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  #151  
Old 12-30-14, 07:04 PM
Mackinbiner Mackinbiner is offline
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The 3 second (in the lane) rule, does the count start even before the ball is in-bounded when the offensive team is throwing the ball in-bounds under their own basket?
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  #152  
Old 12-30-14, 09:12 PM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackinbiner View Post
The 3 second (in the lane) rule, does the count start even before the ball is in-bounded when the offensive team is throwing the ball in-bounds under their own basket?
Nope. One of the most misunderstood rules in the game. The three-second restriction does not apply until control has been established inbounds in the frontcourt. Moreover, the restriction ends when a try for goal goes in the air and does not apply again until a team has established control in its frontcourt.
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  #153  
Old 12-30-14, 09:23 PM
Mackinbiner Mackinbiner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zebrastripes View Post
Nope. One of the most misunderstood rules in the game. The three-second restriction does not apply until control has been established inbounds in the frontcourt. Moreover, the restriction ends when a try for goal goes in the air and does not apply again until a team has established control in its frontcourt.
Thank you. Well explained.
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  #154  
Old 01-05-15, 09:22 AM
eagles73 eagles73 is offline
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Team A is fouled on a shot and is given 2 free throws. On the first attempt the free throw is missed and Team B player grabs the ball and dribbles down court. Team A player who was in the back court gives chase while all 3 refs stand and watch. Team B players shoots the layup while Team A player tries to block. The nearest official blows whistle indicating a foul on Team A player and play stops. What should the call be?
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  #155  
Old 01-05-15, 09:35 AM
thePITman thePITman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagles73 View Post
Team A is fouled on a shot and is given 2 free throws. On the first attempt the free throw is missed and Team B player grabs the ball and dribbles down court. Team A player who was in the back court gives chase while all 3 refs stand and watch. Team B players shoots the layup while Team A player tries to block. The nearest official blows whistle indicating a foul on Team A player and play stops. What should the call be?
I'd think the call would have been for the referees to be blowing their whistles repeatedly so as to keep the players from believing the ball was in play.
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  #156  
Old 01-05-15, 09:41 AM
thePITman thePITman is offline
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I was just informed of this rule by a friend who is a basketball referee two nights ago, and it changes everything I've ever known or been taught about basketball!

A player who is pivoting (not dribbling) can pick up his pivot foot and balance on the second foot as long as needed, so long as he has released the ball before his pivot foot touches the ground. I've always thought that a ballhandler can never pick up his pivot foot, or else it is a travel, so this blew my mind! But I guess it kind of makes sense given the number of steps allowed for a layup.

My referee friend had a player pick up his dribble, pivot, and then called a travel when the player picked up his pivot foot before releasing the ball. A coach corrected him; so when he got home, my friend checked the rulebook, and sure enough, the coach was right!
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  #157  
Old 01-05-15, 10:07 AM
eagles73 eagles73 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thePITman View Post
I'd think the call would have been for the referees to be blowing their whistles repeatedly so as to keep the players from believing the ball was in play.
They did not blow the whistle until Team B player shot the layup and was fouled by Team A player. This happened in a varsity boys game that had league championship implications. After talking to several officials, one of whom emailed the state interpreter and we had 3 different interpretations.

The call at the game was this, Team B was awarded the basket, Team A player the foul, Team B player the 1 free throw during dead ball. Back to the other end of the court to shoot Team A's last free throw with action resuming on the make or miss! I was beside myself, I asked a guy next to me who had his license and he said he would have to check the book. Thats when all 3 different interpretations started. Some said the basket or the foul should not have been handed to Team A since the ball was not live. Some said the ruling by the refs in the contest were correct. Another said the only thing wrong with how they handled it was the order of the free throws! lol

I said, only an official can foul up a play and reward a team! I now coach varsity, I might teach my kids to always rebound the miss of a 2 shot foul and take off with it, you might have this happen again! lol
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  #158  
Old 01-05-15, 10:44 AM
thePITman thePITman is offline
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That is just bizarre. As a referee you blow your whistle, and if the player keeps ignoring the whistle, you call a technical foul. This happened in a state championship a few years ago to Trey Burke, I believe.
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  #159  
Old 01-05-15, 11:37 AM
eagles73 eagles73 is offline
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pitman, the 3 refs were bewildered, I dont know if they thought it was a 1 and the bonus, but they stood there, then 1 decided he better blow his whistle to stop play. If I hadnt of seen it with my one 2 eyes I wouldnt have believed it! lol And like I said, this wasnt a biddy ball or jr high game, this was a varsity boys game. It was at the end of the season and the winner would have a 1 game lead in the league. Lucky for us we still won the ball game.
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  #160  
Old 01-05-15, 11:59 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagles73 View Post
Team A is fouled on a shot and is given 2 free throws. On the first attempt the free throw is missed and Team B player grabs the ball and dribbles down court. Team A player who was in the back court gives chase while all 3 refs stand and watch. Team B players shoots the layup while Team A player tries to block. The nearest official blows whistle indicating a foul on Team A player and play stops. What should the call be?

Not sure what really happened here because your first post says that "all 3 refs stand and watch". Then the nearest official blows his whistle calling a foul..... If he did this, the official would be 56 feet from the basket as he would have been the trail official on the foul shot... (remember, according to the original description, they just stood and watched) i seriously doubt an official would have blown his whistle from that far away and called a foul.

Now what probably did happen was everyone, including the officials, participated in this play after the first foul shot and what happened is what you describe below.....



Quote:
Originally Posted by eagles73 View Post
They did not blow the whistle until Team B player shot the layup and was fouled by Team A player. This happened in a varsity boys game that had league championship implications. After talking to several officials, one of whom emailed the state interpreter and we had 3 different interpretations.

The call at the game was this, Team B was awarded the basket, Team A player the foul, Team B player the 1 free throw during dead ball. Back to the other end of the court to shoot Team A's last free throw with action resuming on the make or miss! I was beside myself, I asked a guy next to me who had his license and he said he would have to check the book. Thats when all 3 different interpretations started. Some said the basket or the foul should not have been handed to Team A since the ball was not live. Some said the ruling by the refs in the contest were correct. Another said the only thing wrong with how they handled it was the order of the free throws! lol

I said, only an official can foul up a play and reward a team! I now coach varsity, I might teach my kids to always rebound the miss of a 2 shot foul and take off with it, you might have this happen again! lol
If it happened as described here, this falls under Rule 2-10, Correctable Errors. A merited free throw was not awarded, and the error was recognized before the ball became live after the first dead ball after the error occurred (the foul by A on the shot).

The timeline of this play is by rule as follows.....

- Count the basket by B and charge the player from team A with a personal foul.

- Go back to the other end of the floor and award team a the free throw that they were entitled to with no players along the lane.

- Return to B's basket and shoot the free throw B is entitled to for the foul by A. Players will be along the lane as the point of interruption is the foul by team A.

This timeline is set forth by rule because there was a change of possession (B's rebound of the missed free-throw) and is found under Rule 2-10-1 and the ruling in Case Book 2-10-6 Situation B
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  #161  
Old 01-05-15, 12:03 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagles73 View Post
pitman, the 3 refs were bewildered, I dont know if they thought it was a 1 and the bonus, but they stood there, then 1 decided he better blow his whistle to stop play. If I hadnt of seen it with my one 2 eyes I wouldnt have believed it! lol And like I said, this wasnt a biddy ball or jr high game, this was a varsity boys game. It was at the end of the season and the winner would have a 1 game lead in the league. Lucky for us we still won the ball game.
Did he blow his whistle to stop play or did he officiate the play as it being live call a foul?

Big difference here.....
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  #162  
Old 01-05-15, 12:06 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thePITman View Post
I was just informed of this rule by a friend who is a basketball referee two nights ago, and it changes everything I've ever known or been taught about basketball!

A player who is pivoting (not dribbling) can pick up his pivot foot and balance on the second foot as long as needed, so long as he has released the ball before his pivot foot touches the ground. I've always thought that a ballhandler can never pick up his pivot foot, or else it is a travel, so this blew my mind! But I guess it kind of makes sense given the number of steps allowed for a layup.

My referee friend had a player pick up his dribble, pivot, and then called a travel when the player picked up his pivot foot before releasing the ball. A coach corrected him; so when he got home, my friend checked the rulebook, and sure enough, the coach was right!
This is one of those "bar bet" rules..... People hear "picked up his pivot foot" and assume travel immediately.

You could have a cheap evening at the local watering hole with this one...
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  #163  
Old 01-05-15, 12:10 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by eagles73 View Post
I now coach varsity, I might teach my kids to always rebound the miss of a 2 shot foul and take off with it, you might have this happen again! lol
Would not recommend teaching this as you are teaching a player to knowingly prevent the officials from making the ball live (giving the ball to the free throw shooter makes the ball live) and this act is punishable by assessing a technical foul. Might get a warning the first time, but will certainly get whacked if it happens again.
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  #164  
Old 01-05-15, 12:51 PM
eagles73 eagles73 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Did he blow his whistle to stop play or did he officiate the play as it being live call a foul?

Big difference here.....
The only ref who moved was the one at half court. The other 2 just stood, the 3rd waited until the kid dribbled by him and took maybe 3 or 4 steps then blew the whistle on the contact. We watched the replay on the video a bunch of times so it wasnt just the live version. I am telling you the refs didnt chase the ball, they might have turned and took a step, but they did not follow. The one who did, stood until the kid dribbled by him.


I am kidding about teaching my kids to do that! lol
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  #165  
Old 01-05-15, 01:12 PM
thePITman thePITman is offline
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AllSports, had all 3 referees just stood and watched the defender score the bucket, would the bucket have NOT counted? In other words, only because the referee called a foul (for some reason) did the points count?
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  #166  
Old 01-05-15, 01:46 PM
eagles73 eagles73 is offline
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pit, I think the back ref, the guy at half court was unsure of how many free throws and when the kid got to his level he thought crap I better turn and go. I still cant believe that when they got together and figured out it should have been 2 shots that the ball was dead and no bucket other than the next free throw can occur! I believe how they interpreted it is the rule, but that isnt common sense, so thats why its a rule~! lol
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  #167  
Old 01-05-15, 02:04 PM
thePITman thePITman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagles73 View Post
pit, I think the back ref, the guy at half court was unsure of how many free throws and when the kid got to his level he thought crap I better turn and go.
I'm not a ref, so I'm not 100% sure of the rotation. But if my memory serves me correctly...

Ref A calls the foul and is the one that walks over and signals it to the scorers' table. Ref A stays further back behind the free throw line on the near side (most likely "the back ref, the guy at half court" as you described).
Ref B is on the opposite side of the court, even with the free throw line counting seconds for the FT shooter.
Ref C is under the hoop.

So if the "furthest back" referee was the one that called the bogus foul after the rebound, I'm led to believe he was the same referee that called the original foul (Ref A), so he should have known how many FTs the shooter was awarded (especially the case for a 2-shot foul). This all is just very interesting and bizarre. Haha!

In addition, the referee under the hoop (Ref C, the one telling all the players how many shots there were) should have immediately blown his whistle when the defender rebounded the ball and started dribbling away. So 2 of the 3 refs should have had some sort of clue. As for Ref B, he's just there flexing his forearms counting seconds. He would be the only one I would think has any excuse.

Granted, the question you initially posed was related to "What happens after the referees make the mistake." I'm just having some fun analyzing how the mistake happened.

Last edited by thePITman; 01-05-15 at 02:19 PM.
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  #168  
Old 01-05-15, 03:27 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thePITman View Post
AllSports, had all 3 referees just stood and watched the defender score the bucket, would the bucket have NOT counted? In other words, only because the referee called a foul (for some reason) did the points count?
Once the official whistled the play for a foul, any chance of saving this from having to apply rule 2-10 is out the window. If a foul is called, everything must stand and the method I noted above must be used to correct the error.

If they just stood there with a stupid look on their faces (many think that's standard for us ) then you would think that at some point sanity would kick in and order would be restored by resuming play with the 2nd FT.
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  #169  
Old 01-05-15, 06:50 PM
Look Ma No Hands Look Ma No Hands is offline
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I have seen the converse occur.

The refs issue a 1-and-1 foul. For some reason, everyone thinks it was a shooting foul as the foul occurred just before the shot.
The player misses the front end. An offensive player steps in and grabs the offensive rebound while all other players stand and watch. He literally looks around and then shoots in a 2 point FG and runs down the floor by himself.

Last edited by AllSports12; 01-05-15 at 07:46 PM.
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  #170  
Old 01-06-15, 08:45 AM
thePITman thePITman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Look Ma No Hands View Post
The refs issue a 1-and-1 foul. For some reason, everyone thinks it was a shooting foul as the foul occurred just before the shot.
The player misses the front end. An offensive player steps in and grabs the offensive rebound while all other players stand and watch. He literally looks around and then shoots in a 2 point FG and runs down the floor by himself.
This exact thing happened in the final seconds of a district championship maybe 5 years ago. I believe it was a tie game when he missed the FT, but the bucket gave them the win. The other team missed a 3 at the buzzer to lose.
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  #171  
Old 01-06-15, 11:47 PM
cshs81 cshs81 is offline
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The "correctable error" rule is difficult for some to swallow. No question.

Scenario:

Team A is shooting what should be two FTs. Instead the table tells the officials it's the bonus. First shot is missed. Shooting team rebounds and scores a bucket. While Team B is gathering the ball to take it out of bounds the horn blows.

Table says "Oops. That should have been two shots."

By rule, the basket by A counts AND they get to to shoot their second FT.

Imagine explaining that one to a coach in a tight game when he's the visiting team.
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  #172  
Old 01-07-15, 08:00 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cshs81 View Post
The "correctable error" rule is difficult for some to swallow. No question.
Very true for a couple of reasons...

First, there are 17 separate case situations in our Case Book that detail what the error was and whether or not it is correctable. By far the most detailed out of all our rules and even then, it's not an all-encompassing list.

Next, these happen so infrequently that it's tough to grasp. Like anything else, repetition of a task makes the task easier. If you are used to applying a rule, it becomes easier when you have to apply said rule the next time......

Quote:
Originally Posted by cshs81 View Post

Scenario:

Team A is shooting what should be two FTs. Instead the table tells the officials it's the bonus. First shot is missed. Shooting team rebounds and scores a bucket. While Team B is gathering the ball to take it out of bounds the horn blows.

Table says "Oops. That should have been two shots."

By rule, the basket by A counts AND they get to to shoot their second FT.

Imagine explaining that one to a coach in a tight game when he's the visiting team.
If one is going to happen, that's the one to have as the throws were merited, the teams were both battling for the ball. It's on the visiting team for not getting the rebound.

The one not to have is where a team is entitled to a free throw(s), doesn't get one(s) and the error is realized outside the time frame prescribed by rule...

not good......
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  #173  
Old 01-07-15, 11:59 AM
cshs81 cshs81 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post

The one not to have is where a team is entitled to a free throw(s), doesn't get one(s) and the error is realized outside the time frame prescribed by rule...

not good......
Worst one would be foul on B that should have been a bonus. A takes the ball out , scores a bucket and as the ball is going through the net the officials get the call saying "should have been the bonus."

Line him up and shoot. If he makes both it's a 4 point trip.
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  #174  
Old 01-07-15, 12:29 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cshs81 View Post
Worst one would be foul on B that should have been a bonus. A takes the ball out , scores a bucket and as the ball is going through the net the officials get the call saying "should have been the bonus."

Line him up and shoot. If he makes both it's a 4 point trip.
Hope we can blame it on the table
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  #175  
Old 01-07-15, 03:20 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Offensive player 1 sets a pick on defensive player 1. Pass comes into offensive player 2 near the basket. Defensive player 1 tries to push his way through offensive player 1 to block the shot of offensive player 2. The shot goes in and the defense is called for a foul for pushing offensive player 1 (picker). Just want to add that the picker was pushed into the shooter and hit him just as he was coming down from the shot.

The offense is already in double bonus. What is the call for freethrows?

1 FT for the shooter?
2 FTs for the shooter?
1 FT for the picker?
2 FTs for the picker?
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  #176  
Old 01-07-15, 04:23 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
Offensive player 1 sets a pick on defensive player 1. Pass comes into offensive player 2 near the basket. Defensive player 1 tries to push his way through offensive player 1 to block the shot of offensive player 2. The shot goes in and the defense is called for a foul for pushing offensive player 1 (picker). Just want to add that the picker was pushed into the shooter and hit him just as he was coming down from the shot.

The offense is already in double bonus. What is the call for freethrows?

1 FT for the shooter?
2 FTs for the shooter?
1 FT for the picker?
2 FTs for the picker?
In official's speak..... Offense = A Defense = B

B1 pushes A1 into A2 while A2 is shooting, so continuous motion applies here...

Common foul on B1 for the push against A1
Count the basket by A2
Send A1 to the line to shoot the double bonus

The contact between A1 and A2 because of the push by B1 means nothing.....
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  #177  
Old 01-11-15, 09:42 AM
D4fan D4fan is offline
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Over and back

A team inbounds the ball on their end of the court. The player receiving the ball straddles the half court line with his feet and catches the ball on his teams side of the court. After coming to a complete stop and pausing a few seconds, with one foot still in front court and other in back but ball clearly on his teams side, he then sweeps arms in circular motion taking ball back across half court line as he makes move to accelerate past defender. Does this not constitute an over and back as the ball and one foot of the athlete were in the front court after receiving the pass?
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  #178  
Old 01-11-15, 11:25 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by D4fan View Post
A team inbounds the ball on their end of the court. The player receiving the ball straddles the half court line with his feet and catches the ball on his teams side of the court. After coming to a complete stop and pausing a few seconds, with one foot still in front court and other in back but ball clearly on his teams side, he then sweeps arms in circular motion taking ball back across half court line as he makes move to accelerate past defender. Does this not constitute an over and back as the ball and one foot of the athlete were in the front court after receiving the pass?
Not a back court violation on a throw in or any other time.... the location of the ball in relation to the division line while being held is irrelevant.

On a throw-in, the division line does not exist until player and team control is established in the front court. If he caught the ball straddling the line, the ball is by definition in the back court. If he raises the foot that was touching the back court, the player and ball now have front court status. It would then be a violation if he returned that foot to the floor in the back court.
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  #179  
Old 01-20-15, 01:19 AM
Wadz06 Wadz06 is offline
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Are freshman teams allowed to played JV teams? Is it sanctioned
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  #180  
Old 01-20-15, 07:53 AM
thePITman thePITman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wadz06 View Post
Are freshman teams allowed to played JV teams? Is it sanctioned
You can just have a JV team made completely of Freshmen. Problem solved.
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