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  #1  
Old 08-24-17, 10:03 PM
jakeburg jakeburg is offline
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2017 Preseason OATCCC Poll

First poll is posted on the Ohio Association of Track and Cross Country Coaches' website.
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  #2  
Old 08-25-17, 07:58 AM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
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Thanks for posting. Got to be hard to rank teams before they have run yet but you think Coaches would at least know what division a team is in before voting for them.

Both Defiance and Norwalk boys got D2 votes when now they are D1 and Toledo St. Ursiline is ranked 22 in D1 girls when they are now D2 where they received no votes. Those are just the ones I quickly spotted for NW I am sure there are more.

The association could help the coaches out by giving them a list of teams by division before they vote.
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  #3  
Old 08-25-17, 10:10 AM
jakeburg jakeburg is offline
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My understanding is that there's a master list but it's not alphabetized nor broken down into girls & boys. Poll research work is harder than it seems and consumes a huge amount of time.

For the record, I'm not a voter.
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  #4  
Old 08-25-17, 12:23 PM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeburg View Post
My understanding is that there's a master list but it's not alphabetized nor broken down into girls & boys. Poll research work is harder than it seems and consumes a huge amount of time.

For the record, I'm not a voter.
I understand it is not easy to be a voter particularly early in the season. If the list is not broken down between boys and girls it is not much help because there are so many schools that teams are in different divisions.
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  #5  
Old 08-25-17, 03:53 PM
jakeburg jakeburg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC Track Fan View Post
I understand it is not easy to be a voter particularly early in the season. If the list is not broken down between boys and girls it is not much help because there are so many schools that teams are in different divisions.
Right. That's what I was getting at but failed to say. It was late...
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  #6  
Old 08-25-17, 07:56 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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I assume that D1 coaches vote for D1, D2 for D2 and D3 for D3. It would take less than 5 minutes after the teams were ranked to go to the OHSAA site and remove the teams not in the Division. I bet Mr. Slippery could generate a list in under 45 minutes and post it here on Yappi or offer it to coaches as a PDF or spreadsheet.
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  #7  
Old 08-28-17, 09:27 PM
Seppo Kaitainen Seppo Kaitainen is offline
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Interestingly, there's no St. Usuline Academy in Toledo in any division. There's a St. Ursula, but they haven't been very good in XC in recent memory.
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  #8  
Old 08-28-17, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
I assume that D1 coaches vote for D1, D2 for D2 and D3 for D3. It would take less than 5 minutes after the teams were ranked to go to the OHSAA site and remove the teams not in the Division. I bet Mr. Slippery could generate a list in under 45 minutes and post it here on Yappi or offer it to coaches as a PDF or spreadsheet.
Mr. Slippery is too tired. He can't even bring himself to keep sifting through hundreds of old district/regional track and field results and articles he downloaded from online news archives to continue work on the "teams that have qualified in every event" project.

That said, Mr. Slippery has Excel files with OHSAA enrollment figures from the past 5 2-year cycles. Once you know the cut-offs, the sort function can do the rest.


As for how the poll stuff works, I've gone through it before, and I'll mention it again: My boss served as a pollster for 1 season 11 years ago. No milesplit at that time, so I would comb the meet results on baumspage and check for scuttlebutt on sites like JJ's Steubenville Big Red Football Lovefest. It was funny how little the DII and DIII fans in NEO would talk on that site while their teams continued to lay waste to the rest of the state back then. The site was useful for learning who was missing a runner and for getting details on courses and race conditions. I would then compile a list of teams that were worth considering for votes and what they did over the weekend (times, who they beat head-to-head, who beat them head-to-head, etc), but my boss would make any changes he liked and ultimately cast the ballot. He was coach for a boys DII team and was only voting on DII boys, so yes unless things have changed, DI coaches who are pollsters only vote DI, DII votes DII, etc. There are 12 pollsters per each division and per each gender (I believe they tried to get 3 from each quadrant of the state). You listed your top 15 in order from 1-15. 1st place received 15 pts. right on down to 15th place receiving 1 pt. 180 pts. indicates a unanimous #1 (15 pts. x 12 posters). A team receiving 12 pts. or more means, on average, that team made every pollster's top 15. Ballots had to be submitted by Monday evening to whomever was in charge of the poll (IIRC, it was Cloverleaf's Todd Clark back then). He would tabulate the points. The polls would usually be released online Wed. evening and would end up in print for Thursday's papers.

It was fun, and I got to learn much more about teams and courses from all over the state. It also was a lot of work that I really don't miss. My boss would vote based on how teams were running at the time of the poll as opposed to trying to predict how we thought teams might finish at the end of the season.
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  #9  
Old 08-30-17, 06:32 PM
gatornation gatornation is offline
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New poll is out but they are still working out the kinks, Hawken girls received 71 votes in D3 and they are in D2.
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  #10  
Old 08-30-17, 07:12 PM
Napcat2000 Napcat2000 is offline
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http://www.oatccc.com/cross-country.aspx
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  #11  
Old 08-30-17, 11:53 PM
CoachI CoachI is offline
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Boys D1 teams flying under the radar
St Edward
Chardon

Others?
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  #12  
Old 08-31-17, 07:00 AM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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D2 girls. CVCA beat Woodridge head to head, is any research being done. It doesn't get any easier than that when ranking teams. The stuff irritates me.
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  #13  
Old 08-31-17, 07:05 AM
xcrunner69 xcrunner69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachI View Post
Boys D1 teams flying under the radar
St Edward
Chardon

Others?
Not necessarily under the radar, but some teams that are underrated include Carroll, Massillon Jackson, and Mason.
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  #14  
Old 08-31-17, 07:31 AM
starcatcher8 starcatcher8 is offline
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All-Ohio in D-1

I am curious what people think it will take to make All-Ohio (top 25 at the state meet) this year. Last year it was 15:50.4. I am thinking that it might be closer to 15:45 this year (if the weather and other conditions are favorable).
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  #15  
Old 08-31-17, 07:40 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Hard to poll outside of regions until bigger meets are ran
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  #16  
Old 08-31-17, 08:41 AM
jakeburg jakeburg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcrunner69 View Post
Not necessarily under the radar, but some teams that are underrated include Carroll, Massillon Jackson, and Mason.
Jackson beat St. Iggy at Glenoak. They looked great. 15:56-16:47 1-5 spread. That's impressive.

St. Iggy was 16:10-16:52 1-5. Also impressive.

51 seconds v. 52 seconds.
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  #17  
Old 08-31-17, 10:14 AM
gatornation gatornation is offline
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Maybe the voters took into consideration that only 2 of the 3 Howard girls raced. The middle one is missing from the results. She was top 5 last year.
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  #18  
Old 08-31-17, 12:13 PM
effit effit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
Hard to poll outside of regions until bigger meets are ran
Tiffin will sort things out next week. For the D3 boys race, 13 of the 20 teams ranked were there last year.
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  #19  
Old 08-31-17, 01:02 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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My suggestion as a pollster is that if people are missing some info that would help sort it out then keep posting on here so we can put more thought into the polls and get them accurate.
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  #20  
Old 08-31-17, 05:43 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatornation View Post
Maybe the voters took into consideration that only 2 of the 3 Howard girls raced. The middle one is missing from the results. She was top 5 last year.
Even if she wins the race, they lose to CVCA. Does that get consideration? Head to head should matter.
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  #21  
Old 08-31-17, 05:54 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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the polls should reflect the current situation not maybes and what ifs.
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  #22  
Old 09-06-17, 08:40 PM
gatornation gatornation is offline
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Week 2 polls are out. I see Hawken was finally removed from the D3 poll. But, D2 pollsters have yet to take notice. They finished 3rd at the Mentor Invitational in a heavily loaded D1 meet.
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  #23  
Old 09-06-17, 08:55 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatornation View Post
Week 2 polls are out. I see Hawken was finally removed from the D3 poll. But, D2 pollsters have yet to take notice. They finished 3rd at the Mentor Invitational in a heavily loaded D1 meet.
Where do you put them 20th? They only beat Edgewood by one and I think Edgewood beats them in a better field as Hawken has a big 5 problem. Big.
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  #24  
Old 09-07-17, 05:18 AM
gatornation gatornation is offline
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Sure, 20th, 19th, 18th... They beat the 18th place team and I thought we were ranking them on their performance that week? The field had 49 girls under 21:00, pretty strong in my book.
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  #25  
Old 09-07-17, 08:16 AM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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That's my bad. I did not finish my post with what was in my head. I was putting them down at 20, because I was putting them in the 18th spot ahead of Edgewood, but then moving them down by adding Bay and Cloverleaf. I don't see Hawken having any trouble moving through the District to the Regional. I would think that's a big advantage training and mentality wise as the season progresses. I still think Edgewood beats them in a field of more closely matched teams if they do not improve #5 a lot. It looks to me that the NE will have 10 of the top 20 ranked D2 girls teams with 5 of them at LCCC.
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  #26  
Old 09-07-17, 11:39 AM
gatornation gatornation is offline
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Gotcha. Is Tusky Valley Tuscar. Valley who was in D3 last year?
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  #27  
Old 09-07-17, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatornation View Post
Gotcha. Is Tusky Valley Tuscar. Valley who was in D3 last year?
Yup. Same school. Not sure how they feel about being called "Tusky," but it makes life easier for the rest of us. I usually just refer to them as TV. Their girls were good in MS a few years back and have panned out nicely at the HS level; much like we often think it will but occasionally does not.

Talked to some kids from Tuscarawas Central Catholic when I was in HS who said they hated being referred to as "Tusky." Their league foes usually call them TCC.
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  #28  
Old 09-07-17, 01:10 PM
Percidae Percidae is offline
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Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
... It looks to me that the NE will have 10 of the top 20 ranked D2 girls teams with 5 of them at LCCC.
No need to guess. Week 2 poll is out:

http://www.oatccc.com/docs/cross-cou...eek-2-poll.pdf

Kind of scratching my head a little on how Lexington girls moved up to the top spot.
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  #29  
Old 09-07-17, 06:49 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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I was wrong, LCCC will have 6 top 20 teams when it's all said and done. At least 1 will not make it through to the Regional. I forgot Beaumont was at LCCC. CVCA, Woodridge, Padua Franciscan, Beaumont, Then Bay and Cloverleaf when the polls get better. I'm not going to count out Tallmadge either. Not sure how Hathaway Brown is either.
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  #30  
Old 09-07-17, 07:06 PM
gatornation gatornation is offline
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I am struggling to figure out why you are on the Bay and Cloverleaf band wagon? Except that they go to your LCCC District! Cloverleaf has 5 girls in the 21's and lost to Padua by 40 who lost to Edgewood by 80 at Berkshire. Bay has 4 girls in the 21's and 1 in the low 20's and would have lost to Padua had they been in the same division Saturday. Do you have insight? And 1 has to stay home because LCCC can only take 5 to Boardman.
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