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  #61  
Old 08-14-17, 01:30 PM
coach_k coach_k is offline
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madman...if a race is full and the top teams still remain, then they 'bump' the lowest seeded team into the other race. This is the way we did it in the SE back in 2001/2002 before we were forced to adopt a bracket seeding system, which then gave way to one race for all district teams.

It seemed to work out very well for us, but that's because we had a local coach who was a meet manager and understood how it works. Since then the people who make the decisions have changed and are set against teams choosing their race destinations. In addition the online seeding system caused a number of problems, so our DAB simplified the process on their end, but it was at the angst of most of the coaches in the district.
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  #62  
Old 08-14-17, 02:56 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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I thought that the districts that seeded went from worst to first and if a district race was filled up as the higher seeded teams (better teams) were picking, they displaced the lowest seeded team to another race. So, even if the worst teams all chose Malone, then if a higher seeded team then decided to take Malone, then the lowest seeded team at that site had to go to another site.
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  #63  
Old 08-14-17, 05:34 PM
madman madman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
I thought that the districts that seeded went from worst to first and if a district race was filled up as the higher seeded teams (better teams) were picking, they displaced the lowest seeded team to another race. So, even if the worst teams all chose Malone, then if a higher seeded team then decided to take Malone, then the lowest seeded team at that site had to go to another site.
That bumping process would be a pain in the butt unless all coaches were present and doing it live - I don't see that ever happening.

In the end, just like in Track and Field, the goal of the State Tournament isn't to get the best 16 teams or individuals to the Championship. It is to crown a single team and individual as the best on the final day of the tournament. As long as there are entry restrictions for each team and required representation from different geographic areas it can't be any more than that.

As long as there are people making choices based on their own personal values there will be bias. A person could argue that their bias is better than someone else's but that's too often the argument of an arrogant fool.

Personally, I think making decisions for this fall based on what happened last fall is just as likely to end up with districts as unbalanced as we have now. The concept of balanced districts is probably a myth to start with.

I'm ok with Districts being determined geographically, just like Regionals are.

If we ever get to a situation where multiple district meets are at the same location, then I do favor the coaches of those teams ranking them and choosing which race to be in based on that ranking. While I favor the method of coaches selecting which race in the order of their ranking I wouldn't fall on my sword over a different order.

In the end, whether we stick with our current system or use some type of seeding, the best team and the best individual are still most likely to advanced to the next round.
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  #64  
Old 08-14-17, 07:05 PM
Altor Altor is offline
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Here's the way I always thought was fair, but will never happen now since nobody has in-person seed meetings anymore:

1. Vote for and assign seeds to the top teams based on the number of teams qualifying from districts to regionals.
2. The remaining (non-seeded) teams draw for choice order.
3. Seed #1 may choose a race or pass.
4. Seed #2 may choose a race or pass.
5. etc. etc.
6. Last seeded team may choose a race or pass.
7. A non-seeded team based on the random draw must choose a race (they may not pass).

At any point between steps 3 and 7, if a team chooses a race, go back to step 3. If a team has already chosen a race, skip that step.

Alternatively, instead of determining the non-seeded order in step 2, you can draw one each time step 7 comes up. This way, nobody knows which of the non-seeded teams is next.
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  #65  
Old 08-14-17, 07:28 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madman View Post
That bumping process would be a pain in the butt unless all coaches were present and doing it live - I don't see that ever happening.

In the end, just like in Track and Field, the goal of the State Tournament isn't to get the best 16 teams or individuals to the Championship. It is to crown a single team and individual as the best on the final day of the tournament. As long as there are entry restrictions for each team and required representation from different geographic areas it can't be any more than that.

As long as there are people making choices based on their own personal values there will be bias. A person could argue that their bias is better than someone else's but that's too often the argument of an arrogant fool.

Personally, I think making decisions for this fall based on what happened last fall is just as likely to end up with districts as unbalanced as we have now. The concept of balanced districts is probably a myth to start with.

I'm ok with Districts being determined geographically, just like Regionals are.

If we ever get to a situation where multiple district meets are at the same location, then I do favor the coaches of those teams ranking them and choosing which race to be in based on that ranking. While I favor the method of coaches selecting which race in the order of their ranking I wouldn't fall on my sword over a different order.

In the end, whether we stick with our current system or use some type of seeding, the best team and the best individual are still most likely to advanced to the next round.
The entire gripe is that it's not being done geographically in the NE. There are Districts being stacked and others that are much easier and that is fine if it's just straight geographic alignment and it just naturally happens. However, since that is not the case, the NEDAB should be fair to it's own schools and come up with a fair solution.
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  #66  
Old 08-15-17, 04:38 AM
PatHelgerman PatHelgerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
I thought that the districts that seeded went from worst to first and if a district race was filled up as the higher seeded teams (better teams) were picking, they displaced the lowest seeded team to another race. So, even if the worst teams all chose Malone, then if a higher seeded team then decided to take Malone, then the lowest seeded team at that site had to go to another site.
That is how it works in the Central, and most coaches are there to pick. Coaches who aren't there are placed in the least full section when their turn comes up.
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  #67  
Old 08-15-17, 07:39 AM
gatornation gatornation is offline
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A super district in the NE would have 72 girls teams in D2 and and 66 teams in boys D2. That ain't happening.
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  #68  
Old 08-15-17, 10:25 AM
PatHelgerman PatHelgerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatornation View Post
A super district in the NE would have 72 girls teams in D2 and and 66 teams in boys D2. That ain't happening.
That would be challenging. D2 and D3 only have about 20 schools each in the central. D1 is approaching 60 though.
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