville North is consistently worse than Delaware and they have the OE/IB excuse at least, Delaware doesn't have that. Westerville probably loses a lot more kids to the CCL than Delaware does.

As I've said before, I think they have a decent sports demographic. Enough money to have decent resources, but not so much that the kids are soft. They certainly don't have Coffman's "Asian problem". I'm curious what their participation rates are like relative to other schools. I would presume they are on par with other schools. Perhaps it is an administration that doesn't fully support athletics or maybe they have a harder time getting good coaches being that far removed from the outer belt.
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Old 04-08-18, 09:27 AM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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No Asian 'Problem" at all in Dublin , the state's most Asian percentage of population city in Ohio raises the bar academically for all students . I never said it was a '
'Problem" , just a fact , Sorry that the 'boss sees it that way though.
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  #12  
Old 04-08-18, 01:52 PM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrycrane View Post
They aren't that good in Lacrosse
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambeau Fields View Post
Yeah, they aren't really good at anything other than occasionally being solid in wrestling and basketball.

Tough to figure out their legacy of mediocrity. Not a bad demo. No nearby catholic or private school poaching kids. Just average to bad in just about everything. Odd.

OK, OK... I said "school", when "community" would have been a more apt comment. Delaware, for the most part, lacks an identity in pretty much every major sport. Except, however, lacrosse. Lacrosse is pretty well impressed into the community of Delaware - that's a fact. When your high school has won two state titles in lacrosse this decade, when the only professional sports franchise of recent memory that the town has seen (since relocated, not the point) is a Major League Lacrosse franchise, when the college you are home to has one of the best lacrosse programs in Division III (which is very competitive) and when instructional lacrosse programs and leagues for children of all ages are widely visible in the spring, summer and fall times when you drive by the public parks and fields, you're far more of a "lacrosse community" than you are a "football town." Factor in recent population changes in Delaware, to where the higher-income population is starting to move in, and you have a contact sport that has as much buoyancy in the community as high school football does in a small town.

Now... is Delaware's lack of football trajectory solely a product of lacrosse prominence in the Home of Hayes? No, but you can certainly attribute at least some of it to the stick game.

LF - you compare Delaware to a few other northerly suburban communities. All of those communities (except maybe Westerville North?) have football impressed into the town, and have for quite some time. Why Delaware has never really had much of a football impression into the community, I'm not entirely sure. I do know for a fact that the administration at Delaware does care about sports. They understand what good sports programs can mean for their school community and the community at-large, and they understand the value of extracurricular activities. I think they do have a hard time holding onto solid football coaches. Golden is an institution, and I'm sorry to see him retire. Zebb obviously saw greener pastures and went to Orange. Maybe you're onto something about Delaware's geography possibly inhibiting the attraction of new coaches. It can be very difficult to get from Point A to Point B at any time of the day if one of those two points is southern Delaware county/northern Franklin and the other is Delaware.

The fact of the matter is that Delaware is likely going to be D1 for a long while. The district is enrolling an additional 200 students every year (direct quote from a primary source within the administration), and the administration expects that growth to keep coming. We all know that Delaware County is one of the fastest-growing counties in the entire country, but we forget that part of that growth is also focused in the community of Delaware. By 2020, the City of Delaware may reach 40,000 residents. For context, the population was 34k in 2010 and 25k in 2000. The one thing to pay close attention to, however, is how many of these new families are going to be purchasing property within the Delaware City School(s) District as opposed to the Olentangy district. Remember, Berlin is pretty close to Delaware. Maybe not so much the central core of the city, but the annexations and far reaches? Oh yeah.
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Old 04-08-18, 02:00 PM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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umm sorry Doc , they won it at the 'CLUB" level didn't beat the big boys of UA or Jerome or Coffman Kilbourne et al, were you under the impression that they won REAL D-1 Lacrosse titles ? May be they are a Lacrosse 'Community" BUT club level ?
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  #14  
Old 04-08-18, 02:02 PM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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Regarding Delaware and attrition to private schools...

Delaware residents are assigned to Bishop Watterson. Delaware really only loses a few kids every class to Watty. They lose more to St. Charles than they do any of the co-eds. I think they also lose a few kids here and there to Worthington Christian. I think the bigger factor that private schools have on Hayes and athletics is the potential for lack of cohesion. Delaware has a Catholic grade school that usually has 35-to-40 kids in each class, with a long wait list. There's also a Christian school that has 20 or so kids a class. If Delaware were a "one school, one town" type of community, a la Marysville or Marion, I would suspect they would be marginally better at sports.
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Old 04-08-18, 02:34 PM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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umm sorry Doc , they won it at the 'CLUB" level didn't beat the big boys of UA or Jerome or Coffman Kilbourne et al, were you under the impression that they won REAL D-1 Lacrosse titles ? May be they are a Lacrosse 'Community" BUT club level ?
And your point is... what, exactly? They won a state title. In fact, they won two. Whether or not they won the "REAL D-1", is, uh, irrelevant. Furthermore, you conveniently are leaving out that the reason why Hayes played as a club, and not in Division I, was because provisions within the OHSLA at that time allowed for teams to let kids from other schools to play on a given school's lacrosse team, given that the team would agree to play under the "club" designation. In Delaware's case, it was a student from Delaware Christian and a student from Buckeye Valley. They wanted to play in the club division so those kids would have a chance to play. "Club" is not a designation of a team's aptitude in a given sport. In fact, some would suggest that the "club" teams can play with the "big boys".
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Old 04-08-18, 02:36 PM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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No Asian 'Problem" at all in Dublin , the state's most Asian percentage of population city in Ohio raises the bar academically for all students . I never said it was a '
'Problem" , just a fact , Sorry that the 'boss sees it that way though.
For years you have lamented on the Huddle and now on here about how Coffman did not have the right football "demos" because of the percentage of Asian/south-Asian students that compose their student body.
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Old 04-08-18, 03:10 PM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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Are you suggesting they are as good the last decade of the aforementioned programs or other top teams from other parts of the state ? Yiu seem to act as if you are really immersed in the Delaware lacrosse scene , may be you are but you still sound like you don’t have a clue what you are talking about if you think Delaware competes for a D-1 lacrosse tithe but keep going you sound really smart .

Yes I was needling WB a bit I have mentioned the demo because that stuff matters and it’s not the best . Not a problem though Coffman has enough kids go out regardless. My only point was obvious the number is may be a bit misleading for Coffnan in that one sport . That’s all . You always say it’s evened out a bit by money so go to that well again that’s OK . But as far as the lacrosse thing? Quit while you are behind
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Old 04-08-18, 03:37 PM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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Originally Posted by Harrycrane View Post
Are you suggesting they are as good the last decade of the aforementioned programs or other top teams from other parts of the state ? Yiu seem to act as if you are really immersed in the Delaware lacrosse scene , may be you are but you still sound like you don’t have a clue what you are talking about if you think Delaware competes for a D-1 lacrosse tithe but keep going you sound really smart .

Yes I was needling WB a bit I have mentioned the demo because that stuff matters and it’s not the best . Not a problem though Coffman has enough kids go out regardless. My only point was obvious the number is may be a bit misleading for Coffnan in that one sport . That’s all . You always say it’s evened out a bit by money so go to that well again that’s OK . But as far as the lacrosse thing? Quit while you are behind
I'm not entirely sure what your deal is, but as someone who has lived in Delaware and who frequently is in Delaware for work purposes I am particularly confident in what I'm putting down. They think of it as a state title, it is a state title, and the rest of the state recognizes them as a state champion. You seem to be hung up on the fact they won it under a club designation, who cares if they won it as a club? They won - get over it.

You're the one who said that they didn't win a "REAL" title, whatever that means. What a loser, you are.
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Old 04-08-18, 03:48 PM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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Schizo smack ? Right on Brother , nice work . Get over something I don't care about? DONE, I'm over it . Hung up on something I couldn't give a triple flusher crap about ? Again DONE poof like a toddlers balloon in the wind.

All I said was they aren't 'THAT" good in Lacrosse that's all , you went ton great lengths to tell me I'm wrong , 'A loser" and schizo , oh and that club Lacrosse teams in High schools are as good as the ones that play for a 'REAL " state title . Sorry man didn't know of your personal connection to their program , but the school has 1500 kids, are you telling me they play at the club level because they just want to let kids play for their program that aren't students of the school?

For instance Club hockey teams are made up of kids from multiple schools FOR A REASON , are you saying the club champ in that sport can skate with and hang with Iggy St Ed's or University School? You win, Delaware lacrosse is awesome and impacts the football program because kids dream of Lacrosse club champs heroes .

I wish Delaware luck in their coaching search going forward and that they can get to a higher level and build the program , it has potential .
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  #20  
Old 04-08-18, 07:00 PM
WJ-OSU-STEELERS WJ-OSU-STEELERS is offline
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Harrycrane & The Dock - it's been an interesting 'discussion' you two have had regarding Delaware's football & lacorsse programs. No football, NCAA basketball just concluded so I have some time on my hands and will give my 2 cents. Delaware football has had little success, their only playoff appearance was in 2008 but they did have a respectable showing, losing to Pickerington Central (13-1) 38-21. Maybe/probably Dublin Coffman (10th in the computer rankings) might have been better than Delaware (6th in the computer rankings) but the Harbon football ratings have basically been the same since they were implemented in 1972: You get points for winning and the better the team and size of the school you beat the more points you get. Dublin Coffman was 7-3 but five of their wins were vs teams that had 2 wins or less that year. Yes, their 3 losses were to teams that won 9+ games each but if your truly a playoff team Dublin finds a way to win one of those to make it. Both teams has 1 common opponent in 2008, Olentangy Liberty. Dublin beat them 10-7 in wk 1 and Delaware lost to them 28-22 in overtime in wk 3. Dublin & Delaware appear to be pretty close in 2008. The Harbon ranking is not perfect but I think it works just fine with about 30% of the football playing schools making the playoffs.

As for the larger number of Asian population at Coffman, I think it's a little to non factor. Hey if you can find 11 quality guys to go out and play on a Friday night out of 600+ boys in a Div I program then one would have some serious problems. Dublin's fielded competitive teams over the years, saying they can't do this or that because of a large number of students who are not inclined to play football is disrespectful to the Dublin players, coaches & football program. Div II can be just as hard to win a state title in as Div I, just ask Massillon Washington.

As for lacrosse, just this year it became a sanctioned sport for the OHSAA and it's only classified as an emerging sport because there was only 122 schools playing lacrosse in 2016 and another 18 schools playing it as a club sport. However a state title is a state title and if I was Delaware, I'd count it as well.

Finally, as for a football coach at Delaware I think they should look at some of the smaller schools. The coach at London is the brother to the Upper Arlington head coach and he went to school at Jonathan Alder. He's made London competitive in a short period of time, that is where I would look first if I was the Delaware AD.

Last edited by WJ-OSU-STEELERS; 04-08-18 at 07:11 PM.
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Old 04-08-18, 07:10 PM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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non factor ? So basically your student body demo is a non factor ? Ok make youR case with the BEST public school teams year in and year out IN THE LAST 10 YEARS { No exceptions to prove some stupid rule} and tell me what you find sir? No affect a nothing burger you say right?

Never said it was a problem getting enough kids to go out , I responded to someone's claim of Coffman's number being bigger larger than they anticipated, I merely said that considering that about 17 percent of the boy population of Coffman is basically not going to play the sport that may be just may be that number and demo wasn't quite the same as most others seeing as Dublin has the largest percentage of Asians of any other Ohio community . Please keep arguing .

yes Delaware is the King of Ohio lacrosse I have already conceded that point. I wasn't arguing semantics or whether or not Hayes hangs a banner in their school , I am sure they do but I will say as far as Lacrosse goes for a 1500 student school ?


MEH

Last edited by Harrycrane; 04-08-18 at 07:12 PM. Reason: Ohio
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Old 04-08-18, 07:15 PM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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Coffman that year had chances to beat those play off teams , lost by 4 points to Davidson and 1 point to UA , 10 points in their egg layer game vs. Kilbourne , { Blown coverages plural dropped passes two for Td's plural } but of course some programs that were once good on their schedule had historically poor seasons doomed them as it does happen to various teams , would they have beat Delaware that year ? I would have bet that they did
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Old 04-08-18, 07:24 PM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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Coffman would have gone 9-1 at worst vs Hayes schedule , Hayes goes 6-4 vs Coffman's at best circa 2008 that is only my opinion but of course I am sure everyone knows more than I do as usual
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Old 04-08-18, 09:01 PM
FB4EVer FB4EVer is offline
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I really don't know what their staff looks like, but I am sure that Coach Golden left the program better than he when he received it, at least in terms of fundamentals. To draw a coordinator from another high school with a teaching position, it must be a young coordinator. Otherwise, you are looking at a head coach teaching in another district. Westerville has had success with retired teachers like Magistro and Wetzel. Capital, Otterbein, ODU, and OWU might have a retired teacher on their staff that would fit the need.
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Old 04-08-18, 09:07 PM
WJ-OSU-STEELERS WJ-OSU-STEELERS is offline
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Harrycrane - Well, I'll give it a try. Sorry but I don't think 17% of the boys population affects Dublin Coffman's football results in a big negative way. Yes, those 17% of boys are more unlikely to play football. However, the Asian population only helps a already strong school academic presence and helps provides a already strong culture and living environment that the city of Dublin has to offer. I would say this helps the football program in two ways:
1) brings in quality people to the school district who take a vested interest in their children's endeavors. They are more likely to take kids to & from practice, send them to camps that can be expensive $$$, send their kids to training facilities that help with strength & speed, ect.
2) As a public school, having a lot to offer fends off losing kids to private schools. Outside of the religious factor (which is extremely important to some), academically what does a Watterson or DeSales offer that Dublin Coffman can not offer a child?

There is no way to put a number or percentage of students #1 or #2 may help bring in or keep at Dublin. Heck, maybe neither #1 or #2 apply, it's just my 2 cents. I went to school with a few kids who quit football because they or their family needed the $$$. I doubt if Dublin run's into that problem very often.

Now for the #'s. Dublin had 747 boys and 3 were added for competitve balance in OHSAA last count, thus 750 boys. If you take 17% off that, it's 127 boys which would leave Dublin Coffman with 623 boys (750-127). The Div I cut off was 617 or more for the top 72 schools in Ohio. Div II was 390 to 616 (107 schools). Yes, Dublin is at a disadvantage to the 10 or so big Catholic schools in Ohio (St X, Elder, St. Ignatius, Moller, St Joe's, etc) but they would be at the same disadvantage with another 25 or so players who may come out of the 127 male students. Ok, say Dublin Coffman were to drop to Div II, they still would have to get thru Cincinnati LaSalle, Cleveland Glenville, Loveland, Toledo Central Catholic, Trotwood-Madison, Cincinnati Anderson...it's not any 'easier' in Div II.

As for 2008 I didn't see either team play but I think it's safe to say Dublin Coffman would not have fared much better vs Pickerington Central. I just go to the one common opponent, Olentangy Liberty with Coffman winning 10-7 and Delaware losing 28-22 in OT. Plus, Dublin's wins vs Lima Sr (2-8), Westerville Central (0-10), Central Crossing (1-9), Westland (1-9), Thomas Worthington (2-8). Dublin's other win was vs Hilliard Darby (6-4), a school only 10 years old with only 1 playoff appearance to their name and 3 of their wins vs the teams mention above. Coffman's playoff was week 10 vs UA in their 7-6 loss. They knew what was on the line well before kickoff that Friday night. Sometimes you just get beat. Again, 2008 was far more important to Delaware & their team/community than a potential playoff appearance & possible/probably 1st round playoff loss for Dublin. Hey, I loved watching #16 seed UMBC beat #1 Virginia. I'm just giving Delaware their deserved credit for 2008.

Delaware, look into getting the London coach. It would be a good hire.
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Old 04-08-18, 11:58 PM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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Originally Posted by FB4EVer View Post
I really don't know what their staff looks like, but I am sure that Coach Golden left the program better than he when he received it, at least in terms of fundamentals. To draw a coordinator from another high school with a teaching position, it must be a young coordinator. Otherwise, you are looking at a head coach teaching in another district. Westerville has had success with retired teachers like Magistro and Wetzel. Capital, Otterbein, ODU, and OWU might have a retired teacher on their staff that would fit the need.
Morgan Cotter, formerly of Marysville, I know to be on the current OW staff.
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Old 04-09-18, 12:00 AM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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#25 - Great post, WJ-.
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Old 04-09-18, 03:52 AM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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Never said it was a detriment at all overall i know everything you typed in spades I live here you don't have to tel me what the community is and what it isn't , I only said the demographic isn't perfect for football and that most other schools don t have that percentage off the top that are very unlikely to play THAT'S ALL ,


2008 means nada , 'I'll stay with my point that Coffman beats Delaware and wins two more games than Delaware if they played their schedule and Delaware doesn't make the play-offs in the OCC Central it means nothing really , I agree Coffman wasn't a deep run play-off team but played pretty even with Davidson and UA in games that were really competitive and close , Kilbourne game was a disaster , that cost them the play-offs no question, Kilbourne did make the play-offs that year.

Pick Central I agree beats Coffman , and would have had a huge revenge motive from the year before when Coffman hammered them and they had a good number back from that team, I don't recall besides the score whether Delaware was real competitive with PC Coffman may be gives PC more of a problem but wasn't better that year, and I at this point it obviously doesn't matter, but I will say this talking this much and posting on a Delaware football thread is not something that some of us would have thought we would do . You know more about that community than I do good luck to them .

But no need at all to give me the rundown on advantages a school team may have in a community like Dublin, you were talking to me as if I haven't lived it and I am an outsider who roots for them , I get all that and live that , just trying to save you some time in the future
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Old 04-09-18, 04:06 AM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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By the way Dublin doesn't have the market cornered on strong community and parental support and or monetary advantages , and it isn't the only community that offers things that would preclude some from thinking about a private school no doubt I know this.

I get that the normal reflex when I type a fact like that is 'YEAH BUT !! you have a strong community involved parents a little more dough blah blah, I GET IT , I LIVE IT the yeah but's as if Dublin is the only community that has these things so stop whining about the demo. I wasn't , I made an observation a rather obvious one that is unique , it isn't insignificant to a football demo , still have solid numbers and other advantages , I know all of this and I also know if a school had a 50 white 50 black demo with athletes everywhere but was in a poorer district with less resources and poor community involvement and a lack of parental support that schools athletic teams may not reach their potential .

But I see the demo's of the public teams that are good year in and year out in the recent past in the top couple divisions and it isn't all about money certainly.
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Old 04-09-18, 07:49 AM
FOOTBALLGUYDT FOOTBALLGUYDT is offline
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Another thing at a Delaware is the lack of conference championships. I think they won one in 69, 96, and then the 2008. Of those I think were all co-champions except 96. I agree a smaller school coach or a coordinator would be ideal. I mean go after a coordinator from any of the Olentangy schools or Hilliard Schools. Those are close by heck I'd go after one of the coordinators at Liberty, Orange, or Tangy. Heck one of Tangy's old DC's is at Bradley now and their defense was good. Plus when he was at Tangy they had a really good defense. I think its Mike Picetti he's been coaching in the area for a while or the DC from Liberty but I think he just went to Berlin. There's some good coaches out there that want to be a HC need the right fit. From what I've heard from a few people is a lot of the better athletes that played football are Lacrosse only kids now. Don't know how much that effects the football program. I'm sure Golden left the program better than what it was. Schroeder was at Hayes and found success at Orange, LoParo was there at one point and might have been his team that went to the playoffs, and I know Mike Marshall won the 96 championship and went on to do well at BV.

Last edited by FOOTBALLGUYDT; 04-09-18 at 07:49 AM. Reason: spelling
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