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  #511  
Old 04-04-18, 10:36 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcgobucks View Post
Yep, I know he never is obligated to....but is there a rule that says when/if he can or can't if he wants to
No rule whatsoever.

An umpire that asks for help on calls that are his/hers on more than a rare occasion does not belong out there.
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  #512  
Old 04-04-18, 11:47 AM
Bugsy8875 Bugsy8875 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
No rule whatsoever.

An umpire that asks for help on calls that are his/hers on more than a rare occasion does not belong out there.
Very true.... the only time other than a check swing that I have asked for help is a possible pull of a foot by the First Baseman.

Preventative umpiring can help greatly in this area too. Pregame meeting and letting coaches talk and be respectful in your reply as you explain its a judgment call and no need to get help on a call.
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  #513  
Old 04-04-18, 03:49 PM
tcgobucks tcgobucks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugsy8875 View Post
Very true.... the only time other than a check swing that I have asked for help is a possible pull of a foot by the First Baseman.

Preventative umpiring can help greatly in this area too. Pregame meeting and letting coaches talk and be respectful in your reply as you explain its a judgment call and no need to get help on a call.
Funny you should mention first base because that's exactly the scenario I was thinking of. I've seen quite a few times where the throw pulls a 1B awkwardly to one side of the bag or the other and the umpire can't move quickly enough to get a good angle. I've seen plenty of coaches question the call based mainly on the fact that it would have been almost impossible for the 1B ump to have seen it due to the 1B moving, falling, stretching, etc where the HP ump would likely have had a better view. To me, I'd just like to see the 1B ump ask.....even if there's no way in the world that the HP ump is going to change the call.....though I'd hope that they would want to get it right lol. Just seems like at least discussing it with the HP ump would go a long way with the coaches, players and fans in making them assume that it was getting the call right that was the priority....not the fact that you can say "it was a judgement call, I don't need help".
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  #514  
Old 04-04-18, 04:14 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcgobucks View Post
Funny you should mention first base because that's exactly the scenario I was thinking of. I've seen quite a few times where the throw pulls a 1B awkwardly to one side of the bag or the other and the umpire can't move quickly enough to get a good angle. I've seen plenty of coaches question the call based mainly on the fact that it would have been almost impossible for the 1B ump to have seen it due to the 1B moving, falling, stretching, etc where the HP ump would likely have had a better view. To me, I'd just like to see the 1B ump ask.....even if there's no way in the world that the HP ump is going to change the call.....though I'd hope that they would want to get it right lol. Just seems like at least discussing it with the HP ump would go a long way with the coaches, players and fans in making them assume that it was getting the call right that was the priority....not the fact that you can say "it was a judgement call, I don't need help".
Let's not kid ourselves here, the coaches don't go out because they want us to get the call right. They are out there because they want the call to go in their favor.

Now that said, if an umpire is not 100% sure of his call, he/she should seek help from a partner....... That event should rarely happen.

Once you open that door, (seeking assistance because a coach wants you to seek assistance) that door can never be closed.
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  #515  
Old 04-05-18, 10:49 AM
Bugsy8875 Bugsy8875 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Let's not kid ourselves here, the coaches don't go out because they want us to get the call right. They are out there because they want the call to go in their favor.

Now that said, if an umpire is not 100% sure of his call, he/she should seek help from a partner....... That event should rarely happen.

Once you open that door, (seeking assistance because a coach wants you to seek assistance) that door can never be closed.
A thought I had as I follow multiple sports, I think baseball might be the only sport (Levels that don't have replay) where coaches want us to get help on calls that involve judgment.

I believe the Charge/Blocking Foul is one of the toughest calls in sports, yet when it's made, a coach doesn't ask the official to get help. Might not be happy with it, but he is not calling time and asking for him to ask his partner.
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  #516  
Old 04-05-18, 11:19 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugsy8875 View Post
A thought I had as I follow multiple sports, I think baseball might be the only sport (Levels that don't have replay) where coaches want us to get help on calls that involve judgment.

I believe the Charge/Blocking Foul is one of the toughest calls in sports, yet when it's made, a coach doesn't ask the official to get help. Might not be happy with it, but he is not calling time and asking for him to ask his partner.
Baseball is the only sport where the Head Coach is permitted to enter the playing area to discuss/dispute a call with an official.
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  #517  
Old 04-05-18, 11:44 AM
Bugsy8875 Bugsy8875 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Baseball is the only sport where the Head Coach is permitted to enter the playing area to discuss/dispute a call with an official.
True, but they better call timeout to do so. In the others, they can call a TO and call an official over to talk, but are still not going to ask an official to get help on their judgment calls like they would in baseball.
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  #518  
Old 04-05-18, 01:17 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bugsy8875 View Post
True, but they better call timeout to do so. In the others, they can call a TO......
Coaches request time-out. Officials grant or deny said request....

( we have to get you thinking like an umpire all the time )
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  #519  
Old 04-05-18, 03:16 PM
Bugsy8875 Bugsy8875 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Coaches request time-out. Officials grant or deny said request....

( we have to get you thinking like an umpire all the time )


I have been a football coach for many years, so my mind will venture that way at times.
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  #520  
Old 04-05-18, 03:43 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugsy8875 View Post
A thought I had as I follow multiple sports, I think baseball might be the only sport (Levels that don't have replay) where coaches want us to get help on calls that involve judgment.

I believe the Charge/Blocking Foul is one of the toughest calls in sports, yet when it's made, a coach doesn't ask the official to get help. Might not be happy with it, but he is not calling time and asking for him to ask his partner.
Very true. Part of it likely becAuse for the most part the umps are looking at the play where in other sports they often times have a certain area, spot, positona they are focusing on.
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  #521  
Old 04-06-18, 11:51 AM
Buck_98 Buck_98 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcgobucks View Post
Funny you should mention first base because that's exactly the scenario I was thinking of. I've seen quite a few times where the throw pulls a 1B awkwardly to one side of the bag or the other and the umpire can't move quickly enough to get a good angle. I've seen plenty of coaches question the call based mainly on the fact that it would have been almost impossible for the 1B ump to have seen it due to the 1B moving, falling, stretching, etc where the HP ump would likely have had a better view. To me, I'd just like to see the 1B ump ask.....even if there's no way in the world that the HP ump is going to change the call.....though I'd hope that they would want to get it right lol. Just seems like at least discussing it with the HP ump would go a long way with the coaches, players and fans in making them assume that it was getting the call right that was the priority....not the fact that you can say "it was a judgement call, I don't need help".
LOL! I have coached for years and not once have I ever come out to talk with an ump because it would go along way with me and my fans showing he wanted to get the call right. I want that call in my favor. However, I rarely argue a call. I go out and politely ask what the ump saw. Ninety percent of the time I walk back into the dugout knowing it will not be changed.
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  #522  
Old 04-07-18, 08:43 AM
Bugsy8875 Bugsy8875 is offline
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Did anyone see the Indians game yesterday? The KC pitcher was getting ready to throw and Encarnacion put hand up to call time, proceeded to step out of the box and the pitcher stopped... Looks like the signal was no pitch... what I was surprised by was the TV guys wanting a balk called... Tito came out probably just for clarification and din't seem upset about it.
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  #523  
Old 04-07-18, 10:42 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugsy8875 View Post
what I was surprised by was the TV guys wanting a balk called....
Never be surprised what comes out the mouth of a TV Sports Commentator...

They are just as ignorant of the rules as most fans.
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  #524  
Old 04-08-18, 11:15 AM
Bugsy8875 Bugsy8875 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Never be surprised what comes out the mouth of a TV Sports Commentator...

They are just as ignorant of the rules as most fans.

I know, but Rick Manning played a lot of baseball and is usually a very good analyst. Just surprised he didn't even know.
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  #525  
Old 04-10-18, 05:22 AM
CedarBuck92 CedarBuck92 is offline
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What are the rules on body parts being in the strike zone? I attended a game last year where a batter had most of his arms and at least a portion of his knees over the plate. His elbows were approximately halfway across the plate and had he swung the majority of his bat would have been in the opposite batters box. Needless to say he was HBP every time he was up. Just curious if there is any rules on this.

Second question. Umpire calls game for darkness with 1 out in top of 6th inning with Visiting team down 1 with runner on 3rd. Does the score revert to the score at the end of 5 or stay current score?
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  #526  
Old 04-10-18, 08:38 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CedarBuck92 View Post
What are the rules on body parts being in the strike zone? I attended a game last year where a batter had most of his arms and at least a portion of his knees over the plate. His elbows were approximately halfway across the plate and had he swung the majority of his bat would have been in the opposite batters box. Needless to say he was HBP every time he was up. Just curious if there is any rules on this.
If a pitch hits a batter while the ball is in the strike zone.....

- the ball becomes dead immediately
- the pitch is a strike
- any runners return to the base they occupied at the time of the pitch

The same applies if the batter swings at a pitch and the pitch hits him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CedarBuck92 View Post
Second question. Umpire calls game for darkness with 1 out in top of 6th inning with Visiting team down 1 with runner on 3rd. Does the score revert to the score at the end of 5 or stay current score?
Regular Season Contest in Ohio
You have described a regulation game. Home team wins by a run.

Tournament Contest in Ohio
Play will resume at the point the game was interrupted.
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  #527  
Old 04-10-18, 02:09 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Originally Posted by Buck_98 View Post
LOL! I have coached for years and not once have I ever come out to talk with an ump because it would go along way with me and my fans showing he wanted to get the call right. I want that call in my favor. However, I rarely argue a call. I go out and politely ask what the ump saw. Ninety percent of the time I walk back into the dugout knowing it will not be changed.
Only 90 percent?
We always told our players they are to ndver question a call....that will be our job ss coaches if we feel it is warranted.

I did get 2 calls changed......both plays at first asking the field ump to gwt help on a play at first where the 1b pulled his foot.


Funny we talked about a balkwith no runners on base........last night reds game the Phillies picher was called for a no pitch when he tried to quick pitch a reds hitter...not a balk but a orovisoon in the quick pitch/balk with no one on base
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  #528  
Old 04-10-18, 09:18 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thavoice View Post

Funny we talked about a balkwith no runners on base........last night reds game the Phillies picher was called for a no pitch when he tried to quick pitch a reds hitter...not a balk but a orovisoon in the quick pitch/balk with no one on base
The plate umpire declared the ball dead. Therefore no infraction can happen.
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  #529  
Old 04-11-18, 09:13 AM
firewatch firewatch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugsy8875 View Post
Did anyone see the Indians game yesterday? The KC pitcher was getting ready to throw and Encarnacion put hand up to call time, proceeded to step out of the box and the pitcher stopped... Looks like the signal was no pitch... what I was surprised by was the TV guys wanting a balk called... Tito came out probably just for clarification and din't seem upset about it.
I watched this also. I think it should have been a balk. Yes Edwin called for time but was not granted time by the ump. The pitcher stopped his delivery after committing to home plate and time out was not granted.
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  #530  
Old 04-11-18, 11:43 AM
Bugsy8875 Bugsy8875 is offline
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Originally Posted by firewatch View Post
I watched this also. I think it should have been a balk. Yes Edwin called for time but was not granted time by the ump. The pitcher stopped his delivery after committing to home plate and time out was not granted.
But in the umpire's judgment, Edwins action had the pitcher stop. I think it worked out correctly.
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  #531  
Old 04-11-18, 11:49 AM
Bugsy8875 Bugsy8875 is offline
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Here is a situation from a recent game:

Runners on 1st and 2nd, two outs. Two strikes on the batter. Pitch is low and the batter check swings at it and takes off as the ball gets by the catcher. The umpire signals with his arms a safe motion and yells "No swing, no swing".. the players continue on in the excitement and the batter was out easily if it was called a strike three.... the runners advance because the ball is still live.

The situation and mechanics is my question. The coach for the team on defense comes out and wants the check swing to be appealed to the base umpire. The plate umpire denies it and mentions that he is not asking for an appeal because of all the chaos that happened. afterwards.

Thoughts?
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  #532  
Old 04-11-18, 04:34 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Situation:

Starting pitcher has a DH batting for him. The starting pitcher is replaced on the mound by a reliever. When the DH comes up to bat an inning later, the coach wants to bat the starting pitcher and replace the DH. The reliever would continue pitching and have the new DH batting for him throughout the rest of the game.

Is this allowed?
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  #533  
Old 04-11-18, 06:39 PM
simkon simkon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
Situation:

Starting pitcher has a DH batting for him. The starting pitcher is replaced on the mound by a reliever. When the DH comes up to bat an inning later, the coach wants to bat the starting pitcher and replace the DH. The reliever would continue pitching and have the new DH batting for him throughout the rest of the game.

Is this allowed?
I don't know about high school rules but in MLB, once the new pitcher enters the game, the old pitcher is out of the game unless he moves to another position in the field. The Designated Hitter can only be pinch hit for or pinch ran for by someone off the bench without the team forfeiting use of their DH at which point the pitcher would have to hit. So in your scenario the relief pitcher still in the game could bat in place of the DH and the original DH would have to either immediately go to another position or exit the game.

According to MLB Rule 5.11 The designated hitter may be replaced as DH only by a player who has not entered the game. If the DH is moved to another position, his team forfeits the role of the DH, and the pitcher would bat in his spot. You cannot use a double switch with the DH, but you can use it if the pitcher is hitting for himself.

In college ball the pitcher can technically be both the P & DH and can continue hitting after being removed from the mound. If the pitcher/DH immediately moves to a new position after being removed the new pitcher becomes both the P & DH.

I think according to NFHS rules, a DH may bat in place of the weakest hitter, not necessarily the pitcher. I wonder if it depends on if the DH is hitting for a pitcher or someone else on the diamond.
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  #534  
Old 04-12-18, 11:20 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugsy8875 View Post
Here is a situation from a recent game:

Runners on 1st and 2nd, two outs. Two strikes on the batter. Pitch is low and the batter check swings at it and takes off as the ball gets by the catcher. The umpire signals with his arms a safe motion and yells "No swing, no swing".. the players continue on in the excitement and the batter was out easily if it was called a strike three.... the runners advance because the ball is still live.

The situation and mechanics is my question. The coach for the team on defense comes out and wants the check swing to be appealed to the base umpire. The plate umpire denies it and mentions that he is not asking for an appeal because of all the chaos that happened. afterwards.

Thoughts?
While an umpire is never required to ask for help, a good umpire will always ask for help When you have a situation where the batter is eligible to advance to first on an uncaught third strike after a batter attempts to check his swing.

Those that don’t are guys that just don’t understand......

Last edited by AllSports12; 04-12-18 at 12:55 PM.
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  #535  
Old 04-12-18, 12:18 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Originally Posted by simkon View Post
I don't know about high school rules but in MLB, once the new pitcher enters the game, the old pitcher is out of the game unless he moves to another position in the field. The Designated Hitter can only be pinch hit for or pinch ran for by someone off the bench without the team forfeiting use of their DH at which point the pitcher would have to hit. So in your scenario the relief pitcher still in the game could bat in place of the DH and the original DH would have to either immediately go to another position or exit the game.

According to MLB Rule 5.11 The designated hitter may be replaced as DH only by a player who has not entered the game. If the DH is moved to another position, his team forfeits the role of the DH, and the pitcher would bat in his spot. You cannot use a double switch with the DH, but you can use it if the pitcher is hitting for himself.

In college ball the pitcher can technically be both the P & DH and can continue hitting after being removed from the mound. If the pitcher/DH immediately moves to a new position after being removed the new pitcher becomes both the P & DH.

I think according to NFHS rules, a DH may bat in place of the weakest hitter, not necessarily the pitcher. I wonder if it depends on if the DH is hitting for a pitcher or someone else on the diamond.
Yes in hs the dh can hit for any position.
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  #536  
Old 04-12-18, 08:25 PM
bucksman bucksman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
Situation:

Starting pitcher has a DH batting for him. The starting pitcher is replaced on the mound by a reliever. When the DH comes up to bat an inning later, the coach wants to bat the starting pitcher and replace the DH. The reliever would continue pitching and have the new DH batting for him throughout the rest of the game.

Is this allowed?
Per 3-2-4(a) in the NFHS rules book,
"The role of the DH is terminated for the remainder of the game when the defensive player, or any previous defensive player for whom the DH batted, subsequently bats, pinch-hits or pinch-runs for the DH."

The starting pitcher is allowed to come back in and bat; however, there is no longer a DH (said DH can re-enter the game as a position player in batting order spot) and the relief pitcher is done for the game. The offense is now in a "straight nine".
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  #537  
Old 04-13-18, 08:13 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksman View Post
Per 3-2-4(a) in the NFHS rules book,
"The role of the DH is terminated for the remainder of the game when the defensive player, or any previous defensive player for whom the DH batted, subsequently bats, pinch-hits or pinch-runs for the DH."

The starting pitcher is allowed to come back in and bat; however, there is no longer a DH (said DH can re-enter the game as a position player in batting order spot) and the relief pitcher is done for the game. The offense is now in a "straight nine".
Exactly......

Case Book Play 3.1.4 Situation C further backs the above ruling....

3.1.4 SITUATION C:

F4, for whom the DH is batting, pinch hits or pinch runs for the DH.

RULING: The DH position is eliminated for the remainder of the game. However, the starting DH could re-enter as a player but not in the role of DH. If he does re-enter, he must re-enter in the same position in the batting order, replacing F4.
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  #538  
Old 04-13-18, 08:46 PM
Bugsy8875 Bugsy8875 is offline
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Does NFhS allow coaches to bat 10 if they are independent games? Like use an AH like Summer teams do.
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  #539  
Old 04-13-18, 09:46 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bugsy8875 View Post
Does NFhS allow coaches to bat 10 if they are independent games? Like use an AH like Summer teams do.
No
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  #540  
Old 04-14-18, 07:15 AM
Bugsy8875 Bugsy8875 is offline
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Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
No
I didn't think so either and didn't allow it. Coach was pretty sure it was allowed. Just never had a lineup card handed to me like that for a HS game. It was warm yesterday and I felt like I was doing a Summer League game for a second.
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