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  #1  
Old 01-09-19, 12:58 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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NCAA Rankings 1/9/19

There hasn't been a bdhof ranking in three weeks as bdhof has been low energy. There has been some low energy and inconsistency as well from the rankers. Everybody got on board this week except AWN. However they did do a ranking on 1/4 so I included that. If they do an update this week I'll tweak things to include the update.

These rankings compile the average rankings of six venues - Amateur Wrestling News (AWN), Flowrestling (Flo), Intermat (IM), The Open Mat (TOM), Trackwrestling (TW), and Wrestler Insider Magazine (WIN). When one or more of these venues do not submit a ranking, then the compilation will be of those venues that did. This week all six submitted ranking. I focus on the top four teams and this year it looks pretty clear that the normal standard bearers are the top four, PSU, tOSU, IOWA and OKST. I give each team an average ranking for their lineup awarding advancement and placement points. The plus/minus is the difference between this week and last week.

1 PSU 121.0 (plus 1.5)
2 tOSU 83.0 (plus 4.5)
3 IOWA 71.0 (minus 4.5)
4 OKST 68.5 (plus 7)

I thought that this week would be looking for a new top 4 to replace OKST. Instead they advanced 7 points, mostly due to plugging Joe Smith into the lineup after a long absence. tOSU also had a nice advance with Pletcher getting an upgrade along with Hayes. IOWA was nipping at the heels of tOSU before Christmas, but now has retreated, due mostly to Spencer Lee taking an unexpected loss along with 197 Warner. Marinelli made up some ground for IOWA with a win over #2 Wick, WISC.

Last edited by bdhof; 01-09-19 at 01:22 PM.
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  #2  
Old 01-09-19, 01:06 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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Notes:
PSU crushed the field @ the Scuffle, only 285 Cassar taking a slightly unexpected loss.
IOWA had a so-so performance at the Midlands, with the big news being the aforementioned Lee loss, and also the two-match and MFF-out performance by Stoll, who continues to show that he is not ready to compete at a high level.
OKST did fairly well at both the Reno and the Scuffle, and got a boost to the lineup with the return of Joe Smith.
tOSU had a near perfect match against NCST, winning 7 of 10 bouts.

Last edited by bdhof; 01-09-19 at 01:35 PM.
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  #3  
Old 01-09-19, 01:11 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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tOSU has 6 wrestlers ranked in the top 8. Here's the list of Ohio wrestlers ranked Top 8 by IM, including affiliates.
125
none
133
6 Luke Pletcher Ohio Stat
8 Tariq Wilson North Carolina State
141
2 Joey McKenna Ohio State
7 Dom Demas Oklahoma
149
1 Matthew Kolodzik Princeton

3 Micah Jordan Ohio State
157
7 Ke-Shawn Hayes Ohio State
165
2 Alex Marinelli Iowa
174
none
184
1 Myles Martin Ohio State

197
2 Kollin Moore Ohio State
5 Rocco Caywood Army West Point
285
none

Consensus #1:
149 1 Matthew Kolodzik Princeton
184 1 Myles Martin Ohio State

Other tOSU ranked wrestlers:
174 Te'Shan Campbell #12, 285 Singletary #18
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  #4  
Old 01-09-19, 01:17 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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Coming up this week
PSU - NW and WISC
tOSU - IND and MSU
IOWA - MINN*
OKST - PRINC & RUT**

*Will Stoll be AWOL or go against Steveson?
**All eyes on Suriano vs Fix
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  #5  
Old 01-09-19, 08:09 PM
Yankeefan33 Yankeefan33 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdhof View Post
Coming up this week
PSU - NW and WISC
tOSU - IND and MSU
IOWA - MINN*
OKST - PRINC & RUT**

*Will Stoll be AWOL or go against Steveson?
**All eyes on Suriano vs Fix
Okie St-Princeton also means Gfeller-Kolodzik.
PSu-NW is Nolf-Deakin; it's a very lowkey 1 vs 3 matchup
Iowa-Minny has DeSanto-Lizak and McKee-Murin, both of which are interesting to me

I'm so excited for Suriano-Fix. I think it's an extremely tight matchup with two guys who are excellent defensively. Their famous match at Who's #1 went over 30 minutes, with Suriano eventually winning with a takedown. They also met in 2014 at Cadet Nationals, with Fix winning 1-1 (freestyle, last point scored). So two matches with close to 40 minutes- one total takedown. Those matches were both several years ago, so both wrestlers have changed, but I do think they are both really close and will be an interesting match in terms of March's outlook.
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  #6  
Old 01-10-19, 08:42 AM
Pile Driver Pile Driver is offline
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I think the OSU gain, unfortunately, was due to an injury and not mat performance. Wilson likely would have beat Pletcher had he not gotten injured, so the raise in ranking is probably not worthy.

When it comes down to it this year nobody will be within 40 pts of PSU at NCAA's. I think Iowa has a better opportunity to get 2nd than OSU because they will likely qualify 9 or 10 for NCAA's and OSU has at least 2 or 3 glaring gaps in the lineup. OSU would need McKenna or Micah to pull an upset and win their weight to pull a 2nd.
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  #7  
Old 01-10-19, 08:58 AM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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In some non Top Four news:

Ohio guys 141 Demas, OK, moves up to #7 and 197 Caywood, West Point, moves up to #5.

Seth Gross remains #1 in 4 of 6 venues, in spite of the fact that he hasn't wrestled in two months while nursing an injury. BTW he lost his coach as well this year. And BTW 133 got considerably tougher this year as Suriano and Fix moved up a weight, along with Lizak who's not as good as those two but has gone 2nd and 4th at NCAAs. Gross is obviously very talented but IMO would need to be at or near 100% to fend off the challengers. And maybe even that won't be enough.
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  #8  
Old 01-10-19, 09:07 AM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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And, speaking of guys on the shelf, Stoll remains #1 in 3 of 6 venues in spite of registering just three matches this year. He makes guest appearances when there's little opposition in his path, beating UR Gremmel, ISU, 5-1, UR Gunning, NC, 3-1 and UR Shedenhelm, UNI, by fall. To answer the question posed above about the Iowa vs MINN match, the betting odds are 100-1 against him taking the mat vs Steveson this weekend.
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  #9  
Old 01-10-19, 09:27 AM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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Originally Posted by Pile Driver View Post
I think the OSU gain, unfortunately, was due to an injury and not mat performance. Wilson likely would have beat Pletcher had he not gotten injured, so the raise in ranking is probably not worthy.

When it comes down to it this year nobody will be within 40 pts of PSU at NCAA's. I think Iowa has a better opportunity to get 2nd than OSU because they will likely qualify 9 or 10 for NCAA's and OSU has at least 2 or 3 glaring gaps in the lineup. OSU would need McKenna or Micah to pull an upset and win their weight to pull a 2nd.
Having watched that match, I felt pretty good about a Pletcher win. He seemed to be getting to the legs easily, altho having trouble finishing. He's ranked 4, 5, 6, 6, 6, 7. I wouldn't say he unworthy of those rankings. The guy's pretty tough, as he showed last year. 133 is tougher this year with the addition of Suriano, Fix and Lizak, but I think he still finds the podium in that 4-7 mix.

You're right about PSU's runaway this year. However, IOWA has a quantity vs quality problem. They have 9 guys currently ranked (except 174), but 4 are off the podium (10, 15, 12 and 14) and Stoll may not finish out the season. Without a healthy Stoll they finish outside of the top four, a good 20 points or so behind tOSU. I think Lee will reclaim the 125 crown, but not a lot of other upside in their rankings. IM has tOSU at 6, 2 and 3 at 133, 141 and 149. I see upside potential in all three of those weights, with Pletcher capable of a 4 and McKenna and Micah caple of a crown. Meanwhile, 184 at #1 and 197 at #2 look pretty solid right now. 157 at #7 is vulnerable, but Hayes has wrestled surprisingly well at a weight that he doesn't belong in and could reach the podium.
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  #10  
Old 01-10-19, 09:43 AM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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NCAA Rankings 1/9/19

And for those (including me) who want to dismiss the talents of Hayes, he has wins this year over #11 Pagdilao, AZST, #15 Van Brill, RUT, by MD and #8 Rahmani, Pitt. His losses this year are to #14 Barone, ILL, (2-1) #2 Berger, NEB, (6-3) and #4 Hilday, NCST (7-2). He has wrestled three top 8 guys and is 1 and 2. He has wrestled a very solid schedule and competed well against everyone. I know people wanted to say how bad the Hiday match was, but I watched it and Hilday did little more than tie up and push Hayes around. He wasn't taking shots. Hayes probably shot more than Hilday did that match. He was outmuscled by a guy who was 2nd at NCAAs last year.

Last edited by bdhof; 01-10-19 at 12:15 PM.
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  #11  
Old 01-10-19, 10:53 AM
kessen157 kessen157 is offline
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[QUOTE=Pile Driver;7228611]I think the OSU gain, unfortunately, was due to an injury and not mat performance. Wilson likely would have beat Pletcher had he not gotten injured, so the raise in ranking is probably not worthy

How can you possibly say Wilson was likely to beat Pletcher it was 2-2 when the injury occurred?

Not to mention Pletcher was ranked ahead of Wilson since he lost to the kid from IU a week ago.
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  #12  
Old 01-10-19, 01:09 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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Originally Posted by bdhof View Post
And, speaking of guys on the shelf, Stoll remains #1 in 3 of 6 venues in spite of registering just three matches this year. He makes guest appearances when there's little opposition in his path, beating UR Gremmel, ISU, 5-1, UR Gunning, NC, 3-1 and UR Shedenhelm, UNI, by fall. To answer the question posed above about the Iowa vs MINN match, the betting odds are 100-1 against him taking the mat vs Steveson this weekend.
FLR (Flo Live Radio) said Stoll isn't listed in "probable lineup" for Iowa this weekend.
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  #13  
Old 01-10-19, 01:14 PM
GWF GWF is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdhof View Post
And for those (including me) who want to dismiss the talents of Hayes, he has wins this year over #11 Pagdilao, AZST, #15 Van Brill, RUT, by MD and #8 Rahmani, Pitt. His losses this year are to #14 Barone, ILL, (2-1) #2 Berger, NEB, (6-3) and #4 Hilday, NCST (7-2). He has wrestled three top 8 guys and is 1 and 2. He has wrestled a very solid schedule and competed well against everyone. I know people wanted to say how bad the Hiday match was, but I watched it and Hilday did little more than tie up and push Hayes around. He wasn't taking shots. Hayes probably shot more than Hilday did that match. He was outmuscled by a guy who was 2nd at NCAAs last year.
Agree. I wasn’t as concerned with the Hayes match as some others. I thought Hilday did very little but push him off the mat and get stalling points. He was the bigger stronger wrestler but did not have some offensive explosion. He wore Hayes down by pushing him all over the mat. If Hayes would have been able to circle in a little more and keep the stalling points off the board it’s a much closer match. 3-2 without the stalling points and the garbage takedown at the end.
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  #14  
Old 01-10-19, 01:25 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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Other tOSU news:
Heinselman was dressed and ready to go against NCST, but Ryan kept him on the bench. My guess is that if the team score was close (20-6 at the time) he would have gone. I guess Ryan would prefer to roll him out against UR IU and maybe or maybe not against #7 Foley, MSU. I'm not sure why b/c #13 Fauz, NCST isn't as good as the B10 guys he'll be facing (or only marginally better). I don't see him getting on the podium, but if he beats Foley that changes my opinion.
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  #15  
Old 01-10-19, 04:57 PM
Yankeefan33 Yankeefan33 is online now
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[QUOTE=kessen157;7228747]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pile Driver View Post
I think the OSU gain, unfortunately, was due to an injury and not mat performance. Wilson likely would have beat Pletcher had he not gotten injured, so the raise in ranking is probably not worthy

How can you possibly say Wilson was likely to beat Pletcher it was 2-2 when the injury occurred?

Not to mention Pletcher was ranked ahead of Wilson since he lost to the kid from IU a week ago.
Because Tariq beat him the last time they wrestled and Tariq had the only takedown in the match when it was stopped. If odds were given 1 second before the injury, Tariq would have been over 50%
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  #16  
Old 01-10-19, 05:09 PM
Mr.wrsln2 Mr.wrsln2 is offline
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Pletcher gonna have trouble with a few of the guys at 33.Tariq included.
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  #17  
Old 01-10-19, 07:42 PM
Wrestlingfan21 Wrestlingfan21 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdhof View Post
Other tOSU news:
Heinselman was dressed and ready to go against NCST, but Ryan kept him on the bench. My guess is that if the team score was close (20-6 at the time) he would have gone. I guess Ryan would prefer to roll him out against UR IU and maybe or maybe not against #7 Foley, MSU. I'm not sure why b/c #13 Fauz, NCST isn't as good as the B10 guys he'll be facing (or only marginally better). I don't see him getting on the podium, but if he beats Foley that changes my opinion.
Why would they pull his redshirt?.I guess I just don't quite understand the thinking on this, I mean, at this point in my mind he likely wins maybe 1 or 2 matches at NCAAs, at best.
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  #18  
Old 01-10-19, 07:51 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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NCAA Rankings 1/9/19

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrestlingfan21 View Post
Why would they pull his redshirt?.I guess I just don't quite understand the thinking on this, I mean, at this point in my mind he likely wins maybe 1 or 2 matches at NCAAs, at best.

I agree. But I this summer I thought they’d RS McKenna, Pletcher and Martin as well as Heinselman and go for it all in 2020. Shows how much I know. Next year PSU can be caught - not this year.


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  #19  
Old 01-10-19, 08:27 PM
ProV1 ProV1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Wrestlingfan21 View Post
Why would they pull his redshirt?.I guess I just don't quite understand the thinking on this, I mean, at this point in my mind he likely wins maybe 1 or 2 matches at NCAAs, at best.
The only reason that they would pull it now is because he is the best they have at the moment AND they do not think he is the best they will have a few years down the road.
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Old 01-10-19, 08:50 PM
Yankeefan33 Yankeefan33 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdhof View Post
I agree. But I this summer I thought they’d RS McKenna, Pletcher and Martin as well as Heinselman and go for it all in 2020. Shows how much I know. Next year PSU can be caught - not this year.


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I have no idea what Penn St plans to do next year, but they could really, really punt if they wanted to. Hall, Lee, RBY all have their redshirt available. Brooks, Beard, and Nevills can all redshirt (since they are on greyshirt this year). Hall, Berge, Brooks, Verkleeren, and Manville can all Olympic redshirt. If he wanted to Cenzo could probably qualify for an Olympic shirt this summer.

Then again, they could roll out Teasdale-RBY-Lee-Berge-Verkleeren-Joseph-Hall-Brooks-Beard-Nevills and have a tough team again. Not as good as this year's team, but a good team nonetheless.
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  #21  
Old 01-10-19, 08:59 PM
knightflyer150 knightflyer150 is offline
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The only reason that they would pull it now is because he is the best they have at the moment AND they do not think he is the best they will have a few years down the road.
That's what I think.
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  #22  
Old 01-11-19, 08:07 AM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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Originally Posted by Yankeefan33 View Post
I have no idea what Penn St plans to do next year, but they could really, really punt if they wanted to. Hall, Lee, RBY all have their redshirt available. Brooks, Beard, and Nevills can all redshirt (since they are on greyshirt this year). Hall, Berge, Brooks, Verkleeren, and Manville can all Olympic redshirt. If he wanted to Cenzo could probably qualify for an Olympic shirt this summer.

Then again, they could roll out Teasdale-RBY-Lee-Berge-Verkleeren-Joseph-Hall-Brooks-Beard-Nevills and have a tough team again. Not as good as this year's team, but a good team nonetheless.
Even next year w/o RS'ing everyone, they could win it all. It just wouldn't be a blow out like this year with tOSU, OKST and IOWA would all in the hunt.
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Old 01-11-19, 09:01 AM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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The only reason that they would pull it now is because he is the best they have at the moment AND they do not think he is the best they will have a few years down the road.
Unless they find a hot recruit, Jacob Decatur is the only one in the pipeline and he's wrestling 113 this year. And he's ranked #10 at 113. Heinselman is probably a better choice unless Jacob really improves (and grows), or Heinselman doesn't prove to be the recruit that they hoped he would be. Heinselman wrestled 120 last year, so he probably is a small 125 this year. IMO he needs a year to grow (lift weights) and adjust to NCAA. I wouldn't count him out to make the podium, but I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't (more likely scenario IMO).
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Old 01-11-19, 09:58 AM
ProV1 ProV1 is offline
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Unless they find a hot recruit, Jacob Decatur is the only one in the pipeline and he's wrestling 113 this year. And he's ranked #10 at 113. Heinselman is probably a better choice unless Jacob really improves (and grows), or Heinselman doesn't prove to be the recruit that they hoped he would be. Heinselman wrestled 120 last year, so he probably is a small 125 this year. IMO he needs a year to grow (lift weights) and adjust to NCAA. I wouldn't count him out to make the podium, but I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't (more likely scenario IMO).
I agree. I would bet that Ryan believes that he can recruit another 125 in the next couple years. After watching Decatur against the top 113’s this year, his college success at 125 is really questionable.
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Old 01-11-19, 10:49 AM
Cthelites Cthelites is offline
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So really the question is what will Heinselman be in 3 yrs?
Will he grow out of 25? If he has a fifth yr? Can Decatur grow into that spot 3 yrs from now. I really don’t know what Decatur has or hasn’t done on the national stage compared to his brother. Any results?
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Old 01-11-19, 12:06 PM
ProV1 ProV1 is offline
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So really the question is what will Heinselman be in 3 yrs?
Will he grow out of 25? If he has a fifth yr? Can Decatur grow into that spot 3 yrs from now. I really don’t know what Decatur has or hasn’t done on the national stage compared to his brother. Any results?
He took 6th at Ironman at 113 and looked tiny in the process. It seems he is likely gonna have to transform to be what OSU is looking for at 125.
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Old 01-11-19, 01:12 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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He took 6th at Ironman at 113 and looked tiny in the process. It seems he is likely gonna have to transform to be what OSU is looking for at 125.
I think either Heinselman or Decatur could grow into the weight, especially with a strong weight program like they have at tOSU. The question is which one if either will excel at the NCAA level. At this point Heinselman has more credentials:
• Three-time Fargo freestyle champion
• Fargo greco-roman champion
• Two-time Cadet World Team member
• Junior World Team member
• 2017 Junior U.S. Open champion

I just think this year he isn't big enough and needs a year in the weight room and some RS matches. Ryan knows what he is doing tho and will make the move that works best for the team.
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Old 01-11-19, 04:00 PM
Cthelites Cthelites is offline
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Originally Posted by bdhof View Post
I think either Heinselman or Decatur could grow into the weight, especially with a strong weight program like they have at tOSU. The question is which one if either will excel at the NCAA level. At this point Heinselman has more credentials:
• Three-time Fargo freestyle champion
• Fargo greco-roman champion
• Two-time Cadet World Team member
• Junior World Team member
• 2017 Junior U.S. Open champion

I just think this year he isn't big enough and needs a year in the weight room and some RS matches. Ryan knows what he is doing tho and will make the move that works best for the team.
Wow that’s impressive! I knew he had the goods but didn’t know he had that many groceries! Yes Tom knows. In Tom we trust!
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  #29  
Old 01-11-19, 06:35 PM
Yankeefan33 Yankeefan33 is online now
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Originally Posted by Cthelites View Post
Wow that’s impressive! I knew he had the goods but didn’t know he had that many groceries! Yes Tom knows. In Tom we trust!
As is tradition, I wanna reel people back in on Heinselman. He dropped in most people's rankings his senior year after some losses and ended up #37 on FloWrestling's big board, which is pretty good but not near elite. His three world team appearances resulted in a 1-3 record. He has three losses on the year; Joey Melendez (redshirting for UNC) and Liam Cronin (backup 125 for Indiana) are two of them. His best win is Alex Mackall maybe, who is 12-6 for Iowa State.

There's lots of things that should factor into whether a guy redshirts. Current roster construction, health, maturity, weight management, ability to compete on a national level, international aspirations, and more.

If none of those things apply, then a redshirt should be looked at a little harder. I think Heinselman isn't ready for the top level 125 and I don't think Ohio St will compete for a team championship. They have nobody in the pipeline that will beat him out, and weight doesn't seem to be a problem. I think he should redshirt.
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