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  #31  
Old 10-06-16, 03:26 PM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
It's not a matter of which is more important: starters v relievers, I think everyone recognizes the value of a quality starter; the issue is Iglesias has shown, without a doubt two years in a row, he doesn't have the arm to pitch the number of innings a quality starter needs to give.
I hear you, but I am not convinced 'without a doubt' that he can't do it. He did it for years in Cuba. He had a quality stretch in 2015 with almost 70 innings in 11 starts. Not mind blowing great, but over 6 innings per start. I think his talent makes it worth giving it another try. If we had other equally talented guys waiting on a chance, I'd say put him in the pen for sure. But we don't, IMO.
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  #32  
Old 10-06-16, 04:03 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Backend bullpen guys have no value on teams with sub-par starting pitching. Getting holds and saves on a 70-win team is pointless. It is ALL about starting pitching. Five best guys need to be in the rotation. That means Iglesias. If he gets hurt, he gets hurt, but need to try to do what is smart.

If you have doubts, go here: http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/pitching/

This list of pitchers salaries illustrates what is valuable. Starting pitching. When you get down to the 40th highest salary you start to see names like Chapman, Kimbrel, Robertson - the closers.
I understand and respect that...but...IF YOU WANT TO BE GOOD, you need a great bullpen. Iglesias has not proven to me that he can be a long term, solid starting pitcher in major league baseball. He's 25, he's not a project anymore. It's put up time for him. He could be a back end bullpen guy for this team for the next 5 years. He could start and blow his arm out and be out of baseball in 2 years.
  #33  
Old 10-06-16, 08:12 PM
EagleGuy EagleGuy is offline
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I believe Colon is available. If he stays with the Mets, he may become a combination reliever/spot starter. Matt Harvey may be available.
  #34  
Old 10-07-16, 09:17 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Really good interview on Lance McCallister's show on WLW Wednesday night. The podcast is on WLW's site. Just a good capsule of the season and Price's views moving forward.
For those who are not big "closer" guys, I think Price eluded to something you'll like. As you recall, the Reds used Iglesias and Lorenzen for sometimes 2 inning stints the 2nd half. A little like the Indians used Miller and Allen last night. Point being you can do that, but you need multiple quality relief pitchers to do that. As we saw with the Reds the 2nd half, if you got to the 6th inning with a lead, you could go with Lorenzen for 2 and Iglesias for one, or visa versa. The times we had to use Olendorf, Diaz, Sampson, etc. didn't work out so well. So the key is having multiple solid guys in that bullpen so you can do that.
He also laid the ground work that Jose Peraza will be in the lineup somewhere next season. He's a major leaguer. But as of now we also have Cozart and Phillips, so I think you'll definitely see one or two of them go, more likely Cozart. Phillips is under contract through '17 and will make alot of money. I don't believe Cozart is under contract, or may be just arbitration eligible.
  #35  
Old 10-07-16, 10:24 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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I believe Colon is available. If he stays with the Mets, he may become a combination reliever/spot starter. Matt Harvey may be available.
Colon may be the only reliable starter the Mets have coming back. And he's 44 years old, the young guys keep breaking down. I can't imagine The Reds would go to market for pitching. They are watching their pennies and they have a stable of good young arms in the farm system.
  #36  
Old 10-07-16, 04:10 PM
EagleGuy EagleGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Colon may be the only reliable starter the Mets have coming back. And he's 44 years old, the young guys keep breaking down. I can't imagine The Reds would go to market for pitching. They are watching their pennies and they have a stable of good young arms in the farm system.
"Colon may be the only reliable starter the Mets have coming back."

True. I believe something like twelve of eighteen Mets' draftees this year were pitchers. Probably good for them to keep them rolling in!
  #37  
Old 10-10-16, 12:57 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleGuy View Post
"Colon may be the only reliable starter the Mets have coming back."

True. I believe something like twelve of eighteen Mets' draftees this year were pitchers. Probably good for them to keep them rolling in!
I actually meant the Reds have a stable of good young arms, but it sounds like the Mets do too.
  #38  
Old 10-11-16, 07:17 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Really good podcast on the Cincinnati Enquirer site, a program with the two guys that follow the Reds all season, C. Trent Rosecrans and Zach Buchannan. Very insightful on their thoughts on the season and how the Reds continue to rebuild this team.
Some of their thoughts....
-Bailey, DeSclafani, Strailey and Finnigan man 4 spots in the rotation. The other being a contest between Stephenson, Reed, Lamb, Adelman, Moscot, etc.
-certainly appears Iglesias and Lorenzen will anchor the bullpen. The thing I think we'll see, and some of you will be really happy about this, is that the Reds will use these guys for multiple innings, depending upon the situation. They also hope some of the names mentioned above that don't make the rotation would become multiple inning bullpen guys.
-in speaking with GM Williams, he did not rule out the club going after a starter, more of a mid level type, not a top of the line starter. Bronson Arroyo's name even came up.
-position player wise, they pretty much said the outfield is set for '17, with Duvall, Hamilton and Schebler left to right. They did say that more than likely the corner outfielders are not long term solutions.
-Decisions will need to be made on the infield. Votto at first/ Suarez at 3rd are likely to continue. The middle is the issue. A year from now, there is no doubt it will be Peraza and Herrera up the middle, but Phillips and Cozart are still in town, and Phillips makes a pile of money that make it impossible to trade him at this point of his career.
-I do not believe the catching was addressed, although we all assume a healthy Mesoraco will get the nod, with Barnhart backing him up. May become more 50-50 due to Mesoraco's health.
  #39  
Old 10-12-16, 04:14 PM
Falcon7 Falcon7 is offline
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Votto to Boston, or maybe Toronto, if they don't re-sign Encarnacion?
I don't think he much likes the limelight/pressure that would go with it.

So he will likely stay a Red.
  #40  
Old 10-13-16, 05:34 AM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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I could see Votto as a Red Sox player. And losing Papi, he fills a need for big bat and veteran presence. And they have the money, one of only 2-3 teams that could take on his contract.

I love Votto the player, but his contract is the anchor that is sinking this ship. Fingers crossed...
  #41  
Old 10-13-16, 08:17 AM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
I could see Votto as a Red Sox player. And losing Papi, he fills a need for big bat and veteran presence. And they have the money, one of only 2-3 teams that could take on his contract.

I love Votto the player, but his contract is the anchor that is sinking this ship. Fingers crossed...
Votto in a massive market with a $25 million/year salary spot light? I can see him curling up into the fetal position now.
  #42  
Old 10-13-16, 08:53 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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I'd really be surprised if Votto gets moved. It's not the $25 mill per year, it's the duration, through 2023. Teams don't want to take a guy nearing his mid-30s with that time left.
Fortunately, he's playing as well as ever right now, and barring injury, he'll be productive for the Reds throughout the contract. He had one of the best 2nd halfs of baseball for an individual player in the history of the game.
  #43  
Old 10-13-16, 09:23 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Now that said, if the Red Sox or Blue Jays or anyone would want to talk to the Reds about Votto, the Reds would have to listen. More than likely they would need to kick in some money to sweeten the pot.
  #44  
Old 10-13-16, 01:59 PM
TroyTrojan05 TroyTrojan05 is offline
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Votto would get eaten alive in a big market. He is already an odd personality. I don't think Boston or New York people would like him walking a ton and not driving in runs. I, for one, think he's vastly underrated and is a fantastic player. But he wouldn't make it in a big market. Also, he's on his back 9 as a player. He might have 2 or 3 more years of excellence in my opinion. He could add a few years on if he becomes a DH only.
  #45  
Old 10-13-16, 02:09 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Many of us thought that Paul O'Neill would get eaten up in New York, yet he was popular. You help them win, and they'll like you.
I actually think Joey's in his prime right now. He's not a speed guy or a power guy, he's just a great hitter who gets on base all the time. Those things tend to not go away. I personally don't feel anyone will ever hit .400 again, the specilization of pitchers and the improvements in defense takes too many hits away. But if anyone today could, it would be Votto.
  #46  
Old 10-13-16, 02:16 PM
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Votto would be fine wherever he plays.
  #47  
Old 10-13-16, 06:49 PM
Jhubbs77 Jhubbs77 is offline
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Votto is the best heel in baseball
  #48  
Old 10-25-16, 09:28 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Ok, this thread is getting cool. Many people seem to think the Reds are light years from contending...however, where was Cleveland at on the American League radar map beginning in '16? Not that ESPN knows alot about baseball, but they do have quite a staff of baseball "people". On April 1, they published an article where 31 of their "experts" picked their division winners and their playoff winners. 11 of the 31 took the Indians to win the division. One (Tony Biengino) took the Tribe to make the world series. Meanwhile, 27 of the 31 took the Cubs to win the NL Central, and 18 have them in the world series and 14 have them winning it.

My point is that while no one thinks the Reds have a shot at the division next year, and they probably don't, they certainly can be competitive. When I look at the Indians, I don't see a team that markedly better than the Reds. YOU CAN WIN BASEBALL GAMES WITHOUT STARS. Kluber is a stud and is a very good starting pitcher, but they have a bunch of kids who came through, the picked up Miller mid season and solidified their bullpen, otherwise, they have a pretty non-descript lineup. Lindor's going to be great, but he's 22 years old.

Thoughts?
  #49  
Old 10-25-16, 10:50 AM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Lamb had surgery, as if it matters.

The team did play over .500 in the second half I believe so all is not lost for the future.

They signed some 16 yr old phenon from the Mexican league as well..
  #50  
Old 10-27-16, 03:53 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Lamb had surgery, as if it matters.

The team did play over .500 in the second half I believe so all is not lost for the future.

They signed some 16 yr old phenon from the Mexican league as well..
Yes, Lamb had back surgery, I think he's had more than one. Playing nearly .500 gives us some hope for the future, I think we're on the right track.

Reds seems to do well with signing latin players. It's always been intriguing to me that major league clubs can sign 16 year old from a latin country, but can't sign a 16 year old American. They have to wait until the draft after their senior year in high school.
  #51  
Old 11-01-16, 02:05 PM
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From the guy I get info.........

VOtto to toronto trade is still out there and a possibility, albeit small, but still is possible.

Yanks interested Discalfini for a couple of mid level prospects...
  #52  
Old 11-01-16, 02:15 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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From the guy I get info.........

VOtto to toronto trade is still out there and a possibility, albeit small, but still is possible.

Yanks interested Discalfini for a couple of mid level prospects...
Blue Jays / Votto trade interesting, and the Reds have to listen if there is any way of getting out from under his contract. I'd be surprised that the Blue Jays would take that contract, but we'll see.
That would certainly open up first base where you could move a guy like Suarez, Duvall...or think about this, what if you could somehow get Schwarber from the Cubs and put him at first??
  #53  
Old 11-01-16, 02:34 PM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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Blue Jays / Votto trade interesting, and the Reds have to listen if there is any way of getting out from under his contract. I'd be surprised that the Blue Jays would take that contract, but we'll see.
That would certainly open up first base where you could move a guy like Suarez, Duvall...or think about this, what if you could somehow get Schwarber from the Cubs and put him at first??
Seriously. It has been very publicly stated that EVERY trade the Cubs discussed before the trade deadline involved the other team asking for Schwarber. Theo said no way. Why do you think the Reds could pry him loose? Might as well dream about getting Harper and Trout for the OF. Then we'd be really good.
  #54  
Old 11-01-16, 02:59 PM
Sig Hansen Sig Hansen is offline
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Blue Jays / Votto trade interesting, and the Reds have to listen if there is any way of getting out from under his contract. I'd be surprised that the Blue Jays would take that contract, but we'll see.
That would certainly open up first base where you could move a guy like Suarez, Duvall...or think about this, what if you could somehow get Schwarber from the Cubs and put him at first??
  #55  
Old 11-02-16, 08:13 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Seriously. It has been very publicly stated that EVERY trade the Cubs discussed before the trade deadline involved the other team asking for Schwarber. Theo said no way. Why do you think the Reds could pry him loose? Might as well dream about getting Harper and Trout for the OF. Then we'd be really good.
Ok, where is the Cubs going to play Schwarber moving forward?? Rizzo is their first baseman for awhile, he does not catch anymore and I just don't know that he can play a competent outfield. I just proposed that because if the Blue Jays are serious about Votto, the Reds need a first baseman, and Schwarber is from the Cincy area. Just sayin...
  #56  
Old 11-02-16, 08:18 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Joe Maddon certainly is a great manager, but why would he use Chapman last night in a game he didn't need him, fully knowing he'll need him tonight???
  #57  
Old 11-02-16, 09:01 AM
Sig Hansen Sig Hansen is offline
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Ok, where is the Cubs going to play Schwarber moving forward?? Rizzo is their first baseman for awhile, he does not catch anymore and I just don't know that he can play a competent outfield. I just proposed that because if the Blue Jays are serious about Votto, the Reds need a first baseman, and Schwarber is from the Cincy area. Just sayin...
Left field
  #58  
Old 11-02-16, 09:16 AM
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eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
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Joe Maddon certainly is a great manager, but why would he use Chapman last night in a game he didn't need him, fully knowing he'll need him tonight???
Because he wanted to ensure he won game 6 and he knows Chapman can pitch another 2-3 innings in game 7 if needed.
  #59  
Old 11-02-16, 09:18 AM
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Left field
Yup.
  #60  
Old 11-02-16, 11:02 AM
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There is a little scuttlebutt about them tradiing Rizzo to get Schwaber for first base....
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