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  #3001  
Old 09-07-17, 07:36 AM
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eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
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Oh good, a completely retarrded reply from 14red
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  #3002  
Old 09-07-17, 07:51 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Monclova Steve View Post
Funny. I've been a Reds' fan since around 1959. I was at the '61 Series and cheered when Frank Robinson hit a 3-run homer against the Yankees. I was at the '72 series Game 7 (stood in line that morning to get SRO tickets) and stood in CF watching Bobby Tolan misjudge 2 fly balls to cause the Reds to lose the game and the series.
I was at Fountain Square the night in '75 and '76 when the Reds won those Series'.
I won't keep going.
I will only say this.....DON'T EVER try to attack my bona fides as a Reds' fan.
So you just like to be negative?? I mean, what else is there? You have a bunch of kids 20-23 year olds, most not really major league ready, who've given us a little hope going into next season. They ARE getting major league hitters out. Now you always come back with the fact that these games don't mean anything. They most certainly do. Luis Castillo was in double A until this season, due to injuries and ineffectiveness, he got a shot and has performed way above expectations. That excites me!! The performances the last month of Sal Romano, Homer Bailey, Robert Stephenson all are positives moving forward. Those are GOOD things!!
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  #3003  
Old 09-07-17, 08:21 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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I'm sure Billy intentionally tries to not get on base just to tick you guys off. He only plays some of the best centerfield in major league baseball and...while healthy leads major league baseball in stolen bases the last 5 years.

You got a heck of a way to show appreciation for a player. In fact, I'm not sure I ever hear you compliment a Reds player for their play. It's almost like they players are paid to minimally hit .330, hit 50 home runs and 120 RBI and anything under that is grounds for criticism?
I have no idea what you're rambling on about. When did I wish out for the rest of the season?

That's because you're a moron. I've commented on how well Votto has played all year, the great year Iglesias has had, Scooter and Duvall. What part of league average do you not comprehend?
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  #3004  
Old 09-07-17, 10:54 AM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Well, some of you got your wish, Billy broke his thumb today, so he won't be the leadoff man the rest of the year.
You are incredibly immature. No one wanted Billy to get hurt. But if we criticize his OBP, or suggest that he should bat 8th, you get all butt-hurt and say we aren't fans. GROW UP!
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  #3005  
Old 09-07-17, 12:01 PM
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Pretty funny to see 14reds have a meltdown when Hamilton gets hurt. Well, you guys got your wish, he's hurt and out for the season, hope you're happy.
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  #3006  
Old 09-07-17, 02:01 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
You are incredibly immature. No one wanted Billy to get hurt. But if we criticize his OBP, or suggest that he should bat 8th, you get all butt-hurt and say we aren't fans. GROW UP!
Ba ha ha...me immature?? I try to stay positive on all things Reds, I do point out a few things here or there that may be disappointing, but you guys think Billy tries to not get on base??? He's doing what he's doing...and today, just as in the last 4 years, he's our best option as both centerfielder and leadoff man.
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  #3007  
Old 09-07-17, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Ba ha ha...me immature?? I try to stay positive on all things Reds, I do point out a few things here or there that may be disappointing, but you guys think Billy tries to not get on base??? He's doing what he's doing...and today, just as in the last 4 years, he's our best option as both centerfielder and leadoff man.
Why do you keep asking this moronic question? Are you mentally handicapped, I'm not even kidding, please answer.
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  #3008  
Old 09-07-17, 04:33 PM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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jesus
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  #3009  
Old 09-11-17, 10:47 AM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Ba ha ha...me immature?? I try to stay positive on all things Reds, I do point out a few things here or there that may be disappointing, but you guys think Billy tries to not get on base??? He's doing what he's doing...and today, just as in the last 4 years, he's our best option as both centerfielder and leadoff man.
Immature? YES. Billy gets hurt and your reaction is "I hope you guys are happy". That is how a 12 year old girl reacts.

No one has ever said "Billy isn't trying to get on base". He just isn't good at it.

He is our best option as a CF. As I've told you a thousand times, he is not our best option at leadoff. He is near the bottom of the league in OBP. The fact that you (and Price) continue to think he is a leadoff hitter proves how little you understand baseball. I'd rather have Votto on base 45% of the time instead of Billy "out" and back in the dugout 71% of the time.
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  #3010  
Old 09-11-17, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
Immature? YES. Billy gets hurt and your reaction is "I hope you guys are happy". That is how a 12 year old girl reacts.

No one has ever said "Billy isn't trying to get on base". He just isn't good at it.

He is our best option as a CF. As I've told you a thousand times, he is not our best option at leadoff. He is near the bottom of the league in OBP. The fact that you (and Price) continue to think he is a leadoff hitter proves how little you understand baseball. I'd rather have Votto on base 45% of the time instead of Billy "out" and back in the dugout 71% of the time.
This post is insulting to 12 yo girls everywhere.
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  #3011  
Old 09-11-17, 12:47 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
Immature? YES. Billy gets hurt and your reaction is "I hope you guys are happy". That is how a 12 year old girl reacts.

No one has ever said "Billy isn't trying to get on base". He just isn't good at it.

He is our best option as a CF. As I've told you a thousand times, he is not our best option at leadoff. He is near the bottom of the league in OBP. The fact that you (and Price) continue to think he is a leadoff hitter proves how little you understand baseball. I'd rather have Votto on base 45% of the time instead of Billy "out" and back in the dugout 71% of the time.
If Votto his 10-12 home runs this year, then yes, bat him leadoff. But he's too good at driving the ball and driving runs in to waste him in the leadoff spot - after the pitcher. Also remember, the leadoff batter is only guaranteed to lead off once...in the first inning.
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  #3012  
Old 09-11-17, 02:44 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
If Votto his 10-12 home runs this year, then yes, bat him leadoff. But he's too good at driving the ball and driving runs in to waste him in the leadoff spot - after the pitcher. Also remember, the leadoff batter is only guaranteed to lead off once...in the first inning.
The lead off batter will get about 50 AB more per year than the 3 hitter. Votto scores a run per 5 AB. Why wouldn't you want 10 more runs a year?
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  #3013  
Old 09-11-17, 02:52 PM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
If Votto his 10-12 home runs this year, then yes, bat him leadoff. But he's too good at driving the ball and driving runs in to waste him in the leadoff spot - after the pitcher. Also remember, the leadoff batter is only guaranteed to lead off once...in the first inning.
So you are saying he is too good to bat leadoff? You think he should have fewer ABs per year? DUMB and STUBBORN. What a combination.

Any chance you are overweight and an alcoholic too? Is your last name Blutarski?
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  #3014  
Old 09-11-17, 04:40 PM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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Settle down. This entire argument about wether Hamilton or Votto should bat in the leadoff spot is ridiculous.
Either choice is nothing more than an illustration of the fact that the Reds lack a true leadoff hitter. Yes, SOMEONE has to hit there, but putting either player there causes more problems than it solves.
For my money, Zack Cozart is the best choice, with his .397 OBP. Does he steal bases? No, but he's an excellent baserunner. In the #2 spot, I'd put Suarez?Gennett, and keep Votto 3rd to drive in runs.

Not to compare, but the Reds had an excellent leadoff hitter for years who didn't steal a ton of bases but -- like Cozart -- was an outstanding baserunner and had a career OBP of .375. I think his last name was Rose.

Sorry, but Billy's .299 won't cut it.
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  #3015  
Old 09-12-17, 02:14 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Monclova Steve View Post
Settle down. This entire argument about wether Hamilton or Votto should bat in the leadoff spot is ridiculous.
Either choice is nothing more than an illustration of the fact that the Reds lack a true leadoff hitter. Yes, SOMEONE has to hit there, but putting either player there causes more problems than it solves.
For my money, Zack Cozart is the best choice, with his .397 OBP. Does he steal bases? No, but he's an excellent baserunner. In the #2 spot, I'd put Suarez?Gennett, and keep Votto 3rd to drive in runs.

Not to compare, but the Reds had an excellent leadoff hitter for years who didn't steal a ton of bases but -- like Cozart -- was an outstanding baserunner and had a career OBP of .375. I think his last name was Rose.

Sorry, but Billy's .299 won't cut it.
If Cozart was 25, and hit the way he has the last two years and wasn't hurt, I'd buy that a little. Cozart take no pitches. He's probably got as much run from hitting in from of Joey that anyone could possibly get. Remember just a few years ago when he was hitting .220. And you are correct, we don't have a true leadoff hitter, which is why I'm still ok with Billy there. Who else you going put there...and it makes 0 sense putting your best hitter there.
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  #3016  
Old 09-12-17, 03:32 PM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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Got it. Why would you want your best hitter to bat leadoff and get 50 ABs more per year? Makes no sense. Keep your worst hitter there, so HE gets the most plate appearances. Solid thinking.
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  #3017  
Old 09-12-17, 05:17 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Got it. Why would you want your best hitter to bat leadoff and get 50 ABs more per year? Makes no sense. Keep your worst hitter there, so HE gets the most plate appearances. Solid thinking.
50 more AB would equate to another 3 HR and 10 Runs scored.
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  #3018  
Old 09-13-17, 08:55 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Got it. Why would you want your best hitter to bat leadoff and get 50 ABs more per year? Makes no sense. Keep your worst hitter there, so HE gets the most plate appearances. Solid thinking.
That's a little too simplistic. The reason you bat Votto 3rd is so you get maximum affect with him in the lineup. Please don't tell me you don't think Cozart and Duvall has not benefited by hitting before or after Votto. You hit Joey in the leadoff spot, after the first inning he hits after the pitcher, mostly an automatic out.

Again, and again...Billy's not the ideal leadoff hitter by his metrics, but he's all we got right now. Jesse Winker led off last night, look for him to get a good shot at being the everyday righfielder and leadoff man in '18. He's always had a high on base% in the minor leagues.
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  #3019  
Old 09-13-17, 11:05 AM
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I can support Winker in RF and lead-off. He has .398 OBP career in minors and .396 this year in limited playing time.

But only if Schebler plays CF and Duvall plays LF. Billy can pinch run and be defensive late-inning replacement. We need our offensive players to get the ABs. Schebler will be an average defensive CF.
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  #3020  
Old 09-13-17, 11:13 AM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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Credit where credit is due, 14Red. Yes, I can be a harsh critic, but I also believe in giving great praise when it's due.
Excellent post. You have made very reasonable arguments concerning the leadoff spot. As I said before, NO ONE on the Reds is an ideal leadoff hitter.
I'm glad to see you acknowledge BH's faults. You are also correct that he is one of the flawed options the Reds have to bat 1st in the lineup. I agree that it's a good move by the Reds to take a look at Winker for an extended period of time to see if he could also be an option there.
I could not agree more with your argument about the downside of Votto hitting 1st in the order. Those that are only focusing on the fact that he would get more AB's are missing the rest of the picture concerning the benefits of his batting in the #3 spot.
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  #3021  
Old 09-13-17, 01:15 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
I can support Winker in RF and lead-off. He has .398 OBP career in minors and .396 this year in limited playing time.

But only if Schebler plays CF and Duvall plays LF. Billy can pinch run and be defensive late-inning replacement. We need our offensive players to get the ABs. Schebler will be an average defensive CF.
I laid out this exact scenario in April.
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  #3022  
Old 09-13-17, 01:16 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by Monclova Steve View Post
Credit where credit is due, 14Red. Yes, I can be a harsh critic, but I also believe in giving great praise when it's due.
Excellent post. You have made very reasonable arguments concerning the leadoff spot. As I said before, NO ONE on the Reds is an ideal leadoff hitter.
I'm glad to see you acknowledge BH's faults. You are also correct that he is one of the flawed options the Reds have to bat 1st in the lineup. I agree that it's a good move by the Reds to take a look at Winker for an extended period of time to see if he could also be an option there.
I could not agree more with your argument about the downside of Votto hitting 1st in the order. Those that are only focusing on the fact that he would get more AB's are missing the rest of the picture concerning the benefits of his batting in the #3 spot.
None of this fixes the real problem though.... Starting pitching.
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  #3023  
Old 09-13-17, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
I laid out this exact scenario in April.
I think if Schebler didn't get off to such a great start, that could have happened. The original plan was to have Scooter be the 4th outfielder. Having Winker up at the start of the season, and only getting a handful of at bats per week would not make sense.

and you are correct Indiandad, the real issue is starting pitching. Offensively, defensively, if we can duplicate this next season AND get good starting pitching, you've got yourself a contender.
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  #3024  
Old 09-13-17, 02:30 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
I can support Winker in RF and lead-off. He has .398 OBP career in minors and .396 this year in limited playing time.

But only if Schebler plays CF and Duvall plays LF. Billy can pinch run and be defensive late-inning replacement. We need our offensive players to get the ABs. Schebler will be an average defensive CF.
Issue is Billy's going to get a nice bump in pay, so you're advocating paying him as a starter, and using him as a sub. I see a senario where you have Winker leadoff in right, and Billy hit's 8th or 9th in center. Schebler/ Duval may be good trade bait.
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  #3025  
Old 09-13-17, 03:26 PM
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None of this fixes the real problem though.... Starting pitching.
Great post. Nobody else thought of that.
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  #3026  
Old 09-13-17, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Issue is Billy's going to get a nice bump in pay, so you're advocating paying him as a starter, and using him as a sub. I see a senario where you have Winker leadoff in right, and Billy hit's 8th or 9th in center. Schebler/ Duval may be good trade bait.
When did I advocate a pay increase for Billy? Answer: Never.
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  #3027  
Old 09-13-17, 03:28 PM
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Yeah, no one realized the pitching sucks on this team.
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  #3028  
Old 09-13-17, 07:10 PM
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Yeah, no one realized the pitching sucks on this team.
What would you do to fix it if you were GM?
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  #3029  
Old 09-14-17, 07:51 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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What would you do to fix it if you were GM?
Take a good, hard look at the pitching coaching at all levels, first of all.
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  #3030  
Old 09-14-17, 08:31 AM
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Oh good, a completely retarrded reply from 14red
You were expecting something else?
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